PDA

View Full Version : Newtek does listen! Im almost there to upgrade.



prometheus
11-18-2011, 12:27 PM
I was impressed the first time buying in to hardcore since Rob Powers has a real good power of presenting and selling something, Youré awesome at your presentations.

the road following after that wasnīt that impressive with updates screwing up things for me..(lw10.0 and 10.1 color configs) and (dynamite not working in 10.1)
And here it comes again..yes I felt a little cheated too bla bla..lw 11 is what I wanted for lightwave 10.1 etc.

Anyway..since Newtek done a great job it seems lately, and Rob Being such a good presenter, I am almost there to buy the upgrade..maybe 80% there.

And I like to see that my requests was heard..for instance the fracture tool, since I was complaining about that and couldnīt figure out why tools like crackit etc wasnīt native.

And wow..you heard my request of having lensflares in there in vpr too, that will help me work on nebulas emensly, and I promised long ago to do
some video tutorials on that and put up free, but since I was having those issues with the lw10 and 10.1 versions I just got feed up and lost inspiration working with lightwave privatly, but now I might pick that up again.

and Hypervoxels blending ..great, itīs a start on improving the old timer hv, hopefully we might se distance between particle control gradients too,
and a gradient preset shelf, better yet..different shaders to apply on voxels like a temp fire similar to dynamite.

Bullet and flocking, just great and so is goZ.
The print render utility might come in handy Im working on a product catalog this month to be finished to the transition of next year.

Lotīs of other goodies too, seems to be a really great update:thumbsup:
I have to taste a little on the price thou..80% there.
Anyway..thanks for listening newtek to me and others.:thumbsup:

Michael
http://vimeo.com/user680656/videos

steve0077
11-18-2011, 03:09 PM
Go for it!

evolross
11-18-2011, 03:29 PM
I'm still on the fence too. And I'm a HardCore member. I hesitate and want to wait for LW12 because a lot of the new features in LW11, though great, are offered free elsewhere or I don't essentially need. I can instance now with DP Instance. I can do Bullet in Blender and/or iBounce is looking mighty nice too perhaps with more features (cloth, soft), need to check back in with that project and see where it stands. GoZ isn't a necessity. The render pass improvements aren't much if you already use exrTrader and DP Node/Image Filter.

I am curious about a lot of the smaller workflow improvements. I wanna look into Blender and see how easy it is to actually port your animation over to it, run Bullet physics, and then bring it back in. I'd also be curious if there's any free fracture tools around and/or possibly in Blender.

I'm a little annoyed that if I don't buy LW11, I lose my HardCore discount for good... I didn't understand when I bought in that I HAD to buy every upgrade in order to keep in the program.

Cageman
11-18-2011, 03:30 PM
I can say that the features implemented in LW11 are surprisingly stable and working in most cases. Yes... there are bugs to be squashed and not all tools are developed to where they should be when LW11 is released. Expect to see further refinements if you choose to join the Pre-Release group, or wait for LW11 final.

:)

robpowers3d
11-18-2011, 04:35 PM
Thanks for your feedback! The truth is that we are listening, possibly like never before to our users, studios, and third party developers. The overall goal is to continue to develop great new features in LightWave that get people excited. Features that allow users to get their work done faster and to a higher quality level. We look forward to continuing to impress you with what we have planned.

AbstractTech3D
11-18-2011, 05:14 PM
I'm still on the fence too. And I'm a HardCore member. I hesitate and want to wait for LW12 because a lot of the new features in LW11, though great, are offered free elsewhere or I don't essentially need. I can instance now with DP Instance. I can do Bullet in Blender and/or iBounce is looking mighty nice too perhaps with more features (cloth, soft), need to check back in with that project and see where it stands. GoZ isn't a necessity. The render pass improvements aren't much if you already use exrTrader and DP Node/Image Filter.

I am curious about a lot of the smaller workflow improvements. I wanna look into Blender and see how easy it is to actually port your animation over to it, run Bullet physics, and then bring it back in. I'd also be curious if there's any free fracture tools around and/or possibly in Blender.

I'm a little annoyed that if I don't buy LW11, I lose my HardCore discount for good... I didn't understand when I bought in that I HAD to buy every upgrade in order to keep in the program.

My position exactly!

Cageman
11-18-2011, 05:26 PM
Thanks for your feedback! The truth is that we are listening, possibly like never before to our users, studios, and third party developers. The overall goal is to continue to develop great new features in LightWave that get people excited. Features that allow users to get their work done faster and to a higher quality level. We look forward to continuing to impress you with what we have planned.

Yes!

SBowie
11-18-2011, 08:19 PM
I'm a little annoyed that if I don't buy LW11, I lose my HardCore discount for good... I didn't understand when I bought in that I HAD to buy every upgrade in order to keep in the program.The 5-upgrade special pricing was not originally part of the HC package deal (I checked the announcements to make sure). Initially, the HC buy-in price was to be extended for the first upgrade only. This changed later (July, 2010) as an unexpected bonus. The following is a partial quote from announcement where it was first revealed (there was a similar paragraph about the $495 specials):

07-23-2010
Charter HARDCORE Members
*Next five upgrades $395US (if you let it lapse the upgrade price goes to $695US or the current retail price)
* Purchase each new upgrade (within grace period) and HardCORE membership remains active

We-Co
11-18-2011, 08:50 PM
I'm very impressed with what they're doing in LW 11. But still haven't see anything with rigging/animation. BUT GoZ is gotta be my fav. Yum, yum -- that's good.

evolross
11-18-2011, 09:14 PM
@Rob - The new features are great. Updates to dynamics and hypervoxels are at the top of my list. Keep up the good work. I would input that future updates have a focus on features that aren't accessible through 3rd party plugins. Work on the deep stuff that only the LW team can bring to the table! Leave the low-hanging fruit to the plugin community. I'm sure you guys have lots of ideas brewing.

@Steve - I actually joined HC in July 2010 so the five-upgrade benefit was one of the major factors to join. Thank you though for showing that you guys implicitly spelled out how it was going to work, that had slipped my memory. :)

In my defense, I wasn't expecting paid upgrades to come so fast... this IS something new from Newtek. And I have to wonder, how many HC memberships will get vaporized due to this new, faster release schedule.

Are you able to say if the new standard/goal will be a paid annual LW release? If it is, which I assume it is as this will theoretically raise more revenue if the existing customer-base all upgrades, I have to say this seems like customer-base will now start getting LESS technology for the SAME amount of money since you're charging the same upgrade prices as you would for the older two-year, multi-point releases. Actually, if you're HC then the cheaper upgrade price offsets this. But if you're not HC or your HC membership vaporizes due to not upgrading... well, seems like less for more.

However, despite it being a quick release, it seems like it's pretty feature-packed. So hopefully, Newtek will do more in less time as far as development goes. I would LOVE that! More technology, faster would be great and I'd be happy to pay for it.

I've personally made a lot of money from Lightwave and overall, I'm really happy with where it's going, despite my little rant above. And I'll probably upgrade to LW11 and keep my discount alive and well, I just needed to fuss a little. Overall, what's happening here is good.

:newtek::thumbsup:

Snosrap
11-18-2011, 10:04 PM
11 is a nice release for sure especially for me as a hobbiest. For my day job however it's not as great. We do very little animation so Bullet and Flocking will be of little use. On the other hand the new render sampling, better resolving VPR and shift-click in VPR to select surfaces are super nice.:thumbsup: I will be recommending to managment that we upgrade our seats based off those improvements alone. BTW, I think the new linear color workflow has been the best improvement to LW in years. I'll give NT a pass on no real modeler enhancements this go around just because I got a good glimpse of the possibilities in Core so they know what the issues are have the know how to correct them, but we really need to see something soon as Modeler is getting long in the tooth.

We-Co
11-18-2011, 10:11 PM
11 is a nice release for sure especially for me as a hobbiest. For my day job however it's not as great. We do very little animation so Bullet and Flocking will be of little use. On the other hand the new render sampling, better resolving VPR and shift-click in VPR to select surfaces are super nice.:thumbsup: I will be recommending to managment that we upgrade our seats based off those improvements alone. BTW, I think the new linear color workflow has been the best improvement to LW in years. I'll give NT a pass on no real modeler enhancements this go around just because I got a good glimpse of the possibilities in Core so they know what the issues are have the know how to correct them, but we really need to see something soon as Modeler is getting long in the tooth.

I used to think why fix something that's not broken. But now I'm thinking they do need to do something with modeler also. Although I will also add I can make a pretty realistic head around 30 mins in modeler, which is what I use it for. Sooo... I dunno.

Snosrap
11-18-2011, 10:29 PM
I used to think why fix something that's not broken. But now I'm thinking they do need to do something with modeler also. Although I will also add I can make a pretty realistic head around 30 mins in modeler, which is what I use it for. Sooo... I dunno. I really like Modeler. Working in it is super easy and simple and workflows are above average. I'm in it 8-10 hrs a day and am extreemly well versed in its capabilities. But - there are huge issues with poly pushing performance and tool consolidation. I could go on and on about the issues with Modeler, but at it's basic level it's got an almost perfect design. I made this picture frame http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=123359 and this medallion thing http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=92450 entirely in Modeler and they both brought it to its knees. Core has no issues with them at all - fast as heck. :hey: So if that tech gets into Modeler we will be in good shape.

silviotoledo
11-19-2011, 06:21 AM
Oh please impress us a little more :)

Give us Bullet cloth and softbodies. Hardbody is not sufficient and cloth is extremelly necessary for characters.

Cloth FX is not usefull for doing a tshirt.

Actually, without syflex support to LW 10 and LW 11, lightwave have no cloth simulation and we would have to calculate in maya n-cloth, Xsi (syflex ) or marvelous. Too painfull get back as MDD.





Realtime NVIDIA realistic hair simulation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l5dCkWd4Wo

Realtime amazing softbodies PhysX: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMQDPLcqt8s

Bullet Softbodies ( carrara ): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43fjdqyGa6Q

UnCommonGrafx
11-19-2011, 06:36 AM
I've been reading and cloth IS there now, with Bullet.



Oh please impress us a little more :)

Give us Bullet cloth and softbodies.

silviotoledo
11-19-2011, 04:34 PM
From ELEVEN FEATURES:

" Bullet is a fast, production proven, open source physics engine that is used in many high profile, effects-driven films and real-time game engines. Bullet features 3D rigid body dynamics originally created by Erwin Coumans.

LightWave 11 features the Bullet dynamics engine directly in Layout so that it can be used with the new Fracture tool in Modeler to create compelling physics-based animation. Things like collapsing buildings, explosions, and even natural placement of items in a random pattern, would otherwise be difficult to do by hand."

it reffers to HARD only. I've not seen any soft sample yet :(.

Is it there????

Snosrap
11-19-2011, 05:52 PM
From ELEVEN FEATURES:

" Bullet is a fast, production proven, open source physics engine that is used in many high profile, effects-driven films and real-time game engines. Bullet features 3D rigid body dynamics originally created by Erwin Coumans.

LightWave 11 features the Bullet dynamics engine directly in Layout so that it can be used with the new Fracture tool in Modeler to create compelling physics-based animation. Things like collapsing buildings, explosions, and even natural placement of items in a random pattern, would otherwise be difficult to do by hand."

it reffers to HARD only. I've not seen any soft sample yet :(.

Is it there???? Here's a sample of it that I did. It's there just not a ton of controls for it yet. :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=XSgg2qi-wvU

We-Co
11-19-2011, 08:00 PM
Looks pretty good to me. As do you other tests. Thanks for sharing.

prometheus
11-20-2011, 08:52 AM
Well I placed an order throu my account sent to my mail, so itīs now in the shopping chart, however I guess it will take a long time before I can receive a copy.

I currently have no credit card and for the moment I only transfer through my personal internet bank.

I also sent a mail to [email protected] and asked how to solve this.

I want it so soon.

Michael

IgnusFast
11-20-2011, 09:27 AM
I really like Modeler. Working in it is super easy and simple and workflows are above average. I'm in it 8-10 hrs a day and am extreemly well versed in its capabilities. But - there are huge issues with poly pushing performance and tool consolidation. I could go on and on about the issues with Modeler, but at it's basic level it's got an almost perfect design. I made this picture frame http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=123359 and this medallion thing http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=92450 entirely in Modeler and they both brought it to its knees. Core has no issues with them at all - fast as heck. :hey: So if that tech gets into Modeler we will be in good shape.

I'm with you guys - Modeler desperately needs some love. The UI works well, but is incredibly slow. Especially with transparency turned on. And I know this is an unpopular view, but I still think lights belong on objects in Modeler. :)

Philbert
11-22-2011, 06:27 PM
I still don't expect to ever see improvements to Modeler, as much as I want them. I just suspect they will start moving modeling tools to Layout and let Modeler eventually die out.

We-Co
11-22-2011, 06:30 PM
I still don't expect to ever see improvements to Modeler, as much as I want them. I just suspect they will start moving modeling tools to Layout and let Modeler eventually die out.

I was hoping the other way around. VPR, hypervoxels, and other things from layout would be awesome in Modeler. I could care less if Layout goes and Modeler stays.

Philbert
11-22-2011, 06:32 PM
Well with all of the years of work they've been putting into Layout and almost none into Modeler, that's just what it looks like is happening to me. In fact they already attempted to add some modeling type tools into Layout. (sort of)

We-Co
11-22-2011, 06:36 PM
Well with all of the years of work they've been putting into Layout and almost none into Modeler, that's just what it looks like is happening to me. In fact they already attempted to add some modeling type tools into Layout. (sort of)

Yeah and they're pretty horrible lol. Best thing since LW 10.1 was VPR, Linear color space/sRGB, and Fiber FX(which I still haven't used, but people say it's good). The new stuff in LW 11 looks great, but honestly only thing I'll be using is GoZ.

Snosrap
11-22-2011, 06:49 PM
I still don't expect to ever see improvements to Modeler, as much as I want them. I just suspect they will start moving modeling tools to Layout and let Modeler eventually die out.

I for one wish they would replace Modeler with the underlying code base that was Core. Get that up and running real good and migrate Layout functionality into that. To get the things we all want the nuts and bolts behind the curtain needs to be replaced. The engine under Core's hood was really fast and the things that could be connected to each other via the connection editor was insane. Take that engine and layer it with a Modeler interface and familar workflows and slowly put in the layout functionality and everyone's a winner.

Philbert
11-22-2011, 06:50 PM
Funny thing is I have no use for goz since the 3DC - LightWave AppLink has already been out for quite some time, so that's the feature I'm least looking forward to.


I for one wish they would replace Modeler with the underlying code base that was Core. Get that up and running real good and migrate Layout functionality into that. To get the things we all want the nuts and bolts behind the curtain needs to be replaced. The engine under Core's hood was really fast and the things that could be connected to each other via the connection editor was insane. Take that engine and layer it with a Modeler interface and familar workflows and slowly put in the layout functionality and everyone's a winner.


This sounds like a fantastic idea.

blugenwitz
11-23-2011, 04:57 PM
To be honest, I feel that LW is on good track. Suddenly site becomes attractive, and preview of LW 11 looks very tempting. Maybe it will be good idea to upgrade from 9.6. Good Job Newtek.

jasonwestmas
11-23-2011, 05:32 PM
I'm definitely interested in the rendering improvements like the new AA and renderpass stuff. I haven't used it yet but if the new AA is as good as people are saying it is I would buy LW11 just for that. As for the other features I'm just glad they are Native now, that means stability to me and if I need more specialized focuses for any effects that go beyond the scope of what NT has to offer I'll always have the options to look at some 3rd Party solutions.

I have to say though I won't be animating in LW any time soon, there are just too many other tools that do the job better and more efficiently. The entire LW keyframing and UI workflow has gotta get a major face lift. So thank goodness for point cache.


I was very impressed with the "what's new" information, that was definitely one of my requests.

prometheus
11-24-2011, 08:46 AM
Maybe I Was wrong with this thread, do they listen?

Hey guys!!
Ivé placed an order for LW11 finally this sunday, do newtek want my money or what?

I still need a confirmation or download link or payment guiding here, but [email protected] and [email protected] hasnīt replied yet

Maybe Im to eager and they are too busy and thanksgiving or what, or did I do something wrong when I added it to my chart??

Michael

We-Co
11-24-2011, 12:19 PM
Maybe I Was wrong with this thread, do they listen?

Hey guys!!
Ivé placed an order for LW11 finally this sunday, do newtek want my money or what?

I still need a confirmation or download link or payment guiding here, but [email protected] and [email protected] hasnīt replied yet

Maybe Im to eager and they are too busy and thanksgiving or what, or did I do something wrong when I added it to my chart??

Michael

Yeah it is Thanksgiving man. They're probably at home with their families.

lwaddict
11-24-2011, 03:19 PM
Ok, I passed on 10/Core...
mostly since I can get the job I do done without it.

But now I've seen the videos for 11 and just plain want it.

If I buy the upgrade to 10 now at 695...
Does that get me 11 upon release or should I just wait?

Help?
I thought I was hungry from the smell of that turkey in the oven but
NOW I'm hungry for LW11.

prometheus
11-24-2011, 03:26 PM
Yeah it is Thanksgiving man. They're probably at home with their families.

Blah..thanksgiving..we donīt have that here, we need more holidays I guess.
On the other hand, I could skip all those special holidays and rather work by the 3-3 rule, you work three days, then free three days, then again and again all around the year.
I think some economic professor calculated that the estimated working hours would be the same as an ordinary 8-17 working day, but that is if you remove the holidays.

I would really like to work that way thou, i think people would have more energy and would be less stressed if such system could work on many jobs.

However, I am now stressed because of the thanksgiving and me not getting hold of the new LW 11 release.:(

Oh well.

Michael

Sekhar
11-24-2011, 07:00 PM
Blah..thanksgiving..we donīt have that here, we need more holidays I guess.
OK, you're from Europe, where people get an insane number of paid leave/holidays; and you're complaining about USA that has probably the longest work hours and fewest days off? :devil:

prometheus
11-24-2011, 11:22 PM
OK, you're from Europe, where people get an insane number of paid leave/holidays; and you're complaining about USA that has probably the longest work hours and fewest days off? :devil:

insane number? I donīt think so, do you have any statistic for that?
Maybe youré right I havenīt done the counting thou, but donīt we all wanīt more:D
Im more complaining of the timing of the holiday...in the middle of rush hour of the release of Lw 11.

Michael

Sekhar
11-24-2011, 11:42 PM
insane number? I donīt think so, do you have any statistic for that?
Maybe youré right I havenīt done the counting thou, but donīt we all wanīt more:D
Im more complaining of the timing of the holiday...in the middle of rush hour of the release of Lw 11.

Michael
Sure, check out these stats (http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/01/31/paid-holidaysvacation-days-in-the-u-s-versus-other-oecd-countries/). Most businesses here close only for two holidays really: Thanksgiving and Christmas. Anyway, I was only half-serious...I know you're itching to lay hands on 11, and I can't blame you.

prometheus
11-25-2011, 12:59 AM
Sure, check out these stats (http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/01/31/paid-holidaysvacation-days-in-the-u-s-versus-other-oecd-countries/). Most businesses here close only for two holidays really: Thanksgiving and Christmas. Anyway, I was only half-serious...I know you're itching to lay hands on 11, and I can't blame you.

yeah I understand you right..
Anyway..interesting, that statistic donīt seem quite accurate thou, in sweden thereīs a statistic of 25 days, but when I check(wiki) I only see 21 days, a little more than 10 for usa thou.

however, 12 of these holidays are not static depending on date, so sometimes we "loose" them as free days, this all saints eve was on friday here and all saints day was on saturday, and those are not free days
by law, only if you have a collective agreement.

so in my case I didnīt get those two days off..and similar might be with other holiday days occouring on dates where you wont be able to utilize it.

In fact the whitson eve was on saturday and sunday 11th and 12th june, so I didnīt get those either...and the midsommers day was on saturday the 25 june and that is missed too.
Also the easter the 23 april was lost too since that was on a saturday.

so that narrows it down from 21 to 15 days this year so far.
I donīt know how static the holidays are in USA thou.

The parental leave might be shocking thou, at least it is for me complaining since I donīt have any kids.
a single parent could have 18 months of parental leave.

Michael

EmperorPete
11-26-2011, 12:03 PM
I skipped LW10, and after all the problems & changes I'm glad I did. However LW11 is definitely looking good so it looks like I'll be sticking with NT after all. Time to start saving, methinks!