PDA

View Full Version : CG Industry



jrjohannes
10-15-2011, 05:03 PM
How much and in what manner does the CG Industry share with private companies?

For example, does SIGGRAPH provide OPEN opportunities for private companies or individual developers to learn the latest industry information?

Does SIGGRAPH Lead with innovations and breakthroughs or does it simply provide an opportunity for individuals and companies to share or NOT what the will?

In other words, is SIGGRAPH only a "Trade Show" or does it function as a Consortium where there's an objective of participating in a common activity or pooling their resources?

Thanks in advance to those who know,
Jason

nickdigital
10-15-2011, 06:09 PM
I know papers are released at Siggraph talking about new technology. You're not going to find the actual technology up for grabs though. Unless it's Open Source.

A studio might show off how they did an effect in a movie or something like that. Don't expect them to be handing out the actual files for people to play with.

From my point of view Siggraph is more of an event where industry people can come together to share and show off stuff. It's not really the source of everything CG.

LW_Will
10-15-2011, 09:41 PM
I disagree Nick, the opensource end of the community and the papers from SIGGRAPH seem to me to be the best and most prodigious way of getting idea and concepts into industry. There have been papers at SIGGRAPH that have come out in 2-3 years as active products in Lightwave, After Effects, Nuke and countless others.

I mean, there is the Disney and PIXAR papers. The Sony/ILM's open source Alembic, ILM's OpenEXR, and even Disney making an Open Source character... to standardize all of the motion from a 3D character.

While I agree that the entity that SIGGRAPH is does not do these things in an active manner, I think the academic nature of the research from academia and the big companies give a process to the nature of development.

The papers are reviewed if I'm not mistaken, published on the web and in journals, and presented for the industry and academia.

Just my .02!

jrjohannes
10-16-2011, 09:15 AM
Thank you guys for this discussion and your information.

Here is what I'm understanding so far:

1. Original 3D Pioneering/Engineering comes from Universities. This goes back to the 1970s for all practical purposes.

2. SIGGRAPH begins about 1974

3. 1979, Lucas Film starts CG group which will become PIXAR as an animation division and contributes it's own engineering to CG. I would be interestd to know how much of this was actually pioneered at Lucas Film vs. brought in by University-Educated Computer Scientists such as Ed Catmull.

4. 1984 John Lasseter joins Lucas Films CG group and Wally B. is his first CG Short which appears at SIGGRAPH.

5. NewTek begins in 1985 thanks to Tim Jenison!

So my next question is this,

Are NewTek and PIXAR completely separate "parallel evolutions" or did they ever collaborate, meet and share info. If so, do they still?

Jason

Lightwolf
10-16-2011, 09:38 AM
Are NewTek and PIXAR completely separate "parallel evolutions" or did they ever collaborate, meet and share info. If so, do they still?

In that sense it's parallel - even though a lot of the foundations came and still come from university research.

And a lot of the basic techniques go way back (i.e. the concept of raytracing is from the 60s).

The history of LW also starts before NT being involved with it: Videoscape 3D (http://home.comcast.net/~erniew/cghist/videoscape.html).

Cheers,
Mike

nickdigital
10-16-2011, 11:06 AM
Are NewTek and PIXAR completely separate "parallel evolutions" or did they ever collaborate, meet and share info. If so, do they still?


NewTek reaches out to users in studios to ask them for feedback on their software. There's collaboration like that.

nickdigital
10-16-2011, 11:27 AM
I disagree Nick, the opensource end of the community and the papers from SIGGRAPH seem to me to be the best and most prodigious way of getting idea and concepts into industry. There have been papers at SIGGRAPH that have come out in 2-3 years as active products in Lightwave, After Effects, Nuke and countless others.


I think my statement of Siggraph not being the source of everything CG was misleading. The original poster made it sound like Siggraph was a single corporate/research entity that was responsible for all code CG related. Siggraph is to 3d nerds what Comi-con is to comic book nerds. 3D and comics were around before their respective events.

But you're right. The tech and papers that are showcased at Siggraph are amazing.

jrjohannes
10-16-2011, 12:00 PM
Do you think that the CG Industry would benefit or be hurt by a Consortium like the W3C is to the web?

Lightwolf
10-16-2011, 12:02 PM
Do you think that the CG Industry would benefit or be hurt by a Consortium like the W3C is to the web?
http://www.khronos.org/ :D

Cheers,
Mike

Andy Meyer
10-17-2011, 12:20 PM
Do you think that the CG Industry would benefit or be hurt by a Consortium like the W3C is to the web?

W3C stands for compatibility, but also for limitations.
a webbrowser is a worldwide consumer app to display almost any content used in so many electronic devices.
3D apps are pro tools and can not be compared with webbrowsers imho.

i'm not sure if such a consortium would be good or bad. imho it could kill small players.

a 3D app Consortium ... 3DC ... could/would be rouled by AD and other big players. they could/would start a quality label, call it "3DC certified". i already can hear my customers asking me "do you work with 3DC certified apps?"... :-(

LW_Will
10-17-2011, 05:03 PM
If you have standards people can program to them. If you make things into standards, (like they can't be used crush the little people. Having large companies like Google in the mix doesn't hurt either.

Open standards (ie. OpenGL, OpenWeb, etc.) mean that if you use those calls, you won't be sued because its a "standard". That saves the "little guy."


3D and comics were around before their respective events.

Yeah, Nick, 3d exists without SIGGRAPH. The only thing that SIGGRAPH applies to the industry is a "peer reviewed journal", like the American Medical Academy (AMA) or the "Journal of Left-handed Can Openers"... or whatever...

Comics doesn't have a Journal... and the Comics Journal doesn't count. (The Magazine for people who don't read comics anymore...)

If you go and look at the people actually at SIGGRAPH, the kids with their visualizations and the engineers with their papers... even 3D is a small subset of SIGGRAPH... computer visualization.

Our industry is a small, small subset of SIGGRAPH... small set of 3D people, makes huge money (spends money as well)...

jrjohannes
10-17-2011, 06:18 PM
I'm all for anything that might elevate LightWave. If it hinders the Production, Pricing, Promotion or Distribution of LightWave, forget it!

tischbein3
10-17-2011, 11:16 PM
a 3D app Consortium ... 3DC ... could/would be rouled by AD and other big players. they could/would start a quality label, call it "3DC certified". i already can hear my customers asking me "do you work with 3DC certified apps?"...

khronos / collada is a good example, where a certification process would have helped a lot.

Andy Meyer
10-18-2011, 05:33 AM
khronos / collada is a good example, where a certification process would have helped a lot.

well, that is true. some kind of certified exchange format would be helpful.
that would force the app builders to do it right or they would be out of the exchange party. agreed.