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wtdedula
12-03-2011, 09:02 AM
Hello All;
I am trying to do a very simple task. Intuitively, I think it should work but it seems to be doing something different than I expect. I have a simple subdivided box and am removing one row of points. I would expect the polygons with the deleted points to snap to the next row (So the end becomes slanted) but instead, the whole row of polygons seems to disappear. Why is this happening and what can I do to make it work correctly ? I have attached an illustration to show you exactly what I am doing. Thanks. Tim

evenflcw
12-03-2011, 09:36 AM
Had LW used a different data structure (like winged edge or somesuch) that didn't support open meshes perhaps just deleting the points would work like this... but LW doesn't (and is more flexible albeit more tedious for it). So you have to use the proper command. Select the edges (between the selected points) instead and use the Dissolve command. Some cleanup still needed though... Imho the function could use a few tweaks.

Sensei
12-03-2011, 12:33 PM
You have quad polygons. Pair of points are selected in each such quad. If you remove this pair, quad becomes 2 point polygon on bottom.

JonW
12-03-2011, 01:44 PM
I know it's not ideal. But it your object is square to the XYZ grid. You could select the 2 rows of points & then Set Value to where the second row of points you want to keep are. Then Merge Points.

Greenlaw
12-03-2011, 03:05 PM
In Modeler it's a two-step process:
http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100021&stc=1&d=1322949845

G.

evenflcw
12-03-2011, 04:40 PM
That's neat, but oh, that's a bad implementation! The Remove function, that is. (That I'm assuming you have mapped to your delete key).

The reason is that it is "dissolving" the edges, but "deleting" the points (and polygons). It's two entirely different operations in the same command. I don't care if it's useful, it's wrong! I'm sorry (Ikeda?), but I have alot of problems with ModelerTools.p. The functionality is there, but too often are things mixed up like this.

Greenlaw
12-03-2011, 05:00 PM
...That I'm assuming you have mapped to your delete key).
It's actually mapped that way by default in LW 10.x. In 9.6 and earlier, you had to map it yourself if you wanted this operation.

G.

lertola2
12-03-2011, 05:31 PM
In Modeler it's a two-step process:
http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100021&stc=1&d=1322949845

G.

That is interesting. I did not know about the delete edge command. I would have used the band glue command.

Matt
12-03-2011, 05:34 PM
That's neat, but oh, that's a bad implementation! The Remove function, that is

Yes, it should remove the points also. I'll see if I can prod David to sort that.

Lewis
12-03-2011, 05:36 PM
That's neat, but oh, that's a bad implementation! The Remove function, that is. (That I'm assuming you have mapped to your delete key).

The reason is that it is "dissolving" the edges, but "deleting" the points (and polygons). It's two entirely different operations in the same command. I don't care if it's useful, it's wrong! I'm sorry (Ikeda?), but I have alot of problems with ModelerTools.p. The functionality is there, but too often are things mixed up like this.

It's good idea (Dissolve or Remove tool now mapped to DEL) but basically unfinished tool :(. It should not require manual cleaning of points.

so yeah it should be fixed looong ago but it's not so we need these kind of workarounds to do basic stuff :(.

Greenlaw
12-03-2011, 06:00 PM
I think if I had additionally selected the two edges leading the corner, it would remove/dissolve the whole edge without requiring the second point removal step. Sorry...busy at work and can't check this now.

G.

evenflcw
12-03-2011, 09:28 PM
Actually my critique was not about the two remaining points. They should probably remain. It only looks wrong in this situation. Consider if we had not selected the two outermost edges in that edgeloop. Or imagine the same topology laid flat in the Y axis. It would remove points that imho definitely shouldn't be removed. It would destroys an area that is outside the selection. The right use is what Greenlaw stated.

My critique was instead focused on Remove [Edge] and Dissolve [Edge] being exactly the same. They very likely should be different. Removing points and polygons leave big gaping holes. I'd expect removing edges lead to similar results!? I realize edges are different beasts to points and polygons, but my gut and expectations feel something is not right here. I will have to investigate further.

But if there was something I'd like to see a fix for, then it is how the selection looks when you undo some of these (ModelerTools.p) operations. 1) Select any point on the above box. 2) Run Dissolve. 3) Undo. Rather than the point being selected, it's the polygons around it that are now selected. This is bad, because now the undo action doesn't actually restore the previous state, but infact requires the user to perform an extra two operations to get back to where he were: 1) swap selection mode. 2) select original point. There's also the fact that it destroys whatever polygon selection the user might have had previously. This definitely is not proper.

wrench
12-04-2011, 02:30 PM
I might just weld the points? I'm sure there was a tool (written by James Willmott?) that allowed you to kind of "sew" a whole set of points, so not the start-stop process of welding.

B

Lewis
12-04-2011, 02:55 PM
I might just weld the points?

It's valid solution but then you end up with 2-point polys (lines freaking lines dunno why LW call lines a polys ;)) which needs to be deleted or or you'll have render errors :).

wrench
12-04-2011, 02:58 PM
Sure, but that's part of essential cleanup before you go to Layout anyway - Merge Points, single points not connected to anything, 2-point polys and so on... Do you remember the plugin I was talking about Lewis? I'm sure it came with 9.0 or 9.2 or something...

B

Lewis
12-04-2011, 03:18 PM
Sure, but that's part of essential cleanup before you go to Layout anyway - Merge Points, single points not connected to anything, 2-point polys and so on... Do you remember the plugin I was talking about Lewis? I'm sure it came with 9.0 or 9.2 or something...

B

Isn't that part of JW_edgePack what is now included in modeler as of 10.x ?

Greenlaw
12-04-2011, 04:19 PM
You could just select all your two-point polys from the Polygon Statistics window and press delete.

Lewis
12-04-2011, 04:42 PM
You could just select all your two-point polys from the Polygon Statistics window and press delete.

Ofcourse you can and then you do it few hundred times a day if you work with SubPatches or CCs since it reports error every time when you hit TAB ;).

wrench
12-05-2011, 03:22 AM
Aha! The most excellent Richard Feeney found the thing I was looking for, CP_WeldGroup by Chris Peterson. You need to sew the points together as shown in the first pic, then hit the command (which is an LScript), which will produce the second image, and there are no two-point polys to clean... ;)

It's not one of those tools you need every day, but well worth having when you need it.

B

PS. Oops, it would be good to have a link, right? http://www.lwplugindb.com/Plugin.aspx?id=defe5098