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Captain Chaos
12-20-2011, 01:59 PM
Trying to work out maps for an ice cream cone like this one:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_snGCTxJvhhE/TEAd55PhPpI/AAAAAAAABhA/5GWpYHJYk4Q/s1600/Nutty-Buddy-News-America-+blog.jpg
The part I'm struggling with is the waffle pattern on the cone. I made a simple grid with a cylindrical wrap and of course, got this:

http://nort_comm.tripod.com/art/Screen_shot_2011-12-20_at_3.50.49_PM.png

Any ideas?

JonW
12-20-2011, 02:20 PM
There is some good stuff in this thread.
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=124563

Captain Chaos
12-20-2011, 02:50 PM
Looked through there but it looked like they were doing organic textures that don't have to line up precisely. Did I miss something?

Also wondering how I might model the surface rather than mapping it. Seems like a lot to ask from a bump map.

WilliamVaughan
12-20-2011, 03:13 PM
Looked through there but it looked like they were doing organic textures that don't have to line up precisely. Did I miss something?

Also wondering how I might model the surface rather than mapping it. Seems like a lot to ask from a bump map.



Make a flat ploy with a good number of segments. Without any polys selected... Bevel to create the waffle pattern. Subdivide once. Using the Bend tool in the perspective window wrap the flat shape into the cone shape. Done

XswampyX
12-20-2011, 03:19 PM
It's not a bump map, it's displacement of the mesh.

I would still model it though. :)

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr16/xXswampyXx/ICCone.jpg

WilliamVaughan
12-20-2011, 03:26 PM
Nise setup Swampy!

Here is a quick example of what I was suggesting. I'm no waffle-cone expert but the ones I remember back in the day were flat grided sheets that were rolled into cone shapes like the image here

WilliamVaughan
12-20-2011, 03:29 PM
if it's not a rolled cone then simply use a segmented disc, bevel all polys and taper. done :)

XswampyX
12-20-2011, 04:20 PM
Thanks William.

Here's the whole thing modelled in 4mins.

http://youtu.be/O8kB0VXkHdI

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr16/xXswampyXx/IceCreamCone.jpg

chco2
12-21-2011, 04:03 AM
Nice video!
I would have used Thickener to give the cone thickness, extrude is old skool :D :thumbsup:

COBRASoft
12-21-2011, 06:32 AM
Thickener is cool, should be basic in LW!

XswampyX
12-21-2011, 06:55 AM
Yeah, just showing my age.

Where can I get this great plug-in?

Captain Chaos
12-21-2011, 08:33 AM
The problem with all of these as well as the two or three that I made that way is that the squares get smaller at the bottom. The real thing starts out as a flat sheet that gets rolled to shape, so the size of the squares don't change. Here's a better pic of what I'm talking about:

http://www.capitalcateringsupplies.co.uk/BS%20GF%20Twist2.jpg

WilliamVaughan
12-21-2011, 08:41 AM
easy solution.

Use a linear weightmap on the flat sheet before rolling. Once rolled, use stretch with the falloff set to weightmap and stretch the cone till all squares are same size.

easy peasy.

Captain Chaos
12-21-2011, 09:17 AM
Don't know how to do any of that. I have a very basic knowledge of what a weight map is related to rigging and bones.

I'm honestly not trying to be a smartass by asking this, but should I not be posting here? Seems like all the answers I get are for people who know a lot more about this than I do.

WilliamVaughan
12-21-2011, 09:25 AM
I have a video showing how to use a weightmap and the falloff when modeling

Captain Chaos
12-21-2011, 09:28 AM
Could you give me the link?

WilliamVaughan
12-21-2011, 09:34 AM
Search goes a long way :P

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=37036

Im sure there's more then this one as well

Captain Chaos
12-21-2011, 09:38 AM
Search goes a long way :P

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=37036

Im sure there's more then this one as well

Thanks. It was easier to ask than to search than search for "linear weight map" and plow through a mountain of stuff I don't understand. :D

probiner
12-21-2011, 10:06 AM
Cool thread =)

chco2
12-21-2011, 11:35 AM
http://lightwave3d.nl
Just register 4 free and then you can search for it there or use this link :

http://2lk.nl/2zw

I'ts Thickener 3.5..

Captain Chaos
12-21-2011, 12:02 PM
Search goes a long way :P

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=37036

Im sure there's more then this one as well

I tried what I saw in the video, used linear gradations vertical, horizontal, and diagonally to control the rotate tool. What am i missing? I got this:

http://nort_comm.tripod.com/art/huh.jpg

Captain Chaos
12-21-2011, 01:53 PM
Eerie silence...

probiner
12-21-2011, 08:06 PM
My take on this.

Basicly I took William FX_MetaLink Path.
Unwrapped a Cone, UV2Morph for a flat shap unwrap, Solid Dill > Core the cone-grid-shape like XswampyX did.
Then FX_MetaLink and a Morph, needs cleanup ,but the proportions go nicelly, no shrinking on the bottom.

Would post the object but it's 12MB =/ I know it might be hard to replicate this just from the text =/

Captain Chaos
12-22-2011, 07:05 AM
My take on this.

Basically I took William FX_MetaLink Path.
Unwrapped a Cone, UV2Morph for a flat shape unwrap, Solid Dill > Core the cone-grid-shape like XswampyX did.
Then FX_MetaLink and a Morph, needs cleanup ,but the proportions go nicely, no shrinking on the bottom.

Would post the object but it's 12MB =/ I know it might be hard to replicate this just from the text =/

Looks perfect, but with the exception of solid drill, I don't know what any of those terms mean. Are you using third-party software?

probiner
12-22-2011, 01:25 PM
I'll try to video tutorial here because there are many traps, but won't promise because I'm picky and if it takes more time than what I have now, I'll drop it

Attached is a scene and object file with step by step (which can be null without the video).
In the Scene Hit the 'IKB Calculate' button found in Modify tab > Tools. So it will basically take the Wrapper morphing animation into Dynamics cache and the FX_Metalink on the Cone-Cookie can work. (Trippled N-Gons in the renders to kill artifacts)
In Modeler you can go to layer 11 and activate a Morph called "Wrapped =)" and see the final result.

Check William's video for Metalink: ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/movies/w3dw/mic.mov

Check for plugins as:
UV Creeper (Cylindrical UV jewel)
UV2Morph (The way you can bring a flatten geometry from UV space to 3D Space)
Masked Morph Copy (Modulates a Morph intensity with the 'base', based on a Weight Map)
Weld Strip (Bridge subsitute)

Cheers

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/animatics/Lightwave/making-of-cone2.png

probiner
12-23-2011, 04:54 AM
Did it in one-go, so I get a little lost some times :p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q89GotxY2e4
I think it's a technique that gets asked from time to time and it's hard to put it in just words, so it was and additional incentive to make the video.
It's great for stuff like scales (http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90952&d=1292447072) and coating (http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93570&d=1299882473) in general. One just needs to think like a tailor :D



Plugins featured: UV Creeper (http://www.pictrix.jp/?p=3837), Mesh Reknitter (http://forums.newtek.com/showpost.php?p=1095488&postcount=16), Masked Morph Copy and Weld Strip (Welding Tools) (http://www.kevman3d.com/lightwave.asp?section=plugins&sub=modeler), PLGUV (http://homepage2.nifty.com/nif-hp/index2_english.htm), UV to Morph (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=2491), 2-2 Scale (http://www.pictrix.jp/lw/22scale/), Run Modeler Plugin (http://www.pixsim.co.uk/lightwave_lscripts.html)


Cheers

Captain Chaos
12-23-2011, 02:49 PM
Thanks. I appreciate the effort you put into this. I'm sure I'll be watching it more than a few times. :D

Captain Chaos
12-23-2011, 08:47 PM
Do I need the UV to Morph plug in to do it this way?

probiner
12-23-2011, 09:17 PM
Well you need a flat shape that will wrap into the cone. The easier way I know to get that is to unwrap the shape into a UV and bring that flatten shape to 3D Space from UV space. If you can get another way to get the flat waffle grid wrap into a cone, fine.
Of course the solution I present is a bit more into the technical part. Normally cones don't have a seam like that, it's a bit spiral. you can actually make a bigger cone wrapping, but have inside of it a more rectangular waffle shape.

What issues are you having with the plug or workflow? You could also try also Mental Fish's UV2Morph. I normally have less consistent results, and it unwelds all points, instead of just unwelding the edges like UVtoMorph from Tom Speed. But Mental Fish's one works with 'apply morph'. With Tom Speed's, you have to recapture the morph, like in the video.

Another side note, the MeshReknitter+BkgMorph part could be replaced by using Johan's Conform by UV (http://www.artstorm.net/plugins/conform-by-uv/) using the 'creeper' UV in the video. Less fuss because objects don't need to share point order, just have a common UV.

Cheers

jasonwestmas
12-23-2011, 09:22 PM
If you get a lot of these kinds of projects I would invest in Zbrush. So easy plus you'd get a hell of a displacement and bump map out of it. Which reminds me that it might be good to learn some displacement stuff with a procedural. Not sure if this interests you though.

probiner
12-24-2011, 03:03 AM
Normally cones don't have a seam like that, it's a bit spiral. you can actually make a bigger cone wrapping, but have inside of it a more rectangular waffle shape.

like so :p :
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/animatics/cone-irregular.png

This wrapping wraps 2x around itself, instead of 1x

Philbert
12-24-2011, 07:10 AM
I just stick to the cake cones. :p

jasonwestmas
12-24-2011, 12:10 PM
Hey that's pretty nice Probiner!

Captain Chaos
12-24-2011, 02:34 PM
No issues. Just trying to figure out what to buy to make this happen. I've never used a third-party plug-in before, so this is new territory to me. I made this object for the cone surface:

http://nort_comm.tripod.com/art/cone-surface.png

Seems like it has enough geometry to wrap smoothly. I just need to roll it up without it distorting. I didn't bother giving it thickness since the finished piece is going to have ice cream in it. I can just roll the edge over when I'm done.

XswampyX
12-24-2011, 03:57 PM
This thread is awesome, well done probiner, beyond nice. :thumbsup: You know your cones.

probiner
12-24-2011, 08:58 PM
No issues. Just trying to figure out what to buy to make this happen. I've never used a third-party plug-in before, so this is new territory to me. I made this object for the cone surface:

http://nort_comm.tripod.com/art/cone-surface.png

Seems like it has enough geometry to wrap smoothly. I just need to roll it up without it distorting. I didn't bother giving it thickness since the finished piece is going to have ice cream in it. I can just roll the edge over when I'm done.

All plugins I posted are free (THANK YOU DEVELOPERS!).

That geometry won't wrap smoothly, check the video again. First, merge those clusters of 4xTriagles into a big quad, that point in the middle will give bad results. Second, geometry should be sliced with the Wrapper wireframe for seamless distortion. Third, the bottom of the cone will have more distortion, so you will need more geometry there.

Thanks XswampyX :thumbsup:

Captain Chaos
12-25-2011, 07:39 AM
All plugins I posted are free


that's awesome. So I can just follow what you did as a rote procedure.