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wrightyp100
01-20-2012, 06:10 AM
Good.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/film-news/9023370/George-Lucas-retires-from-making-blockbusters.html

(oh, and I am aware my profile pic is based on something from his work. He didn't design it so I'm ok ;) )

Nangleator
01-20-2012, 06:37 AM
Wow, no more scintillating Lucas dialog? No more artfully crafted romantic scenes? No more long shots of people slowly discussing that they have little time and must move quickly, while strolling a short distance very slowly?

bazsa73
01-20-2012, 06:40 AM
wow, no more scintillating lucas dialog? No more artfully crafted romantic scenes? No more long shots of people slowly discussing that they have little time and must move quickly, while strolling a short distance very slowly?
:)

wrightyp100
01-20-2012, 06:55 AM
Nope...

wrightyp100
01-20-2012, 06:56 AM
Wow, no more scintillating Lucas dialog? No more artfully crafted romantic scenes? No more long shots of people slowly discussing that they have little time and must move quickly, while strolling a short distance very slowly?

Well said...

Andrewstopheles
01-20-2012, 07:18 AM
One of the best producers, but sorry not such a great writer or director in my personal view.
The guy deserves credit for how he got in the business, and for bringing us such fantastic ideas that never would have happened without him.
I also wanted to add, as a pioneer in the business he had few peers.
For Lucas to remake the film about the Tuskegee Airmen and retire in protest over the studios unwillingness to finance it he shows some true grit.

Nangleator
01-20-2012, 07:19 AM
True, I can't imagine what movies or the industry would look like without him.

rcallicotte
01-20-2012, 07:25 AM
Hollywood deserves to lose him.

Titus
01-20-2012, 10:00 AM
He is moviing into producing small films, not completely retiring.

probiner
01-20-2012, 10:41 AM
From what i saw in his last interview with Jon Stewart is looked a bit fed up with the industry/market side of thing just and wanted to do his thing, period.

Cryonic
01-20-2012, 11:26 AM
Lord knows he has more than enough money to fund his own projects.

speismonqui
01-20-2012, 04:32 PM
wow Lucas seems to be very angry, here's another slap in (our) face?
http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/fan-backlash-at-yet-another-star-wars-cash-in.html

Shnoze Shmon
01-20-2012, 05:15 PM
Lucas "assumes too much" when he says it's because of the all black cast.

They don't know how to market the movie because they've forgotten how to market a movie with quality content.










wow Lucas seems to be very angry, here's another slap in (our) face?
http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/fan-backlash-at-yet-another-star-wars-cash-in.html

I fail to find a slap in the face. I don't get why any fans would be upset at Star Wars characters appearing in adds. I liked them personally.

shrox
01-20-2012, 05:37 PM
THX-1138 and American Graffiti were good.

calilifestyle
01-20-2012, 05:39 PM
Well that sucks. I know he must have a load of cash but still if film making is in your blood, it's going to hurt him .

Dexter2999
01-20-2012, 07:10 PM
Ooooh... THE RADIOLAND MURDERS...an idea ages ahead of its time. Same theory as SIN CITY and whatnot, only done in 1994 before the technology was there yet.

3D Kiwi
01-20-2012, 09:51 PM
I must be one of the rare ones. I love all the starwars movies. I think he done a great job and gave me many hours of entertainment. So thanks George.

Ps I also liked all the Transformer movies.... Yea I know im sad :-(

Dexter2999
01-20-2012, 11:14 PM
I hated the prequels. Hated the fourth Indiana Jones movie. If I had to point my finger at one thing, it would be that he is an example of what happens when we get too old and are trying to do "cool" things (much like Paul McCartney with every pop album he has done since "Flaming Pie".)

But I give the man his due. He had the vision and ability to assemble some of the most talented people in their fields and have them keep pushing the bar in film. If he never made a single movie and Skywalker Ranch was his only accomplishment he would still be a giant in my eyes. He has raised the bar/set the standard not only in visual effects but also audio with the introduction of THX.

In my opinion, that man is to film, what Henry Ford was to automobiles. And that is no small thing.

Shnoze Shmon
01-21-2012, 08:42 AM
I must be one of the rare ones. I love all the starwars movies. I think he done a great job and gave me many hours of entertainment. So thanks George.

I Love them all too.:thumbsup:

Ryan Roye
01-21-2012, 09:45 AM
Film innovators like Lucas are great... but there really aren't enough of them out there and I think the film industry as a while has just gotten lazy and stuck in their ways.

And by lazy, I don't mean that the average film doesn't require a TON of work to build, I mean that there isn't a whole lot of thought put behind that work. ... and no, expertise and talent does not qualify as thought.

JBT27
01-21-2012, 10:32 AM
Well, he got into it with a drive to do his own thing, succeeded big time, certainly massively intensified a section of the industry, and was a major player in some of the most successful and iconic movies so far.

Kudos to him and all those who went with him on that. Irrespective of the gripes about poor writing and poor direction, which I will agree with, he counts for alot more than that, and I don't mean the loot either.

So he's got fed up and disillusioned with a corporate film industry, something he said he hated all along and wanted to break ... he's smart enough to have said that if you get that successful, you end up being that very thing.

If he's winding down going back to doing his own thing, then good for him, genuinely.

Of all the films I've looked forward to and seen, few compare to my first viewing of the original three Star Wars movies ... I haven't forgotten the hit I got off seeing those, even all these years later.

Julian.

wrightyp100
01-21-2012, 12:09 PM
I must be one of the rare ones. I love all the starwars movies. I think he done a great job and gave me many hours of entertainment. So thanks George.

Ps I also liked all the Transformer movies.... Yea I know im sad :-(

I'm not having a go here, but I just don't understand how people can enjoy the prequels. I genuinely don't get it. I don't think I ever will. There isn't one thing right about them. Star Trek did Star Wars but better than star wars. (The new Trek.) They really did.

Live long and prosper I say ;)

rwhunt99
01-21-2012, 01:28 PM
I think that he was pretty much done before he called it himself, he really hasn't done much but I think he truly changed the Sci-Fi genre and set it on its head.
I enjoyed all the Star Wars movies and I guess I'm a sucker for movies in general because there aren't too many (Sci-Fi) that I don't like.

Shnoze Shmon
01-21-2012, 09:05 PM
I'm not having a go here, but I just don't understand how people can enjoy the prequels. I genuinely don't get it. I don't think I ever will. There isn't one thing right about them. Star Trek did Star Wars but better than star wars. (The new Trek.)

Well just as you don't get how people love the prequels, I don't get how anyone doesn't. I like the prequels more than the originals.

Also I like Star Trek more than Star Wars and was a little put out by the "Well I want to do Star Wars but I landed Star Trek so I'll do Star Wars anyway" mentality. I didn't mind the "If Matt Jeffries had designed it today this is how it would look." I did mind the "Oops we already built the model we'll just make the Enterprise a monstrosity." And a brewery IS NOT an acceptable set for the interior of a Federation starship! Not to mention the water slide...

And I've gone this far I might as well say it. I like Star Trek the original series and Deep Space Nine. I don't like Star Wimps the next general psycho analysis. Although, Picard made a good Borg.

Ok... that's off my chest... as you were...

Ryan Roye
01-21-2012, 09:12 PM
Also I like Star Trek more than Star Wars...

My thoughts too... though it'd be nice if they could break away from the mentality that the original/TNG is the 1 and only part of the franchise worth expanding on... I guess their latest series blunder really damaged chances of new Star Trek content :(

Shnoze Shmon
01-21-2012, 09:57 PM
My thoughts too... though it'd be nice if they could break away from the mentality that the original/TNG is the 1 and only part of the franchise worth expanding on... I guess their latest series blunder really damaged chances of new Star Trek content :(

Yeah, I didn't like the way they ended the DS9 series.
They blew it up as if to say "There isn't going to be a movie AND were making sure of it!"

djwaterman
01-21-2012, 10:46 PM
THX-1138 and American Graffiti were good.

And add the first non re-mastered Star Wars, those 3 were his best work.
The success of Star Wars forced him into a lifetime of juvenile entertainment as he felt obliged to protect his concept through all the sequels that the market demanded. He always said he would have rather been making small independent films but all his time was spent over-seeing the Star Wars machine, you saw what happened to Jaws, for me personally I rate the last bunch of S.W's product to be about the same level of bad. But that first one he did was amazing at the time, plus American Graffiti and THX-1138 are timeless classics. Hope he makes some films of that quality again, look at what Clint Eastwood is doing.

Mr Rid
01-22-2012, 12:33 AM
He made some good films in the 70s. But that was about it. Back then he truly was a brilliant visionary. But he quickly lost his way after the unholy success of Star Wars which secured the blockbuster-popcorn-mechandising-franchise machine mode of studio moviemaking ever since, ending the best decade in American cinema. Lighting struck twice mainly due to Kershner who wisely matured Empire to the dark side. Then, Return of the Muppets utterly regressed into the most disappointing turd I have ever witnessed (seriously, Stormtroopers might as well be naked for all the good their armor does against even pebbles lobbed by teddy bears, while Leia's jungle pancho is better protection against blasters apparently). At best, a parody of Star Wars. He seemed blinded by ridiculous success and a sea of sycophants. I lost all expectation from him, and was never surprised. He proceeded to produce mostly bombs (my dead grandmother could produce a better movie than Howard the Duck), milking the same formula into homogenized oblivion- regurging/redigesting/re-excreting Star Wars into a lifeless, endless merchandising ad for itself. Despicable.


wow...http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/fan-backlash-at-yet-another-star-wars-cash-in.html And here I thought it couldnt possibly get any worse than Greedo shooting first.


The prequels were just there to me but then I wasnt expecting anything at all. This guy sums them up pretty well- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI

erikals
01-22-2012, 08:49 AM
...The prequels were just there to me but then I wasn't expecting anything at all. This guy sums them up pretty well- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI

no matter how sarcastic that review might seem, it's actually a quite good one.

but hey, maybe this new Lucas path is a good thing, maybe Lucas will get back to his roots, or somethin'...

 

Ryan Roye
01-22-2012, 08:55 AM
no matter how sarcastic that review might seem, it's actually a quite good one. 

Saw it too... when you can use some hick style and then put in as much background info, references and supporting material as he did it certainly works well. Kinda hides the fact as to how much work he put into it... but I consider that a good thing.

Personally, I'd rather see NEW directors and visionaries instead of comebacks and "once-successful-but-no-longer-a-creative-factor" people... people are relying too much on them as a whole. Nothing against them of course, just how I feel.

shrox
01-22-2012, 01:12 PM
...And here I thought it couldnt possibly get any worse than Greedo shooting first.

It's almost revisionist history!

shrox
01-22-2012, 01:14 PM
...but hey, maybe this new Lucas path is a good thing, maybe Lucas will get back to his roots, or somethin'...

1970's drug inspired stuff? Cool!

Surrealist.
01-22-2012, 03:14 PM
I am a big believer in following the things you truly believe in. Looking forward to what he produces from here forward. And I hope that Red Tails does well on its release.

jasonwestmas
01-22-2012, 03:23 PM
If Lucas is any film person at all you don't really retire from the art form. . . you retire from specific people and the business they represent.

Maybe this is good for the guy, I always thought Lucas was being overtaken by the commercialism aspect of film which tends to interfere with good story telling.

probiner
01-22-2012, 09:40 PM
This guy sums them up pretty well- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI

Golden!!!

jasonwestmas
01-22-2012, 11:10 PM
I can't believe I watched all 7 of those. I must really hate Episodes I&2.

Surrealist.
01-23-2012, 01:42 AM
I can't believe I watched all 7 of those.

Me neither. I watched about 30 seconds of it and thought, this production sucks. Turned it off. I guess if somebody wants to come off as being a critic that people will listen to, it kind of seems to me they should produce a product people actually want to watch first.

But I guess me, I am not really concerned too much about the critique side of it, actually. I enjoyed all of the films for what they were. But I am also happy to see him get back to his roots and interested in what will come of it.

And yeah , saying he has retired is not really accurate. I can understand and appreciate his feelings. And I think I can relate to his decisions, though I don't really know him. But I think we can all relate a little at least on some level.

I think the bottom line for me is that he has contributed quite a bit to the film industry and we are all quite well indebted to him.

wrightyp100
01-23-2012, 01:51 AM
Ha, yeah Harry S. Plinkett is the man.

I love those reviews, especially with the Nadine the hooker sub-plot.

You should watch the Half in the Bag reviews as well. Brilliant.

bazsa73
01-23-2012, 02:19 AM
I guess he is tired. So he retires. Or his tires are deflated. He must retire them.

Waves of light
01-23-2012, 02:44 AM
The VFX we see today wouldn't be around if it wasn't for Lucas and the Star Wars franchise. ILM, Pixar, Skywalker sounds. Yes, the guy has milked it, but then that's a sign of a good businessman as well as a film maker. And let's face it, it's not the first time he's come up against the big studios, writers' guild, etc.

Oh, and yes Phantom Menace sucks.

jasonwestmas
01-23-2012, 12:41 PM
Me neither. I watched about 30 seconds of it and thought, this production sucks. Turned it off. I guess if somebody wants to come off as being a critic that people will listen to, it kind of seems to me they should produce a product people actually want to watch first.

But I guess me, I am not really concerned too much about the critique side of it, actually. I enjoyed all of the films for what they were. But I am also happy to see him get back to his roots and interested in what will come of it.

And yeah , saying he has retired is not really accurate. I can understand and appreciate his feelings. And I think I can relate to his decisions, though I don't really know him. But I think we can all relate a little at least on some level.

I think the bottom line for me is that he has contributed quite a bit to the film industry and we are all quite well indebted to him.

Yes, the video "critique" comes off as rude, goofy and non-classy but despite all that, he raises really excellent points about good story telling in the context of any film, not just star-wars. Things that I knew about from reading the book "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" by Joseph Campbell who talks a little about the mythology behind starwars. . .but this critic guy really illustrates the points in a precise manner with video clips. . . which is a rare thing to see ime.

I think Lucas has an interesting and thoughtful side, the special fx and happy meal business just got in the way.

stiff paper
01-23-2012, 02:09 PM
From the moment I walked out of seeing Return of the Jedi in 1983 I've been of the opinion that it was a pity that George Lucas didn't retire right after Raiders of the Lost Ark.

I still think that.

At the time I couldn't understand how one person could be responsible for Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back, but then somehow also be responsible for Return of the Jedi.

Here, this is an interesting interview with Gary Kurtz:
http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2010/08/12/star-wars-was-born-a-long-time-ago-but-not-all-that-far-far-away-in-1972-filmmakers-george-lucas-and-gary-kurtz-wer/

jasonwestmas
01-23-2012, 02:32 PM
Oh you mean return of the muppets? :D Nothing against Henson puppetry but. . .there's a time and a place.

Surrealist.
01-23-2012, 04:24 PM
Yes, the video "critique" comes off as rude, goofy and non-classy but despite all that, he raises really excellent points about good story telling in the context of any film, not just star-wars. Things that I knew about from reading the book "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" by Joseph Campbell who talks a little about the mythology behind starwars. . .but this critic guy really illustrates the points in a precise manner with video clips. . . which is a rare thing to see ime.

I think Lucas has an interesting and thoughtful side, the special fx and happy meal business just got in the way.

Well I guess my point is, it is very easy to be a critic. Not so easy to juggle all the things someone like Lucas has to juggle and still maintain sanity much less a good story on every film every time.

Try it. You'll see.

Personally I just feel it is time for a little levity. Nothing wrong with learning about story. Always room to improve on that - if you plan on writing.

But most audiences - as box offices will prove - do not go to the movies for a great story - sadly. So all of us "smart" people can sit around and poo poo this and that.... so what?

Try getting a film made in Hollywood and see how far you get. There are about at least a half dozen factors that have to be in place to get something done. Of which good story is only one. And not necessarily the one that wins out in the end. Unfortunately.

The fact that Lucas not only got films made in the first place, much less did it at the level he did it at is a testament to his greatness. And for that and what he has contributed to the society in all he has done, deserves a little forgiveness.

It is one thing to sit back and think how another could have done something better, but another thing entirely to live that life and go through the processes and get to that point and then be held to the responsibilities that come with it.

Most people - especially the ones throwing the darts - would have folded someplace on the way to such greatness and I think it is good to look at it in that light and evaluate accordingly.

Moreover, look at the film he has fought so hard to get made and the reason he is "retiring" in the first place. Give the dude a break. He made some mistakes? OK fine. He moved on, and so should we.

Mr Rid
01-23-2012, 04:55 PM
...
but hey, maybe this new Lucas path is a good thing, maybe Lucas will get back to his roots, or somethin'...

 

I promise, Lucas is forever lost. Once again, he's made another cheezeball rolled in FX. Its too bad his latest crime against cinema was to ruin a tale of such historical relevance. http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/red-tails/


Well I guess my point is, it is very easy to be a critic. Not so easy to juggle all the things someone like Lucas has to juggle and still maintain sanity much less a good story on every film every time.

And yet there are plenty of good filmmakers who exhibit far more consistent ability. If the prequels had been a blank screen for two hours each they still would have recouped opening weekend- theres nothing to credit. As much as people hate Cameron, he's a directing machine, and is the only big director with no flops. Lucas has been unable to tie his own shoes since 1980. How does a filmmaker keep muddling with his own movies and making them consistently worse?! As someone put it, in another ten years the Star Wars re-edition will have become Spaceballs. He really needs to step away, stop ruining good concepts, and hand the final trilogy to someone who knows what the hell they're doing.

His brilliant contribution was over 30 years ago. Now he needs someone telling him 'No, thats a dumb idea George. Put down the camera before you hurt someone.'

jasonwestmas
01-23-2012, 04:58 PM
Yeah I think this goes well beyond just being a critic, some things are just plain bad.

Cryonic
01-23-2012, 05:26 PM
From the moment I walked out of seeing Return of the Jedi in 1983 I've been of the opinion that it was a pity that George Lucas didn't retire right after Raiders of the Lost Ark.

I still think that.

At the time I couldn't understand how one person could be responsible for Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back, but then somehow also be responsible for Return of the Jedi.


George Lucas was neither the Director nor the Writer for Empire Strikes Back. Whereas he was a Writer for Return of the Jedi.

erikals
01-23-2012, 05:40 PM
 
do remember though,

before star wars, there was nothing...

before pixar, there was nothing...

 

shrox
01-23-2012, 05:49 PM
 
do remember though,

before star wars, there was nothing...

before pixar, there was nothing...

 

No, there was John Dykstra.

erikals
01-23-2012, 06:19 PM
nah, i could mention several great names as far as SWIV goes, and others,
but as a whole, George deserves big credit on that piece...

Surrealist.
01-23-2012, 07:42 PM
I promise, Lucas is forever lost. Once again, he's made another cheezeball rolled in FX. Its too bad his latest crime against cinema was to ruin a tale of such historical relevance. http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/red-tails/



And yet there are plenty of good filmmakers who exhibit far more consistent ability. If the prequels had been a blank screen for two hours each they still would have recouped opening weekend- theres nothing to credit. As much as people hate Cameron, he's a directing machine, and is the only big director with no flops. Lucas has been unable to tie his own shoes since 1980. How does a filmmaker keep muddling with his own movies and making them consistently worse?! As someone put it, in another ten years the Star Wars re-edition will have become Spaceballs. He really needs to step away, stop ruining good concepts, and hand the final trilogy to someone who knows what the hell they're doing.

His brilliant contribution was over 30 years ago. Now he needs someone telling him 'No, thats a dumb idea George. Put down the camera before you hurt someone.'

It is perfectly fine to have an opinion of the guy. I don't agree.

I did not really care for the story line in Avatar frankly. That's my opinion.

James Cameron is a great powerhouse director. He does something that few people can.

Opinions come easy.

Actually getting films made is hard. Does not matter how many people do really well at it. I'd say it is better than 1,000 to 1 the bad films to good that come out of Hollywood each year.

For some reason people just like to pick on the big guys. Either way, it is just opinion.

jasonwestmas
01-23-2012, 08:34 PM
That's right Richard, nothing really counts since it's all a bunch of opinions anyway. Might as well just give up. I surrender. =)

Dexter2999
01-23-2012, 09:54 PM
George Lucas was neither the Director nor the Writer for Empire Strikes Back. Whereas he was a Writer for Return of the Jedi.

He may not have been the credited writer but he plotted out the entire trilogy. And as the producer he more than likely was controlling writes and rewrites for the production.

bazsa73
01-23-2012, 10:53 PM
I dont blame him overtendering his child, the starwars saga epic whatever. Any of us would have done the same. I'm pretty sure about that because when you are surrounded by people licking all your butt then you tend to believe that your crap tastes good.

Surrealist.
01-23-2012, 10:54 PM
That's right Richard, nothing really counts since it's all a bunch of opinions anyway. Might as well just give up. I surrender. =)

Lol!

Sorry, I probably am coming off the wrong way entirely and my sincere apology.

Let me put it this way then. I figure the things I have to say about it are rather moot because it is all just my opinion. I am far more critical of Hollywood content, really than anyone I know. But I just don't share it much with anyone. It is my own private hell that I really can not stand Hollywood movies at all, period! I do have a few classics on my shelf that I watch over and over. Hitchcock, Wells, that kind of thing. And a few contemporary films here and there that I love.

But I just have a lot of respect at the same time for people who get films made because I have an inkling of how hard it is to do it. So I just sort of bite my lip.

As for George Lucas, I just think he deserves more credit than he is being given by his critics.

My daily passion is to make films and stories that are different than what is being offered. But because I have written now probably about 20 screenplays and produced a few films I know how incredibly hard it is to do. Much less pull off something innovative and different.

So my answer is to simply stay quiet and do my own thing. Maybe I'll be able to contribute to it maybe I'll fail miserably. But at least I tried.

In the context of learning about story and also all of the types of things that can get in the way of making a good film there is a great series of interviews with Alfred Hitchcock where is is very candid about his mistakes though most of his career.

http://www.hitchcockwiki.com/wiki/Interview:_Alfred_Hitchcock_and_Francois_Tuffaut_% 28Aug/1962%29

wrightyp100
01-25-2012, 02:11 AM
Just so everyone knows, he did have a hand in writing empire. Leigh Brackett turned in a script but died before she could mod it. Lucas didn't really like it, but took elements from it and did some heavy re-writes with Lawrence Kasdan. She is still credited as a screen writer on the film

http://scyfilove.com/2259/read-leigh-bracketts-original-script-ahead-of-the-empire-strikes-backs-30th-anniversary/

Kersh (the director) however, rewrote chunks as they filmed.

erikals
01-25-2012, 02:45 AM
worth a look,

Colorado Film School interview with Irvin Kershner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-g0nlreeUo
 

-EsHrA-
01-25-2012, 02:54 AM
milking...
a good businessman...

uhm no.

Mr Rid
01-25-2012, 01:52 PM
The post 'sensitizing' of Han should have been taken further- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VJp9QGjGmY&feature=related

Lucas improves The Scream
101213

101214

101216

Ugh, I just now saw Yoda peddling Brisk tea.

Some Lucas quotes-

"People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians"

"Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten."

Q&A- On your special edition, do you expect any backlash from fans who might resent your tampering with a classic?

"I don't know. It's my classic. On the one hand, I'm doing this, while on the other hand I'm on the Artists Rights Board, a foundation that's trying to protect films from being changed--which I feel very strongly about, because with the technology we have today, anybody can go back and do this kind of thing. I can sort of see the future, and I want to protect films as they are and as they should be. I don't want to see them colorized, I don't want to see their formats changed, I don't want to see them re-edited, and I don't want to see what I'm able to do now, which is add more characters and do all kinds of things that nobody even contemplated before."

"I am very concerned about our national heritage, and I am very concerned that the films that I watched when I was young and the films that I watched throughout my life are preserved, so that my children can see them."

"As a filmmaker and a lover of cinema, I have always appreciated the many disciplines that go into making a film-- the props, the costumes, all the aspects that come together to make the whole as great as the sum of its parts. I have archived all the important pieces from my own films, and I am a staunch believer it's important that we all make an effort to preserve our cinematic heritage-- before it's too late."

- George Lucas, a longtime foe of "colorized" movies, has sharply criticized Columbia TriStar Home Entertainment's decision to release two Three Stooges DVDs today (Tuesday) that will allow viewers to watch them in either their original black-and-white or digitally colored versions. In an interview with the Associated Press, Lucas said, that the Stooges' slapstick comedy belongs in a black-and-white universe.

"Would color distract from their comedy and make it not as funny anymore?" Lucas said. "Maybe just the fact that they're in black and white makes it funny, because their humor is dated. But by putting it in black and white, it puts it in a context where you can appreciate it for what it was. But you try to make it in full living color and try to compare it to a Jim Carrey movie, then it's hard for young people to understand."

Unlike some people, Tristar allowed fans a choice of versions to watch. Lucas contradicts the hell out of himself here, explaining precisely why I prefer the unprocessed, unscrewed look of the original version of Star Wars I have on Laser, matte lines and all. It puts it in the context of the time it was made so you can appreciate it exactly for what it was- the most monumental phenomenon in movie history.

Younger people today have no idea how huge an impact Star Wars had on the world at that time. Nothing like that will ever happen again as audiences are too jaded by commercialism, easy access entertainment, and are constantly inundated with expensive, cutting edge spectacle. Star Wars came at a grim time in American history when people really needed something positive to look forward to. A New Hope. Lucas had the forsesight to give young people a positive alternative to drugs that so many were escaping into. Like myself, there are so many people working in film today because of the impact Star Wars had on them. Its just Sithian the way Lucas keeps tainting that source inspiration.

Cageman
01-25-2012, 03:07 PM
All I can say is that... without Lucas, many of us would probably not be working within this industry today, doing VFX for Television or Film. He really pushed the envelope with Episode 4, 5 and 6 regarding practical/optical/motioncontrolled/stop motion VFX... and again with Episode 1, 2 and 3 regarding digital effects.

Despite bad writing and directing, many of us owe him because he helped (big time) shape an industry where people like us actually can make a living.

stiff paper
01-25-2012, 04:48 PM
Well now. I think we can all agree that computers and computer technology would have developed just fine whether George Lucas had ever existed or not. Given that, then I can't see it as anything other than completely inevitable that, again, whether Star Wars had ever existed or not, by this point we'd be roughly where we are anyway in terms of Visual Effects technology.

Yes, George Lucas was the one who was responsible for pushing things at that point, but if he hadn't then it wouldn't have been very long before somebody else would have pushed all of those same things. It wouldn't have been Star Wars, no, but the technology would have moved along anyway.

Really, can you honestly imagine that we'd have all this computing power in a single desktop, and that we'd be playing games on our computers just like we do now, but somehow it would never have occurred to anybody (in the whole world) to make a film with some spaceships in it?

You know, some of you might benefit from considering that Star Trek was on TV in the mid-late 1960s. Asimov was writing the Foundation novels in the 1940s (to which Star Wars owes an enormous amount, even though it's never acknowledged). Try watching some of the classic 1950s SF movies. There are plenty of spaceships. Hell, Star Wars itself only ended up being called Star Wars because Lucas couldn't afford the rights to Flash Gordon.

George Lucas gave us the first Star Wars and then Raiders of the Lost Ark. Very enjoyable films. Isn't that enough? Do we really have to continually insist that without George Lucas we'd all be living in mud huts?

jasonwestmas
01-25-2012, 05:43 PM
Well there's always Peter Jackson and James Cameron for pushing the CG envelope.

Dexter2999
01-25-2012, 06:22 PM
Without ILM there would probably never have been a Stan Winston Studios or a WETA (or a Digital Domain..etc...)

And without George Lucas there would have been no ILM.

The man has shortcomings for sure (who among us doesn't?) but anyone who believes that movies would still be what they are today without him is seriously deluded.

I compared him to Henry Ford earlier and I think that is the closest comparison there is to what he has done. Henry Ford wasn't an amazing engineer who changed the design of automobiles. He paid engineers to do that. He wasn't an amazing driver who set records with automobiles. And without being some sort of phenom at either driving or designing cars he still changed the industry.

George Lucas may not be a great director or writer, but do not doubt that he has left his mark on this industry and in the process of doing so he has inspired generations that follow.


It seriously irks me to see people being dismissive of his accomplishments. Might as well walk around saying things like "Neil Armstrong? Big deal, if it wasn't him it would have been someone else to be first on the moon."

erikals
01-25-2012, 06:26 PM
...Hell, Star Wars itself only ended up being called Star Wars because Lucas couldn't afford the rights to Flash Gordon...

not quite, he didn't have the money to make Flash, so he decided to make his own thing.

also, Lucas was waay ahead of anyone else when it came to computer graphics, no one else had a vision like his. He deserves lots of credit on creating Pixar and the Pixar computers. (and ILM)

 

KurtF
01-26-2012, 11:46 AM
And Editdroid, which led to all of todays non-linear editing systems. And improved theater sound and projection, his THX company greatly upgraded the theater experience.

He's still primarily a business man, and you can see that in his story choices. I prefer better written pieces to his watered down PG13 fare, but hey, each to their own.

He's a modern Walt Disney, pushing the tech envelope, generating tons of cash, and launching lots of artists into the world.

jeric_synergy
01-26-2012, 01:10 PM
 
do remember though,

before star wars, there was nothing...

before pixar, there was nothing...

 
??? Is this snark? 'Cuz unless I seriously disremember*, "2001" came out in 1969, while SW came out in 1976. I don't think "2001" was 'nothing'.


(*Actually it was 1968 and 1977, so the lag was even greater.)

Very likely my snark-meter is busted.

Waves of light
01-26-2012, 02:25 PM
There are so many points on here that I agree with... too many to quote.

The guy will be part of our childhood no matter what. There probably isn't a single person in this forum that hasn't seen at least one of the Star Wars films. I personally would have given my right arm to have worked with him, or on one of his productions. I don't understand why people hate him so much.

I just watched the Adidas ad... that was funny.

Also, the Phantom Menace may well be rubbish, but my 9 year old son still wants to go and see it in 3D. More money for the Lucas purse. Great business man, now cashing in on the next generation.

Ernest
01-26-2012, 05:26 PM
Well now. I think we can all agree that computers and computer technology would have developed just fine whether George Lucas had ever existed or not. Given that, then I can't see it as anything other than completely inevitable that, again, whether Star Wars had ever existed or not, by this point we'd be roughly where we are anyway in terms of Visual Effects technology.

We can also say that if Edison hadn't invented the light-bulb, someone else would surely have by now. If Tesla hadn't invented AC current transmission, someone else would have. If Newton had not invented calculus, some else would have. So the world would be exactly the same without Edison, Tesla, Curie, Newton, Einstein, Plank, Bohr, Descartes, and Gandhi ever being born.

However, it was neither me not my physics teacher who came up with the theory of relativity. Guessing whether or not we would have, had Einstein not been born, is meaningless because he was born and he did invent the theory of relativity. And Lucas existed and he did revolutionize film-making and VFX. Not me, not my physics teacher, not anyone who could have potentially revolutionized VFX, but him.


That said, I wipe my... pet llama's drool with his emotional blackmail. So we have to like whatever he does because if we don't then we're an art-stiffling studio-executive nazi? I'm sorry? We're not telling him what he has to do. But he can't come around and tell us that, just because he created such or such a movie freely, that then we HAVE to think it's good and we HAVE to like it!

wrightyp100
01-27-2012, 02:35 AM
My biggest problem with the man is his utter contempt for all those that paid to see his movies and buy merch.

Yes he changed the industry, yes he paid Irvin Kershners fine on empire for not having crew credits at the start of the movie, yes he gave us Pixar... But he keeps changing things that while flawed, shouldnt be changed.

This says it all really.

http://www.movieline.com/2011/09/01/1988-george-lucas-would-totally-hate-2011-george-lucas/

It all stemed I think from TBS colourizing old movies. (Good or bad) they are works of art.

I'm glad he's going back to his indie roots. And I hope we see the man of old.

Edit- actually, read this.. http://savestarwars.com/lucasspeechagainstspecialedition.html

erikals
01-27-2012, 02:47 AM
 
c'mon Jeric, you can't compare 2001 to Star Wars... (numbers of FX, types of FX, the concept,... etc)
2001 was/is great, but they are too far off... but ok, maybe "nothing" was a bit harsh...

 

Surrealist.
01-27-2012, 03:42 AM
I don't know. I lived through the sixties and my dad and I used to play chess and watch Star Trek. It was lame but we enjoyed it. I was well aware of 2001 but when it came out I was not going to theaters much at my age.

So when Star Wars came out, it was clearly on another level entirely to me. I never once had the thought that this was just a rehash of science fiction to date at that time. It felt utterly new and innovative.

As for changes, I don't know, I mean it is an interesting problem for some people. And I think the easy answer is, if you don't like it being tampered with, don't buy it, Stick to the original.

The larger problem at hand is the amount of films that will be lost due to lack of funding for restoration. I have some editions of Hitchcock films that have been restored and it is quite a nice thing to have. And apparently there is very little agreement from the studios to actually take on these expensive projects. And lots of "restoration" that is not really up to par, so it is indeed a problem. Many of the classics could be lost forever.

wrightyp100
01-27-2012, 03:56 AM
Not as easy to just "stick to the originals".

I bought the 2006 dvd set with the "original versions" on there. Turns out they are not. The are laserdisc versions put onto dvd. You can't get the originals. Lucasfilm has seen to that.

Even Speilberg wishes lucas (and anyone else who alters films) would stop.

He regrets altering ET and says he "points people to the '82 release".

Surrealist.
01-27-2012, 04:11 AM
Well again. Interesting problem for some people. The only answer is to not buy, complain, return merchandise you feel has been misrepresented.

For you that is a frustrating loss. Kinda sucks.

For me, the only reason I have not gone back and fixed my big mistakes in my first three films is because there is no financial or career reason to. Nothing to be gained from it. Creatively it is just frustrating. I cringe looking at it and wish there was a good reason to go back and fix it. For me it is more productive to move on.

If I were in Lucas' shoes and if I was cringing each time I saw the effects shots not being what I wanted, I'd be very tempted to do the same. The purists will complain endlessly. But I think really it is up to the person who created it to make the final call. Only he can assess what will be gained or lost and what is important. If he is willing to loose fans for something he sees as more important then I suppose it is his call.

Personally, I don't have a problem with it at all. And I really just can't get behind any movement to stop people from doing it. They should have the freedom to do it and should have the freedom to suffer the consequences that may occur. As long as he is alive, I support his right to do so.

erikals
01-27-2012, 04:49 AM
 
Lucas needs to learn "Less is More"
 

wrightyp100
01-27-2012, 05:11 AM
Its more the point that he lobbied against it.

His big passionate speech about it being"barbaric" going back and endlessly changing movies just makes him a hypocrite.

I too have short films that I cringe at some of the errors I made or a line of dialogue I wrote, but I won't rejig it. Thats where I was at, thats what I did. I have to live with it.

To not see his and STILL support him just blows my mind.

BABOOOOM!

There it goes. ;)

erikals
01-27-2012, 05:22 AM
 
fixing the car,... it needs caution...
 
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h105/darkanbil/052961-2.jpg

http://www.creativecrash.com/system/photos/000/107/475/107475/big/ford_34_hot_rod_5.jpg?1286635874

wrightyp100
01-27-2012, 06:23 AM
Hehe. Love it.

Surrealist.
01-27-2012, 06:30 AM
Its more the point that he lobbied against it.

His big passionate speech about it being"barbaric" going back and endlessly changing movies just makes him a hypocrite.

I too have short films that I cringe at some of the errors I made or a line of dialogue I wrote, but I won't rejig it. Thats where I was at, thats what I did. I have to live with it.

To not see his and STILL support him just blows my mind.

BABOOOOM!

There it goes. ;)

Well that has to do with congress and is concerned with copyright law as far as I can tell without further research. It is comparing apples to oranges.


Still, while George Lucas does seem to be warning people of the future about George Lucas, it must be noted that his speech was primarily about the artist’s rights to preserve his own work—which also includes the right to make any alterations he desires.

As long as Lucas is alive he has the right to change his works, which in effect is after all what he was fighting for the basic right to do sounds like to me. You don't have to like it.

It does not make him a Hypocrite.

But that said, also a man is after all free to change his mind. God forbid! How many years ago was that? 1998? A lot can happen in that time.

wrightyp100
01-27-2012, 07:03 AM
Empire and Jedi are not really his work. Irvin Kershner and Richard Marquand directed those. Yes Lucas funded them and producer credits etc, If we look at the full extent of that trascript, Lucas is the custodian of those two movies. They are not his work.

So I stand by what I said. Hypocrite comment and all.

erikals
01-27-2012, 09:52 AM
Return of the Jedi, my cut...

wiped out the teddy-bears and made this the final scene >
see, it's not that hard to improve things...

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101257&stc=1&d=1327683105

wrightyp100
01-27-2012, 11:49 AM
Yub Nub.

erikals
01-27-2012, 12:27 PM
Empire and Jedi are not really his work. Irvin Kershner and Richard Marquand directed those.

he was a writer though...

"George Lucas created the Ewoks because he wanted Return of the Jedi to feature a tribe of some primitive creatures that bring down the technological Empire".
agh,.. why George... why...!!? http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/smilies/smack.gif

erikals
01-27-2012, 01:08 PM
 
the new "improved" Obi Wan scream,...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yxuDU8gims

 

CROUTON213
01-27-2012, 01:24 PM
Is Mojo the Lightwave animator still offering a prize for Lightwave Star Wars tie fighters? Where is Mojo now, making the new version of Babylon 5 for the next generation? Or is there a Seaquest special edition coming soon? Or maybe he worked on Red Tails with Ron Thornton and I loved Red Tails and Star Wars and the Clone Wars and Titanic and Avatar and you should just make me feel okay about that because George Lucas and James Cameron are patriarchs of the digital movie frontier. I hope to stand on their shoulders and eat cheeze. "I love you padme" CUT --- now bring in the animation!

wrightyp100
01-30-2012, 03:53 AM
@erik, yes, but according to his orignal speech, if one of the main collaborators is dead, then the movie is then locked to further changes as they can't contribute. Irvin and Richard are dead. Deceased, pushin' up the daisies, av gone to join the chior invisible (to quote cleese :) )

Thats what he said. But hey. this argument will rage forever and ever. It will never get resolved.

I hereby bow out of this.

I prefer your ending by the way.

erikals
01-30-2012, 04:47 AM
...I hereby bow out of this.

oh no you don't... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHJOz_y9rZE

 

wrightyp100
01-30-2012, 04:57 AM
Haha! You're right. I'm back. That was awesome.

Nangleator
01-30-2012, 06:21 AM
Yub Nub.

Ootini!

jasonwestmas
01-30-2012, 08:18 AM
Women love the ewoks, cloaked Oootinis and the effeminate male robots. That's the only reason they might be in there. ;)

erikals
01-30-2012, 08:22 AM
http://www.mediatechpro.com/gif_samples/mm2/dollar2.gif

jasonwestmas
01-30-2012, 08:45 AM
http://www.mediatechpro.com/gif_samples/mm2/dollar2.gif

Yes men spend a lot of money on women. ;)

Chris V
02-01-2012, 01:54 PM
Gotta love it. People want you to be a success and wish you well. Until, that is, you BECOME a success. then they throw up dollar signs and cut you down for being a success. Lucas is a successful filmmaker and businesman, something pretty much each and every one of us on this forum would like to be or have a hand in. Heaven forbid any of you get your wish and become successful, or everyone else who wished you well and spurred you on will turn on you. ;)

Oh, and I saw Red Tails this weekend. Loved it and wished I had had a small part in making it.

As a film watcher, I don't have to have every movie be an award winning drama with a unique, cutting edge, epic plot and writing. If I want those films, they are out there (and hell, if we're going to go that way, I'd rather read a good book than watch a high concept drama). But sometimes after a long week of dealing with reality and stupid people, I just want to watch giant robots fighting, with explosions. Or a sappy space opera that uses a brewery as the innards of a spaceship. And I'm glad people are making those films, too.

I grew up on the original Star Trek, and saw Star Wars the week it came out in '77. And I've seen each of the films for both franchises since.

Nangleator
02-01-2012, 02:02 PM
Chris V and others, the digs at Mr. Lucas aren't blind anger or jealousy. We're frustrated at easily-foreseen and correctable flaws in his body of work.

If you have a string of films, you have ultimate control over your next work, and all the world tells you you are a terrible writer... then hire someone good to write for you! Yeah, he has the choice of doing it himself, and he does. Doesn't mean we have to love it when it's bad.

He doesn't do the surfacing and texturing, does he? Hand animating? That's creative work! If you ask him why, he'll say he's no good at it. But he won't take that advice about the writing.

Chris V
02-01-2012, 02:16 PM
His writing and producing did good enough to make him a success, which is better than most of us can say. I feel the same way about the Transformers stuff. They don't all have to be "Gone With the Wind." Do I like all his work? No. Do I care that it's not all perfect? No. Should I care? I don't see why. I liek enough of it and understand his role in the industry, and what he ultimately made possible for a lot of people.

The main points were him being successful and doing it for the money, which I can't blame him for at all. Actualy, there were a lot of different points bandied about in the thread, and I should have posted individual responses to each of them to be clearer. ;)

aidenvfx
02-01-2012, 02:32 PM
From what i saw in his last interview with Jon Stewart is looked a bit fed up with the industry/market side of thing just and wanted to do his thing, period.

I think we will see more and more of this. Francis Ford Copalla has already done this, then there is Kevin Smith who with Red State showed what can be done in the U.S. on a small budget and make it into the black.

erikals
02-01-2012, 03:44 PM
But sometimes after a long week of dealing with reality and stupid people, I just want to watch giant robots fighting, with explosions...

sure, as long as it's not Star Wars 1, 2 or 3...
Lucas fell asleep, don't blame us for expressing that...

 

lwanmtr
02-01-2012, 03:45 PM
There is an unsubstantiated rumor that Lucas thinks about remaking 4-6 to 'fit better' with 1-3

The special editions of Star Wars were not worth it.... opening scene..flat stardestroyer rolls past....lol. And im sorry...but in my mind Han will always fire first at Greedo.

erikals
02-01-2012, 03:55 PM
There is an unsubstantiated rumor that Lucas thinks about remaking 4-6 to 'fit better' with 1-3

it must be the other way around... :/

 

erikals
02-01-2012, 03:59 PM
never mind, wrong thread...

meanwhile...> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z3r9X8OahA

 

dblincoe
02-01-2012, 06:26 PM
<sarcasm>
I read some of the articles about his retirement. He says it took 23 years to make this film...really? Another marketing ploy. Hollywood is the only place in the world they offer how much it took to make a product or how long? Have you ever heard an automobile company telling you how much it actually costs to make a car? Why? Because what they tell you it takes to make a film is hype/marketing. Over inflated numbers to get you to think that since the spent so much it must be good. Just like he didn't spend 23 years on making a film. He had an idea about 23 years ago while working on something else. Then he slept on it some, did a Star Wars film, Indiana film, Star Wars TV shows, Indiana TV Shows, redid Star Wars, resurrected Indiana again, and started more Star Wars films...worked on Red Tails and now he is making Star Wars into 3D.

The only reason he would tell you that he worked on Red Tails for 23 years is for the same reason Cameron told you it took 20+ years to bring Avatar to the screen. Marketing. 23 years in the making...must be spectacular.
</sarcasm>

Now that is off my chest... Red Tails looks awesome. Hope the story is as well as the visuals look. My real problem with Lucas is he is a great producer and should stay as such. His dialogue and directing is pretty one dimensional...flat. Don't know if I could do better, but it's not called "BlincoeArts" is it?

lwanmtr
02-01-2012, 07:12 PM
Lucas is a good businessman...kept the mechandising rights to Star Wars (which got some 20th c folks fired...lol)...he's produced stuff that fans want to see...ok, so people wanted episode-7 more than episode-1...and indy-4 (we wont even talk about that thing)...

Not sure why the 3-d thing to Star Wars...i mean, really? Who really wants that? Other 2-d to 3-d conversions I've seen looked kinda bad to me...

Lucas talks about how he's tired of his fans starting to get mad at him...well it's the stupid things like that they're mad about.... Laserdisc transfers for the Original versions made alot of folks mad (including me)...

He's trying to drum up money, without really creating anymore..and thats why the fans are mad nowadays

Dexter2999
02-01-2012, 08:10 PM
He's trying to drum up money, without really creating anymore..and thats why the fans are mad nowadays


Many are just mad because he is messing with something that was a treasured part of people's past.

People went to see the original STAR WARS dozens of times. People (like me) stood in line for three hours or more in the summer sun to see STAR WARS. And that very specific film that was a pivotal movie in history of film is being changed. And people don't like that.

He sees it as his creation to change at will.
They see it as part of their lives to be treasured not changed.

To be honest, there is room for both. I'm quite sure there is room on a Blu-ray for an original and an updated "Directors cut" release.

jasonwestmas
02-01-2012, 08:32 PM
What gets me hopped up are the really good premises out there (Star Wars included) that get totally ruined with an awful script and/or directing. . .and an agenda to sell more toys and happy meals before anything else. . . oh and characters that someone's niece happened to like so we MUST add it. ;)

erikals
02-02-2012, 05:25 AM
it's like that guy said

"in fact, the first Star Wars that was made is so genius it makes me wonder if George had anything to do with it..."

 

erikals
02-02-2012, 05:50 AM
if fixing needs to be done, it's not that hard...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j6YAmElKls#t=5m35s

jasonwestmas
02-02-2012, 08:19 AM
if fixing needs to be done, it's not that hard...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j6YAmElKls#t=5m35s

haha, peekaboo!

lwanmtr
02-02-2012, 02:04 PM
hehe

dblincoe
02-02-2012, 02:18 PM
What gets me hopped up are the really good premises out there (Star Wars included) that get totally ruined with an awful script and/or directing. . .and an agenda to sell more toys and happy meals before anything else. . . oh and characters that someone's niece happened to like so we MUST add it. ;)

Definitely that and the business plan that Hollywood would rather remake/retell than come up with something totally origional.

Cryonic
02-02-2012, 03:01 PM
Definitely that and the business plan that Hollywood would rather remake/retell than come up with something totally origional.

Why be original when remakes are still profitable and require less advertising effort...

jasonwestmas
02-02-2012, 03:44 PM
Why be original when remakes are still profitable and require less advertising effort...

Ahhhh, this is why competition independent from HW is necessary.

Nemoid
02-04-2012, 05:49 AM
IMO, Lucas has his merits. SW was the first movie i ever seen in theatre when i was 5 or so. It was a fantastic experience, even due to my age, btw. However, having seen alot of movies in my life, afterwards, i can understand how SW at the time put together many things into a way never done before.

Ok there has beem 2001 before SW, with good pratical fx and surely it is a source of inspiration for SW realism and beliavability, but SW added a whole lot of things, to tell what it actually is a fairy tale, for kids, but told with fantastic visuals and a great level of believability.

He had right idea at right time.

Lucas recovered what cinema of the time had lost: innocence it had in the 40 and 50, the so called "sense of wonder" and this was necessary at that time.
He pushed practical effects to a new level, mainly stop motion.

He had the cleverness of gathering a great team to do all the fx the movie needed: they were great artists and pioneers and this helped him to put his vision on screen.

he also had the good idea to build up that team and create ILM, enhancing level of both practical and then CG fx for movies. Gave right opportunities at the right people in pionieristic times.

Its way too easy now saying he could have done better. He did his best and made the movie even with colleagues telling him it was s$$t. Well, it was not s$$t at all, since audience liked alot. :)

In general, he is not the best director around, nor the best writer for sure, but he however made the movies, he created his universe, characters and so on, and all of them work quite well.

What can be criticized now is how he maybe should not completely write or direct by himself, but give space to better directors and screenplayers using his characters to better tell his stories.

Doing that all by himself, being not a great writer/director, gives him too much power and since creativity in his case was really more pushed by need, now that he can do whatever he likes, there's too much control and less free creativity, this is why the new stuff doesn't work so well as old trilogy.

Mr Rid
02-04-2012, 04:46 PM
"I was working under the assumption that the film will be a disaster and it wouldnt be promoted and will just die a horrible death."

Its astonishing that the highest grossing http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/records/ (see adjusted Top 20), and most popular movie of all time opened in just 32 theatres (Avatar opened in 3450), and was directed by a filmmaker who had never worked on a set before, "hated storytelling" and was "not into plots." Lucas was actually extremely depressed and dissappointed over the production of Star Wars as it was plagued with problems, budget compromises, equipment failures, constant studio pressure and haggling, weather problems (the Tunisian Sahara location had its first major rain in 50 years), and British crew stopped working dead at 5:30 each day regardless. The hell he went thru is why he never wanted to direct the sequels or any movie ever again. Little about Star Wars' production turned out like what he was imagining, including the now famous special effects. It was much too ambitious for the budget and a miracle it was ever green lit (2 and half years into major development, and after United Artist and Universal had passed on development), mainly due to Lucas' breakout success of Graffitti (a top ten gosser) and his low salary- $200,000 to direct, write and produce. Few people could visualize what Lucas was going for, and Fox heads were constantly poised to pull the plug as the budget ballooned from $8 to $11 million. George collapsed with chest pains at the end of a nightmare production and ILM had spent half the FX budget making amazing toys but only had one shot in the can.

THX and Graffitti had at most 40 people on the payroll, while SW had 950. Lucas would get dumb memos from the execs like 'Shouldnt the Wookie have pants?' Production went several weeks over schedule and the first cut was a disaster. If producer Alan Ladd had not defended Lucas' vision every step of the way or had been replaced as often happens (as Ladd had produced another bomb during production), SW would have been dropped like a thermal detonator. I only read of two people who were impressed with the early screenings- Spielberg ('its going to make a lot of money'), and one Fox VP was in tears saying,' 'This is the greatest film I have ever seen.' But most of the execs and Lucas' friends (including Scorsese, DePalma, Coppola, Ballard, Milius, Barwood, Robbins) were all shaking their heads. Fox hated the title. Key story influences were Castenada, Joseph Cambell, and The Meaning and Importance of Fairy Tales by Bruno Bettelheim, on the script that was re-written four times (Lucas considered an all Japanese or all little people cast).

"I expected not to ever make a hit movie. That wasn't my agenda."

To me, the most interesting thing Lucas did was how he videotaped any dogfight scenes from old WWII movies that he came across on TV (1973, before video stores). He then transferred the footage to 16mm to make a rough edit of his key vision of a dogfight in space. As far as I know this was the first animatic, which ILM followed closely. For me, the TIE fighter attack is still the funnest scene in any of the movies (who hasn't imagined rocking around in one of those turrets, blasting bad guys out of the void?) and epitomizes the thrill of SW (Lucas refers to the scene as the most representative of him). Blended perfectly with Williams' rousing score, its incredible how dynamic and tightly edited it was for the time, and its still exciting now. Before that, every shot of a spaceship in a movie was just lazily panning by, usually with static camera. When Dykstra saw the animatic it spurred him to develop the specialized motion control system he had been pondering, which would revolutionize effects, and is still widely used today.

ILM began in a warehouse in Van Nuys with no air conditioner, where one of the SW model makers Grant McCune is still working today. Kubrick's 2001 had 205 FX shots with 18 months dedicated exclusively to FX, with $6.5mil out of total budget of $10.5mil in 1967. SW had 365 shots to be completed over 2 years with an FX budget of $2.3mil. Dykstra was the only one saying it could be done.

"I have come to the conclusion there is a force larger than the individual. It is controlled by the individuals, and it controls them. All I'm saying is that the pure soul is connected to a larger energy field that you would begin to understand if you went all the way back and saw yourself in the purest sense."

ILM barely completed the final effects shots a few weeks before the May 1st opening. Ratings board males fell asleep in it. At a screening for the board of directors, only two loved it, the rest were neutral to hating it. But at the first audience screening, people stood up, screaming, and applauding from the beginning shot and all the way thru to the end. Producer Ladd was in tears for the first time at a movie. The novelization was the fastest sellout of a sci-fi book Ballantine had ever published. It was the biggest opening day ever in 50 years of Grauman's Chinese theater. I've never seen another movie's first theatrical run last anywhere near to a full year (in Dallas, & Jedi houses were empty at six months where I was projectionist). After Ridley Scott saw SW he said he realized 'I'm not even in the same universe as this guy.' His next films were Alien and Bladerunner. A truck driver named James Cameron saw it and thought, 'well if I'm gonna do this I'd better get going.' SW was the only time sequel rights and half of the merchandising went to one person. His success allowed Lucas to finance much of Empire with his own money, keep control, and move operations the hell away from Hollywood.

"I made seven movies in film school while everybody else was complaining that they couldnt make movies because they didnt have cameras, that they didnt have film. Well, those people are still stuck. They didnt realize that all you have to do is just do it."

bobakabob
02-04-2012, 06:12 PM
Very interesting post, Mr Rid, especially the bit about Ridley Scott.

Not sure what all the fuss is about Lucas selling out though. Wasn't Star Wars always intended to unashamedly target a mass audience? Arthouse it ain't. Have only ever seen The Empire Strikes Back on release one rainy afternoon in a cinema in Leicester Square and loved the roller coaster ride but it didn't pretend to be anything other than popcorn. Alien really is in a different universe.

Mr Rid
02-04-2012, 06:35 PM
Lucas distanced himself by setting up Skywalker Ranch in San Rafael, and on Star Wars he set up ILM apart from the studio (and hired specialists that union workers could not fill the shoes of), because he saw the Hollywood system as distasteful and threatening, that is was not about creativity but about making money.

For me, the most impressive thing about Lucas was his original intent for Star Wars, from an interview back when he was making it. If I had read him saying anything like this now now, I wouldnt believe it. But he specifically 'aimed a mythological fantasy feel-good movie at 12 to 20 year olds, so kids could feel good and have a more productive life.' Its remarkable because that was exactly the effect it had on me and my friends, instilling a core inspiration to follow our bliss and hopefully continue spreading that positive creative spirit we felt as kids, just as Lucas was in inspired by heroic tales of Flash Gordon, Westerns and pirate movies as a kid. Lucas was tuned into a pure source back then and Star Wars wound up profoundly resonating with all ages and cultures. Disney fails at this, but Pixar is able to consistently pull it off (although I think Cars 2 dropped the ball, I have no interest in seeing). SW inspired so many filmmakers working today.

Star Wars is one of many great examples of how studio suits can never be certain about what will succeed and should never pretend like they are.

shrox
02-04-2012, 08:46 PM
I saw a documentary on PBS about how difficult the production of Star Wars was. Carrie Fisher kept telling herself, "if I complain, they'll just hire Jodi Foster".

inquisitive
02-05-2012, 02:32 AM
I wonder if all of you haters (remember, if the shoe fits, wear it) could post a link to what you have created (not worked on, I mean what 'you' have created, your own idea, your own dream project), your world, characters, etc.

I think that would put into perspective your opinion about how your efforts compare to those of another artist, and then perhaps we can make an intelligent decision to hear you out. :)

Personally Starwars changed my life, and up to this day continues to change my life, I am most grateful to George Lucas, as I am to Steve Jobs, John Lasseter and many others that help create the magic (could even be some of you!).

I think any artists should have a choice to change their work whenever they feel like it, if they so desire.

You must remember that a lot of times when the ideas strike, the funding is not there, you are poor, the tech doesnt exist (or its too expensive) so you must compromise to create something.. so I don't see anything wrong with changing it to ones original vision at a later time.. some may not like but hey you are the artists right, you must stay true to yourself, it is what makes you who you are. Artists in other fields do it to.

I am still in the dreaming stage (but nonetheless, still inspired by what I have seen and continue to see). Saw Red Tails, loved it for what it is (not for what some people want to make it out to be), and really looking forward to watch the SW series in 3D.

erikals
02-05-2012, 06:11 AM
"I wonder if all of you haters..."

that's an idiotic comment, as it doesn't bear any truth. :'[

 

jasonwestmas
02-05-2012, 09:40 AM
"I wonder if all of you haters..."

that's an idiotic comment, as it doesn't bear any truth. :'[

 

Haters of ultimate crap yes, not haters of people. :D


People like Lucas have the financial power and the connections to make the best films the world. So when he makes things like Episode I etc. I find that very disappointing and disgusting in a way. Fortunately it does still help the technology behind the films develop (in a loose cannon sort of way) so there is a silver lining regardless. P

People like Lucas, have the power to make their own Hollywood but without the nature that plagues it, yet he doesn't seem to know how to break away from that Nature. . .till now?

dblincoe
02-05-2012, 10:28 AM
I wonder if all of you haters (remember, if the shoe fits, wear it) could post a link to what you have created (not worked on, I mean what 'you' have created, your own idea, your own dream project), your world, characters, etc.

I think that would put into perspective your opinion about how your efforts compare to those of another artist, and then perhaps we can make an intelligent decision to hear you out. :)

Personally Starwars changed my life, and up to this day continues to change my life, I am most grateful to George Lucas, as I am to Steve Jobs, John Lasseter and many others that help create the magic (could even be some of you!).

I think any artists should have a choice to change their work whenever they feel like it, if they so desire.

You must remember that a lot of times when the ideas strike, the funding is not there, you are poor, the tech doesnt exist (or its too expensive) so you must compromise to create something.. so I don't see anything wrong with changing it to ones original vision at a later time.. some may not like but hey you are the artists right, you must stay true to yourself, it is what makes you who you are. Artists in other fields do it to.

I am still in the dreaming stage (but nonetheless, still inspired by what I have seen and continue to see). Saw Red Tails, loved it for what it is (not for what some people want to make it out to be), and really looking forward to watch the SW series in 3D.

Yes, Star Wars changed the industry. Lucas created a revolution that changed how movies were made. What he created in ILM/Lucasfilm was an environment that invented technology to make what we all take for granted today. None of us will really ever experience the noise introduced into each layer of film stock trying to composite models, with backgrounds, actors and effects. We all get to enjoy the advancement of digital compositing, modeling etc...thanks to Lucas's achievements.

Lucas gets to enjoy those achievements too, yet he relies to heavily on them, failing to find writers and acting directors to match his creative genius.

Saying if we hate/criticize we should post our creations in fair turn is like saying that since we haven't created a Hollywood blockbuster we shouldn't criticize, because obviously we don't know enough to get it done.

I may not be a chef, but I know good food. I may not be plastic surgeon but I can spot botched surgeries.

"If it smells like fish it's probably bad fish!" Lucas has had some stinkers. Even when those stinkers had great special effects and technical achievements.

shrox
02-05-2012, 10:52 AM
...he's produced stuff that fans want to see...

And crap I didn't want to see, like Ewoks, obvious puppets, and Jar Jar Binks, etc.

dblincoe
02-05-2012, 11:35 AM
Hehe... well I find the whole concept of "you're only allowed to criticize if you can do better" to be incredibly childish as well. What a funny, but pointless idea. :)

Yeah, more than half of this forum would be nonexistent, because most of us are not programers yet have faulted in critiquing Newtek's bugs.

Waves of light
02-05-2012, 11:51 AM
@MR Rid: Wish I had the time to post all that. Spot on.

There is an extra DVD with the box set that just covers all the 'makings of', and a lot of what you said is in your post. Nobody believing in him, it was going to flop, FOX wanted to pull it, replace him... I believe they used 'fans' at secret pre-showings for parts of the film, thus driving the ideas and development (never heard of before). Using classical score in a major production at the time was a no-no, titles only at the end of the film....

He basically wanted it his way, and I'm soooo glad he stuck at it and did what he did. I was 3 when it was released, so wasn't able to experience it in the cinema. I did however, even whilst owning the digitally remastered versions, go and see it when cleaned and re-released at the cinemas. I can just about imagine what it must have been like in 77 when the star destroyer flew past in the open scene at the premiere.

I understand that there are lots of people who don't like the films, or wished there were ways that certain parts could be changed (I have already stated this in my previous posts - Phantom Menace!). But GL dug his feet in and succeeded, and changed the VFX industry forever.

Disney ditched Lasseter because he was doing too many 'innovative things' stepping on toes, but because of Lucas (ok, he reportely had to sell Lucasfilm Computer Graphics to Steve Jobs) we now have PIXAR.

Where would we be if the Chairman at Bloomsbury hadn't handed his 8 year old daughter a manuscript about a small boy going off to Hogwarts, written by a 28 year old mother of one, living in a Scottish Council house?

These films have worked for one reason, and one reason only... the audience have loved them (or their preceding books). Who are we to argue?

lwanmtr
02-05-2012, 01:46 PM
The audience has always loved Star Wars (despite ewoks and jarjar binks)....It captured the magic of classic storytelling and kept up good quality (wookie christmas, not withstanding).

I read everything I could about Star Wars and Lucas back then, bought al those 'making of' type books and such. He was a big inspiration....

That being said, my criticism is in his choices of late....

Red Tails - good idea, and I want to see it.

Star Wars - 3D - bad idea....There is no reason to do it, I dont know anyone who is interested in it. More fans want Episode-7

Burying the original version of Star Wars - b*tch move....ok, I have no problems with the special editions existing...but to pretend the one that insipred many of us doesnt even exist is stupid...and from a marketing standpoint, he'll make alot by releasing it on Bluray. I didnt even buy the DVD's until I heard the original was going to be included...which again was like a middle finger to the fans to just slap the laserdisc version on there and not even format it to work on a widescreen.

I do not hate the man, just his decisions lately. If he is really tired of Star Wars, then he should open it up to allow others to take it up.

Dexter2999
02-05-2012, 01:58 PM
If he is really tired of Star Wars, then he should open it up to allow others to take it up.

I don't know that I can even agree with that.

If it is something that is that dear you don't just "open it up" to let people go crazy with it.

While I see the potential for greatness (like that Italian Star Wars fan film) there is also potential for schlock to be made.

There has to be a measure in place to screen out the schlock from hitting the public at large to keep some sort of integrity (you don't know how hard it is for me to type that while taking Episodes I, II, and III into account.)

lwanmtr
02-05-2012, 02:45 PM
I dont mean just 'release' it...but at least allow the possibility.

Yeah, I can understand your head kinda coughing as you typed that, but I get what you're saying...the last thing i would want to see is Star Wars 90210 (although Anikin was as whiny in 2 and 3)

wrightyp100
02-06-2012, 01:57 AM
Just read back a few pages. I agree that the "all the haters" comment is a bit ridiculous.

I can criticise anything I want. I don't have to Justofy it with evidence. But in my sig there is a link to the music videos Myself and a friend have made. Also, my youtube channel is there and the stuff on it is not bad. So fill your boots. Crit away.

But I won't ask you to send me a showreel in a stamped addressed envelope ;)

inquisitive
02-07-2012, 11:56 PM
these two go together - "I wonder if all you haters.." & "if the shoe fits.." if you think you are a hater of course you will react :) (because you feel you are being called one).

I just wonder why such hate towards some directors choices, to me it made perfect sense to know if those of you that criticize know what you are talking about because you have experienced the process yourself or just because you "think" your way of handling X development issue would be better than X director, without practical experience.

In projects of this nature (this and other industries) it's an uphill battle most of the time, as an artist you have to stick to your dream, and push ahead. At times you really have to fight to tell the story the way you envisioned it.


A few years back I started a project (not animation) and people crawled out of the woodwork to tell me how it should be done, how i should spend my time and money to do their dream basically. They didn't want to step up to the plate and do their dream, but instead where trying to get someone else to do it for them ;)

I also read a few years back a few posts written by someone here that got lucky to sell his idea, and started production, project never went anywhere because he allowed 'movie exec notes' to modify little by little the story to the point that it no longer had any of the elements that they liked and the project was shelved.


re: faulting Lightwave because you are not a programmer - not applicable.
Faulting Lightwave because you are a Maya user and have never used Lightwave - applicable

wrightyp100
02-08-2012, 02:04 AM
I feel I can have a go at mr Lucas, not because he ruined "my dream" or anything, just because the films he made were so poor. But I also have experience making shorts (admittedly not features) but loads of music videos, so i understand the process.

I also write scripts. I know my scripts are not great, but its about getting my ideas down on paper. I have a friend who is great at writing scripts, and she doctors them for me. I say be as brutal as you want. A couple came back with minor changes, a couple where massive segments were different, but way better. Why can't Jorge do this? His talents are in producing.

With his money he could hire the best in the business to write his great ideas down, and get a top quality director. Who won't do (see below)....

This shot sums up everything. Flat, dull, boring. Everything a space adventure shouldnt be.

erikals
02-08-2012, 05:54 AM
inquisitive, the word is way too harsh, that's all i'm saying.

wrightyp100
02-08-2012, 08:24 AM
So cryptic... :)

shrox
02-08-2012, 08:54 AM
I have thought about what it is actually like to make a full length movie. In making shorts it's fairly easy to keep the action going, but full-length could be tough.

dwburman
02-08-2012, 10:37 AM
Not only did Greedo not shoot first, he didn't shoot at all. :D

http://www.archive.org/details/reremaster



It's funny how limitations in technology and resources can spur creativity more than having all the funds and tools at your disposal can.

dblincoe
02-08-2012, 10:39 AM
:thumbsup:
Not only did Greedo not shoot first, he didn't shoot at all. :D

http://www.archive.org/details/reremaster

shrox
02-08-2012, 10:43 AM
Not only did Greedo not shoot first, he didn't shoot at all. :D.

It was a cloaked Klingon ship positioned just underneath the table out of sensor range.

erikals
02-08-2012, 11:03 AM
well,... what to say... :/

Phantom Menace 3D...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69ftWNg97U

no... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF_lJTGKFP0#t=4m54s%EA%9E%89)

 

dblincoe
02-08-2012, 11:13 AM
these two go together - "I wonder if all you haters.." & "if the shoe fits.." if you think you are a hater of course you will react :) (because you feel you are being called one).

I just wonder why such hate towards some directors choices, to me it made perfect sense to know if those of you that criticize know what you are talking about because you have experienced the process yourself or just because you "think" your way of handling X development issue would be better than X director, without practical experience.

In projects of this nature (this and other industries) it's an uphill battle most of the time, as an artist you have to stick to your dream, and push ahead. At times you really have to fight to tell the story the way you envisioned it.


A few years back I started a project (not animation) and people crawled out of the woodwork to tell me how it should be done, how i should spend my time and money to do their dream basically. They didn't want to step up to the plate and do their dream, but instead where trying to get someone else to do it for them ;)

I also read a few years back a few posts written by someone here that got lucky to sell his idea, and started production, project never went anywhere because he allowed 'movie exec notes' to modify little by little the story to the point that it no longer had any of the elements that they liked and the project was shelved.


re: faulting Lightwave because you are not a programmer - not applicable.
Faulting Lightwave because you are a Maya user and have never used Lightwave - applicable

My grandmother never made a movie, but she knew a stinker when she saw it. It's ridiculous to think that criticism about a director is only valid from another director. If you create for the masses then they (the masses) are your critic. He wasn't creating for his own private collection or just his producer/directing friends.

bobakabob
02-08-2012, 12:21 PM
My grandmother never made a movie, but she knew a stinker when she saw it. It's ridiculous to think that criticism about a director is only valid from another director. If you create for the masses then they (the masses) are your critic. He wasn't creating for his own private collection or just his producer/directing friends.

Very good points, it goes without saying everyone's entitled to a view. But whatever happened to constructive criticism? It's too easy to be a critic these days, slinging negative barbs hiding lazily and anonymously behind an internet avatar.

Anyway, this thread has had some very readable thought provoking contributions. Lucas might not be rated highly as a great auteur director but then like Spielberg he never had those pretensions, he just wanted to reach a mass audience with full on popcorn movies. The early ones were especially well crafted. Reading Mr Rid's contribution you see things from another perspective: Lucas for many young people Lucas was an iconic creative inspiration, a custodian of childhood who galvanised an entire industry. If you've ever tried teaching or motivating young people in education that's no mean achievement.

dblincoe
02-08-2012, 12:48 PM
Very good points, it goes without saying everyone's entitled to a view. But whatever happened to constructive criticism? It's too easy to be a critic these days, slinging negative barbs hiding lazily and anonymously behind an internet avatar.


Much too easy to be an armchair quarterback.



Anyway, this thread has had some very readable thought provoking contributions. Lucas might not be rated highly as a great auteur director but then like Spielberg he never had those pretensions, he just wanted to reach a mass audience with full on popcorn movies. The early ones were especially well crafted. Reading Mr Rid's contribution you see things from another perspective: Lucas for many young people Lucas was an iconic creative inspiration, a custodian of childhood who galvanised an entire industry. If you've ever tried teaching or motivating young people in education that's no mean achievement.

Yes, he certainly inspired me. I can remember seeing Star Wars trilogy as a kid in the movies...the first time they came out. I remember also seeing the behind the scenes documentary on tv and wanting to work at ILM. The advancements he spurred in every department of the movie making business is awesome. I might not even be interested in animation if not for his advancements years ago.

But he his a better innovator and visual story teller than a writer, imho. But then again, looking at Star Wars through the eyes of a 38 year old is a lot different than when I was six.

dsol
02-09-2012, 09:53 AM
Oops - just saw this thread. I just started a new one about Phantom Menace 3D. I saw it last night and felt compelled to make a statement via Photoshop...

http://www.digitaldistortion.net/misc/ps/EP13D_disappointment.jpg

lwanmtr
02-09-2012, 02:00 PM
Haha.....my question is...Why did you even go see it? Its the same movie, just with 3-d effects added....to make it better? Seriously, I have no interest inthe 3-d fad...alot of movies are over doing the 3-d....I hope they finally start realizing it's just another effect to be used sparingly.

jasonwestmas
02-09-2012, 02:30 PM
I think if they stopped putting human teeth inside of every alien, then the phantom menace would rock! ;)

dsol
02-09-2012, 02:57 PM
Haha.....my question is...Why did you even go see it? Its the same movie, just with 3-d effects added....to make it better? Seriously, I have no interest inthe 3-d fad...alot of movies are over doing the 3-d....I hope they finally start realizing it's just another effect to be used sparingly.

I think my memories of TPM have been softened by watching "The Phantom Edit" - which made it surprisingly watchable. I wish they'd used that cut for the 3D version. And yes, the 3D really added nothing to the film. Final Destination 5 on the other hand - now that was awesome in 3D!

lwanmtr
02-09-2012, 03:28 PM
They are watchable on tv...but to be honest, I cant see paying theatre prices to see it...and seriously not looking forward to Episode-4 in 3-d...taking 30 year old footage and applying 3d to it is really going to be a bad thing, i think

bobakabob
02-09-2012, 03:58 PM
Much too easy to be an armchair quarterback.



Yes, he certainly inspired me. I can remember seeing Star Wars trilogy as a kid in the movies...the first time they came out. I remember also seeing the behind the scenes documentary on tv and wanting to work at ILM. The advancements he spurred in every department of the movie making business is awesome. I might not even be interested in animation if not for his advancements years ago.

But he his a better innovator and visual story teller than a writer, imho. But then again, looking at Star Wars through the eyes of a 38 year old is a lot different than when I was six.

LOL. Perhaps there are a few too many too many posters who've forgotten they're not six anymore. I recently invested in a box DVD set of Lost in Space. Fond memories and occasional flashes of 60s sci-fi magic inevitably clashed with jaded disappointment. Still I'll never forget that exhilerating childhood inspiration.

shrox
02-09-2012, 04:02 PM
What was the point of Darth Maul?

Hey look! Scary guy who looks really...oh wait, scary guy died.

lwanmtr
02-09-2012, 04:21 PM
Yeah, Darth Maul wasnt really impressive in that....he should have lasted at least until the end of episode-2

shrox
02-09-2012, 04:35 PM
Was this a 3D conversion or initially shot in 3D a decade ago?

lwanmtr
02-09-2012, 04:40 PM
I'm sure its just a conversion...I would think he would have released it in 3d if it were shot that way

shrox
02-09-2012, 06:41 PM
Suck on this, princess.

lwanmtr
02-09-2012, 06:52 PM
that puts a whole new arc to the story...lol

dblincoe
02-09-2012, 08:56 PM
LOL. Perhaps there are a few too many too many posters who've forgotten they're not six anymore. I recently invested in a box DVD set of Lost in Space. Fond memories and occasional flashes of 60s sci-fi magic inevitably clashed with jaded disappointment. Still I'll never forget that exhilerating childhood inspiration.

Did you ever see the made for tv star wars mini-movies/episodes. My favorite is the Star Wars Holiday special...read about here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star_Wars_Holiday_Special

wrightyp100
02-10-2012, 01:23 AM
I'm still six. Although I did have that crushing dissapointment when I bought Neverending story on DVD. Contender for crapest movie ever. Although the only scene that save sit is where the horse dissapears into the bog. Tear jerker!

But, this is exciting! Harry Plinketts review of STPM IN THRRRRRREEEEEEEEEE DEEEEEEEEEEE

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars-the-phantom-menace-3d/

How it was meant to be seen.

lwanmtr
02-10-2012, 02:09 AM
too funny....

silviotoledo
02-21-2012, 08:27 AM
He has a lot of money and can do the films he want without the big companies. Or does he want the big companies takes the risk for him?

No sense saying will leave the industry.

But yeah, USA is still the biggest racist country in the world and this is no more related to the skin colour but it's related to money. Sorry to say that american friends.

jasonwestmas
02-21-2012, 08:51 AM
NP I'm pretty sure I can find dirt in any country. ^.^ And I think the correct word is Bigotry. You'll find that anywhere you go.

SBowie
02-21-2012, 08:52 AM
But yeah, USA is still the biggest racist country in the world and this is no more related to the skin colour but it's related to money. Sorry to say that american friends.Really? I'm not american, but I have to question the validity of that view. In your country, are paupers greeted with the same enthusiasm as the very rich? Do the doormen on 5 star hotels treat them with obsequiousness? Do bankers pull out their chairs, light their cigars and generally treat them like royalty? Does the populace frequently ignore expensive election campaigns and elect humble individuals without powerful backers? Do the churches spurn the criminally rich, decline to eulogize them, or do they greedily accept their largesse? Do everyday heroes (teachers, paramedics, police) get the same adulation from adoring fans as do movie stars and the glitterati?

I'm not defending an existing worldwide system that favors the rich to extravagant excess; I'm just pointing out that it is certainly far from being unique to america. Nor do I think it's much different there than in Botswana or Brazil, Canada or Chile, Italy or India, Monaco or Mozambique, Russia or Rwanda, Zambia or ... Xanadu. :foreheads

dsol
02-21-2012, 08:57 AM
But yeah, USA is still the biggest racist country in the world and this is no more related to the skin colour but it's related to money. Sorry to say that american friends.

Massive thread derail. US has a fractured society, but it's no more racist than others I've visited. What you might perceive as racism is more a general distrust of "outsiders". It's a very insular society on the whole. Anyway, let's not get into generalisations. It'd be like me saying all Brazilians are loudmouths!

jasonwestmas
02-21-2012, 08:59 AM
Really? I'm not american,

I thought you were north american. :D

SBowie
02-21-2012, 09:18 AM
I thought you were north american. :DYes, and I thought about that when framing my sentence, but it just seems to confuse people. Like many other words and expressions, "american" has devolved into something more limited in the minds of many, and one tires of having to explain. (A similar case is the genealogically incorrect but nevertheless deeply ingrained use of the term "anti-semitic" ... but let's not hijack this thread any further).

silviotoledo
02-21-2012, 09:51 AM
ok, I apologize for the lettering. Is really a global problem. Peace!

Cinema use to explore controversy. Maybe that's the reason Lucas is marketing his film using the fact other studios didn't finance. Well, let's see if, in the current period of less ignorance and more respect for human rights, at least in most developed countries, the film from Lucas ends up doing good box office and helping to reduce social differences generated in the legacy of years of racial malice.

And hope Lucas will back with some creative ideas. If he is pulling out maybe he's predicting the end of the major distributors as the best business and the beginning of a new kind of market.

erikals
02-21-2012, 10:04 AM
next time, please reflect more on what you write before you post it.
thanks.

silviotoledo
02-21-2012, 12:48 PM
Oh. If I reflect so much I'd be using Blender 4 years before. heheh

lwanmtr
02-21-2012, 01:50 PM
Meh..Lucas wont retire from creating movies....He's just trying to go independant....whether or not he'll get some creativity back, we'll see. If the prequels and Indy-4...and the rerereleasing of Star Wars in three-dee are any indiciation, I wont hold my breath.

I'll see Red Tails when it gets to tv..looks ok, just not enough to make me want to pay theatre prices to see it.

inquisitive
02-21-2012, 09:57 PM
I was going to say re: Silvio comment - you would have to have visited every single country and see for yourself if that which you speak of exists there and to what degree greater than your own country, in order to use such a huge paintbrush against us overhere. ;)

Not that it is entirely related but since we are so OT
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/479582.stm

shrox
02-21-2012, 10:32 PM
I was going to say re: Silvio comment - you would have to have visited every single country and see for yourself if that which you speak of exists there and to what degree greater than your own country, in order to use such a huge paintbrush against us overhere. ;)

Not that it is entirely related but since we are so OT
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/479582.stm

I've been around. We look bad on the outside...