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mis
01-17-2012, 12:31 PM
i was sitting today wondering.

first i thought , hmmm sad i as hobbyist just cant go buy lw 11 do to lag of money ..... :(

then i thought

hmmmm

we are perhaps entitled to more updates on lw 10 still ?

i meen looking at the history

we have lightwave 5.0 then 5.5 then 5.6
pay 495$ for update
then we get lw 6.0 and 6.5
pay 495$ for update
then we get 7 and 7.5
pay 495$ for update
then we get 8.0 8.01. 8.2 and 8.5
pay 495$ for update
then we get 9.0 9.2 9.3 9.3.1 9.5 .9.6. 9.61

Waa great value for money

pay 495$+some extra for update
so we get 10 + the view at core

Bang core is killed and we get 10.1

and all the suddenly
pay 695$ for update
and we can get lw 11

so for 8 we got 4 bugfix/upgrades
for 9 we got 6 bugfix/upgrades
Waa now its looking real good value for money

then 10...... 1 patch now look heres lw 11 and a prize raise

Did i miss somthing here ?

What do you think guys n girls

is 1 patch what we get this time and then pay again for 11
or is there somthing on the road still or whats going on

dont know if i make any sense but but please reflect on this
as its seems theres still alot of bug rapports on 10.1

GraphXs
01-17-2012, 12:53 PM
Times have changed, in someways I wished nt had at least kept the lw 9 prices. They do however have to compete and give us more compelling. Features. I feel lw 11 is doing that so I'm happy with nts path and future. We did get spoiled before with updates but now it looks like we r getting more features and a more stable product. I also feel the price is good for the features and if it gives nt more dollars to put into developing lw more it a win win!

mis
01-17-2012, 12:56 PM
well might give newtek money to dev
might also make em loose money cause extra 200 $can make a huge difference for a lot of hobbyists in when / how often they can upgrade there home product

one the other half i think

one thing is prize raise for also making new great features
but still
shouldnt some of the bugfixing in 10.1 be looked into first.
so the people who invested in 10 get some more stable value for money

Pavlov
01-17-2012, 02:15 PM
this has been discussed so many times.
Low price was because Lw couldnt compete development-wise in these times. Again, low price was bringing LW down and down.
Development costs. Good development costs even more. Good and fast, more again.
So, i'm glad NT raised the price; this is the only way to get a pro level app, which is anyway cheaper than most ones. Aiming at pros means staying competitive.
For hobbyists, NT should really think at a different licensing, i.e. a lower price (600 $ ?), so they can use it anyway.

Paolo

mcotner
01-17-2012, 02:26 PM
I'm another hobbyist and I think that to stay competitive NT needs to spend some money on dev so I'm happy to pay. Interface/Workflow cleanup/enhancement for the big guys is great and I think they remember us small guys too with every release.

It would be nice to go to blender folks and say we have water sim and can support millions of particles as well. Adding great dynamics is a very good step in the right direction.

Having said all that . . . things I would like . . .

1. Take the dongle of my keychain. I use LW on each of my 5 computers and am not crazy about taking the dongle with me everywhere.

2. Better particle effects so I can wow my blender colleagues. :P

After 18+ years I still love Lightwave, but find myself using blender more lately.

'njoy,
Mark

UltraViolet
01-17-2012, 02:32 PM
Well, Newtek is gonna do what Newtek is gonna do, regardless of what some of us want ... That kind of politics (just few updates between major versions, that's what DAZ does with Carrara, for example) is usually sign that there is not a lots of new buyers but plenty of faithful followers who will upgrade just to be in the loop (drop in the bucket for companies BTW) :devil:

That is exactly why I recently decided not to upgrade LW anymore, I stopped because I suspect that LW is probably never gonna get standard view port navigation, UV unwrapping, CC sub-d's and most likely never become unified app with perhaps unbiased rendering as well.

I finally realized that this is what I want and not what majority of LW users want ... Well, too bad for me, I guess, since the only reason I upgraded to 10 was the CORE promise, that's life, haha, no more money for you Newtek, my mistake for believing in you :thumbsup:

Wade
01-17-2012, 05:04 PM
After 15 years or so an upgrade goes from 495.00 to 695.00 I don't think this is a huge jump. For a hobby I see where it might pinch a bit. But then just skip an upgrade as NT does allow you to do so with no added cost! :thumbsup:

Consider that if they are now on a yearly upgrade you can upgrade 10 to 12 a year from now and average the cost to $347.50.
Not to bad really and at a faster pace than upgrades have come out in the last 15 years.

Just my 2 cents.

Ryan Roye
01-17-2012, 05:56 PM
I look at software the same way I look at hardware:

Tomorrow is always the best time to buy. As such, I'm always a few step behind the tech curve but I'm willing to tolerate it since it saves me so much in the long run.

meatycheesyboy
01-17-2012, 06:00 PM
That kind of politics (just few updates between major versions, that's what DAZ does with Carrara, for example) is usually sign that there is not a lots of new buyers but plenty of faithful followers who will upgrade just to be in the loop (drop in the bucket for companies BTW) :devil:

I'm curious to know what research you have to support this. Looking at version histories of Max, Softimage, and Maya it isn't uncommon for releases to have no point release between the ordinal versions. They sometimes have one and rarely have more than that.

So, then by your statement, none of these three softwares have increased their userbase over the years?

I'm not saying you are wrong, I really have no idea, I just don't see the correlation between number of point releases and new users.

http://wiki.cgsociety.org/index.php/3ds_Max_History
http://wiki.cgsociety.org/index.php/Maya#Version_release_history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softimage_(company)

Sensei
01-17-2012, 06:11 PM
Major or minor version change depends on features that have been added.
See what was added in LW v10.0- real time interactive renderer..
See what was added in LW v11.0- instancing and bullet dynamics..
The more stable initial major release, the less sense in just fixing bugs in minor-free updates.
Both LW v10.0 and LW v11.0 were very stable and quite bug free even in alpha/beta stage IMHO in comparison to the LW v8.0 or LW v9.0, especially 8.0.. ;)

Shnoze Shmon
01-17-2012, 07:12 PM
"ENTITLED"

Misuse of that word turns my stomach.


A rich man shows up at the door of a middle class man's home one day and hands him a $100 bill. "Why" asks the middle class man. "I just wanted to help you out" says the rich man.
The next week he shows up again and gives the same man a $100 bill with the same reason. This continues week by week for about 6 months. Then one week the rich man goes to the middle class mans neighbor and gives him a $100 bill.
As the rich man is leaving the middle class man stands on his porch cursing, shaking his fist, and shouting "HOW DARE YOU GIVE HIM MY $100 BILL!"

...After all he was ENTITLED.

meatycheesyboy
01-17-2012, 07:22 PM
Except, the original poster didn't misuse the word. He didn't suggest that we are entitled to another update but rather asked if we are to which the answer is clearly, no, we are not.

Mr. Limpet
01-17-2012, 07:42 PM
$695?
OK, I get that raising the price helps keep up development.
But being that I signed up with the so called Core thing when I upgraded to 10.0
and thought I was getting something regarding special upgrade pricing I am not understanding the new policy.

The number one feature problem for my workflow is the lack of connectivity to
After Effects as C4D has. Has that been addressed yet? Is it addressed in 11?

Because the new pricing pushed me awfully hard to C4D even if C4D is more expensive.
It might just make more sense to pay the extra expense to go there.
(Maxon has been running sales in the summer with up to half off the purchase price)

Edit: I just went through the new features for 11 and indeed it looks like a nice upgrade.
But I could not see anything there allowing you to link an After Effects camera to a Lightwave camera.
Is that the kind of thing they seem to be implying can be made by third parties with the inclusion of
Python in 11?

GraphXs
01-17-2012, 08:59 PM
$695?
OK, I get that raising the price helps keep up development.
But being that I signed up with the so called Core thing when I upgraded to 10.0
and thought I was getting something regarding special upgrade pricing I am not understanding the new policy.

The number one feature problem for my workflow is the lack of connectivity to
After Effects as C4D has. Has that been addressed yet? Is it addressed in 11?

Just go buy the AELINK plugin!
http://www.vfxwizard.com/software/lightwave-to-after-effects-exporter.html

Itz Great!

Mr. Limpet
01-17-2012, 09:43 PM
OK GraphXs, took a look at that and it seems pretty good. Need it to go both ways as frequently you start out by composing a graphic in After Effects and then want to add 3D content to the animation. You mentioned that was coming around end of October in a post made last September. Was that October of 2011 or 2012?

Also, I did some poking around the online store and it appears I can upgrade for $495, not $695. But I am not sure, there seems to be typos in the qualifying upgrade purchase dates and it's unclear almost everywhere Newtek has posted this information exactly what they mean.

For instance, one upgrade is listed for people who bought 10 between 4/1/09 and 6/15/09. Really? A two and a half month window? Yet when I put the 11 pre-release upgrade into the cart it seems as though I qualify for this upgrade price. So does it really mean 4/1/09 through 6/15/11?

Strange.

Mr. Limpet
01-17-2012, 09:54 PM
Just a general comment though about 11's features.

There seem to be a lot of new features that push the high end of render times.

I appreciate that these new features are cool and all, but many of us have time
constraints that make most of these new features useless.

After Effects connectivity is far more important than the Newtek team understands.
C4D's AE connectivity is the main driving force behind their growth in recent years.

Among "motion graphic" designers, C4D has become the standard.

For software that started out being packaged with a video product it seems absurd
that another company has gained so much market share leveraging features that should
have been in Lightwave years ago.

mis
01-17-2012, 11:57 PM
Shnoze shmon

Entitled i see what you meen and its not the 11 updates ime refering to
as much as the fact that it seems alot of people
have post serious bugs in 10, and 10.1
that they normaly would have attentet to before setting out 11

go check the car aa in this post for that matter

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=125072&page=3

just to state an example geo n posted

but lets put it in your turms.
If you bought a peugeot 206 and after few months
peugeot realize that they have some serious flaws in the 206
but they dont call you in to get it fixed(like they normaly do)
they just skip you and send out a peugeot 207 a year after......

SBowie
01-18-2012, 05:53 AM
Speaking just for myself here:


Really? A two and a half month window? ... Strange.Not at all. It was a promotion which included a reduced price that extends some years into the future. You got it, or you didn't. (If, in fact, I got it and didn't actually qualify, I don't think I'd be trumpeting it.)


After Effects connectivity is far more important than the Newtek team understands.It's probably folly to imagine you can determine what someone else, much less what a seasoned group of industry professionals "understands". You might say it's 'far more important to you', or perhaps 'NewTek seems to be undervaluing this, imho'. Clearly, with their obviously much deeper insight into what they can do in a certain timeframe, they have settled on priorities that differ from yours.


ime refering to as much as the fact that it seems alot of people have post serious bugs in 10, and 10.1 that they normaly would have attentet to before setting out 11Bugfree software is, of course, imaginary. Some made much the same argument when 10 was released - that 9.x (which cycle ran on for years) still had bugs and should be 'fixed' without added cost. You can travel back through time, simply decrementing the digits, and find that trend continues indefinitely.

Lewis
01-18-2012, 06:33 AM
this has been discussed so many times.
Low price was because Lw couldnt compete development-wise in these times. Again, low price was bringing LW down and down.

While i agree with this sentiment (of price increase for better product) in general this is not proven yet, LW is still not up to the competition (in some important areas promised before almost 3 years now) so it has to be seen will price increase do that in timely fashion or we will still lag behind ;)).

As for entitled for "more" well it's up to NT to decide what we can get in our price upgrades and by now it's obvious that times of getting point upgrades packed with features for free are over. Now it's all about "take it or leave it" attitude (NT to users) and we can't do much there either than get along or move along, simple as that.

Pavlov
01-18-2012, 06:52 AM
well, i agree we're still behind competition in most areas. BUT you have to start from somewhere. So, asking more money and showing an attitude we didnt see in years is a good start, imho. BTW it need things to follow; i give my money happily BUT i clearly expect faster and better development than we saw in last decade.

Paolo

netstile123
01-18-2012, 05:30 PM
I agree . I myself do not have the money for the upgrade at the time and think I missed the window for my core fixed prise that in my opinion I think is totally silly. The entire Core promo and reason why I purched into lightwave was the nice price with bullit and the real time render was also a great factor. So now I have put in I don't no how many hours of trainning with lightwave but there is no way I can aford an upgrade at this time. I am at the same cross road and going to start a savings fund for my next animation software and I have always admired C4d and looking at the cost is but a small turn over the hill If I am going to save for an upgrade to lightwave to 11. I myself am going to start working with C4d and saving for my next purchase and if a great sale comes I will at least be prepaired for a purchase desition. As for lightwave? I am not sure If I am ready for any more financial surprises.

Cryonic
01-18-2012, 07:54 PM
If you bought into CORE early, then the upgrades are $395. If you bought into CORE before the 10.x was actually released, then the upgrades are $495. Else they are $695. From what I read, the locked in price is good as long as you buy the new version within 3 months of its actual release. So that does give you a window of time to buy and keep your locked in price.