PDA

View Full Version : The 3D | Edge Bevel, Shift, Inset, Chamfer | Thread



probiner
01-24-2012, 10:23 PM
What's missing? What's not working? What are the conceptual solutions that LW should develop? What are the third party solutions?
Even though Modeler is not exactly on a feature development streak, I thought there could be an outline for these modeling practices in one thread, because again, many times you see what you want to do, but seems tools don't aid, they don't output the way you want or follow the concepts you need.

I'll start by adressing something somewhat simple, but can influence greatly further discussions: Edge Bevel.
Beyond the buggyness I want to point out on how Edge Bevel tools in general work and how they optionally could go beyond.


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/animatics/Lightwave/Bevel-SampleB.png
So. Normally the new edges are made by distancing them from the original edge, in this case 100mm. But the distance between the new edges (strip width) is 141mm. So you input the size of 2 equal sides of an isosceles triangle and the strip with is the different side size. This is a problem because:
1- You don't input the strip width.
2- Even if you try to solve it with math (100m *√2 =141mm for a 90º angle) and input it, if the angle is not constant along the edge, this fix doesn't work. \/


In "Constant Width" examples you can see how it would be.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/animatics/Lightwave/Bevel-WidthD.png

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/animatics/Lightwave/Oblique-Bevel.png

It is important to have tools that don't work only in one way (Multishift is a good example). So an Edge Bevel where you could optionally change the Distance Input from Orginal Edge Distance to Strip Width would go around many situations the current bevel operations can't cope with, at all.


Wedgebevel+ (http://lightwave.mindnever.org/wedgebevel/) shows other mechanisms and input options that would be nice to consider, even if it does not work with edge selection or it doesn't produce a continuous Face Loop, like the Edge Bevel Tool does.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/animatics/Lightwave/wedgebevel.png


Attached an LWO with the "Constant Width" examples. I'll use them for other subjects like Shift, Inset and Chamfer later on the thread

Fire away your issues and solutions. It's about having options that fit problems.

Cheers

JeffrySG
01-24-2012, 10:35 PM
It might be good to post the links to those plugins/videos that did some amazing rounding / loop inserts. I think it might have been for C4D. Those would be great to get into LW one day!

probiner
01-24-2012, 11:15 PM
Will do Jeffry or if others do it's all good. You know we have been talking about these before and there are some references already.
I haven't done it because I only focused on Edge Bevel now. So when I post about Chamfer I'll repost some of those links again.
But you guys are free to point fingers at good solutions the way you want, of course =)

Cheers

probiner
05-20-2012, 06:08 AM
Here is a video comparing some procedures to Inflate a mesh. Note especially the Multishift>Contour which allows to make an Offset of the geometry without changing it's polygon normals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlfLwqJkE90 (it can be boring, summary below \/)

There is though a bug with Multishift, if you make some cuts in a mesh and use Multishift>Shift>Contour the new cuts will start to slide randomly, some times to a points to reap the mesh apart to an extreme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlfLwqJkE90&t=9m48s).

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/animatics/Lightwave/Ripped.png

Basicaly it's the only "Offset" tool in modeler and it's bugged in many situations.
I don't know if the problem is LWO, Modeler, the Tools or all of them...


Anyway a summary:

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/animatics/Lightwave/Inflate-Object.png

Point Normal Move
Steep corners are fades and flat areas bulged out. It results in a puffier shape
I think it's useful for to inflate in a smoothing/rounding way.

Smooth Scale | Move Plus (right mouse button) | Multishift (shift: Point Normals)
Will offset the vertices along their normal with a fixed distance.
It's useful to me for projecting operations that require a cage that will give the orientation; such as baking Texture Maps in xNormal.

Multishift (shift: Contour)
Will Offset the polygons along their normals with a fixed distance.
The only way I know to keep the polygons normals intact when inflating a mesh. A nice way to thicken a geometry.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/animatics/Lightwave/Offset-C.png


Hopefully this helps to differentiate the tools, in what they can accomplish and also what needs to be fixed. File attached for the more curious \/

Cheers

Kuzey
05-20-2012, 08:06 AM
Just curious, but did Core have these issues?

Maybe a constrain shape/edge/angle option to force Modeler not to deform objects when using these tools??

Although..a fix would be better than another option :)

Kuzey

probiner
05-20-2012, 11:33 AM
Although..a fix would be better than another option :)
Exaclty, Multishift is quite nice, both Shift and Inset Contours are quite unique in LW. But they have their issues and if addressed, it would be... COOLL... to say the least.


Just curious, but did Core have these issues?

Sorry, I was not part of CORE's country club :D Have no idea.

But If you ask me "Smooth Scale" and Point Normal Move" got their names swapped :/ Smooth Scale moves vertices on their normals with the same value, while, Point Normal Move smooths out sharp corners and rounds sutff. :foreheads

Cheers

Kuzey
05-21-2012, 01:12 PM
Sorry, I was not part of CORE's country club :D Have no idea.

Cheers

That makes two of us :D

I remember one or two Core members said they replaced Modeler with Core for their modelling needs.

That would mean that a) these tools were a straight port from LW to Core...having the same issues etc. or b) they were a compete rewrite & so fixed the underlying problems.

If b) is true, then we might find these updated tools in LW12. Unless there's an issue getting new code into old architecture etc.

btw..I would so love to see LW handle micro movements/extrusions etc. better. Modeler's tools can't move in increments smaller than 1mm to 3mm within the viewport.

Anyway...keep doing what you're doing..it's fascinating stuff!

:thumbsup:

Kuzey

Kuzey
05-22-2012, 01:18 PM
The rotation system can do with a fix as well..which can't do .5 degree increments within the view ports. I would have to rotate an object close to where I want it, then undo, then open numeric panel and manually input the correct angle..say 29.5 degrees and apply again.

Kuzey

erikals
05-24-2012, 07:38 AM
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/animatics/Lightwave/Ripped.png

hm, not sure, works here, unless i skipped something...
http://youtu.be/TH5Cxa8vuBQ

 

erikals
05-24-2012, 07:43 AM
Wanted! >

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/animatics/Lightwave/Oblique-Bevel.png

probiner
05-24-2012, 12:05 PM
Increments
Totally agree with you on this. LW only allows you to do only 1º or 15º angle Increments on the viewport and objects.

Blender and Wings3D allow you to with a combination of Control, Shift and Alt keys to get many other increments options while the normal mouse control used 2 decimal places:
- 0.1º, 1º, 5º, 10º, 360º or 0.1, 0.25, 1, 10 etc..
- Precision Mode where your mouse input will be slowed down.
- Same for for operations like Size, Move, Extrude, and so on!.

So you can fine tune with less "Apply" on a numeric Input Panel and you make the Perspective View more useful again.

If NT is serious about Modeling in LW12: Enough of Quad View and Numeric Panel for modeling. I mean, many times you need them of course, it's just, they shouldn't be the base of modeling in 2012.



http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/animatics/Lightwave/Ripped.png

hm, not sure, works here, unless i skipped something...
http://youtu.be/TH5Cxa8vuBQ

you didn't watch the video right :P
Oh so you want reproduction steps hun? :hey:

- Make a 8 by 8 Torus.
- Twist it on the Z axis something like 15º just to make a little bit non-planar, but not much.
- Make the 4 Cuts, by selecting the Loops and using the Connect command (L).
- Size everything up 200% (sizing apparently makes the effect stronger)
- Bevel the opening polygon in. Invert Selection and Multishift (shift:Countour)
- Rage :)

Even if you don't apparently see it, if you use negative values, you will see the new cuts making a Zig-Zag shape. That's vertices sliding, but only mildly. When they are extremely displaced it's them sliding a whole lot.

I can make the same thing in Wings3D with the "Extrude" operation, that it will Offset polygons on their normals without any problem.

In yellow, the new cuts. In red the chosen unselected polygon.http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/animatics/Lightwave/Multishift-Fail2.png

Anyway I attached a LWO like the image:

Layer 1 - objects --- Layer 2 - edited --- Layer 3 - Multishift --- Layer 4 - Wings3D

This completly breaks the tool and I don't see it how to regenerate (changed point order, fixed normals, tripled it and put it back to quads).


Wanted! >

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/animatics/Lightwave/Oblique-Bevel.png
I'll carry on with that one when I talk about Solid Chamfering Edges. Because the principle about the distancing from the original edges is the same in Solid Chamfer and Edge Bevel.

Cheers

EDIT: updated the example. Apparently when I reopened the LWO the cube sample behaved fine.

erikals
05-24-2012, 02:57 PM
 
ah,... yeah, was a bit fast there... raging bug indeed...! http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/aiwebs_001.gif http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/aiwebs_029.gif
(and no way to fix it...!)

edit > just Fogbugzed it.
 

Snosrap
05-24-2012, 10:09 PM
Just curious, but did Core have these issues? No. It had other issues, but I thought it was progressing well in this area and many others. Check it out herehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsklJzPk1Zg&feature=bf_next&list=ULd2uae2DMaQs Notice the same command bevels edges, points and polys. Also notice that the bevel command truly bevels and the extrude command extends more like the bevel command in Modeler. NT knows what is needed to make our beveling more enjoyable.:D

probiner
05-24-2012, 10:59 PM
 
edit > just Fogbugzed it.
 
:beerchug:



NT knows what is needed to make our beveling more enjoyable.:D

Ah see... they went to the moon already, just need to go back :)

jeric_synergy
05-25-2012, 01:35 AM
I'd think one control we might find useful in Edge Bevel is what I'm thinking of as "Bias".

Basically, if the default Edge Bevel were described as a triangle, "Bias" would shift the tip of the triangle one way or the other. So, an equilateral triangle would be the default, and a right triangle would be one extreme or the other.

Kuzey
05-25-2012, 06:21 AM
First off..that UI looks sooooo retro..haha

Now that's cool..hope it gets into LW12!

Kuzey

Kuzey
05-25-2012, 06:56 AM
Multishift:

We need an option that keep the discs from deforming when part of a larger group. Maybe..bevel the discs and create extra loops (dotted lines) in between the important shapes?

Kuzey

gerry_g
05-25-2012, 09:05 AM
not valid, geometry and selected line would/could not yield such a result, maybe you want a 'Make Perfect Results EveryTime' button, come to think of it we all want one of those, bloody NewTek where is it ?

jeric_synergy
05-25-2012, 09:40 AM
in between the important shapes?

Kuzey
What's the algorithm for "importance"?

probiner
05-25-2012, 11:04 AM
Multishift:

We need an option that keep the discs from deforming when part of a larger group. Maybe..bevel the discs and create extra loops (dotted lines) in between the important shapes?

Kuzey

I think you're going a bit overboard here =P Looks like some regular sizing and inset operations would do good.
I "envy" Wings 3D for many things. Circularize (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znjO6NltRaI) is one :) "Simple" and powerfull

Snosrap
05-25-2012, 12:31 PM
LWCad's Mass Round tool has not been mentioned. It ROCKS! Check out here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk-XOXEPeQ4 and here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLJPPHrLGD8 The geometry needs to be a "solid", but I think thats a good thing.

Kuzey
05-25-2012, 01:06 PM
I think you're going a bit overboard here =P Looks like some regular sizing and inset operations would do good.
I "envy" Wings 3D for many things. Circularize (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znjO6NltRaI) is one :) "Simple" and powerfull

Ok..forget my last post.

Probiner, that is perfect...I wants it :D

Kuzey

erikals
05-25-2012, 01:57 PM
LWCad's Mass Round tool has not been mentioned. It ROCKS! Check out here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk-XOXEPeQ4 and here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLJPPHrLGD8 The geometry needs to be a "solid", but I think thats a good thing.

need to get me that plugin... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/caffeine.gif

 

Snosrap
05-25-2012, 02:03 PM
need to get me that plugin... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/caffeine.gif

  Best set of modeling tools for any polygonal app. :thumbsup:

Silkrooster
05-25-2012, 11:06 PM
One thing I didn't see mentioned and maybe I missed it. Is self collision for all bevel tools. The tools should be smart enough to know not to go beyond cross intersection unless told to do so. In other words it should be the default, with the option of the original algorithm.
I'm thinking text here, that's the main issue for beveling.

erikals
05-26-2012, 05:41 AM
 
would be nice, but is it possible though?
i know Bevel++ does this, but the results are not always 100%...
http://www.youtube.com/user/erikalst/videos?query=Bevel%2B%2B

 

probiner
07-01-2014, 12:43 PM
If you guys want to do some solid chamfer stuff just make a visit to blender and it's bevel tool (not modifier).

http://prntscr.com/3ye2nd
http://prntscr.com/3ye3hu

Cheers

bazsa73
07-01-2014, 12:47 PM
If you guys want to do some solid chamfer stuff just make a visit to blender and it's bevel tool (not modifier).

http://prntscr.com/3ye2nd
http://prntscr.com/3ye3hu

Cheers

Devilry! :D

erikals
07-01-2014, 02:40 PM
i do like this trick though...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY09t3wXN2M

probiner
07-01-2014, 04:12 PM
That still rounds and no offset... :/ I don't see the trick.
It's the same things as here: http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?99469-How-to-achive-smooth-and-sharp-look-in-same-mesh&p=893403&viewfull=1#post893403

Plus the points with valence different than 4 that it generates usually come with problems... so... :/

erikals
07-01-2014, 04:54 PM
well, there is always... >

http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/alien.gif


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnvvk8_llp8

probiner
07-01-2014, 05:22 PM
[facepalm] awesome...

jwiede
07-01-2014, 06:42 PM
Just curious, but did Core have these issues?

Not really. Core had alleged "waviness" issues, but many of the "basic" modeling functions were decently solid (f.e. bevel, extrude & friends).

jwiede
07-08-2014, 05:06 AM
[facepalm] awesome...

Yep, R15's new bevel tool is very nice to use. R16 ought to be interesting.

probiner
10-03-2015, 12:16 PM
I'm not responsible by any mind blown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOYpaJWNPaU

JorgeATL
02-01-2017, 05:22 PM
Hi guys. Not sure if this is the correct forum for my question. I've been a lightwave user for quite sometime (Video Toaster 2000) and I've come across something I've never seen. Currently running Lightwave 2015.3 and in Modeler, I'm missing some tools/functions I used to have. I'm missing the Chamfer and Thicken tools. They're not under the Modify/Extend panel. Not sure what to do, but it's likely I've hit a wrong key of some kind. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

135859

jwiede
02-01-2017, 06:11 PM
Hi guys. Not sure if this is the correct forum for my question. I've been a lightwave user for quite sometime (Video Toaster 2000) and I've come across something I've never seen. Currently running Lightwave 2015.3 and in Modeler, I'm missing some tools/functions I used to have. I'm missing the Chamfer and Thicken tools. They're not under the Modify/Extend panel. Not sure what to do, but it's likely I've hit a wrong key of some kind. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

135859

Okay a couple things to try (BTW, really ought to create a new thread for this):

1. Check to see if (in "Edit Plugins/File") there's an entry for "core_tools" (core_tools.p/.plugin). If not, add from "(LWAppDir)/support/plugins/model/".

2. In search tool at top of left side of "Edit Menu Layout" panel, search for "Chamfer", select it below, and then press "Find" button. If nothing shows up, you'll need to regenerate your menus.

Hope that helps, please make a new thread if problems continue.

prometheus
02-01-2017, 06:37 PM
Hi guys. Not sure if this is the correct forum for my question. I've been a lightwave user for quite sometime (Video Toaster 2000) and I've come across something I've never seen. Currently running Lightwave 2015.3 and in Modeler, I'm missing some tools/functions I used to have. I'm missing the Chamfer and Thicken tools. They're not under the Modify/Extend panel. Not sure what to do, but it's likely I've hit a wrong key of some kind. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

135859

By default thicken and chamfer should not be located in the modify tab, look for them in the multiply/extend tab, but maybe you did and you just wrote that wrong?

jwiede
02-01-2017, 06:49 PM
By default thicken and chamfer should not be located in the modify tab, look for them in the multiply/extend tab, but maybe you did and you just wrote that wrong?

I figured he meant "Multiply/Extend", considering there is no "Extend" group of buttons in the "Modify" tab.

jeric_synergy
02-01-2017, 07:28 PM
Jorge, when it's necessary, I just rescan the entire plugin folder and try to get everything back-- if you're missing some, you're missing others very likely.

Of course, they might all end up in the "Additional" category (what a misfeature!), but at least the SEARCH function in Menu Editor will find them, if you remember the name well enough.

Archiving your config files on a regular schedule might be a good idea: I >always< save a copy when I alter the Menu and/or Key configs.

JorgeATL
02-01-2017, 10:27 PM
Thanks brotha. That did the trick.

JorgeATL
02-01-2017, 10:29 PM
Okay a couple things to try (BTW, really ought to create a new thread for this):

1. Check to see if (in "Edit Plugins/File") there's an entry for "core_tools" (core_tools.p/.plugin). If not, add from "(LWAppDir)/support/plugins/model/".

2. In search tool at top of left side of "Edit Menu Layout" panel, search for "Chamfer", select it below, and then press "Find" button. If nothing shows up, you'll need to regenerate your menus.

Hope that helps, please make a new thread if problems continue.

Thanks. That did it!

Asticles
02-02-2017, 05:51 AM
well, there is always... >

http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/alien.gif


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnvvk8_llp8

Well LWCAD round is not far away from this. Why not on the next version?

erikals
02-02-2017, 07:45 AM
'bit on the fence when it comes to LWCad Mass Rounder, the docs are quite limited.
and i was told Mass Rounder had gotten an update, though never saw any further info on it.

prometheus
02-02-2017, 11:26 AM
I figured he meant "Multiply/Extend", considering there is no "Extend" group of buttons in the "Modify" tab.

Hah...I got no skills to go outside of what someone litterally writes, even though I of course sort of knew that as well, I think I may suffer from some sadistic pain in the a...disorder and I do have a habit at being a bit..just a bit obtuse from time to time..when people do not mention the correct name convention or category, I will better my ways....Someday:D..or I may get my but kicked myself when I s...up.

And as to trying to get in track with chamfer bevels etc, though not in lightwave...
Have you guys tested designsparks?..a cad software that is free, though it needs you to register with a lof of personal info, I came across it not long ago since where I work now, we needed to get some mechanical drawings done, not very complicated stuff, just some flange parts, by my recommendation we tried freecad, for me it worked ok, but for another guy it may have been a bit to complex and not so easy to work with, so then I looked around and found designsparks, it has some nice fillet, chamfer tools that works live/interactivly, they are also parametric so you can go in and change fillets later, fillets can also be variable on the edge sides.

It worked out nicely for my collegue who finally made the drawings (he has better knowledge of the parts in question) so that´s why I merely adviced about designsparks, and further helped him working in the software since I am more custom to many various 3d tools.

The downside with designsparks may be that you can not create drawing sheets with templates presets, they have limited the software to not include dimension tools when exporting dxf or printing, but you can draw dimensions lines and also change those dimension lines value and the model will change accordingling.

We could however just print viewports out to pdf, that way we got the dimension lines and measurements in there anyway...not just in correct rescaled propertions on to the drawing sheet, but what was important is the measurements are there and dimension lines, then I could just import the variuos views to the free inkscape and place them on to a premade svg drawing template.
There is an option to get the model out in correct scale, if you export to dxf ..but then you do not have dimensions, it may be possible to mix the above approaches.

designsparks is much more initiuve to work with than freecad,(though I recognize freecad to be more extensive and advanced in terms of what you can do) for rapid design..designsparks might be for some people, just remember that all the fillette, chamfer, and extrude tools are consolidated within the push tool, so if you look for the fillett tool or buttons etc, you won´t find it..other then to click on the push tool.
Another cool thing with design sparks, it exports out 3d pdfs, so you can in essential add dimensions with just acrobate reader as well, and anyone with just acrobate reader should be able to se your product in full 3d.
Designspark can import stl and export stl, and it also imports obj, so you can do something in lightwave and then load to designsparks and fillet edges there, if needed for hard surface only or some construction part that doesn´t need to be quads etc.

jwiede
02-02-2017, 04:52 PM
'bit on the fence when it comes to LWCad Mass Rounder, the docs are quite limited.
and i was told Mass Rounder had gotten an update, though never saw any further info on it.

I'm seeing some questionable behavior from LWCAD's Round in 5.2 (on LW2015.3 MacUB64). Should Round be able to deal with concave edge junctions as either poly or NURBS type? Here, any sort of concave edge junction is left as an empty hole (happens regardless of fillet/chamfer/blend), where convex edge junctions are filled with either poly or NURBS "grid" geometry as expected. Does LWCAD 5.2's Round behave the same way on Windows w.r.t. concave edge junctions?

I'm also a bit surprised that edge-centric tools like Round require me to manually select all edges in the tool each time, won't accept LW edge selections as input, and offer no provision for saving/loading selections. With complex edge selections, the last thing I want is to have to reselect them over and over per tool. I understand LW lacks adequate edge support for stuff like saving edge selection sets, but as LWCAD is clearly tracking edge selections internally, seem like it could easily provide a mechanism for edge selection sets (and conversion to/from LW edge selections). I'll have to email Viktor and ask about that, as manual selection by tool without reusability is both inefficient and raises risk of errors.

-----

As for the notion that LWCAD Round is "close to" C4D's Bevel, I have to strongly disagree with that, particularly from a workflow/usability angle. C4D's Bevel tool is significantly easier and more efficient to use IMO (incl. context hinting/help), plus allows working with edge selections as input, etc. It works for a broader set of scenarios (incl. concave junctions), and offers much more control over how junction grid geometry is generated. Also, C4D's Bevel is scriptable, comes in both tool and deformer variants, and can be driven by Xpresso (C4D's nodes). On the surface they're similar, but in the details I believe C4D's Bevel wins easily.

Don't get me wrong, I _love_ LWCAD, and am always deeply impressed by what Viktor's accomplished with it given the LWSDK limitations. I just think that ultimately, those LWSDK limitations create a number of significant usability and workflow issues in LWCAD's tool UX (as well as LW's own tools' UX). That's not Viktor's fault, obviously. Nonetheless, when _directly_ comparing LW or LWCAD tools against specific tools in other 3D pkgs, those usability and workflow advantages are quite visible and significant. LW's GUI/UX limitations impact plugins like LWCAD as much as LW itself.

erikals
02-02-2017, 05:36 PM
thank you, this is good info.
i hope Viktor can take it further, rounding in general is such a time-consuming task.

Asticles
02-03-2017, 02:01 AM
I'm seeing some questionable behavior from LWCAD's Round in 5.2 (on LW2015.3 MacUB64). Should Round be able to deal with concave edge junctions as either poly or NURBS type? Here, any sort of concave edge junction is left as an empty hole (happens regardless of fillet/chamfer/blend), where convex edge junctions are filled with either poly or NURBS "grid" geometry as expected. Does LWCAD 5.2's Round behave the same way on Windows w.r.t. concave edge junctions?

I'm also a bit surprised that edge-centric tools like Round require me to manually select all edges in the tool each time, won't accept LW edge selections as input, and offer no provision for saving/loading selections. With complex edge selections, the last thing I want is to have to reselect them over and over per tool. I understand LW lacks adequate edge support for stuff like saving edge selection sets, but as LWCAD is clearly tracking edge selections internally, seem like it could easily provide a mechanism for edge selection sets (and conversion to/from LW edge selections). I'll have to email Viktor and ask about that, as manual selection by tool without reusability is both inefficient and raises risk of errors.

-----

As for the notion that LWCAD Round is "close to" C4D's Bevel, I have to strongly disagree with that, particularly from a workflow/usability angle. C4D's Bevel tool is significantly easier and more efficient to use IMO (incl. context hinting/help), plus allows working with edge selections as input, etc. It works for a broader set of scenarios (incl. concave junctions), and offers much more control over how junction grid geometry is generated. Also, C4D's Bevel is scriptable, comes in both tool and deformer variants, and can be driven by Xpresso (C4D's nodes). On the surface they're similar, but in the details I believe C4D's Bevel wins easily.

Don't get me wrong, I _love_ LWCAD, and am always deeply impressed by what Viktor's accomplished with it given the LWSDK limitations. I just think that ultimately, those LWSDK limitations create a number of significant usability and workflow issues in LWCAD's tool UX (as well as LW's own tools' UX). That's not Viktor's fault, obviously. Nonetheless, when _directly_ comparing LW or LWCAD tools against specific tools in other 3D pkgs, those usability and workflow advantages are quite visible and significant. LW's GUI/UX limitations impact plugins like LWCAD as much as LW itself.

You can select all edges with control+click on empty space, and then with shift+LMB you can round entire object. Is not perfect. I agree that needs some work, but is a good tool to have with lightwave.

The problem is that we're comparing the software with a much more expensive package, although you have prime edition (700€+vat), this is really limited compared to lightwave at the same price (moreless), IMHO. Full package costs 3000€+vat (in Spain).

Regards

spherical
02-03-2017, 04:34 PM
I'm also a bit surprised that edge-centric tools like Round require me to manually select all edges in the tool each time, won't accept LW edge selections as input, and offer no provision for saving/loading selections. With complex edge selections, the last thing I want is to have to reselect them over and over per tool. I understand LW lacks adequate edge support for stuff like saving edge selection sets, but as LWCAD is clearly tracking edge selections internally, seem like it could easily provide a mechanism for edge selection sets (and conversion to/from LW edge selections). I'll have to email Viktor and ask about that, as manual selection by tool without reusability is both inefficient and raises risk of errors.

Agreed. Very frustrating, tedious and error prone. Thought that I may have missed a tutorial or manual section addressing improvements in 5. Problem I've encountered is that the "fuzzy" area surrounding the cursor is still too large (better in this regard in 5 than 4 was), such that when manually selecting series of edges and you miss one, go back to get it and end up deselecting adjacent edges. Turns into a whack-a-mole game. Only way to be accurate is to zoom way in. On a dense mesh this becomes even more tedious.

spherical
02-03-2017, 04:36 PM
You can select all edges with control+click on empty space, and then with shift+LMB you can round entire object.

In 4 at least, all you had to do was click and drag in the viewport to round the whole object. Selecting all edges isn't the issue. Selecting a Loop, for example, is.

jwiede
02-03-2017, 04:40 PM
Agreed. Very frustrating, tedious and error prone.

Exactly. I sent Viktor a feature request last night about how to improve edge selection management in LWCAD 5.x (briefly, LWCAD-internal named edge selection sets, and ability to import/export to LW native edge selections, as well as persist to file). Hopefully he implements it, or something like it, soon. Should be doable from an LWSDK perspective, at least. LW doesn't really support native "edge selection sets", so I believe it'd also increase LWCAD's overall "feature value" to LW.

I also have an idea for systemic help/hinting display for tools, which might help address the general GUI lack of tooltips/etc. I'm trying to put together an extensible prototype where third-party plugins could easily integrate their own tips/hints as part of their plugin install. Problem is weighing effort against limited commercial market potential, but I think I can keep it lightweight enough to be worthwhile.

jeric_synergy
02-03-2017, 08:27 PM
To store Edge selections, I use Point Sets. While you can get ambiguous results in converting from Points to Edges (using Sel Edges), for the most part it is adequate. Adequate, not good.

probiner
02-26-2017, 05:54 AM
Well... Many of these wishes of mine have been fulfilled in some shape in Houdini... Not all is perfect, but it's getting there:
https://streamable.com/obcec

prometheus
02-26-2017, 06:01 AM
Well... Many of these wishes of mine have been fulfilled in some shape in Houdini... Not all is perfect, but it's getting there:
https://streamable.com/obcec

Sweet.

erikals
02-26-2017, 10:57 AM
Well... Many of these wishes of mine have been fulfilled in some shape in Houdini... Not all is perfect, but it's getting there:
https://streamable.com/obcec

:king:

samurai_x
02-26-2017, 07:57 PM
Well... Many of these wishes of mine have been fulfilled in some shape in Houdini... Not all is perfect, but it's getting there:
https://streamable.com/obcec

Looks like meshfusion in modo.

probiner
02-27-2017, 05:45 AM
Quite different.
Imagine I would give you the top right mesh that you can see in LW there: http://prntscr.com/edy9yq and I would ask you to give me back a 1-skin mesh for the the polygons that intersect. You would have to do it one polygon island at a time and at most you could do a script where it would use the boolean operation per polygon island (((A Union B) Union C) Union D....) and it would be ok'ish. But even then it would fail in one case: When a polygon island self intersects, which Houdini Boolean also solves: http://prntscr.com/edycxu

What is done next it's just a selection of the less flat edges and chamfer them to hold subdivision.


This said, it's not all perfect, but this boolean tool is really really good.

samurai_x
02-27-2017, 06:32 AM
is it? If the goal is the messy mesh on the top right to the dense mesh on the lower right, meshfusion can do that.
Maybe blender hardops, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NvM93tewbw&list=PLFc12MtckarrtGIqKP_kDmdB_ZpOcWSOU

probiner
02-27-2017, 07:03 AM
I could be wrong but no, because the meshes have to be in different objects in order to be combined, you have to pay the price of splitting them through layers (Which admittedly it's easier in Modo and Blender than in LW) and then boolean them in sequence. You can't have that bunch of polygons in a single layer or object and have it output a single outter skin. More over I'm guessing that if you pass a self intersecting mesh through mesh fusion it won't self-cut like this one: http://prnt.sc/edycxu

I'm not saying this is better that this or that solution but that it does produce results that are useful for things I need and so it's a great addition to the world of 3D tools available.

samurai_x
02-27-2017, 09:08 AM
Single layer or object and have it output a single outer skin, not in meshfusion. They have to be in separate layers and assigned as additive, subtractive, etc. Non destructive like Groboto. Well it is Groboto inside modo after all.

Self intersecting mesh that cuts and welds itself would be useful for doing architectural structures. Wish we had macros in lightwave to do that.