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View Full Version : Help from the pros needed...moving the camera thru a gooey substance



dblincoe
10-19-2011, 03:21 PM
Ok, gooey is not a medical term, but I am making a medical animation that the camera needs to move thru a gooey substance. Think chunky jello.

What do you think is the best way to do this. I've tried hypervoxels but can't get the look right and it falls apart when the camera is moving thru the substance.

Any ideas? Liquid sim? Morphs? others?

Thanks a bunch for your help! :help:

Afalk
10-20-2011, 02:43 AM
Have any reference images on "how" you need this substance to look? That would help a lot in coming up w/approaches.

AF

biliousfrog
10-20-2011, 08:48 AM
Some form of reference would be useful. If the substance is mostly a liquid then it could be quite tricky as there isn't anything for the viewer to reference when moving through it...think of footage shot underwater, the only clue as to where the footage is is the other objects in the same environment such as fish, plankton, coral etc.

If the 'chunks' are quite thick and the camera would push them aside rather than through you could create the lumps, create a morphed tunnel through them and have them be pushed away as you go through. This offers a way to control it: http://youtu.be/vYUM7Vg3Bvw

If you need to be in the substance, perhaps use small particles, bubbles etc. inside it and be sure to have refraction enabled to distort the environment around it. Some sort of animated bump or displacement will create the gloopy refractions.

BlueApple
10-20-2011, 09:03 AM
Agree with the first two responders- get some reference of what you want it to look like and you will be half way to your solution. My guess is that you want some kind of particulate suspended in the environment. Also, like biliousfrog said, what the light looks like on the interior walls may help sell the look.

dblincoe
10-20-2011, 10:20 AM
Wow thanks everyone for your replies! See the attached for a reference.
Think firm jello chunks in a slightly liquified jello.

I've tried hypervoxels and I just couldn't get it to look right. From the outside it was close but really fell apart when the camera traveled thru it.

I think the morph approach and the suspended particulates will work. Off to more testing...

If you have any other ideas keep them coming! It will probably be a mixture of everything!


Thanks all!

mummyman
10-20-2011, 02:59 PM
Is this just a fast transition to another level of detail? If so, you can use "cheats" in After Effects using animated fractal noises. Or a seperate layer of spheres that match the coloring and blur the hell out of them and move them past the camera. That could yield some great results if done fast.

Dexter2999
10-20-2011, 06:02 PM
The problem with the reference is that it is the surface which has the light reflected on it. Like the difference between shooting the oceans surface and shooting underwater, your final product won't/shouldn't match.

The light inside the substance would probably be diffuse and devoid of high lights.

dblincoe
10-20-2011, 06:39 PM
The problem with the reference is that it is the surface which has the light reflected on it. Like the difference between shooting the oceans surface and shooting underwater, your final product won't/shouldn't match.

The light inside the substance would probably be diffuse and devoid of high lights.

Yes...however this "liquid" has some particles and clumps that are more firm or denser than the liquid portion. Also the Dr. that I am working with often refers to it as glistening and glowing.
True that the inside will look different than the outside. I'll try to post some of my attempts soon.

Thanks for your help!

nickdigital
10-20-2011, 06:43 PM
Maybe you can have a point cloud with hypervoxels on them. Then parent a collision object to the front of your camera so you can push the particles to the side.

You could also try parenting a poly to the front of your camera with a procedural texture that's set to World Co-ords. Then as your poly moves through the scene the procedural will change...as if you're moving through liquid.

dblincoe
10-20-2011, 06:47 PM
Hey Nickdigital,


Maybe you can have a point cloud with hypervoxels on them. Then parent a collision object to the front of your camera so you can push the particles to the side.

I have something like that rendering now. I'll let you know how it works.


You could also try parenting a poly to the front of your camera with a procedural texture that's set to World Co-ords. Then as your poly moves through the scene the procedural will change...as if you're moving through liquid.

That's something new to try and add. I'm thinking all of these ideas will be layered upon each other with some after effects trickery.

GregMalick
10-20-2011, 07:16 PM
looking at your picture, I would think that modeling it would be the best way. then as you enter the liquid, you would see the big chunks drifting by. You could even add smaller chunks in the liquid so the viewer would have a frame of reference. Probably a lot more control of the surface with actual objects.

Just jitter the points on some subD objects a couple times.
The chunks can have one material surface and the liquid another.

Am i missing something here?

dblincoe
10-20-2011, 09:16 PM
http://youtu.be/DY5Ludf-V9Q

OK...
Here is my latest test. This is hypervoxels. Movement is a morph target controlled by normal displacement. Interesting. Not exactly what I wanted but actually might be useful in some manner.

This was just to see if the hypervoxels would hold up with the camera moving thru them. The texture needs work.

Dexter2999
10-20-2011, 09:57 PM
The look is interesting. I like the tiny particle reflections.

Maybe a collision object parented to the camera so the stuff moves around it? Perhaps the collision object would have a viscosity? (Not sure about that.) But to indicate "gooey" the movement should be slow to indicate a high viscosity of the substance. When the camera (and maybe collision object) move through the substance the large particles should seem hesitant to move out of the way.

Just kinda thinkin' out loud here.

Afalk
10-21-2011, 12:38 AM
Good point on the last Dexter. I like where you've gone w/this so far. I'd try to some random vibration to those HV particles and definitely slow things down.

dblincoe
10-21-2011, 01:37 PM
The look is interesting. I like the tiny particle reflections.

Maybe a collision object parented to the camera so the stuff moves around it? Perhaps the collision object would have a viscosity? (Not sure about that.) But to indicate "gooey" the movement should be slow to indicate a high viscosity of the substance. When the camera (and maybe collision object) move through the substance the large particles should seem hesitant to move out of the way.

Just kinda thinkin' out loud here.

Yeah. Things seem a little rigid and a little "ordered" or mechanical in the way the particles move. I'm trying a collision object just in front of the lens to move the particles out of the way. I'll try to post a video soon.

Thanks for your help!
-Dan

OnlineRender
10-21-2011, 03:09 PM
in reference to Yt video it looks more like its pushing the goo rather than going threw ...............
needs to get masked and comped with layers with opacity getting weaker every step

dblincoe
10-21-2011, 03:26 PM
in reference to Yt video it looks more like its pushing the goo rather than going threw ...............
needs to get masked and comped with layers with opacity getting weaker every step

Indeed. The particles are avoiding the camera. Hypervoxels do some weird things when the camera enters within the voxel. I'm working on other particulates and "fluid" to fill the void left by the particles that moved out of the way.

I my try a version where the hypervoxels fade based on distance from camera instead of moving away from the camera. Stay tuned and thanks for the help!
-Dan