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Ken B
01-06-2012, 01:41 PM
Hello,

I was trying to figure out if it's possible to have an object that uses a single surface or material and a multi-UV layout, or multiple UV maps with separate image maps. A multi-UV layout would have uv tiles that go outside the 0-1 range.
I've tried different approaches in the node editor to remap the offset, but have had no luck. I've also tried mixing images with the color mixer, but can't keep the different image maps from effecting each other.

Any suggestions or even a confirmation that this can't be done is appreciated.

Thanks

Ken

Danner
01-06-2012, 03:44 PM
I can't wrap my head around what you want.. You can use multiple UVs with a single surface. I think what you need is a way of combining the two to do what you want. A better description of what you are after would help.

Ken B
01-06-2012, 04:21 PM
I've created a single UV map that spans several UV tiles, instead of the single 0-1 range. I'd like to place different image maps on each tile and have them appear on a single surface without affecting the others; meaning-no overlay of one image over the other.
The other acceptable solution would be to have each desired tile as a different UV map but still use one surface.
The way I'm working it now is to have a material or surface for every tile and image. I'd like to try and condense this.

thanks

http://www.brilliant-creations.com/UV_tiles.jpg

Danner
01-06-2012, 09:09 PM
I think I understand now.. the thing is.. an image always represents 0 to 1 UV space, so technically you cannot have an image outside this space, ever.
There are several ways around this, you could instead of going from 0-1 on each segment go from 0 to .2 So that segment only uses the first 20% of the composited image that contains several smaller ones. The next segment goes from .2 to .4 and so on. It doesn't matter if the image and UV look stretched. It will render and export perfectly.

You could also use a single UV but with a different image and surface for each segment. But i'm sensing you are trying to avoid that.

Ken B
01-06-2012, 09:56 PM
Yes, I was trying to avoid a different image and surface for each tile. I've been doing it that way, and it works, but I thought I could simplify things since adjusting settings across many surfaces is tedious.

Thank you for your input

Surrealist.
01-08-2012, 03:23 AM
I think it would be helpful to know what your end product is supposed to be.

I am pretty sure that the way you are going about it is how it is done in apps like Mudbox where you can have multiple UV tiles/imatges and this makes a lot of sense for painting. But I think the way it translates in LightWave is that you would have one surface with multiple maps. You can do this. Each image would be assigned to a different map and layered in the Surface editor. So you'd only be adjusting one surface but each image would be assigned to the verts in the map it is associated with. So there would never be - or should bot ever be - a bleed. Although I am pretty sure you can set bleed amount manually so the images will blend by a few pixels across the UV edges. It has been a while since I have used UVs in LW but that is how I remember it.

In Mudbox, I am pretty sure it would load multiple maps as tiles, if I remember correctly.

So in LightWave, effectively you'd have what you want. But rather than one large UV tile you'd just have multiple maps. Each map would simply control where its image is mapped on the mesh.

Does this describe accurately the end result you are looking for?

probiner
01-08-2012, 05:56 AM
If you are not talking of having the same mesh mapped twice in the same UV, you can do it, but not with the UV in correct proportions, because no matter what the aspect ration of the image is, it will always be applied/sized to fit the UV Space Square (1:1)

So you have to do it the other way around (as usual :D):
1: Go to Map>Texture>Transform UV and set the U to 16,667% (100%/6 Tiles). What this is supposed to do is size all the 6 tiles into 1.
2: Use an Image Node and in UV Tiles input 6.

This way if you have a 6144x1024 (6:1) image, it will fit right.

Cheers

Ken B
01-09-2012, 11:09 AM
Hi,

Yes, the Mud Box example is accurate. The problem I'm having in LW is layering the image maps so that one map doesn't affect the colors of the others. Imaging putting multiple images in layers in photoshop; the top most images either completely covers the lower ones or the blend modes changes the apperance based on the one below it. (unless masked) I'm trying to avoid all of this.

I have made multiple uv maps instead of one big tiled one, but the same problem persists; layering MULTIPLE texture maps cleanly on one surface. I'm not refering to creating a generic surface like a rock, but specific painted maps that have to line up exactly on their respective polygons.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Don't hesitate to come up with others

Ken B
01-09-2012, 11:37 AM
Update:

I experimented with proboner's suggestion on a simple flat plane model with grid textures and may have some success:
Scaling the uv's by the percentage of the number of UV tiles and then combining all the texture maps into one large map. I found I didn't need to tile the uv's in the image node.
I'll try it on a more specific surface

Danner
01-09-2012, 11:44 AM
have to tried to set the image edge behaviour to "reset" To avoid affecting others on that same surface?

Ken B
01-09-2012, 12:15 PM
Setting the edge behavior does work if there are only 2 UV's or image maps--but beyond that--- no

So far, the scaling the UV's and combining the image maps trick seems to come closest. A bit of a workaround but the end results work.:)

Surrealist.
01-15-2012, 09:16 AM
Hi,

Yes, the Mud Box example is accurate. The problem I'm having in LW is layering the image maps so that one map doesn't affect the colors of the others. Imaging putting multiple images in layers in photoshop; the top most images either completely covers the lower ones or the blend modes changes the apperance based on the one below it. (unless masked) I'm trying to avoid all of this.

I have made multiple uv maps instead of one big tiled one, but the same problem persists; layering MULTIPLE texture maps cleanly on one surface. I'm not refering to creating a generic surface like a rock, but specific painted maps that have to line up exactly on their respective polygons.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Don't hesitate to come up with others

Seems there is conflicting information here.

This should be very simple.

Are you leaving something out of your set up (or what you are trying to do) that you are not telling us here?

A UV map should be your mask. The image will always only affect the area of the map. No matter how many maps you have or images even on the same surface and stacked as layers. The only time the images will overlap is when you have two UV maps that overlap over the same polygon points. If each map has a unique assignment of polygons then that is your mask right there. Or should be. In Lightwave each map can have only the polygons you assign to it. It does not have to have every polygon in the mesh. If you make maps in Blender then each map has to have all of the polygons. This is not so in LightWave.

This is exactly the very essence of UV mapping as far as I can remember in LightWave so perhaps I don't understand what you are dealing with.

Just to be sure, I did a test on a cube and layered 5 images on 5 different UV maps all stacked as layers. This works as expected. So I am not sure what you are dealing with. Perhaps some screenshots of your set up or upload your file for us to take a look at.

EDIT: Also a point. I don't think this set up will display correctly in OGL you'll have to render. That might be it right there. If you are only looking in the OGL or in Modeler.

Ken B
01-16-2012, 01:33 PM
Yes--there are a couple of small but significant details I didn't go into that I now see come into play.

First, I create all my UV maps outside of Lightwave. I bring the model in with one large, tiled UV layout like in the image above.

When creating mulptiple UV maps, I had gotten into the habbit of taking all the points of geomtry that weren't part of the desired section of geometry and shrinking them down into a small spot in a corner of the UV space. The reason for this was when using multiple UV maps and textures for DISPLACEMENT maps, all the geometry needed to be represented in each map, otherwise those undesired parts of the model would displace or puff out with the layering of the displacements.

So, I was doing this with the UV's meant color maps and having overlay issues. If I select the unwanted points in the UV maps and clear them, the layering of color textues with multiple UV maps work.

Normal require a different method since the nodes don't have a layer option. The vector add node seems to fix this issue.

There are now a couple of options for this workflow. Options are good.

You learn something new every day. Thanks to all who offered ideas and suggestions. If there are more or questions, feel free to post.

Best

Ken

Surrealist.
01-17-2012, 03:11 PM
Well glad you are getting it sorted out then. Interesting info about displacements. Good to know.:)