View Full Version : Live video in edit?

10-17-2003, 08:12 AM
Is it possible to put a clip into VT Edit that represents a live feed? My example is a clip that is an open to a segment, and I want the camera to automatically cue on a beat while the music continues to play. I'd like to be able to do it where at that point in the sequence (playing through the DDR) the take happens automatically but the DDR continues to play.

10-17-2003, 08:23 AM
sorry you cant do this in vt3 but suprisingly you can do so in the video toaster flyer system. hhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm come on newtek take a hint

10-17-2003, 09:37 AM
the irony of progress.........................

some things are better, some things are left behind in history........

10-17-2003, 09:44 AM
Just thinking, which is my first problem, but maybe the Flyer gave that option since once you started a project rolling you lost all control of screen and switcher and the Live crouton allowed for a cam patch.
With T(x) since you still have access to everything while a project is playing you can switch manually to a camera.
Just a thought.
But yes I agree that was a sweet addition.

10-17-2003, 01:50 PM
Basically the whole desire is to be able to lay out a script of actions???

play file a
mix to input 2
play file b
crossfade to
play file c
take camera input 5
play file d

Is this what you want to do??
I have been working on Toaster Script for another project and I will dig around some more when I get some time.

10-17-2003, 07:05 PM
A playlist script would be awesome. Maybe someone could write a module for this purpose (hint, hint, Aussie...)

As far as here and now, you could line up your elements on VTEdit timeline, put that On-line, hit play then do you switching to live as needed. The VTEdit timeline should continue to play. You could have your audio preset to do down and under, etc. A couple of rehearsals and you should be able to pull it off...

10-21-2003, 07:24 AM
The typical problem that comes back to bite me (only in rehearsals so far, hopefully it will stay that way) is the clip is ready to go with the cue, I take the clip, the clip gets to the point where I need to go live, so I go live... and the clip stops playing. I have to remember to turn the cue button off. I have actually turned the cue button off too much, and then we are sitting waiting for the clip to go back to live camera when it gets to the end... (that _has_ happened in the live production)

10-21-2003, 10:31 AM
Again I have to say the VT needs to have a cue system built into it... that way you could make up a cue sheet and just hit the space bar to trigger the next action (or by using the GPI you could automate the whole process via Show Control and just sit back and watch your show happen)

With the VT having so many features it is the only way 1 person can sanely run a show alone

10-24-2004, 05:40 PM
Jim Cunningham says this (item 21) in the well-advertised "Top 40 reasons to get VT4":

"Switcher Croutons open up a whole new capability in integrating Live and
Post capabilities. These controls allow the VT-Edit project timeline to
configure switcher inputs, and their status on the Preview, Aux, Main, Key
or DSK busses. This allows VT-Edit to jump to live audio or video sources
and back again."

I interpreted this as meaning that VT4 offers a method to bring live feeds to the VT-Edit timeline (the original thread question), especially based on the last sentence above. This also is inline with NewTek one-liners in their VT4 feature bullets saying "that live sources can be integrated into the VTedit timeline".

However, I received VT4 this weekend and can't find any documentation or methods for doing this... it is easy to assign VTedit output to the switcher however, but the statements above imply more than this...

Any insights on what's new in VT4 as far as being able to bring live sources into VT-edits timeline?

10-24-2004, 05:50 PM
This is a go in VT4 according to press.

It is also in the VT3 to VT4 comparison chart here:

Now how to do it may be another thing.....


ps. and I was just passing on a list that was posted by NT reps.

10-24-2004, 08:10 PM
Could you put VT-Edit into the DSK? Then when the open video outpoint is reached it would cut to transparent and the project audio can trail. With your camera on the program bus it would automatically reveal at that point.

I found it was easier to render the clip with an alpha channel from VT-edit and play the clip from a DDR in the DSK. I've done this sucessfully with show opens and sponsor billboards.

Of course, a switcher crouton in VT-Edit could probably do the same thing, but this should work just as easily.


Paul Lara
10-24-2004, 08:20 PM
I received VT4 this weekend and can't find any documentation or methods for doing this...

The droids you're looking for are located in the VT[4] Utilities folder.
For example, Place 'Main Out' into your timeline, and then using Control Tree you can set what input will be assigned.

Keep in mind that even though this stretches out on the timeline, it's actually a status change, and will continue until another Utility crouton is placed in the project to return the stream to VT-Edit.

10-24-2004, 10:13 PM
Thanks for the tips Paul.. I've tried both the main and preview row video utilities in the time line and then enabled & assigned the input and channel number (1) in the control tree. Still no luck though... no video output from vtedit on this live feed "clip", and the utility icon on the timeline says "no stream". I also have a standard video clip on the timeline that displays OK ahead or behind the live clip. I'm monitoring the live source with a separate monitor (just to confirm the patch is present on the correct switcher channel). My live source is a standard composite camera on channel 1 of the switcher.

10-25-2004, 12:28 AM
Hi All,

I have actuall worked with all of these untilities alot and found that they are useful but have significant limitations...

First realize that these utilities and configs can be setup as subs projects or projects and loaded into DDR's...so if you have a need for quick changes this is nice...just drop that into a DDR and a complete config change can be done with a clip of the mouse..sweet..

But since the VT can't change more than one parameter or setting at a time..it doens't work for setting up overlay keys thru the key bus and changing sources. It first changes the sources then the key or the key then the source.

We really need a double punch ability in VT to allow for this and for virtual set uses!!!!!!

But to add live video into a TED project not a problem...but realize that the utility stays active even after the end points...if you want to have something change then you either have to have another instance of the utility or make changes in the original one...ie: say I want a key ontop...then off...if I setup two key utilities one being on the other being off the key is still actually on...I have to go into the second one and have the key enabled...but bring down the opacity..so that there isn't a key...BUT, if you go past that utility the key snaps back on....to get the key to go out and stay out thru the whole project you either need to stretch the no opacity layer to the end of the project...or make a change in the orignal utility so that it has KFs setup to be full opacity to no opacity...but the key is always enabled....

I hope that makes sense....

These utilities are a nice addon feature thou they have significant limitations and don't work the way that most of us would expect...I hope that at some point better functionality and a more logical workflow with them can be developed ;)


11-03-2004, 04:25 PM
Below is a PM string that describes what I'm trying to do with the live source VT-Edit utility croutons, some input from Paul on how to make it work, and my latest problems with the croutons. Paul is looking into my latest switcher "oscillation" problem described below, but I'm wondering if anyone who has tried to apply these utilities to multi-clip timeline sequences has discovered any solutions or workarounds for the problem I describe at the top of the string below? Also would appreciate insight on how anyone has made the DVE utility work for live sources as I have not had a chance to figure that one out yet.. Thanks


Re: live video utility croutons for ET-Edit


Thanks. Got it working... sort of (I had thought that Vt-edit's actual output changed to display the live source & didn't realize it was just the switcher bus that was switching to the live source). My current problem is as follows: The first instance of a live source in the timeline switches on fine and is stable, then switches back Ok with the second return-to-vtedit crouton, but I'm seeing that any subsequent clip placed after this second crouton tends to oscillate between itself and the prior source, whether it be live or otherwise (ie., the switcher continuously bounces between two sources at approx a one second interval, the "duty cycle" of the oscillation varies greatly). In trying various clip sequences and combinations, the pattern of oscillation consistently occurs on the clip that follows the return-to vtedit crouton.. I've tried both c and y/c sources on channels 2 and 1 respectively, and have used both main and preview bus croutons and get the same result in any case. Also, the switchpoint for these live bus croutons has a very sloppy range on the timeline ..... there can be a skew of a second or more in advance of where the crouton front edge is placed on the timeline, depending on the particular clip arrangements. All this makes my intended use of the croutons pretty unworkable... not sure if I'm just experiencing a very buggy feature or am still missing something.. ?


Re: live video utility croutons for ET-Edit

Yes, Doug, I had a chance to play with it during a demo session at the Western Regional conference for Cable Access, and it worked as I had described it:

- Set a toaster utility to main out, Y/C1 as the source.
- That will then take over from whatever is running in VT-Edit
- when you want it to return to the editor, set another utility crouton at that spot, with VT-Edit set to Main out in Control Tree.

It works.



I am hoping to bring live video sources onto the vt-edit timeline to create a looping timeline sequence to feed to a sort of "information/monitor channel" on a cable TV system (a practical automatic use of the tools while VT isn't being used for other things). I'd like to bring in live cam shots (composite and/or DV) as well as computer screen captures of live web page info via the new scan converter (I can loop this back in as an analog video input if need be). With vt-edit, I could control the sequence, duration, and transition effect for each of these live feed "clips", and hopefully even use scaling to create custom picture-in-picture displays for some live portions of the sequence. I suppose toasterscript could do some of this via the switcher but it would be limited compared to vt-edit's capabilities, and I'd rather avoid the scripting learning curve.

Since this live feed timeline integration is one of the new features Newtek advertises in its VT4 feature list, and was one of the features that caused me to spring for VT4, I was surprised to find zero documentation on it. Hoping it can be done.... your help is much appreciated.