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Chuck
12-31-2011, 10:33 AM
Update from Rob Powers and the NewTek 3D Team is here:

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=124824

And a Safe, Happy and Prosperous New Year to you all, from all of us here at NewTek! :)

Dexter2999
12-31-2011, 10:43 AM
Great to hear Chuck! You and the team have a great New Years!

biliousfrog
12-31-2011, 11:20 AM
Chuck, can I get clarification that I can buy LW10 now and get 11 when it's released at the end of next month? I know it's a bit anal but I'd rather not reinstall 9.6 on a clean system and switch once I'm in full production again. From what I understand LW11 is less of a leap from 10.1 in many ways.

OnlineRender
12-31-2011, 11:55 AM
Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Chuck
12-31-2011, 12:41 PM
Chuck, can I get clarification that I can buy LW10 now and get 11 when it's released at the end of next month? I know it's a bit anal but I'd rather not reinstall 9.6 on a clean system and switch once I'm in full production again. From what I understand LW11 is less of a leap from 10.1 in many ways.

Yes, if you purchase LightWave 10 now you will receive LightWave 11 at no additional charge when it is released.

Imageshoppe
12-31-2011, 12:52 PM
And, if upgrading from 9.6 to 10 cycle today, are you still qualified to receive the LW11 beta?

Regards,

OnlineRender
12-31-2011, 01:10 PM
can I get free copy ? might as well ask drinking will be starting round about now!

50one
12-31-2011, 01:13 PM
Great! Happy new year Newtek and you guys.:)

Darth Mole
12-31-2011, 01:28 PM
Thumbs up from me - look forward to the next beta!

lwanmtr
12-31-2011, 04:06 PM
Cool, cant wait to get my hands on this one.....

OnlineRender
12-31-2011, 04:14 PM
Thought we would have some fun , "probably get my butt kicked , bet meh DRINKING NEW YEAR POST " pick the correct date LW 11 is released and WIN an XBOX Wired controller and a LightWave Plugin that will enable this device .... RULES::::::: we are not running this on WWW.LIGHTWIKI.NET only on here first one on the correct date wins it , just our way of saying thanks and happy new year .... if you have a duplicate date but are second in the forum thread YOU LOSE ... first come first serve so get it right ;) so pick a date and pick it fast ...


http://www.lightwiki.net/images/date.jpg mines it 25th BTW have a great new year and god bless you

ohh newyear - 3rd dont count chances are the NT devs will be having a well deserved rest and hungover !

GOODLUCK and have a great 2012

JFYI it's out of my budget not LWiki , but we have some awesome stuff coming up in 2012 >......................... LIGHTWAVERS ARE EVERYWHERE!

lwanmtr
12-31-2011, 04:16 PM
January 23rd...thats my guess

OnlineRender
12-31-2011, 04:23 PM
January 23rd...thats my guess

is that secret Intel? :) have a happy new year mate

Ill catch this thread in the morning away to PARRRTY !

lwanmtr
12-31-2011, 04:25 PM
Nope...just a nice random number...lol

Happy new year to you also

cresshead
12-31-2011, 05:30 PM
jan 13th please...it's a friday afterall!

data3d
12-31-2011, 07:01 PM
If I was NewTek, having committed to being thorough with the final prep and polish of V11, I'd use as much of January as I could. I also think a Friday release to give users the weekend to thoroughly enjoy the new toys and technologies, so based on that logic (or lack there of) I'd pick Friday, January 27th for the release!

hazmat777
12-31-2011, 07:31 PM
Wanted to pick the 27th, but that's taken so I'll go with the 31st. 1/31/12.

prospector
12-31-2011, 07:40 PM
30th

Caveboy
12-31-2011, 07:43 PM
I pick Jan 26th!

GandB
12-31-2011, 08:10 PM
I'll go with the 20th then.

Philbert
12-31-2011, 09:21 PM
I'll go with the 29th.

Bill1955
12-31-2011, 10:22 PM
Sometime between March and June.:beerchug:

Derrick_SA
01-01-2012, 01:17 AM
Geeze, there are some spectacular improvements in 11 !! Wow!

- Derrick

HenrikSkoglund
01-01-2012, 02:56 AM
Geeze, there are some spectacular improvements in 11 !! Wow!

- Derrick

And what are those? ;)

Or do you mean compared to v10?

Roger Harris
01-01-2012, 04:44 AM
And, if upgrading from 9.6 to 10 cycle today, are you still qualified to receive the LW11 beta?

Regards,

No, you're definitely not! I just bought 10.1 last week having thought that, as I wanted the instancing for a massive project starting in January. Miffed about it as now that they've missed the 30th Dec date, that sales told me was when I'd get 11, it means I will not now be able to use Lightwave for all the new work. Looks like I'll be doing all my 2012 projects in modo, which is great, but I really, really wanted the LW speed and big scene handling.
Still, it was only a job for the upcoming 2012 Olympics here in the UK, so nothing that special!

OK, rant over.

OnlineRender
01-01-2012, 05:35 AM
No, you're definitely not! I just bought 10.1 last week having thought that, as I wanted the instancing for a massive project starting in January. Really pi**ed off about it as now that they've missed the 30th Dec date, that sales told me was when I'd get 11, it means I will not now be able to use Lightwave for all the new work. So total waste of money for me then! Looks like I'll be doing all my 2012 projects in modo, which is great, but I really, really wanted the LW speed and big scene handling.
Still, it was only a job for the upcoming 2012 Olympics here in the UK, so nothing that special!

OK, rant over. As you can tell I'm very unhappy. This is the last ever time I throw money at Newtek.

ask them to throw the beta build of LW 11 if your that unhappy I assume you will get LW11 eitherway ... you can still do instancing in LW9+ just not native .

biliousfrog
01-01-2012, 05:51 AM
Sat 28th from me

PhotoTekArtWork
01-01-2012, 05:52 AM
2 Feb 2012

Roger Harris
01-01-2012, 05:54 AM
ask them to throw the beta build of LW 11 if your that unhappy I assume you will get LW11 eitherway ... you can still do instancing in LW9+ just not native .

Yeah, I tried that. Asked ever so nicely but it was a resounding no. Apparently it only for 'loyal' customers, even though I've been a paid-up user since about 1997!

Of course I will get 11 when it comes out, it's just that I wanted to be up to speed with the new stuff for the Olympic project. Its not just instancing, I could use the flocking too. I have HD Instance, and of course modo has great instancing, but this will be a really big scene and LW likes them much better than modo.

I may just get it all started in 10.1 then do the 11 stuff at the last minute.

biliousfrog
01-01-2012, 06:09 AM
No, you're definitely not! I just bought 10.1 last week having thought that, as I wanted the instancing for a massive project starting in January. Really pi**ed off about it as now that they've missed the 30th Dec date, that sales told me was when I'd get 11, it means I will not now be able to use Lightwave for all the new work. So total waste of money for me then! Looks like I'll be doing all my 2012 projects in modo, which is great, but I really, really wanted the LW speed and big scene handling.
Still, it was only a job for the upcoming 2012 Olympics here in the UK, so nothing that special!

OK, rant over. As you can tell I'm very unhappy. This is the last ever time I throw money at Newtek.

I'm kind of in the same boat but I also know that you should only ever quote/plan projects based on the tools that are currently available. I feel slightly inconvenienced, not ripped off. I don't even know whether native instancing will be any better or more appropriate than HDI so I wouldn't rely on it until I've used it...that seems a little foolish.

SBowie
01-01-2012, 06:34 AM
Yeah, I tried that. Asked ever so nicely but it was a resounding no. Apparently it only for 'loyal' customers, even though I've been a paid-up user since about 1997!I would ask again - specifically, I would continue working with CS (politely explaining the situation without a lot of drama), and I might fire off a PM to Chuck. A post here likely won't even be noticed during the holiday period.

Policies are established for good reasons, but even when they are in place with a little sustained effort one can often sidestep them when exceptional circumstances seem to warrant.

Shnoze Shmon
01-01-2012, 06:52 AM
LOL I wanted 27th too. I'll go with Jan 25th then.

daforum
01-01-2012, 07:28 AM
My guess, the 9th of Jan...

:goodluck:

OnlineRender
01-01-2012, 07:30 AM
LOL I wanted 27th too. I'll go with Jan 25th then.

Thats my date but I already have a wired controller so you can have it since I am nice that way or hungover not sure yet :)


lwanmtr--------------Jan 23rd
cresshead------------Jan 13th
data3d-------------- Jan 27th
hazmat777-----------Jan 31st
prospector-----------Jan 30th
CaveBoy-------------Jan 26th
GandB---------------Jan 20th
Philbert--------------Jan 29th
biliousfrog------------Jan28th
Shnoze Shmon-------Jan 25th
daforum-------------Jan 9th

Roger Harris
01-01-2012, 08:24 AM
I'm kind of in the same boat but I also know that you should only ever quote/plan projects based on the tools that are currently available. I feel slightly inconvenienced, not ripped off. I don't even know whether native instancing will be any better or more appropriate than HDI so I wouldn't rely on it until I've used it...that seems a little foolish.

Well, I didn't quote the job based on possible features. I didn't even quote based on LW, it would just have been nice to use some of the new flocking and stuff in this project. When I quoted, I had no idea LW11 was even coming out.
I'm not feeling ripped off either, just mildly disappointed because I thought I'd be getting a nice christmas present but it never turned up. Still, I'd rather wait and know it was absolutely rock solid than get half way through the project and have LW fail at a crucial moment.. I'm sure it will be brilliant when it does arrive.

tcoursey
01-01-2012, 10:38 AM
24th please. Thanks. oops didn't see all the updates on second and third pages! lol.

Andrewstopheles
01-01-2012, 11:33 PM
18th?

jburford
01-02-2012, 04:33 AM
Sort of thinking it will not make it out the door in January...... but, it it does I say the 31st!

Phrog
01-02-2012, 09:48 AM
my guess is feb 3!

daforum
01-02-2012, 12:52 PM
I think i'm going to be the first to be disappointed :(
I've just read the post announcing "the release at the end of January"

Good luck "end-of-january" choosers!

speismonqui
01-02-2012, 01:07 PM
"Good luck "end-of-january" choosers! "

(stubborn me) count me in: feb 2nd

Derrick_SA
01-02-2012, 04:36 PM
And what are those? ;)

Or do you mean compared to v10?

The flocking, awesome instancing performance, Fracture (using it with bulet dynamics), The print rendering

Don't ya think that's really nice Henrik?


-Derrick

Philbert
01-02-2012, 06:50 PM
I just realized I picked the 29th but that's a Sunday. Not very likely for a release date.

PhotoTekArtWork
01-02-2012, 08:44 PM
"Good luck "end-of-january" choosers! "

(stubborn me) count me in: feb 2nd

I already have that one.

JEFFilm
01-02-2012, 10:59 PM
I'll guess late - Feb 1

Looking forward to 11 :thumbsup:

geo_n
01-02-2012, 11:26 PM
End of March realistically :D

Derrick_SA
01-03-2012, 12:40 AM
Just wondering, I joined Core Feb 09, do I then qualify for the $395, got no emails?

thanks,
Derrick

JamesCurtis
01-03-2012, 09:42 AM
I'm going to say February 14th, since Valentine's Day is full of loving! Ha Ha!!

cybernaut
01-03-2012, 12:06 PM
i think it will be the end of the fourth quarter, which year it is remains to be seen.

rotflmao

Imageshoppe
01-03-2012, 01:10 PM
April 13th, the Friday before NAB 2012, so to make sure no one is yelling at them at in person during the show.

"Why are you upset, sir? Don't you know we released it just last week?"

mduclon
01-06-2012, 11:04 AM
Jan 16th

silviotoledo
01-06-2012, 04:54 PM
Rob said January, why is people saying march?

Philbert
01-06-2012, 05:00 PM
Rob said January, why is people saying march?

Trying to be difficult I presume.

lwanmtr
01-06-2012, 05:03 PM
lol

KorbenD
01-07-2012, 08:27 PM
Rob said January, why is people saying march?

Because NewTek has a history of . . . problems with release dates.

CORE was supposed to be released over a year ago.

11 was supposed to be out before the end of 2011.

Those are just the two most recent examples. I personally doubt myself that it will get a release this month. Works out for me, since I should have my tax refund in time to buy the upgrade. ;)

SonicN2O
01-07-2012, 09:35 PM
Jan 25th, just want the bragging rights and a copy of that plugin since somebody already took it... Being a Mac user, it would be f***!ng AWESOME if LW11 had Lion support, like versions and full screen. Did I mention versions?

jwiede
01-07-2012, 09:59 PM
Being a Mac user, it would be f***!ng AWESOME if LW11 had Lion support, like versions and full screen. Did I mention versions?
Full screen might be doable without harming backcompat. I'd be quite surprised to see versions support, though, as adding that would make backwards-compatibility with 10.6 difficult. There are an awful lot of folks still on 10.6 for various reasons, so adding support for a feature that effectively makes LW11 require 10.7 seems unlikely.

Still, never say never. Who knows, maybe you'll get support for both features.

SonicN2O
01-08-2012, 08:24 AM
There's a 10.6?

SonicN2O
01-08-2012, 08:25 AM
I thought they were going to have a LW10.6 but decided to release a new version because of all the new features. Are there improvements with Hypervoxles?

prometheus
01-08-2012, 08:39 AM
I thought they were going to have a LW10.6 but decided to release a new version because of all the new features. Are there improvements with Hypervoxles?

No..not much done in that area, a new blending mode introduced wich is supposed to give better blending in surface, and also introduced a blending mode for hv volumes, but that needs working on, Itīs just on the prerelease yet, and might be different when it is officially released.

Michael

Cyberfish_Fred
01-10-2012, 04:38 AM
febr 10th

;-)

50one
01-10-2012, 06:17 AM
21st of December,so we will have like an hour to play with it.:D

Bill1955
01-10-2012, 02:22 PM
They might do the same as they did with LW10, shove whatever they have out the door whether is ready or not just to meet their deadline and later release a LW 10.1 killing some of the roaches they let out the door with the LW 10 premature release.

daforum
01-10-2012, 03:23 PM
I'm sure it will be ready by the end of january; but i'm already past the date I chose :(

jwiede
01-13-2012, 08:26 PM
I'm sure it will be ready by the end of january; but i'm already past the date I chose :(
There's a certain irony to the first part of your comment, given the second part. ;)

ednachman
01-16-2012, 08:36 AM
January 32

Shnoze Shmon
01-16-2012, 09:37 PM
LOL I wanted 27th too. I'll go with Jan 25th then.

Only 9 days until it's release! :D

daforum
01-17-2012, 10:07 AM
There's a certain irony to the first part of your comment, given the second part. ;)

:) Ha, ha! I hadn't realised that when I was typing!

calilifestyle
01-19-2012, 10:18 AM
well i guess Lw11 has yet to ship.

50one
01-19-2012, 10:57 AM
I've been using LW 12 for the past few months and it smokes LW11.

Sekhar
01-19-2012, 11:41 AM
I've been using LW 12 for the past few months and it smokes LW11.

Time for a Roberto LW 13 thread then. :D

Bill1955
01-20-2012, 01:09 PM
Time for a Roberto LW 13 thread then. :D

lol:D

Danner
01-20-2012, 01:52 PM
I've been using LW 12 for the past few months and it smokes LW11.

Sounds like some smoking is going on here for sure.

ianr
01-21-2012, 09:40 AM
Yeah, Wacky (smokin) Tabbaccie

jdomingo
01-22-2012, 08:17 PM
Thought we would have some fun , "probably get my butt kicked , bet meh DRINKING NEW YEAR POST " pick the correct date LW 11 is released and WIN an XBOX Wired controller and a LightWave Plugin that will enable this device .... RULES::::::: we are not running this on WWW.LIGHTWIKI.NET only on here first one on the correct date wins it , just our way of saying thanks and happy new year .... if you have a duplicate date but are second in the forum thread YOU LOSE ... first come first serve so get it right ;) so pick a date and pick it fast ...


http://www.lightwiki.net/images/date.jpg mines it 25th BTW have a great new year and god bless you

ohh newyear - 3rd dont count chances are the NT devs will be having a well deserved rest and hungover !

GOODLUCK and have a great 2012

JFYI it's out of my budget not LWiki , but we have some awesome stuff coming up in 2012 >......................... LIGHTWAVERS ARE EVERYWHERE!

the ligtwave website says Q4. which year, i dont know.

geo_n
01-22-2012, 10:20 PM
I still think March earliest. The problems in lw 10.1 and the new features in lw 11 are not simple stuff. I still get nervous using fiberfx in lw 10.1. Import from scene with fiberfx=disaster.
Unified sampling in lw 11 looks to address the bad AA in lw 10.1 hopefully.
Feb is just a few days away. Too soon.

TripD
01-22-2012, 11:52 PM
Releasuary 1st!!!!!! I win!!!!!!!

mborge
01-23-2012, 12:33 AM
Releasuary 1st!!!!!! I win!!!!!!!

:jester: HA HA HA! That's definitely a winner!

I choose Monday the 30th because, Sunday nights always seem appropriate for last minute panic!

Whatever it is. I'm glad NT is hanging in and moving forward.

SonicN2O
01-25-2012, 05:23 PM
Well, my day has come and gone... how much will this plugin cost?

OnlineRender
01-25-2012, 06:40 PM
Johans controller plugin _$10 bargin in bed on mobile to sleepy to link

BigHache
01-25-2012, 08:03 PM
I hadn't picked a date, but I'm going with Feb 7th. Not because I think it won't be released in January, but all the other days are picked. :P

Cyberfish_Fred
01-26-2012, 01:40 AM
I don't care about the release date anymore, I just want to see a new Lightwave with better Hypervoxels (blending/ SSS/ bullet dynamics). Also with better composition export, including object id (also for different hypervoxels in your scene).

It is 2012, the year of change, come on Newtek, prove it, you can do it!

And what about Worley? Are they still working on a new Fprime or something else?

It's really time for a new version with lots of huge enhancements otherwise we have to switch to another 3d package I think......

Counting.......................................... ..

evolross
01-26-2012, 10:37 AM
Worley has been quiet for SO LONG. Who knows what's been going on with that guy. I sometimes wonder if low sales caused him to no longer see the value in writing LW plugins. Hopefully not. That would be wonderful if he came out with something insanely awesome out of the blue.

And personally, I hope Newtek delays as long as they need to fix all the serious bugs. I just submitted two serious FiberFX bugs last night (one is a fatal crash 8~) I discovered in 10.1 in the last couple days.

Shnoze Shmon
01-26-2012, 01:58 PM
Well my date has passed so I'll take the next available date ( which is a Friday) Feb 3.

Bill1955
01-26-2012, 11:34 PM
I don't care about the release date anymore, I just want to see a new Lightwave with better Hypervoxels (blending/ SSS/ bullet dynamics). Also with better composition export, including object id (also for different hypervoxels in your scene).

It is 2012, the year of change, come on Newtek, prove it, you can do it!

And what about Worley? Are they still working on a new Fprime or something else?

It's really time for a new version with lots of huge enhancements otherwise we have to switch to another 3d package I think......

Counting.......................................... ..

I don't think any major plugin player like worley is going to waste their time writing plugins for lightwave, when lightwave itself is in a state of flux.

Their is no telling what lightwave will look like when this 5 upgrade at a lock-in price sprint is over. Will it be unified will it not.

The sdk will probably see some drastic changes in the next 5 to 8 years if lightwave survives this economy.

It's a lot of work to write a plugin and then try to maintain it every time a new version of lightwave breaks it. And if their is one thing we know about lightwavers is that they don't want to pay for upgrades every year.

kolby
01-27-2012, 12:16 AM
Worley has been quiet for SO LONG. Who knows what's been going on with that guy. I sometimes wonder if low sales caused him to no longer see the value in writing LW plugins. Hopefully not. That would be wonderful if he came out with something insanely awesome out of the blue.

Worley still works as a developer for Lightwave. He said that he works on "cooler stuff". Due to the fact that he is very active in the nvidia cuda forum, I expect something gpu accelerated.

50one
01-27-2012, 06:34 AM
Are we there yet?
Maybe some quality marketing materials from the marketing department in the meantime?so we can feast our eyes on the images from the people that tested other stuff than bullet?:)

biliousfrog
01-27-2012, 07:50 AM
Ooooh....not long now...for the next announcement.

Hey Steph, is there a roll-over if it goes in to next month? :D

biliousfrog
01-27-2012, 07:52 AM
Damn, I just realised I said 'if' it goes to next month

littlewaves
01-30-2012, 06:29 AM
Damn, I just realised I said 'if' it goes to next month

Never put off until next month what you can put off until the month after.

Feb 29th. (this is a leap year isn't it?)

50one
01-30-2012, 06:48 AM
So, Is it getting released or no?

fablefox
01-30-2012, 07:38 AM
So, Is it getting released or no?

Welcome to Newtek! :bowdown:

50one
01-30-2012, 07:50 AM
Welcome to Newtek! :bowdown:

Haha, I know, I just wanted them to know that I'm here, waiting.....

Philbert
01-30-2012, 09:18 AM
Oh well, my day is past. Well I'm starting with a new client today so at least should be able to pre-order soon.

Bill1955
01-30-2012, 09:21 AM
I guess that it is down to

hazmat777-----------Jan 31st
prospector-----------Jan 30th

tic-tac-tic-tac...

Bill1955
01-30-2012, 09:55 AM
If not

JEFFilm------------------------Feb 1
PhotoTekArtWorks-------------Feb 2
Phrog-------------------------Feb 3
BigHache----------------------Feb 7
Cyberfish----------------------Feb 10
JamesCurtis-------------------Feb 14
tik-tak-tik-tak...

if not

bill1955-----------------------March thru June
geo_n------------------------end of March
tik-tak-tik-tak...

if not

50one------------------------Dec 21
Cyberfish---------------------end of 4th quarter
tik-tak-tik-tak

Still have 11 months and 2 days for someone to get it right.

50one
01-30-2012, 10:05 AM
...or it will get cancelled and Newtek will decide to fix the bugs in 10.1 and make it 10.2. Hahaha:devil:

biliousfrog
01-30-2012, 10:22 AM
...or it will get cancelled and Newtek will decide to fix the bugs in 10.1 and make it 10.2. Hahaha:devil:

Or cancelled and reboot CORE again

Gar
01-30-2012, 10:24 AM
where are the bug fixes...my crash reports have been sent about 30 times..
why upgrade to another bugging program, if they don't fix the old or give us the things that were promised for version 10.x





...or it will get cancelled and Newtek will decide to fix the bugs in 10.1 and make it 10.2. Hahaha:devil:

Gar
01-30-2012, 10:25 AM
1 more day.

biliousfrog
01-30-2012, 10:28 AM
bah...I chickened out :D

50one
01-30-2012, 10:28 AM
You, bunch of optimists you....

OnlineRender
01-30-2012, 10:31 AM
and there is me thinking do something nice make it a little interesting rather than another set-back, maybe diverge the heat a little " wrong" as you where ....

Andrewstopheles
01-30-2012, 10:44 AM
I think Rob was on here last week saying they were preparing the build for us. Doesn't that mean they are on target?
It's frustrating, considering they waited until Dec31st to inform us they weren't releasing anything until end of January, so we never really know until it comes. But I suppose it is the same frustration they feel, preparing the final builds and testing them.
I just wish we had access to all the interim builds that the beta team has, since we paid for that access long ago in HC (yes, it has been officially changed and we do not get that access anymore).
Anyway, I bet we will get some super sweet goodies by tomorrow night!

fazi69
01-30-2012, 11:08 AM
All Newtek`s coders are chained to the radiators in the basement and work on offline machines. It is the only reason why someone from the team can`t write anything every now and then.
You can learn more about progress in shipyard forum about latest aircraft carrier than on Newtek`s forum about anything LW3d dev related.

Phil
01-30-2012, 11:19 AM
All Newtek`s coders are chained to the radiators in the basement and work on offline machines. It is the only reason why someone from the team can`t write anything every now and then.
You can learn more about progress in shipyard forum about latest aircraft carrier than on Newtek`s forum about anything LW3d dev related.

That's intentional. The same is largely true for Luxology, Autodesk, etc. Too often, well intentioned posts have come back to bite NT later due to an unforeseen event.

Following the grand experiment during 9.x and Core of wide open activity, if the devs and management have now decided that they can work more effectively in a semi-dark state, so be it.

I'd rather have a solid upgrade on time, every time than a forum-based soap opera accompanied by a thousand 'me too' posts. :devil:

50one
01-30-2012, 11:50 AM
owing the grand experiment during 9.x and Core of wide open activity

Core...wide open activity?:)

OnlineRender
01-30-2012, 11:52 AM
great example of a company supporting an artist http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/240734865/3113-completion-funds

would like to see more of this "not the stuff that goes uncharted or behind closed doors" full on PR mashup ...

I honestly do not expect to ever see a dev or comment from any newtek staff member on the general boards ever again "just not worth the hassle " regarding LightWave other than its ready to be released its at (x+y+z)

50one
01-30-2012, 12:43 PM
...its ready to be released its at (x+y+z)

...or "It's ready, you can now download it." ,as we had the announcement that it will be ready at the late of January.

Started to type a long message, but meh, can't be bothered.

Anyway, I would seriously re-think the whole marketing & communication strategy as it is very pre 2000, to put it lightly.:D

Bill1955
01-30-2012, 03:12 PM
That's intentional. The same is largely true for Luxology, Autodesk, etc. Too often, well intentioned posts have come back to bite NT later due to an unforeseen event.

Following the grand experiment during 9.x and Core of wide open activity, if the devs and management have now decided that they can work more effectively in a semi-dark state, so be it.

I'd rather have a solid upgrade on time, every time than a forum-based soap opera accompanied by a thousand 'me too' posts. :devil:

Then they better go completely dark because they have yet to meet one of their self-imposed deadline with the exception of lw10 and we all know that the only reason they met that one is because they let the roaches out the door and a lot of those are still on the loose.

I would prefer that they just hush. This forums might then become a place for those that need help and those that want to provide help.

Oh yeah, and for the one that wants to ask what LW XX + 1 needs to have and how it finally going to kick Maya's butt.

OnlineRender
01-30-2012, 04:29 PM
when it comes it comes for now we need this

http://images.paraorkut.com/img/funnypics/images/e/extend_deadline-12148.jpg

lwanmtr
01-30-2012, 04:50 PM
lol...I want that

fazi69
01-30-2012, 04:52 PM
when it comes it comes for now we need this

http://images.paraorkut.com/img/funnypics/images/e/extend_deadline-12148.jpg

Best feature ever !! Just after "make it awesome"

Burchigb
01-30-2012, 05:13 PM
Lol

Phil
01-30-2012, 05:28 PM
Core...wide open activity?:)

Sure, they didn't limit the numbers in 'HardCore' in any way, shape or form - all you needed was a valid, current, LW license and to pay the upgrade/entrance fee. They, bravely, chose to do this right at the start of the project. You got to see the entire process, warts and all - from beginning to end. Given everything that transpired, it's unsurprising that they don't appear to want to do something like that ever again.

Shnoze Shmon
01-30-2012, 09:06 PM
If not

JEFFilm------------------------Feb 1
PhotoTekArtWorks-------------Feb 2
Phrog-------------------------Feb 3
BigHache----------------------Feb 7
Cyberfish----------------------Feb 10
JamesCurtis-------------------Feb 14
tik-tak-tik-tak...

if not

bill1955-----------------------March thru June
geo_n------------------------end of March
tik-tak-tik-tak...

if not

50one------------------------Dec 21
Cyberfish---------------------end of 4th quarter
tik-tak-tik-tak

Still have 11 months and 2 days for someone to get it right.

Missed that Feb 3rd was taken...

Ok I'll take Feb 6th... and anticipate not needing another date... cmon hear me NT!

Bill1955
01-30-2012, 09:30 PM
Sure, they didn't limit the numbers in 'HardCore' in any way, shape or form - all you needed was a valid, current, LW license and to pay the upgrade/entrance fee. They, bravely, chose to do this right at the start of the project. You got to see the entire process, warts and all - from beginning to end. Given everything that transpired, it's unsurprising that they don't appear to want to do something like that ever again.

What transpired was that very little actual info was forthcoming from newtek, a lot of misinformation if not blatant lies were told. They divided the community into the "have" and "have not" all in the name of cash-flow and it still continues with LW10 and LW11. Of course they are still asking for the money up front and they still have a little hid-away privilege web cave that hardly anyone visits anymore, they also continue to try to predict release dates(self imposed deadlines) that they are terrible at. That is why I prefer that they go completely space dark and don't resurface until you have a finish product to sell. Then and only then state your price and release date.

Philbert
01-30-2012, 09:58 PM
Matt just posted on Twitter:

Edited... "Oops, Matt's account is private".

bazsa73
01-30-2012, 10:38 PM
Would be great having LW11 soon as I heard from Matt that new DOF is best so far, and I need it in a commercial.

biliousfrog
01-31-2012, 04:37 AM
Would be great having LW11 soon as I heard from Matt that new DOF is best so far, and I need it in a commercial.

Do it in post - quicker, more control and better results 90% of the time. I've used LW's DoF perhaps once in the last 5 years but have some in almost every project I've done.

http://www.frischluft.com/lenscare/index.php

50one
01-31-2012, 04:52 AM
Funny thing is that frischluft is not always giving me the great results in photoshop, so I'm using the built in lens blur mostly. But the specular blooming in lenscare is great.

biliousfrog
01-31-2012, 02:28 PM
I agree, it doesn't always work. I mostly go through After Effects nowadays which has a similarly reliable, if a bit basic, lens blur. By combining with other plugins such as optical flares and magic bullet looks you can get very film-like looks.

calilifestyle
01-31-2012, 02:33 PM
so maybe February.

biliousfrog
01-31-2012, 02:44 PM
Two months, two missed deadlines

OnlineRender
01-31-2012, 03:23 PM
Still time

lwanmtr
01-31-2012, 03:26 PM
Do we just continue the contest until it's relased? If so, I'll take Feb-8 (if its not taken)

50one
01-31-2012, 03:45 PM
...Anytime soon?:)

OnlineRender
01-31-2012, 03:48 PM
Do we just continue the contest until it's relased? If so, I'll take Feb-8 (if its not taken)

what do you think this is the Euro Millions roll-ever :) yeah knock yourself s out I'm buying (",) .... knee deep in code, too drunking to care ....


ever wrote a brief for a pre5's nursery with a 3k budget damn its hard :)


EDIT we go with AUSTIN TIME , they still have a few hours left . FAIR enough ?

Philbert
01-31-2012, 03:49 PM
A little bird told me that it's gone gold.

OnlineRender
01-31-2012, 03:51 PM
A little bird told me that it's gone gold.

yeah yeah I seen it on facebook first :P .......... but going gold is different from going gold and letting people download it ....:devil:

Philbert
01-31-2012, 03:52 PM
Ah OK I don't visit facebook often. There's Gold and there's Gold Master.

OnlineRender
01-31-2012, 04:58 PM
good point was raised today ! there is gold for members "ie people who have paid " then there is gold for people once the publishing packaging and whatever is done..silly marketing

geo_n
01-31-2012, 05:03 PM
so maybe February.

Like my previous post. March.
Atleast to make it more stable
They need to fix ffx seriously or abandon it all together.

calilifestyle
01-31-2012, 05:24 PM
Like my previous post. March.
Atleast to make it more stable
They need to fix ffx seriously or abandon it all together.

lol dang that nuts.

monovich
01-31-2012, 05:27 PM
I don't really care when it shows up as long as it works correctly. People with moan if its late, and people will moan if its broken.

cybernaut
01-31-2012, 06:36 PM
Having a product working flawlessly IS great but not meeting a specified deadline for a client, ie LW users, and not sticking to is NOT great. If I was as casual with my deadlines I would loose clients left right and centre. Its not very professional to say one thing and do something else. The only people who will be totally forgiving of this attitude are die-hard fan boys and LW users who don't know how to use any other 3D package.

dblincoe
01-31-2012, 06:57 PM
Having a product working flawlessly IS great but not meeting a specified deadline for a client, ie LW users, and not sticking to is NOT great. If I was as casual with my deadlines I would loose clients left right and centre. Its not very professional to say one thing and do something else. The only people who will be totally forgiving of this attitude are die-hard fan boys and LW users who don't know how to use any other 3D package.

At the same time I have clients that would rather wait longer and get the best bang for their buck than to pull the plug right on a deadline and take it as is. For me, I want it done right (stable).

geo_n
01-31-2012, 07:34 PM
Having a product working flawlessly IS great but not meeting a specified deadline for a client, ie LW users, and not sticking to is NOT great. If I was as casual with my deadlines I would loose clients left right and centre. Its not very professional to say one thing and do something else. The only people who will be totally forgiving of this attitude are die-hard fan boys and LW users who don't know how to use any other 3D package.

The scope might not be the same size so extensions in software dev are understandable compared to what we do which sometimes we can compromise on our project quality and deadline.
In software there should be no compromise for stability for users. Atleast make things work as it should. Its not open to interpretation, workarounds, subjective in function. It should just work!

digefxgrp
01-31-2012, 08:22 PM
I bet it's delayed due to all the flooding in Thailand. :help:

battery555
01-31-2012, 10:00 PM
I bet it's delayed due to all the flooding in Thailand. :help: I guess we should be more sensitive to the disaster happened in Thailand. This is not funny at all :tsktsk:

stevenpalomino
02-01-2012, 12:18 AM
I'm kind of torn here.. because both sides have points.. for one.. I want a complete release with as few bugs as possible because us as the users need dependable software to do our jobs.. on the other hand.. it's a serious business offense when you not just push back a deadline.. but then don't meet it and don't say anything about it. I'm sure there will be more news tomorrow being Feb. 1st.. but still..

NT seriously needs to consider getting a PR person and stepping things us with communication and outreach. The newsletters were such a great thing.. and not only did they stop.. but they're nowhere to be found :/

I'm not hating as much as venting. It's almost like a disciplining your children type of thing. Sometimes, despite the fact that it kind of hurts you, things need to be said/addressed. I have a lot of faith in NT, but it's these types of things that just add to a "sub-par" label people put on LW.

lwanmtr
02-01-2012, 12:34 AM
Agree...A little blurb saying 'hey we got delayed a little cause we locked ourselves in our cars accidentally' or something like that would be nice.

On the plus side...I may actually have my upgrade money before it gets released...lol

biliousfrog
02-01-2012, 02:20 AM
The announcement of LW11's features caused a bit of a stir. A lot of people who had given up on NT suddenly began to feel a bit excited again about LW's development. I honestly didn't expect to buy another LW licence after 9.6 but 11 actually sounded and looked like a decent investment....

Then there was all the hassle trying to upgrade, then the deadline was missed, then it was missed again....

Putting aside the product itself, whether or not it is stable and ready for release, NT have a brilliant knack for disappointment. They have learned how to market themselves a bit better but they still haven't learned how to deliver the goods (physically and metaphorically). It's not rocket science, if you consistently miss deadlines then perhaps they aren't realistic? If you constantly aggravate your customers then they'll leave and if you appear amateur to outsiders then you'll never be taken seriously.

In future I'd suggest not giving a launch date at all until the product is finished and on sale.

gristle
02-01-2012, 02:50 AM
In future I'd suggest not giving a launch date at all until the product is finished and on sale.

But that may reduce the amount of people buying into the pre release!

I'm sitting on my $ at the moment to see what Worley has up his sleeve and also for the next Kray release.

biliousfrog
02-01-2012, 02:54 AM
But that may reduce the amount of people buying into the pre release!


Do you think that recent events have encouraged people to buy before they try?

gristle
02-01-2012, 03:01 AM
Recent events... you mean Core?
I was being facetious by the way.

Rhino/McNeel have a good system of running betas of the next version for free, if you have the current version. When it comes out of beta, you then have to pay to get the release. The result was a stable well tested program which seems to be a big issue with some parts of 11. Of course, there is no money up front with this approach.

Fadlabi
02-01-2012, 03:41 AM
then there was all the hassle trying to upgrade, then the deadline was missed, then it was missed again....

In future i'd suggest not giving a launch date at all until the product is finished and on sale.

+1

jdomingo
02-01-2012, 03:48 AM
can we start a new polls now? like, what NT's excuses for the delay?
i believed it's due to the "unforeseen circumstances".

littlewaves
02-01-2012, 04:12 AM
can we start a new polls now? like, what NT's excuses for the delay?
i believed it's due to the "unforeseen circumstances".

do they ever give excuses? I think it's more often "Great news! it'll be ready by the end of the quarter (again)"

battery555
02-01-2012, 05:36 AM
Any realistic company will never want to consistently missing dateline and doing less than please service recovery or damage control. If so then it just goes to show the company has lost it passion and simply not interested in its business. I thought we suppose to get bullet in core but in ended up in paid LW11 upgrade instead of LW10. There are many loyalist in this forum and I'm sure they will die to defend NT till their last breath. I really want to see NT do well because I love this software and I have spend a great deal of time on it. But even the most loyal user will wane one day if such issue not addressed. In the long run it will lead to loose loose loose situation.

ednachman
02-01-2012, 06:03 AM
NT seems to favor its hardware rather than its software.

colkai
02-01-2012, 06:09 AM
Do you think that recent events have encouraged people to buy before they try?

quoted for agreement

RebelHill
02-01-2012, 06:13 AM
See... I still dont get much of this backfiring regarding missed deadlines, broken promises and the like.

I dont recall ONCE... either recently, nor during core, NT ever saying "we promise", or "delivery definate"... All Ive ever seen are aims for features, or expected release dates, which by definition, are open to some leeway. And thats not some die hard, fanboy defence of NT (afterall I own more AD products than NT ones)... but it certainly is a solid "loyalism" to the fine points and strict definitions of the english language.

And in all fairness, who hasnt, in either a personal or professional capacity, at some point said to someone "I'll try to get you a/b/c", and then gone a lil over, or off target? i know I sure have at times, so no biggie.

Mitja
02-01-2012, 06:13 AM
What would your boss or client say to you if you missed a deadline?

RebelHill
02-01-2012, 06:26 AM
What would your boss or client say to you if you missed a deadline?

Thats the thing though... no DEADLINE was given, only an EXPECTED release date.

If I quoted a client an absolute deadline, and I missed it, Id expect them to be unhappy, and rightly so. If we agreed an approximate date of delivery, and I went over the estimation, Id expect them to understand what estimation meant (which experience has taught me, they pretty much do).

Andrewstopheles
02-01-2012, 06:44 AM
Thats the thing though... no DEADLINE was given, only an EXPECTED release date.

If I quoted a client an absolute deadline, and I missed it, Id expect them to be unhappy, and rightly so. If we agreed an approximate date of delivery, and I went over the estimation, Id expect them to understand what estimation meant (which experience has taught me, they pretty much do).

Agreed.

biliousfrog
02-01-2012, 06:48 AM
I dont recall ONCE... either recently, nor during core, NT ever saying "we promise", or "delivery definate"... All Ive ever seen are aims for features, or expected release dates, which by definition, are open to some leeway. And thats not some die hard, fanboy defence of NT (afterall I own more AD products than NT ones)... but it certainly is a solid "loyalism" to the fine points and strict definitions of the english language.


From the LW11 pre-release FAQs:

"When is the full release of LightWave 11 coming?

We have slated the final release of LightWave 11 to be by the end of the year."

Source: http://www.newtek.com/support/424-lightwave-eleven-prerelease-11.html

That seems to suggest that LW11 was planned for release at the end of 2011.

Rob Powers LW11 release schedule announcement:

"We will complete final tasks and work with our testing groups to find and resolve any issues. Finally, once we have tested the resolutions, we will be ready to deliver the product in late January of 2012."

Source: http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=124824

There seems little confusion over what they are saying in those statements, especially the one from Rob.

biliousfrog
02-01-2012, 06:53 AM
However 'fluffy' previous statements may be, NT are giving potential dates for release when they seem unable to achieve them. It can be argued that they are only estimates or that it's better to have a finished product late than a broken one on time but, from a PR perspective, throwing out dates and missing them is bad news.

Mitja
02-01-2012, 06:58 AM
From the LW11 pre-release FAQs:

"When is the full release of LightWave 11 coming?

We have slated the final release of LightWave 11 to be by the end of the year."

Source: http://www.newtek.com/support/424-lightwave-eleven-prerelease-11.html

That seems to suggest that LW11 was planned for release at the end of 2011.

Rob Powers LW11 release schedule announcement:

"We will complete final tasks and work with our testing groups to find and resolve any issues. Finally, once we have tested the resolutions, we will be ready to deliver the product in late January of 2012."

Source: http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=124824

There seems little confusion over what they are saying in those statements, especially the one from Rob.

"... we will be ready to deliver the product in late January of 2012."
To me that's a precise deadline...
The point here isn't the presumed launch date, rather a matter of coherence. I belive most of users can still wait a manth or so, but... what's the credibility of a company that, after stating what quoted above, doesn't even come out with a press release saying "ok, we said it could be the 31st january, but we'll postpone a little bit more"?

CruiserMori
02-01-2012, 07:11 AM
It can happen, that they are not able deliver what they promised on time (Precise or Estimated). No "problem". What makes me upset is lack of communication from NT. Is it such a big problem to write short message in today world full of electronic devices connected online to the internet??

Cyberfish_Fred
02-01-2012, 07:16 AM
f.i. Worley, you never hear anything (except for some rumours now and then) untill they really have something new to present which can be bought and used immediatly!

That's the way to do it!

Too much bla bla from Newtek!

RebelHill
02-01-2012, 07:20 AM
However 'fluffy' previous statements may be, NT are giving potential dates for release when they seem unable to achieve them. It can be argued that they are only estimates or that it's better to have a finished product late than a broken one on time but, from a PR perspective, throwing out dates and missing them is bad news.

very true I suppose, and Id probably say that those statements (especially Robs) could be construed either way as more/less definite.

Its a tough one though... I mean u gotta give folks some kinda idea of time scales, but without them inferring "promises".

Persoanlly, I love the suffix "ish" for my own purposes, but that doesnt always look like the most professional wording on a press release or brochure I guess.

SBowie
02-01-2012, 07:32 AM
There's always something to be upset about - some knucklehead cut me off in traffic; yesterday my keyboard suddenly decided not to work in Skype while chatting with someone; I've got the day off and it's cloudy; the lineup at the bank moves too slowly. I decided a long time ago my life would be a lot happier if I let minor issues and even offenses slide. I try to view these things as an exercise in developing maturity and patience. When I'm stuck in the dread bank lineup, I chat up the fellow next to me. When cut of in traffic, I ease off on the gas.

So, LW11 is officially about 8 hours late, even though it was extended by a month. Yes, someone should pop in an say, 'sorry, very soon now', but I happen to know that the dev team was literally working well into the night last night, and it's really not their job anyway.

Now, it is a marketing matter, but the fact is that marketing generally takes a methodical, project-based approach to their duties; it doesn't seem to be particularly well positioned to draft instant responses to little niggly last-minute needs (like, for example, a post stating 'A couple of last minute, unexpected issues appeared, and we're going to be a day or two late to allow the fixes to be tested briefly before release'). Sure, I can think of ways to improve on that situation, as no doubt so can you all, but I'm just commenting on the status quo.

In the meantime, I've been given yet another opportunity to show maturity, exercise a little reasonableness ... my personal prediction is 'probably not today (that could happen, but I think it would probably be a mistake), but within a few days, likely before the end of the week'. This is not 'official', but it is 'informed'.

Darth Mole
02-01-2012, 07:42 AM
If anyone here has arranged their entire working life around a piece of complex software being released on a specific day... well, 'optimistic' springs to mind, closely followed by 'moron'. I'll have it when it's done thanks.

OnlineRender
02-01-2012, 07:42 AM
i just want blow some s**t up!

Nicolas Jordan
02-01-2012, 08:16 AM
I already predicted in my own mind LW11 wouldn't see release by the end of the month anyway even if it is done or close to done it will take everyone else responsible for carrying out the remaining tasks a good amount of time to get everything else ready to launch the thing. Not surprising really. :grumpy:

50one
02-01-2012, 08:31 AM
Oh, look there!

A HORSE!


:D

Mitja
02-01-2012, 08:37 AM
And let's face it, without this thread and the "we need vray for lw" one these forums would be really boring!

50one
02-01-2012, 08:44 AM
Yeah, it would be like Google Social network:D

SonicN2O
02-01-2012, 08:49 AM
i just want blow some s**t up!

:agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree:

alexs3d
02-01-2012, 08:55 AM
So, LW11 is officially about 8 hours late, even though it was extended by a month. Yes, someone should pop in an say, 'sorry, very soon now', but I happen to know that the dev team was literally working well into the night last night, and it's really not their job anyway.


the dev team rocks :rock: ... i think the announcement must be planned precisely, so that all are happy when the time is here :)

woohooo :thumbsup:

Bill1955
02-01-2012, 08:57 AM
There's always something to be upset about - some knucklehead cut me off in traffic; yesterday my keyboard suddenly decided not to work in Skype while chatting with someone; I've got the day off and it's cloudy; the lineup at the bank moves too slowly. I decided a long time ago my life would be a lot happier if I let minor issues and even offenses slide. I try to view these things as an exercise in developing maturity and patience. When I'm stuck in the dread bank lineup, I chat up the fellow next to me. When cut of in traffic, I ease off on the gas.

So, LW11 is officially about 8 hours late, even though it was extended by a month. Yes, someone should pop in an say, 'sorry, very soon now', but I happen to know that the dev team was literally working well into the night last night, and it's really not their job anyway.

Now, it is a marketing matter, but the fact is that marketing generally takes a methodical, project-based approach to their duties; it doesn't seem to be particularly well positioned to draft instant responses to little niggly last-minute needs (like, for example, a post stating 'A couple of last minute, unexpected issues appeared, and we're going to be a day or two late to allow the fixes to be tested briefly before release'). Sure, I can think of ways to improve on that situation, as no doubt so can you all, but I'm just commenting on the status quo.

In the meantime, I've been given yet another opportunity to show maturity, exercise a little reasonableness ... my personal prediction is 'probably not today (that could happen, but I think it would probably be a mistake), but within a few days, likely before the end of the week'. This is not 'official', but it is 'informed'.

Another deadline. By the end of the week. So is that the work week. Is it Friday, Saturday or Sunday.

I do agree with you about patience. We need to be patient. As far as maturity, I think that is about time NT shows some maturity. Stop painting yourself into corners with this self impose deadlines and if you do, be mature enough to not wait until you miss a deadline to come up with a new deadline. If you are cutting it close, a week before one of your self imposed deadlines is due, put out a statement saying so. Problem solve.

The big problem here is money. If you ask for money up front then you better meet your deadlines or be prepare to take the well deserve criticism.

If is not about the money and you don't want the criticism then keep your mouth shut until you have a product ready for release then ask for the money.

And if you paid up front you are not as much a moron for posting your opinions as the one that is calling you a moron.

littlewaves
02-01-2012, 09:19 AM
And let's face it, without this thread and the "we need vray for lw" one these forums would be really boring!

we should start an "IKBoost" thread or a "Kurv Studios" thread to liven things up

cybernaut
02-01-2012, 09:29 AM
Another deadline. By the end of the week. So is that the work week. Is it Friday, Saturday or Sunday.

I do agree with you about patience. We need to be patient. As far as maturity, I think that is about time NT shows some maturity. Stop painting yourself into corners with this self impose deadlines and if you do, be mature enough to not wait until you miss a deadline to come up with a new deadline. If you are cutting it close, a week before one of your self imposed deadlines is due, put out a statement saying so. Problem solve.

The big problem here is money. If you ask for money up front then you better meet your deadlines or be prepare to take the well deserve criticism.

If is not about the money and you don't want the criticism then keep your mouth shut until you have a product ready for release then ask for the money.

And if you paid up front you are not as much a moron for posting your opinions as the one that is calling you a moron.

Well said :thumbsup:

dblincoe
02-01-2012, 10:19 AM
:thumbsup::agree:
I'd rather my money be spent in getting it right, stable and ready than rushed, buggy and lame.


Yep, exactly... it's a software. Not a to the second precise broadcast, an important trade show or any other event that's dependant on punctual delivery which people like some of Newtek's users have to deal with. Applying our work premises to the company that creates the tool we work with is simply missing the point - they work in a completely different field than us! Might sounds weird, considering how close our relationship to them feels. But simply because some jobs demand precise hitting of deadlines that does not mean all jobs do.
It seems to be really hard to accept any date given by a software developer as an estimate, although we could have learned by now. Experience is drowned by wishful thinking. Also a little childish to demand the perfect placement of "we assume", "we intend to", "our plan is", "probably by" so as not to 'confuse' us - and any time it's missing it surely must be the date, no matter if it's 2 days from now or half a year.
Well... guess we all just really "WANT!" LW11. :D

Nicolas Jordan
02-01-2012, 10:25 AM
we should start an "IKBoost" thread or a "Kurv Studios" thread to liven things up

Both great ideas! :devil: I miss the old days when there was always interesting a dramatic conversation on these forums even if some of them never really achieved anything. The days of Oddity etc. These forums have definitely deadened a bit over the last couple years but they are still a good resource and serve a purpose.

There is already a great Kurv Studios thread on the Luxology forums for anyone interested. :D :devil:

OnlineRender
02-01-2012, 10:31 AM
maybe I should get a lightwiki plug dropped in , anyway back on track people before this thread goes stupid ... as you where "moaning " :)

btw I have a solution that would let any artist publish and charge whatever they want and view there sales ect ...tis easy!

Nicolas Jordan
02-01-2012, 10:34 AM
Yes, now I can't remember what we were supposed to be moaning about on this thread? :stumped:

SBowie
02-01-2012, 11:24 AM
Another deadline.I think of them more as 'targets' than deadlines. You are, of course, free to see it differently. Personally, I didn't pay yet to 're-up', though I've no doubt I will do so. Had I paid, I'd already have had the pre-release loaded for awhile, which would probably give me some comfort when release targets slip a bit.

Bill1955
02-01-2012, 12:05 PM
I think of them as guesses and prefer if the guessing would stop altogether in exchange for actual factual release dates when its ready for release.

I actually have paid for LW10 and LW11 haven't installed neither one. Looking forward to LW15. Might install a sooner version if it contains something worth using.

Meanwhile I am getting my work done with LW9.6 which will probably carry me through LW15.

dblincoe
02-01-2012, 12:11 PM
I think of them as guesses and prefer if the guessing would stop altogether in exchange for actual factual release dates when its ready for release.

I actually have paid for LW10 and LW11 haven't installed neither one. Looking forward to LW15. Might install a sooner version if it contains something worth using.

Meanwhile I am getting my work done with LW9.6 which will probably carry me through LW15.

Not sure I understand...if you are not going to install the copies you purchase then why complain.

calilifestyle
02-01-2012, 12:20 PM
Maybe he means 11.5. anyway still not out. As for me, i'm not buying 10 just to get 11. Just like i didn't buy HC membership receiver HC1 which ended with lw10 with a sprinkle of HC1 flavoring.

ok never mind he didn't mean 11.5

Bill1955
02-01-2012, 12:29 PM
It is simple. I made a commitment to support the future development of LW. Hopefully at some point they will developed better functions to help me in my work, until then I have no need to install but I still want to support the on going development.

They on the other hand have a commitment to delivered what they say they are going to delivered when they say they are going to delivered it. If they are not then they should keep their mouth shut and avoid all this controversy.

We were not the ones telling them to develop LW11 3 months after they released LW10.1 and demanded of them to deliver by the end of 2011.
They put those demands upon themselves. Doing so they open themselves to criticism and aggregating that even more when they ask for up-front money and then don't deliver.

Things have got to change at NT. It seems that they haven't learn anything from the CORE fiasco.

Just because I criticize what I see as wrong policies and ways of doing business doesn't mean that I don't support the overall effort.

dblincoe
02-01-2012, 12:32 PM
Maybe he means 11.5. anyway still not out. As for me, i'm not buying 10 just to get 11.

Understand, but if you are going to buy the latest releases and not install them because an earlier version is adequate, then why complain about late releases. Don't know how others view it, but imho, the prerelease of LW11 has been very stable and more than adequate and worth the money. Definitely makes waiting for the official release more bearable.

Bill1955
02-01-2012, 12:34 PM
Maybe he means 11.5. anyway still not out. As for me, i'm not buying 10 just to get 11. Just like i didn't buy HC membership receiver HC1 which ended with lw10 with a sprinkle of HC1 flavoring

No I don't mean 11.5 I mean LW15. There might no be an 11.5. The next one might be LW12 in 4 months the way things are moving.

dblincoe
02-01-2012, 12:41 PM
No I don't mean 11.5 I mean LW15. There might no be an 11.5. The next one might be LW12 in 4 months the way things are moving.

Look at it this way...they are not wasting your contribution but making sure it is put to good use by making sure the software is stable. Besides, I would rather Newtek release LW11 officially bug free/stable than rush it out to please someone who won't install it anyway.

coremi
02-01-2012, 12:46 PM
No I don't mean 11.5 I mean LW15. There might no be an 11.5. The next one might be LW12 in 4 months the way things are moving.

I hope you are right, and in this 4 month cycle by the end of the year, LW 15 will start beta, same as Houdini 12, and if they implement things as much as lw 11 compared to lw 10.1 than lw 15 will be on par with Houdini 12 at a very reasonable price. We are the winners :).

Bill1955
02-01-2012, 12:50 PM
Understand, but if you are going to buy the latest releases and not install them because an earlier version is adequate, then why complain about late releases. Don't know how others view it, but imho, the prerelease of LW11 has been very stable and more than adequate and worth the money. Definitely makes waiting for the official release more bearable.

Because they are late releases and they shouldn't be. It should either be release on time or they should stop guessing this release dates, specially since they should have learned by now that they suck at guessing. If they stop guessing then everybody would be happy with their pre-releases until they actually launch the product.

Simple, they stop guessing, we have nothing to complain about.

I am glad that you are happy with the pre-release of LW11. A lot of folks said how stable LW10 was and again how stable LW10.1 was and yet I still read many complaining that they still have roaches in them.

I simply have my plugins which I accrued over the years and some that I have written myself for the work that I do that work fine with 9.6 and don't want take the chance of them not working with this new versions. Until something really worthwhile and innovative comes out of the dev team i really have no reason to upgrade.

So as far as I am concern they could take all the time they want but please stop guessing at deadlines and maybe we can avoid all the controversy.

SBowie
02-01-2012, 01:00 PM
I think of them as guesses and prefer if the guessing would stop altogether in exchange for actual factual release dates when its ready for release.Well, you may be in the minority. Many, I think, want to have at least some sort of notion about when a new release might be expected. If NewTek didn't provide one, I think a lot of people would be on their case for one, since they would quite rightly want to have some idea as they consider their own plans.


I actually have paid for LW10 and LW11 haven't installed neither one. As is entirely your right.

dblincoe
02-01-2012, 01:05 PM
Because they are late releases and they shouldn't be. It should either be release on time or they should stop guessing this release dates, specially since they should have learned by now that they suck at guessing. If they stop guessing then everybody would be happy with their pre-releases until they actually launch the product.

Simple, they stop guessing, we have nothing to complain about.
I am glad that you are happy with the pre-release of LW11. A lot of folks said how stable LW10 was and again how stable LW10.1 was and yet I still read many complaining that they still have roaches in them.
Yes very happy. It has been stable. Yes some issues...but nothing like previous versions.



I simply have my plugins which I accrued over the years and some that I have written myself for the work that I do that work fine with 9.6 and don't want take the chance of them not working with this new versions. Until something really worthwhile and innovative comes out of the dev team i really have no reason to upgrade.

Regarding the plugins...most worked with LW10 (pay attention to 32bit or 64bit mode though). LW11 also has a 32/64bit mode. LW11 also has adjusted its anti-aliasing quite a bit so some plugins will need to be updated.




So as far as I am concern they could take all the time they want but please stop guessing at deadlines and maybe we can avoid all the controversy.
Agree, but this forum is a constant drum in their ears...when? when? when?

SBowie
02-01-2012, 01:05 PM
Simple, they stop guessing, we have nothing to complain about.Perhaps you mean "we have nothing to complain about in that respect" (though I'm not sure even that much is likely). I seriously doubt that any single or even a significant combination of actions on NewTek's part would end all complaining. There are always some who will find a negative way to construe almost anything, no matter how benign.

Bill1955
02-01-2012, 01:07 PM
Look at it this way...they are not wasting your contribution but making sure it is put to good use by making sure the software is stable. Besides, I would rather Newtek release LW11 officially bug free/stable than rush it out to please someone who won't install it anyway.

First of all be realistic, it is never going to be completely bug free or completely stable. It going to be stable enough not to get an uproar from everyone and they are moving on to the next version which will bring more money in.

Second of all I am not asking them to rush anything out. If they set a deadline is because they are confident that they will accomplished their goals by set deadline. That's how I set my deadlines. If I don't meet my deadline once then it might be because of unforeseen circumstances. But if I don't ever meet my deadlines then I would come across to my customers as incompetent. I am sure Newtek doesn't want to be seen by their customers as incompetent.

Again so it is clear to you since to seem to be taken offense that I am speaking out against Newtek, I am no asking them to rush out anything, on the contrary, take your time. What I am asking is for them to stop guessing as to when they are going to delivered because they suck at it and every time they miss a self-imposed deadline(guess), they set themselves up to criticism.

Cageman
02-01-2012, 01:07 PM
So as far as I am concern they could take all the time they want but please stop guessing at deadlines and maybe we can avoid all the controversy.

You are the controversy, not NT. Everyone with just some knowledge of software development know that things do slip. Sometimes more than other times, and sometimes it can be solved within a given estimated deadline.

I would understand your concern if the delay of LW11 would have reached 10 days+ without any communication from NT, but we are currently on day 1 after the targeted release...

So... take a chill-pill, Bill...

:)

dblincoe
02-01-2012, 01:21 PM
First of all be realistic, it is never going to be completely bug free or completely stable. It going to be stable enough not to get an uproar from everyone and they are moving on to the next version which will bring more money in.

Second of all I am not asking them to rush anything out. If they set a deadline is because they are confident that they will accomplished their goals by set deadline. That's how I set my deadlines. If I don't meet my deadline once then it might be because of unforeseen circumstances. But if I don't ever meet my deadlines then I would come across to my customers as incompetent. I am sure Newtek doesn't want to be seen by their customers as incompetent.

Again so it is clear to you since to seem to be taken offense that I am speaking out against Newtek, I am no asking them to rush out anything, on the contrary, take your time. What I am asking is for them to stop guessing as to when they are going to delivered because they suck at it and every time they miss a self-imposed deadline(guess), they set themselves up to criticism.

Perhaps my post should have read "officially release LW11 bug free/stable" instead of "release LW11 officially bug free/stable" but are we here to split hairs? I don't think any software can be deemed totally bug free. But, I think most would appreciate it as bug free as possible...even at the cost of a release date.

I don't take offense to your position and speaking out against Newtek. Release dates are different than client/studio deadlines, though. And as far as I have seen they have been very careful with information regarding LW11 and qualified their statements with "shooting for", "expecting", etc. Again, if you want to split hairs then you could pick apart every post on these threads to find fault.

Bill1955
02-01-2012, 01:24 PM
Yes very happy. It has been stable. Yes some issues...but nothing like previous versions.



Regarding the plugins...most worked with LW10 (pay attention to 32bit or 64bit mode though). LW11 also has a 32/64bit mode. LW11 also has adjusted its anti-aliasing quite a bit so some plugins will need to be updated.


Two good reasons why I choose not to istall at this point. Another been my ongoing work deadlines.





Agree, but this forum is a constant drum in their ears...when? when? when?

We have been spoiled. If they stop guessing over time we will get used to waiting for a major show like SIG for news. When I first started using LW back in the Amiga days thats when I got any info on new releases. That and the VIDEO TOASTER magazine among others.

stevenpalomino
02-01-2012, 01:32 PM
If I've learned anything about LW development and the way NT does PR it's: "Compromise". Deadlines are missed. Good ideas are dropped (or not pursued). The customer (us) stays in the dark. Some of us say, "Oh well.. I rather wait and have a good tool" or "We're all human". We've been so used to being let down that it's become the norm! And then some of you say that it's "immature to complain"?!

Come on!

We're talking about a whole company here. Not little Jimmy selling lemonade and forgetting to give you back your change! Even NT needs standards for professionalism. I understand that complaining about it doesn't make development go faster, but it should. If they realize that they need more developers, then hire more developers! If they realize they have poor PR, hire some PR people! I've stuck with LW because the community is unparalleled. Their support has been unmatched. At the same time, the people that make up this community don't work for NT, so really it has nothing to do with them except for the fact that we're on their website :P

I understand these mistakes are normal. I'm not just about complaints and fussing. I'm just calling NT to higher professionalism standards as a minority in the industry.

ednachman
02-01-2012, 01:34 PM
WOW!!! A full month of whining and and being critical. Surely you must have projects that need tending to finalize. We will get LW11. When? I don't know. What I do know is that this thread should be killed for having the same objections stated over and over again. Go back to work and give it a rest.

Bill1955
02-01-2012, 01:43 PM
You are the controversy, not NT. Everyone with just some knowledge of software development know that things do slip. Sometimes more than other times, and sometimes it can be solved within a given estimated deadline.

I would understand your concern if the delay of LW11 would have reached 10 days+ without any communication from NT, but we are currently on day 1 after the targeted release...

So... take a chill-pill, Bill...

:)

We are not software developers, who cares about having software development knowledge about how things slip.

We are Newtek customers. And as customers we should be able to take info that comes from Newtek at face value, that is if Newtek wants to come across to its customers as trustworthy and reliable.

When they tell us that they plan to delivered at the end of Jan 2012, they as software developers who have the knowledge that in their business things slip should have taken that into account prior to issuing their deadline.

We, as customers only see another missed deadline(guess). It is not a good way of conducting business. And is not 1 day after the targeted release, is 32 days after the original targeted releas.

dblincoe
02-01-2012, 01:43 PM
WOW!!! A full month of whining and and being critical. Surely you must have projects that need tending to finalize. We will get LW11. When? I don't know. What I do know is that this thread should be killed for having the same objections stated over and over again. Go back to work and give it a rest.

Mom? Is that you? :hey:

I was actually thinking that too.

OnlineRender
02-01-2012, 01:48 PM
calls for http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/12/28/128749918518924709.jpg:devil:

dblincoe
02-01-2012, 01:49 PM
We are not software developers, who cares about having software development knowledge about how things slip.

We are Newtek customers. And as customers we should be able to take info that comes from Newtek at face value, that is if Newtek wants to come across to its customers as trustworthy and reliable.

When they tell us that they plan to delivered at the end of Jan 2012, they as software developers who have the knowledge that in their business things slip should have taken that into account prior to issuing their deadline.

We, as customers only see another missed deadline(guess). It is not a good way of conducting business. And is not 1 day after the targeted release, is 32 days after the original targeted releas.

Yes, but after they missed it they did inform us about progress a couple of times.

Some synonyms for "plan": intention, aim, idea, intent, objective, object, goal, target, ambition, suggestion

"Plan" does not mean "will".

Bill1955
02-01-2012, 01:50 PM
I understand these mistakes are normal. I'm not just about complaints and fussing. I'm just calling NT to higher professionalism standards as a minority in the industry.

Thank you. That is all I got to say.

dblincoe
02-01-2012, 01:50 PM
calls for

Officially distracted.

stevenpalomino
02-01-2012, 01:52 PM
Officially distracted.

hahahha

Nicolas Jordan
02-01-2012, 01:59 PM
WOW!!! A full month of whining and and being critical. Surely you must have projects that need tending to finalize.

I was very busy for a long time so I haven't been able to visit the forums much until today. Finished some stuff up and now waiting for feedback from the client. If the LW 11 Trial actually got released today I would have time to evaluate it.

Cageman
02-01-2012, 02:17 PM
I understand these mistakes are normal. I'm not just about complaints and fussing. I'm just calling NT to higher professionalism standards as a minority in the industry.

Deliver on time, or deliver quality.

This happens in VFX all the time, and...surprise surprise, the same is true in with games these days... how many have not seen a VFX-heavy movie that have a bunch of shots that are subpar the standards within the same movie?

So... the question is... how does that happen?

Two things comes to my mind:

1) Budget constraints; you get what you pay for
2) Time ran out; you get what was done, but not polished enough

Do we really want to push NT into any of these two alternatives? Really?

Would you guys prefer if NT did it the Autodesk way; release extremely buggy versions of Maya or Max, then wait 3 months for SP1, and another 3 months for SP2, until you actually can use the software for what you wanted to use it for?

Come on... you guys are silly enough to cry wolf 1 day after the supposed releasedate...?

*sigh*

And Bill... please... if you aren't even using the versions you are crying about, what the heck is your problem? I just don't get it, seriously...

We've been playing around with LW11 for a bunch of months, and we are HAPPY that NT takes their time to get as much right as possible. We will use LW11 for most of the LW-related rendering, thanks to the fact that NT decided to polish, rather than release on time (which was first targeted to be December 2011).

So... again, Thank you NewTek for postponing the releasedate! A couple of more days doesn't hurt; it makes the product stronger.

stevenpalomino
02-01-2012, 02:25 PM
I totally agree with you cageman. I don't think they should rush their products out. I'm merely pointing out that if they're having trouble following through that they should reevaluate their process. If you're late to work by 5 minutes every day, then maybe you should wake up 10 minutes earlier to compensate. Same principle applies here. I'm not just talking about LW11. This has happened before in various arenas of NT. Like I said before. I'd just like to see NT take to higher standards.

sandman300
02-01-2012, 03:00 PM
I'd like to say that I'm personally not mad about the delays, or the lack of information. But if anything, I'm a bit confused. I was under the impression that when I signed up for the hardcore program, that we would be kept in the loop, and not only that but we would have access to betas up until the next version was released. I can't say that I was a huge help in the debugging process but the things that I was waiting for never materialized. Some things have with 11 but I haven't bought the beta, I likely won't until the final release.

Was the hardecore program that much of a failure that it was abandoned like it was? Sure the forums are still there but it might as well be dead.

It would be nice if this delay was partly due to the addition of Bullet Cloth.

calilifestyle
02-01-2012, 04:01 PM
Deliver on time, or deliver quality.

This happens in VFX all the time, and...surprise surprise, the same is true in with games these days... how many have not seen a VFX-heavy movie that have a bunch of shots that are subpar the standards within the same movie?

So... the question is... how does that happen?

Two things comes to my mind:

1) Budget constraints; you get what you pay for
2) Time ran out; you get what was done, but not polished enough

Do we really want to push NT into any of these two alternatives? Really?

Would you guys prefer if NT did it the Autodesk way; release extremely buggy versions of Maya or Max, then wait 3 months for SP1, and another 3 months for SP2, until you actually can use the software for what you wanted to use it for?

Come on... you guys are silly enough to cry wolf 1 day after the supposed releasedate...?

*sigh*

And Bill... please... if you aren't even using the versions you are crying about, what the heck is your problem? I just don't get it, seriously...

We've been playing around with LW11 for a bunch of months, and we are HAPPY that NT takes their time to get as much right as possible. We will use LW11 for most of the LW-related rendering, thanks to the fact that NT decided to polish, rather than release on time (which was first targeted to be December 2011).

So... again, Thank you NewTek for postponing the releasedate! A couple of more days doesn't hurt; it makes the product stronger.

More like a month. they said it would be out at the end of December. But what do i know.

JEFFilm
02-01-2012, 06:36 PM
If I've learned anything about LW development and the way NT does PR it's: "Compromise". Deadlines are missed. Good ideas are dropped (or not pursued). The customer (us) stays in the dark. Some of us say, "Oh well.. I rather wait and have a good tool" or "We're all human". We've been so used to being let down that it's become the norm! And then some of you say that it's "immature to complain"?!

Come on!

We're talking about a whole company here. Not little Jimmy selling lemonade and forgetting to give you back your change! Even NT needs standards for professionalism. I understand that complaining about it doesn't make development go faster, but it should. If they realize that they need more developers, then hire more developers! If they realize they have poor PR, hire some PR people! I've stuck with LW because the community is unparalleled. Their support has been unmatched. At the same time, the people that make up this community don't work for NT, so really it has nothing to do with them except for the fact that we're on their website :P

I understand these mistakes are normal. I'm not just about complaints and fussing. I'm just calling NT to higher professionalism standards as a minority in the industry.

I have to agree - the real problem with Newtek is PR.

Recently went through that with their SpeedEdit program. They refused to publicly state, even on their own forum whether it was going to be developed in the future with another full upgrade. Despite constant asking. Some got tired of waiting, like myself, and took their business to Adobe with Premiere Pro.

If you are going to miss deadlines - it happens. Just keep your customer base informed even if it's just a "we are working on it, not quite there yet....etc." Most people would understand and wait much more patiently. You don't have to give details of the product just basic courtesy updates that show the customer matters.

With Lightwave, I can wait for the 11 upgrade without a problem. But I can certainly see where the no reply from Newtek on their products when questions and/or concerns are being asked is getting old.

JEFFilm
02-01-2012, 06:37 PM
If I've learned anything about LW development and the way NT does PR it's: "Compromise". Deadlines are missed. Good ideas are dropped (or not pursued). The customer (us) stays in the dark. Some of us say, "Oh well.. I rather wait and have a good tool" or "We're all human". We've been so used to being let down that it's become the norm! And then some of you say that it's "immature to complain"?!

Come on!

We're talking about a whole company here. Not little Jimmy selling lemonade and forgetting to give you back your change! Even NT needs standards for professionalism. I understand that complaining about it doesn't make development go faster, but it should. If they realize that they need more developers, then hire more developers! If they realize they have poor PR, hire some PR people! I've stuck with LW because the community is unparalleled. Their support has been unmatched. At the same time, the people that make up this community don't work for NT, so really it has nothing to do with them except for the fact that we're on their website :P

I understand these mistakes are normal. I'm not just about complaints and fussing. I'm just calling NT to higher professionalism standards as a minority in the industry.

I have to agree - the real problem with Newtek is PR.

Recently went through that with their SpeedEdit program. They refused to publicly state, even on their own forum whether it was going to be developed in the future with another full upgrade. Despite constant asking. Some got tired of waiting, like myself, and took their business to Adobe with Premiere Pro.

If you are going to miss deadlines - it happens. Just keep your customer base informed even if it's just a "we are working on it, not quite there yet....etc." Most people would understand and wait much more patiently. You don't have to give details of the product just basic courtesy updates that show the customer matters. This update thread is a start but as the thread title suggests - it needs to be updated a bit more!

With Lightwave, I can wait for the 11 upgrade without a problem. But I can certainly see where the no reply from Newtek on their products when questions and/or concerns are being asked is getting old.

jdomingo
02-01-2012, 07:45 PM
or maybe NT should release it as LW12 instead of 11, so that means LW is ahead of target release date.


still loving LW here. peace

colkai
02-02-2012, 03:30 AM
There are always some who will find a negative way to construe almost anything, no matter how benign.

That's simply not true.. <<runs away>> :tongue:




..Aww cut me a break, I'm doing some mind-numbing documentation here, I needed a chuckle. :thumbsup:

50one
02-02-2012, 03:57 AM
Hey guys, happy groundhog day, happy groundhog day, hopefully we will see the lw 11 soon, hopefully we will se the lw 11 soon, hehe, hehe.

Mitja
02-02-2012, 04:18 AM
The discussion here has totally derailed! We are supposed to discuss about serious things...!!!!
When will LW11 t-shirts be available?! :D

Surrealist.
02-02-2012, 04:20 AM
Hey guys, happy groundhog day, happy groundhog day, hopefully we will see the lw 11 soon, hopefully we will se the lw 11 soon, hehe, hehe.

lol Love that film.

I think there was a post buried in here where Steve said they were working on some last minute stuff. Should not be too long I would think.

50one
02-02-2012, 04:21 AM
lol Love that film.

I think there was a post buried in here where Steve said they were working on some last minute stuff. Should not be too long I would think.

Oh yeah, heard that they're adding a view cube...:)

biliousfrog
02-02-2012, 05:48 AM
I just hope that they don't add so many new features that they drop 11 and announce LW12 instead............*runs for cover*

rcallicotte
02-02-2012, 06:56 AM
LOL:goodluck:


I just hope that they don't add so many new features that they drop 11 and announce LW12 instead............*runs for cover*

-FP-
02-02-2012, 09:43 AM
Thought I'd check in to see if LW11 had been released. I thought it was out already.
Hmm.
Can't say things have changed regarding Newtek's clumsy PR in the last twelve years.
Anyone remember the LW 6 disaster?
It would have been better if 6 had been delayed further rather than released in that state.
It's preferable LW11 is way late than being half-baked and thrown at us.
No point in hastening the tarnish of the tragically waning Lightwave brand.
I don't want to change 3D software at this point.
Colored letters are purty!

gclayton
02-02-2012, 09:46 AM
Hey guys, happy groundhog day, happy groundhog day, hopefully we will see the lw 11 soon, hopefully we will se the lw 11 soon, hehe, hehe.

Nope, LW 11 came out of it's warm cave, saw it's shadow and disappeared for another 6 weeks.

I couldn't resist... :D

sadkkf
02-02-2012, 10:09 AM
The discussion here has totally derailed! We are supposed to discuss about serious things...!!!!
When will LW11 t-shirts be available?! :D

Good one. Since my core shirt never arrived even though I was told it had shipped, I hold as much for hope for an 11 shirt.

calilifestyle
02-02-2012, 10:12 AM
The discussion here has totally derailed! We are supposed to discuss about serious things...!!!!
When will LW11 t-shirts be available?! :D

They are already where. If you went to the VFX you could get one.

50one
02-02-2012, 10:15 AM
Good one. Since my core shirt never arrived even though I was told it had shipped, I hold as much for hope for an 11 shirt.

Aw man, I would feel really bad if I were you, since everyone else got their tees that means you have sponsored someone else shirt, hehe.

sadkkf
02-02-2012, 10:18 AM
I'm feeling the love. :)

Nicolas Jordan
02-02-2012, 10:47 AM
Thought I'd check in to see if LW11 had been released. I thought it was out already.
Hmm.
Can't say things have changed regarding Newtek's clumsy PR in the last twelve years.
Anyone remember the LW 6 disaster?
It would have been better if 6 had been delayed further rather than released in that state.
It's preferable LW11 is way late than being half-baked and thrown at us.
No point in hastening the tarnish of the tragically waning Lightwave brand.
I don't want to change 3D software at this point.
Colored letters are purty!

If I had to take a guess I would say LW11 has been finalized and now we are just waiting for everyone else like marketing etc to get there act together so this thing can launch properly. It's almost as if they weren't aware LW11 was nearing completion and could have been finished any day.

I remember LW10 was a much more smooth release since anyone who bought into it already had the final build in hand before the official release.

Mitja
02-02-2012, 11:28 AM
They are already where. If you went to the VFX you could get one.

yes, a jump there and back home... :thumbsup: BUT with a tshirt!

calilifestyle
02-02-2012, 11:47 AM
If I had to take a guess I would say LW11 has been finalized and now we are just waiting for everyone else like marketing etc to get there act together so this thing can launch properly. It's almost as if they weren't aware LW11 was nearing completion and could have been finished any day.

I remember LW10 was a much more smooth release since anyone who bought into it already had the final build in hand before the official release.

That's kind hard to believe. they had a big event in NOHO For Lightwave 11. they Knew it was coming.

Cageman
02-02-2012, 11:54 AM
More like a month. they said it would be out at the end of December. But what do i know.

Yes... and I did mention that in the post you quoted. :) They communicated to the community that they were going to take January as a month for polish and release in the end of January.

We are now 2 days after the supposed releasedate.

calilifestyle
02-02-2012, 12:00 PM
hehe "2 days after the supposed releasedate." that's funny as if it's not real. i'm ok, i guess i figured after the their last event things where going to change some.

Cageman
02-02-2012, 12:45 PM
hehe "2 days after the supposed releasedate." that's funny as if it's not real. i'm ok, i guess i figured after the their last event things where going to change some.

Ahh... so... when NT do communicate that... "Hey... we want to make it better, therefore, wait another month", you do not "reset" the releasedate?

So... in other words, you are still counting December 31:st as the releasemonth?

NT could have released LW11 at that point, but then you would probably complain about lack of polish on things, right?

So... what would you prefer? I think it is hard to please every user out there with what information is communicated. I prefer to be "in on it", knowing something about when to expect things, and I am totally fine with NT delaying things if they communicate why (which they did when postponing the release of LW11).

I think that, generally, the userbase is OK with these things if communicated, but those who really can't stand NT delaying things, maybe should unplug themselves from the internet and truly live in the dark. After all, the delay is not a punishment towards the users, it is soley based on the fact that NT wanted to push another month into LW11 to polish it as much as they can.

In all honesty, I can not fathom that some users of LW see this as a bad thing.

Bill1955
02-02-2012, 01:28 PM
Cageman you need to stand up straight. Been bent over for to long of a period isn't good for your back.:D

dblincoe
02-02-2012, 01:31 PM
Ahh... so... when NT do communicate that... "Hey... we want to make it better, therefore, wait another month", you do not "reset" the releasedate?

So... in other words, you are still counting December 31:st as the releasemonth?

NT could have released LW11 at that point, but then you would probably complain about lack of polish on things, right?

So... what would you prefer? I think it is hard to please every user out there with what information is communicated. I prefer to be "in on it", knowing something about when to expect things, and I am totally fine with NT delaying things if they communicate why (which they did when postponing the release of LW11).


I think that, generally, the userbase is OK with these things if communicated, but those who really can't stand NT delaying things, maybe should unplug themselves from the internet and truly live in the dark. After all, the delay is not a punishment towards the users, it is soley based on the fact that NT wanted to push another month into LW11 to polish it as much as they can.

In all honesty, I can not fathom that some users of LW see this as a bad thing.

+1 Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.

bobakabob
02-02-2012, 01:55 PM
Gimme my buggy software now so I can whine some more about it being unstable!

lwanmtr
02-02-2012, 02:07 PM
Gimme my buggy software now so I can whine some more about it being unstable!

Must be a fan of Max, then? :lol:

Imatk
02-02-2012, 02:27 PM
In all honesty, I can not fathom that some users of LW see this as a bad thing.

Did Newtek communicate this to the users?

Last I read or heard 11 was supposed to be released at the end of last year.

It's not so much about "users" seeing it as a bad thing, it's about professionalism, and doing what you say you're going to do.

To me this is Newtek's greatest weakness- marketing.

They have never been very good at marketing, and they continue their track record here.

When you say X product is going to be out at a certain time, and then fail to deliver, and then fail to release any information about the delay that's not a good thing... i.e. an email should have been sent out to EVERY user to keep them abreast of the situation.

A release on the Lightwave page should also be added to show people that there is a reason for the delay and why.

Everyone makes mistakes and misses deadlines, but it's HOW you handle those mistakes that people remember.

And I continue to shake my head at how they handle their marketing.

Cageman
02-02-2012, 02:32 PM
And I continue to shake my head at how they handle their marketing.

http://www.newtek.com/features-video.html

Not bad marketing if you ask me.

And, yes, they did communicate the 1 month delay to the community, but, it seems, it was only to the HC-members. So, my bad on that one... I thought it was comminucated to all, which it wasn't.

EDIT: It seems they did communicate to the whole of the LW-community about the January delay.

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=124824

Cageman
02-02-2012, 02:37 PM
Cageman you need to stand up straight. Been bent over for to long of a period isn't good for your back.:D

Unlike you, I actually USE LW11 and LW10.x in production, while you are complaining about tools you never even used.

I can say this though; it was more the devs bending over from the feedback from the users, rather than vice versa. But, of course, you do not know anything about what is going on behind closed doors. :)

The devs have done a great job with LW11; I have to say that there are so many new things and improvements done... for me and what I do at work, LW11 is the best version of LW to date.

Cheers!

:)

Matt
02-02-2012, 02:56 PM
It became clear near the end of December that we needed some more time to test and refine some features, as some additional functionality we really wanted to give you guys was put into some features (many from user requests).

Rather than put it out with little testing (the *wrong* thing to do) we took the better approach of making sure they were up to scratch. Of course that does not mean that we will catch every single issue, that's what patches are for, and every software company does that.

But the extra time means a better LightWave for you.

It is now Gold, and will be shipping pretty soon, dates I don't have as I don't get involved in that side of things, but I imagine very soon, stay tuned, announcements will be forthcoming.

Cageman
02-02-2012, 03:01 PM
It became clear near the end of December that we needed some more time to test and refine some features, as some additional functionality we really wanted to give you guys was put into some features (many from requests from users).

Rather than put it out with little testing (the *wrong* thing to do) we took the better approach of making sure they were up to scratch. Of course that does not mean that we will catch every single issue, that's what patches are for, and every software company does that.

But the extra time means a better LightWave for you.

It is now Gold, and will be shipping pretty soon, dates I don't have as I don't get involved in that side of things, but I imagine very soon, stay tuned, announcements will be forthcoming.

Thanks for chiming in and confirming, and, I do prefer this approach rather than blindly follow a set date for release. :)

JEFFilm
02-02-2012, 03:09 PM
But the extra time means a better LightWave for you.

It is now Gold, and will be shipping pretty soon, dates I don't have as I don't get involved in that side of things, but I imagine very soon, stay tuned, announcements will be forthcoming.


Nice to hear :thumbsup:

lwanmtr
02-02-2012, 03:11 PM
Cool news...glad its gold now. Looks like it may actually be out before i get my money to upgrade...lol

Chuck
02-02-2012, 03:14 PM
Yes... and I did mention that in the post you quoted. :) They communicated to the community that they were going to take January as a month for polish and release in the end of January.

We are now 2 days after the supposed releasedate.

Well, we did in fact take right up to the last minutes of January, as it turns out, but as Matt notes above, the development end of the work is indeed finished. The operations and marketing folks are now in progress on the launch setup activities and production. Once we handoff the product, they set launch dates, etc.

lwanmtr
02-02-2012, 03:16 PM
definately good to hear...will there be tshirts free for the first uhm..1500 to order it? (just covering in case i dont get my money yesterday) hehe

bazsa73
02-02-2012, 03:37 PM
I guess the "whining before release" is part of the rituale. It can be translated as a prayer toward the "deities".

lwanmtr
02-02-2012, 03:47 PM
haha...and on the 7th day they whined and lo did the deities apear and say 'ok, we'll release it'

OnlineRender
02-02-2012, 05:28 PM
Bookie is still open ,edit..

El Tostador
02-02-2012, 06:22 PM
But the extra time means a better LightWave for you.


Sounds good to me!

Philbert
02-02-2012, 07:29 PM
If it's not already picked i'll change my guess to Feb 14th.

Surrealist.
02-02-2012, 08:42 PM
Good news. Looking forward to playing with the new Dynamics and other goodies.