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daz1761
12-18-2011, 10:50 AM
I am currently creating a character that is basically a salami sausage, and i am struggling to get close to the reference picture that I am trying to imitate. So far I have used a displacement and bump maps, but I would like to get a finish were the indents are a darker brown than it colour.

I have attached 2 pics, 1 reference and 1 that i have started, hope someone can help. Thanks!

Andrewstopheles
12-18-2011, 11:02 AM
looks like you need some specularity

daz1761
12-18-2011, 11:12 AM
looks like you need some specularity

Thanks, its more of the bump its self i want to get right. The displacement map is a procedural fractal, with a veins texture on the bump channel to try. and give it an indented look.

HolyMonkey-
12-18-2011, 11:13 AM
The reason why your render is off is simply because of your render setup aswell.

To have a good render you dont only need a good texture, but also a good render setup.

His scene has alot to reflect, and he has lights.

Your scene doesn't seem to have anything to reflect nor any proper lights.

What I think you need to do.

Add something to reflect - Put him inside a box with open top and front, and add some texture to the wall and also add in some planes with 100% lumnosity.

Add in a few lamps. 3 point lighting is good. Perspective, back and rim.

Perspective should have shadow and strong light, while the two other can be a bit darker and no shadow. Try to make them equal 100%

50% 25% 25%

You also need to add some spec and reflectivity to your guy. Add an incident angle on a gradient that is plugged into reflectivity and inverted into diffuse.

If you need any clarification let me know. This was just a quick, blabber of info :P

daz1761
12-18-2011, 11:28 AM
Thanks!

That does make sense now, i suppose i thought i could raz off a quick take, import into layout and fiddle with a few textures and have it looking similar as the reference photo!

Im with you most of the way but I didn't quite get your last bit of help, which was "Add an incident angle on a gradient that is plugged into reflectivity and inverted into diffuse."

Thanks again!

RebelHill
12-19-2011, 04:04 AM
bit of an animal...

you can use any black/white/greyscale images as you may have used for bump, or displace, and use them as the opacity input to a mixer node, which will then mix 2 colours (or other colour inputs) as per the map used, this'll let you add different colours to recesses easily.

You could also try an occlusion shader as the input, whic'll let you colour the object based on how recessed or exposed a given area is.

daz1761
12-19-2011, 05:16 AM
bit of an animal...

you can use any black/white/greyscale images as you may have used for bump, or displace, and use them as the opacity input to a mixer node, which will then mix 2 colours (or other colour inputs) as per the map used, this'll let you add different colours to recesses easily.

You could also try an occlusion shader as the input, whic'll let you colour the object based on how recessed or exposed a given area is.

To Spicy for ya...;)

Sounds interesting thanks, i am sort of new to to node editor and I was wondering how I went about it? I have opened the node editor and dragged in what i think i need but have no idea what to connect up

I have attached a picture....

XswampyX
12-19-2011, 05:32 AM
Try mapping the FBM texture into the displacement input. Stretch it in the Y axis to get the wrinkle look.

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr16/xXswampyXx/Pepperami.jpg

daz1761
12-19-2011, 06:34 AM
Good Job!

Thats exactly what i did with the veins, which was stretch the Y to get the wrinkles.

I will have a go, but i cant quite see what nodes etc are being used on your picture.

Sorry to sound silly, but what does FBM stand for?

Thanks

XswampyX
12-19-2011, 07:34 AM
Fractal brownian noise.

daz1761
12-19-2011, 07:43 AM
Thanks

ive had a play around in the node editor , but i cannot see what the last node is before the surface. Also I have used 'ripples', which im not sure is right also.

Here is a screen grab so far...

XswampyX
12-19-2011, 08:01 AM
Woha, step away from the node editor. :)

For the displacement all you need is this. FBM to displacement input. Nothing else for the minute. Colours come later.

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr16/xXswampyXx/pepperami2.jpg

XswampyX
12-19-2011, 08:09 AM
Now we add some reflection.

Use Fresnel node, the invert node. Fresnel -> Reflection and Fresnel -> Invert -> Diffuse.

Double click on the Fresnel node and set it to say 1.5

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr16/xXswampyXx/peperrami3.jpg

XswampyX
12-19-2011, 08:16 AM
Now we make a gradient node. connect the green FMB output to the green Gradient input and take the colour from the gradient into the surface colour input.

Then double click on the gradient and put in a key at pos 1, and change it's colour to peperrami brown.

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr16/xXswampyXx/pepperami4.jpg

It's different than the 1st texture, but I think all the inputs where confusing the issue.

XswampyX
12-19-2011, 08:30 AM
Add another key in the gradient node, and tweak your colours the get the effect you are after.

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr16/xXswampyXx/pepperami5.jpg

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

daz1761
12-19-2011, 10:07 AM
Thanks for all that!

Sadly, the very first node i plugged into the surface doesn't seem to be deforming my model like your. Also, i don't appear to have a Fresnal node either :(

But your demo is spot on and exactly the finish im going for

Im not sure either why my little display in the surface node for my render output is completely black even though my model is white like the way you started yours.

Cheers

XswampyX
12-19-2011, 10:16 AM
It's under math, scalar, fresnel?

daz1761
12-19-2011, 10:20 AM
Gotcha :)

For some reason, my FBM is not doing anything to my model in the vpr or a render, ive made sure everything is default in the surface editor

Thanks

XswampyX
12-19-2011, 10:24 AM
You need to tick enable bump in the second tab of the object layer properties. I have my displacement set to 2mm but yours might vary.

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr16/xXswampyXx/pepperami6.jpg

daz1761
12-19-2011, 10:45 AM
Thats brilliant!

It still didnt work at first, then i realised I had the subdivision order on last because i want to morph with him later, so ive put it onto after bones so it should be ok still.

Ah so if you are using the node editor to displace the geometry, u always need bump enabled

Just about to tackle the colour next :)

Whats the recommended refraction index would you say?

Thanks again :)

XswampyX
12-19-2011, 11:01 AM
I normally start at 1.5 and then adjust it at the end.

You also need to take the bump output of the FBM node and connect it to the bump input on your surface node. This will make the deformation look more detailed than it actually is.

I've also pipe a flake node into the gradient node just to give you some ideas of what can be done. If you set your first key to alpha=0 then the background colour(flake node) will show through.

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr16/xXswampyXx/pepperami7.jpg

daz1761
12-19-2011, 11:09 AM
Thanks again :)

Ive piped everything up as it should be but my peperami is looking a bit different. I know he is about 15m tall, which may not help the cause, i can always scale him down, mind you the wrinkles look perfect just after the FBM, its just soon as everything plugs in it starts looking different.

Cheers

XswampyX
12-19-2011, 11:17 AM
You are reflecting a black background..... It's going to look awful.

Try :- a gradient backdrop, and turn on Global Illumination.

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr16/xXswampyXx/pepperami9.jpg

daz1761
12-19-2011, 11:36 AM
Nice one, just done that but he still looks nothing like yours

Radiosity doesn't have make a difference :)

Thanks again!

XswampyX
12-19-2011, 11:42 AM
Looks like you need to resize your model. Mine is 400mm long. :D

You could change the texture size but it's better to get your model the right size so you can re-use your textures.

daz1761
12-19-2011, 12:01 PM
Nice one, will do that right now!

Cheers

HolyMonkey-
12-19-2011, 12:06 PM
I never thought a turd could look this awesome.. or whatever it is sausage hmm...

daz1761
12-19-2011, 01:15 PM
Ive managed to get the size down but he's looking a lot different than it should, what setting was the flakes set to?

Also, for some reason, whilst ive been back and forth with modeler and layout, everything done after the FMB seems to just dissapear, and I have to reload the nodes? is this something that happens in the node editor?

Many thanks

XswampyX
12-19-2011, 01:18 PM
Don't worry about the flakes for now, just post a render with the FBM displacement only and a plain white 100% diffuse surface.

daz1761
12-19-2011, 01:36 PM
Cheers

Here ya go...

Thanks

XswampyX
12-19-2011, 01:48 PM
Now the reflection... :thumbsup:

daz1761
12-19-2011, 01:52 PM
Over and out :)

XswampyX
12-19-2011, 01:57 PM
Looking good.

You notice he looks really pink? You might think you want to turn off or down your reflections. Don't do it yet. In modeller make a new layer with a plane to act as the floor. Make it dull grey and quite large. The model doesn't have to rest on it, but it will help.

I always save every thing before switching between modeller -> layout and layout -> modeller.

daz1761
12-19-2011, 02:17 PM
Ah, thats better!

Heres another pic..

Cheers

XswampyX
12-19-2011, 02:37 PM
You got it. Can you see what people were saying about giving it something to reflect?

Now your gradient from the FBM(green) into the gradient then out to the colour. Set it black at 0 and brown at 1.

daz1761
12-19-2011, 03:08 PM
Cheers, yes i can now fair doos :)

I have plugged in the colour output from the fbm into the input of the gradient then the gradient from the color to the surface colour but not sure if its correct

I have posted both pics anyway, the node and the peperami

Thanks

XswampyX
12-19-2011, 03:28 PM
No, that's not right.

Take the alpha (this is a number that goes from 0 to 1) from the FBM to the gradient input. Also try to keep the nodes in order as much as you can, looping back on yourself will lead make your head hurt.

Create another key in the gradient at say 0.5 and set it to another brown.

Set the black colour in the gradient to a reddish brown.

daz1761
12-19-2011, 03:50 PM
Good stuff :)

I think its getting there but knowing me ive still done something wrong...

Heres another node and render...

Thanks for the help

XswampyX
12-19-2011, 04:00 PM
Nearly.

Make the black at 0 into the reddybrown and the reddybrown less red.
Then with you model in VPR slide the middle colour up and down, to set your look. :)

daz1761
12-19-2011, 04:03 PM
Nice one ;)

Hows this

XswampyX
12-19-2011, 04:05 PM
Sort of, looks a bit to much like Sh1t. :) but you get the idea.

Now take the bump(blue) from the FBM and connect it to the bump in the surface.

daz1761
12-19-2011, 04:22 PM
hehe, i know, but when the camera zooms out so you can see the whole character it looks ok.

The fbm bump has been been connected all along, my node environment is as it is still in the last post

Cheers!

XswampyX
12-19-2011, 04:24 PM
That's ok then.

Next thing is your lights..... where are they?

daz1761
12-19-2011, 04:45 PM
Ive had a fiddle and stretched the fbm on the Y and it looks even better i think :)

Not got any lights yet except one spot, i was going to put bones in him next and decide what to do about a mouth as i do want to try and morph the mouth somehow.

What lights would you recommend? As i want to do all the lighting and animating in one scene, well this scene then put it in a master scene with duplicates all frolicking about :)

XswampyX
12-19-2011, 04:49 PM
For setting it up at least one distance light.

http://youtu.be/oODy139TB_k

Looks a lot better. Post him when you are finished.

Cheers!

daz1761
12-19-2011, 05:13 PM
Great stuff :) !

Will check out your vid tomorrow! Will defo post the progress as there's lots to do

Thanks a lot for all your help as I've learned a lot about the powerful potential of the node editor

All this work makes me feel like eating a peperami now :)

Cheers!

HolyMonkey-
12-28-2011, 10:59 AM
For setting it up at least one distance light.

http://youtu.be/oODy139TB_k

Looks a lot better. Post him when you are finished.

Cheers!

** Edit **

Since there's no delete function. I just saw your enable bump tab as soon as I finished writing this post.. heh.. Nevermind!!

** Edit **

I actually tried following your tip, but the FBM using the alpha output into the displacement at the first step, it doesn't work. Doesn't add anything at all. I had to cheat with the bump, which doesn't really do the trick.

Any idea why? I am just using a simple sphere with subd on.

Damni