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View Full Version : Best 3D People methods for Arch Viz in LW



tcoursey
01-01-2012, 06:48 PM
I wanted to post here rather than the specific Arch viz section because of the higher traffic.

I'm looking to get some 3D people into lightwave with animated movements. There seems to be quite a few options for Max and Maya as well as Cinema.

Anyone have some thoughts or experience?

We want to populate scenes with 3D people. I keep saying 3D because we have used polygon based textures that have Green Screen mapped people for many years now.

Thanks for any thoughts, experience or workflow. FBX imports, AutoRigging etc.

Mr Rid
01-02-2012, 01:01 AM
Daz.

RebelHill
01-02-2012, 04:07 AM
Figures are easy enough to come by. Daz as mentioned, aXYZ is great for high quality characters in all the styles u'd want for such uses, and theres places like mixamo too.

As for the rigging/animation of them... mocap/fbx is def the easiest route for you. Some figures u'll be able to get with motions (mixamo again)... and check the sig for some ncie and easy autorigging tools, and the site for guides on fbx-ing your way through getting things into LW.

Eagle66
01-07-2012, 08:00 AM
This is a intersting question! I'am also working with, for distance shots into micro Budget independent Films: "3D people into lightwave with animated movements" and its called Crowd-Simulation with a realism quality where MASSIVE claim to have a monopoly :hey:

So, i hope this crowd people example below is possible with LW 11 Flock-Simulation and it will look realism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FtT8fam00wI#t=155s

DAZ had ugly human models - i think not useful for VFX. If there are a realistic 3D Human Model Library (distance shots) for Free or small Budget please post here.

Nicolas Jordan
01-07-2012, 08:11 AM
We use 3D people from various vendors including the ones already mentioned and run them through Jimmy Rig at the moment to apply motion capture data then bring into Lightwave ClothFX to bake the .mdd file and import the object and .mdd into a program of your choice or keep it in Lightwave.

caesar
01-07-2012, 10:20 AM
So, i hope this crowd people example below is possible with LW 11 Flock-Simulation and it will look realism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FtT8fam00wI#t=155s

DAZ had ugly human models - i think not useful for VFX. If there are a realistic 3D Human Model Library (distance shots) for Free or small Budget please post here.

I think the premium DAZ human models very good (textures and rigging), and I think those kind of aerial view simulation would be achievable with LW 11 flock system.

Mr Rid
01-07-2012, 05:41 PM
DAZ had ugly human models - i think not useful for VFX.

Not really. Depends on how you light and surface them.
Before and after a decent artist (Fabrice Delage)-
100779

4k maps-
100780

The Elite and Genesis models are excellent-
100781 (by Yannek)

I recently rendered the Stephanie 3 model (over eight years old) without altering the maps and I think it holds up surprisingly well-
100782
and is one of many free models.

Theres also Rocketbox Libraries, Dosch Design, and MakeHuman.

Mr Rid
01-07-2012, 05:42 PM
[delete]

tyrot
01-07-2012, 06:03 PM
I use extensively Quidam for so long - low poly + lightwave export is great ...Unlimited characters - unlimited variation.

You may buy also AXYZ as well and buy it in T pose..

AND BUY JIMMYRIG... I lost hours days before using JimmyRig- PURCHASE JimmyRig!!!!!

Enki is adding super plugins. Path plugin and cloning stuff. JimmyRig can be the ONLY thing which can replace ANIMA from AXYZ for wavers.

Formula is this:

Quidam or AXYZ + JimmyRig = Animated crowd (all lwo workflow)

earlier i was using AXYZ + MAX --geometry export test again go back to MAX export again .... bla bla bla
Jimmyrig solved everything. I just cannot believe im using it.

prometheus
01-08-2012, 07:51 AM
I use extensively Quidam for so long - low poly + lightwave export is great ...Unlimited characters - unlimited variation.

You may buy also AXYZ as well and buy it in T pose..

AND BUY JIMMYRIG... I lost hours days before using JimmyRig- PURCHASE JimmyRig!!!!!

Enki is adding super plugins. Path plugin and cloning stuff. JimmyRig can be the ONLY thing which can replace ANIMA from AXYZ for wavers.

Formula is this:

Quidam or AXYZ + JimmyRig = Animated crowd (all lwo workflow)

earlier i was using AXYZ + MAX --geometry export test again go back to MAX export again .... bla bla bla
Jimmyrig solved everything. I just cannot believe im using it.

What has happend to nsided? ive been trying to reach their site some time ago, and tested now again, but canīt reach it, is it over with or what?
quidam seemed so promising, but didnīt have the same realism in figure library content Like daz, but it seemed to have some decent export and sculpting model manipulation tools, wich was way ahead of what daz offers

Michael

prometheus
01-08-2012, 07:59 AM
Mr Rid.

The second image of Miki face looks great, always something thou that gives it away, and in this cas poly hair, would be nice to see that with fiber fx.

Generally itīs the hair, edgy nose and eyelid parts that gives it away and the general expression where mouth isnīt showing a true expression and where eyes just stare right out cold like a shark eye or something.

the edgy nose stuff would be easy to get away with if that model would have been a subpatch model, thus mostly very good modelers creating their own stuff got the upperhand on realism with that.

But whoīs got the time..

Michael

tyrot
01-09-2012, 06:09 AM
hi there michael .. i really do not know what happened to them. Quidam had-has so much potential . I hope they will be recovering from this situation..

But most important stuff i wanna write it again .. is JIMMYRIG. IT is a must have tool for all archvizers out there who do not know character animation.

Daz, Quidam, AXYZ bring all to JimmyRig and Jimmy will make them to do whatever you want in matter of minutes . And blending motions-NATIVE export Lws file (even LWS import) ..

Best

biliousfrog
01-09-2012, 07:11 AM
There's no clothing options (yet) but Make Human has some brilliant base meshes with many options to change gender and modify the models...and it's free.

prometheus
01-09-2012, 07:31 AM
hi there michael .. i really do not know what happened to them. Quidam had-has so much potential . I hope they will be recovering from this situation..

But most important stuff i wanna write it again .. is JIMMYRIG. IT is a must have tool for all archvizers out there who do not know character animation.

Daz, Quidam, AXYZ bring all to JimmyRig and Jimmy will make them to do whatever you want in matter of minutes . And blending motions-NATIVE export Lws file (even LWS import) ..

Best

Well..to bad if quidam has shut down, hard times I guess, but I thought they did a poor marketing, the actual interface and the way you could sculpt and deform the body and add weights change clothing was outstanding and also the posing too, however it did lack a good human to match
daz figures or posers.

I would also have released a figure that would be ready for export to try out how the posing and the rig would work in lightwave, but they didnīt market it that way.


There's no clothing options (yet) but Make Human has some brilliant base meshes with many options to change gender and modify the models...and it's free.

eumm..donīt know about make human, tried it a couple of times, and it had one of the most annoying exporting interface Ivé encountered, and in that beta versions, I didnīt see any good modification tools wich was suppose to get in there.

Michael

Eagle66
01-09-2012, 01:26 PM
@Mr Rid, caesar, prometheus.
Yes, DAZ has nice realism character bodies and it will work for Arch viz. But i talk about VFX with real Footage. The problem is not the motion BVH - the main problem is random Street Cloth, streetwear realism. DAZ is mainly for Fantasy, Anime or UNITY Character etc.

If you watch fxguideTV No 125 - VFX for Anonymous (http://www.fxguide.com/fxguidetv/fxguide-125-anonymous/) you see the main focus. The London Themse Scene as example has thousands crowd people with Cloth Animation for this distance shot, okay it is not made with a micro Budget :hey:

Here is short summary of fxguideTV No 125
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KtuXUQBchCY#t=191s

QUIDAM looks really nice, i don't know which Version you need, the Prime Version has a heavy 4K$ price and the n-sided server seems down...?

So, aXYZ as Base Character, QUIDAM +JimmyRIG + LW 11 Instance or Flock and experience how much realism is possible 8/ ....

Eagle66
01-18-2012, 02:01 PM
n-sided server and QUIDAM is back :)

My first impression - not bad. Which version do yu need? base mesh exported and high resolution subdivided is only in Studio and Prime?

Is this distance Body and Cloth photorealism quality possible with DAZ, Poser or QUIDAM or are this Packages all for video games?

http://www.deathfall.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32121&d=1320176446

Here is Character scanned technique possible as Textures?
http://www.deathfall.com/forums/content.php?7713-Mr.-X-The-Fourth-Musketeer/view/3

I'am not sure how to start with for realistic 3D People.... :help:

prometheus
01-19-2012, 02:09 AM
n-sided server and QUIDAM is back :)

My first impression - not bad. Which version do yu need? base mesh exported and high resolution subdivided is only in Studio and Prime?

Is this distance Body and Cloth photorealism quality possible with DAZ, Poser or QUIDAM or are this Packages all for video games?

http://www.deathfall.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32121&d=1320176446

Here is Character scanned technique possible as Textures?
http://www.deathfall.com/forums/content.php?7713-Mr.-X-The-Fourth-Musketeer/view/3

I'am not sure how to start with for realistic 3D People.... :help:

Great, quidam back, I sent some questions to the sales department.
Thereīs no new update thou, quidam 3 has been out there for some time I think.

My suggestions to the quidam sales was about them removing the 30 day limit, or extend it at least the double.

Then I would like to have a sample rig provided for testing with lightwave.
Otherwise I wonīt even bother with demoversions.

Michael

3dworks
01-19-2012, 02:38 AM
quidam is working well with LW, but you need to buy the LW export plugin for exporting them... didn't use it for a long time, though. seems, however, that the devlopment is stalling, have a look at the forum. only few posts last year. latest press news are from 2010...

another great set of characters for arch animations is here

http://www.rocketbox-libraries.com/

afaik they are interested to release a LW version, but they apparently are still not sure about the 'if' and 'when'. if interested, send them a mail requesting about a lightwave version, maybe it can push them to finally consider this platform...

cheers

markus

Mitja
01-19-2012, 06:03 AM
I tried a couple of time to apply a bvh file to a character. It never worked. Actually I have no clue about this kind of animation stuff. I also followed a tutorial bu Ryste3d on youtube, but my character is always messed up at the end. Maybe because there's no weight maps, the tpose model doesn't fit the skelegon, don't know why. In that tutorial things seem so easy! Any clue?

Mitja
01-19-2012, 06:05 AM
Now that I think, the character is in tpose, but the bvh skelegon's not...

RebelHill
01-19-2012, 06:19 AM
problem with just fitting a bvh straight to a mesh is that things dont always line up corectly proportions wise, also, many bvh's have unusual bone structures, used for gimbal n the like, so its easy to get things mis-posed, and also mis-skinned...

Its a pin in the arse.

Easiest way is to prep a reliable skeleton in LW for your mesh, and then retarget the bvh motion onto it using something else... motionbuilder, animeeple, webanimate... plenty threads round here recently on these subjects.

For an easy setup and workflow, check the fbx vids of mine.

Eagle66
01-24-2012, 03:02 PM
Thats my tool now for 3D people with cloth sim :thumbsup:

MARVELOUS DESIGNER / CLO3D
http://vimeo.com/17622300

Export Point Cache data (.pc2, .mc, .mdd) works with 3DS Max as i read in the forum, so i think should work with LW too... :)
http://www.fatmonsterfilms.com/MD2_Max_Workflow/THE_WORKFLOW.html

Gumby22don
01-24-2012, 07:20 PM
yep - i use poser (as my 3D content provider for our webcomic is using it) and then marvelous designer for really quick clothing. Export back to .obj import to LW and its there, with nicely placed clothing textures. Takes maybe 2-5 mins per person once you have a basic library of clothes, and you can add logos onto t-shirts in 10s or so.

I like applying the person and attached clothes as a flat object, but can't remember the settings off the top of my head. It allows me to make them semi-transparent with only the front showing, or try applying a flat color to them as well for nice subtle archviz scale without worrying about how "good" the 3D people are. (The key property was something like "mask object".)

Don
have a great day

tcoursey
01-25-2012, 09:06 AM
I use extensively Quidam for so long - low poly + lightwave export is great ...Unlimited characters - unlimited variation.

You may buy also AXYZ as well and buy it in T pose..

AND BUY JIMMYRIG... I lost hours days before using JimmyRig- PURCHASE JimmyRig!!!!!

Enki is adding super plugins. Path plugin and cloning stuff. JimmyRig can be the ONLY thing which can replace ANIMA from AXYZ for wavers.

Formula is this:

Quidam or AXYZ + JimmyRig = Animated crowd (all lwo workflow)

earlier i was using AXYZ + MAX --geometry export test again go back to MAX export again .... bla bla bla
Jimmyrig solved everything. I just cannot believe im using it.

So I've watched the Jimmy Rig videos, but am unclear about the "getting into LW". Is it possible to:

1. Buy t-pose character (from whomever)
2. import into JR
3. setup cycle and animation from standard stuff in JR.
4. export to LW, LW already having animation (not just rig) ready for rendering?

This Jimmy Rig looks amazing, just want to make sure of a workflow. Thanks to anyone that can help.

Eagle66
01-25-2012, 11:22 AM
Yes, it works exactly so, but without marvelous designer you have no cloth and cloth simulation only in LW is time a consuming process. Buy a cheap t-pose characters under $100 (from whomever) have normally no cloth, so worthless to render....

rcallicotte
01-25-2012, 01:35 PM
Marvelous Designer site is getting a 503 error - http://www.marvelousdesigner.com/

rcallicotte
01-26-2012, 06:40 AM
To quote the Pink Panther, "Note ineemooor."


Marvelous Designer site is getting a 503 error - http://www.marvelousdesigner.com/

tyrot
01-26-2012, 01:29 PM
So I've watched the Jimmy Rig videos, but am unclear about the "getting into LW". Is it possible to:

1. Buy t-pose character (from whomever)
2. import into JR
3. setup cycle and animation from standard stuff in JR.
4. export to LW, LW already having animation (not just rig) ready for rendering?

This Jimmy Rig looks amazing, just want to make sure of a workflow. Thanks to anyone that can help.

Yes yes ... it is THAT simple. I tell you my friend Mocapping without JimmyRig is really hurting yourself (as i did for many many times)
You will simply say WOW WOW! and buy Kinect just like a did.

Most amazing thing is autorigging- How cool is that to see your character walking in seconds...

And do not so carried away with cloth simulation , archviz budgets are shrinking everyday - basic AXYZ characters are very very ok. You are not making a character animation short...so .. do not get lost in minor details which can take your hours..

BEST

tcoursey
02-01-2012, 09:32 PM
anyone using marvelous designer yet? I've downloaded the trial, played a bit, excellent cloth sim. Activated the "plugin" for animation export etc. Not having much luck with the MDD file it puts out. Lightwave pulls it in, but has some issues. It's probably me and my lack of knowledge.

Anyone else with a short workflow on Marvelous and LW?

Ma3rk
02-13-2012, 05:20 PM
I bought Poser Pro 2012 a short time ago specifically to quickly add some 3D characters into LW scenes and I must say it's working quite nicely this time around. I'd tried earlier incarnations and there was always something problematic or just plain ugly on the rendering, but they got it right this time. For animation, you have to do that within Poser and their animation workflow is, ah, quirky, but for a few hundred frames of a walk cycle it's workable. You can spruce that up with add'l layers of animation too.

Two minor issues: You'll need to scale the imported geometry to match the rest of the LW scene. I haven't done any exact tests but 256X seems to work nicely. Second thing is that the imported Poser object(s) don't Motion Blur correctly, If you set the LW camera to anything below 100%, they won't MB at all in fact.

I was able to take advantage of a cross-grade price so for a couple hundred $$$, it's a great addition to the tools set.

M.