View Full Version : Pshelf water

head worm
10-13-2003, 02:11 PM
Hello Lightwave community!

This circular pond is just one of the animating fountain objects included in our new Pshelf water collection, which is absolutely FREE until 31st October.

Get your free copy at: www.the-worms-of-art.com


Head Worm

10-13-2003, 04:18 PM
Nice, how did you do the tile work and is the grass just a texture?

10-13-2003, 04:25 PM
*Double post

10-13-2003, 04:33 PM
Thank You

10-13-2003, 06:35 PM
Oh very cool, many thanks as well.

10-14-2003, 09:51 AM
Thanks for the freebie, but I gave up trying to download it. The system for downloading needs a rethink, it's way too painful as it stands. Try and think about it from a users perspective, ie someone who's not familiar with the system.

I had trouble finding the freebie link, I downloaded a number of pages in the Water Preset section before I worked it out. You need a link on that page which says "click here to download". IMO when you click on the Water Prest Menu item you expect to find the water Preset there, or a link to download it. You don't naturally think to go back to the menu and find it in another section.

The registration process worked fine. I recieved my password in the email. Copied the url and pasted it into my browser, next I get a popup window asking me for password and username. I personally think it's better if users can login through a web page. That way users can go back to their email and copy the password, rather than aborting and ending up at an "Authorisation Required Page".

But when you do get into the password protected section, the first thing you expect to see is the item that you've gone there to download. But more confusion and hunting through menu's trying to work it out.

I know you've mentioned that the download link doesn't work in Safari, but I found that it also doesn't work in Netscape 7.

So then I go through the login process again in IE. I click on the link and get a 20 Mg download. You really should tell people how big the file is (especially for folk on dialups). I had other things I wanted to do online so it was kind of a waste going there at that time. As it turned out I waited about 15mins while it was downloading, found that it was permenantly stuck at 287k and gave up.

Anyway hope this feedback helps, looks like a good set of products.

BTW why the time-out in 72 hours? I think you need to go with less contol and a more overtly obvious system. Sorry just trying to help.

10-14-2003, 10:58 AM
I had better luck downloading than riki, though I agree the process was confusing. I downloaded the PC version and it looks really nice but with an NVidia dual monitor card set to span horizontal the manager application sits squarely in the middle of the monitors and can't be moved making hard to use. It would be better if you set it to play in a window or at least gave that option. All the same thanks for the gift and I would consider buying other packages in the future.

10-14-2003, 12:44 PM
I'm having the same problems as Riki.

In 2003 there is no excuse for having such a slow server.

head worm
10-14-2003, 12:57 PM
Hello everyone,

Sorry some of you are having problems. It's a nice theory that we shouldn't be having server problems but as well as hundreds of people trying to download today there is a major problem with the internet between Ireland and USA - Our servers are in Ireland and the USA. I'm afraid we can't do much about this :o(

We do give quite clear instructions about how to obtain the products and downloads, but you do have to read them.

The point about a clue as to the download size is taken and we are ammending this now.

We are also working on a solution to the window position of the Pshelf Manager app. This will be available in the next month.

Thanks very much for your feedback, but could you please write an email to us directly with these suggestions, as forums aren't the first place we check for user feedback!


Head Worm

10-14-2003, 01:26 PM
That's not cool. You guys spit in their face and this company gives something of value for free to the Lightwave community.

i thought lightwave community were cool guys to hang around.

If a restaurant were to give out free hamburgers could you imagine the line up, i know you for sure you guys would complain about the slow service.

no excuse for a slow server. wow
can we all share your bandwidth and upload gigs of stuff on your server. time for a reality check you guys.


10-14-2003, 02:26 PM
Bad analogy, dude.

If a restaurant were to give out free hamburgers, and you sat there for an hour waiting for a hamburger that never came, my guess is that you wouldn't be too happy.

10-14-2003, 02:48 PM
okay dude

man for something free, i am mature enough to know it didn't cost me anything and i can surely appreciate the fact that someone went through some trouble to please me.

specially this lightwave community.

you were rude and ignorant. plain and simple. enough wasted my time on this subject on how to behave, you give us Americans a bad name. no wonder people around the globe don't like us anymore.

best regards,

10-14-2003, 03:00 PM
You are far ruder and far more arrogant than me. I made no personally disparaging comments about anyone.

The people making this offer are a commercial enterprise -- the intention behind the offer is to generate future business. As such, they should have made arrangements for a better server.

10-14-2003, 04:15 PM
thanks head worm!
c'mon TyVole, it's free...if you can't download that today try tomorrow...

10-14-2003, 04:27 PM
No problem.

10-15-2003, 02:35 AM
Many thanks again head worm, I've got them now.

Hi pblacklock. User feedback (good or bad) is a useful thing. Even from numb-nut users like myself, who just want to click and download, then read about it another day.

I'd like to think that my comments were constructive, not a slap in the face. If I go back again I'll know what I'm doing. But as first- impressions go I found it a bit frustrating.

10-15-2003, 06:50 AM
i understand you completely riki as i felt the same way about the dl process, still haven't had my copy yet as i am on dialup and the password resetted itself for some reason. :rolleyes:

guess a direct ftp link to the file would be the better solution for us dl people.

as far as numbnut i don't think you are, you are always helping others in here so i think it was due to frustration. i know you were tying to help the company out by pointing the flaws. nothing wrong with that. i know you didn't say anything wrong.

i just hate seeing short stupid snide remarks when someone offers you freebies, don't bite the hand that feeds you.

wish you were here so we could go for a beer,


10-15-2003, 07:20 AM
Thanks Paul aaahhhh you mentioned beer. Where where's the pub, I'm definately up for that :)

10-15-2003, 08:19 PM
Here is some feedback FWIW:

1) The installer didn't work. I have a dual-headed setup using nView and the left half of the screen showed the left half of the installer, but the right half was missing. It seems like the Macromedia installer couldn't figure out what to do. I had to return to "single screen" mode to install.

2) Tried to run the PShelf Manager -- same problem as in #1. Gave up on the PShelf manager.

3) Loaded LW and added an Ice Preset from PShelf to a ball. F9 render, looked at result. Added a "pool water" preset to the same ball. F9 render -- *poof* LW crash. Restarted LW and tried again -- same. Rebooted and tried same -- still crash.

4) Went to uninstall the Water Collection -- no uninstaller in Control panel. Manually removed the app and all its stuff I could find.

Thanks for the free stuff, though. But I'll have to pass on this one.

10-16-2003, 01:55 AM
All I ever get when I click on the download link they sent me is...

Nope... that's not it
Sorry the email address and password you entered don't appear to be correct (at least for this site :)

Click on the fogotten password at the bottom of the navigation to get your password emailed to you.

I never even get a chance to enter the ID/password they gave me.


head worm
10-16-2003, 02:35 AM
Thanks for the feedback guys, sorry a few of you are having problems.

However, I must just protest at someone claiming that our presets crash LW. Presets are presets, they're part of LW's built in functionality, so there's no compiled C code that could crash the machine other than LW itself. This is one of the main advantages of a simple system like this, no compatibility problems between users, as there are with shader plugins.

You may want to upgrade to the latest version of LW - 7.5C

As far as the dual monitor issue, we are currently addressing this, as stated previously. But if you're having some problems with the Pshelf manager app then we would appreciate a support email, in which case we could help you out! Apps don't work from time to time on certain systems and we need specific information so we can improve the product. Saying "didn't work, deleted it" is not very helpful to us.

There's no uninstaller because everything is contained within the Pshelf folder (except the .pst files). So if you really want to delete the whole thing, then just delete this folder. There are no hidden files installed across your computer.

This thread is turning into a bit of thinly veiled flame, when we're receiving bunches of thankyou emails from customers who are using the collection fine. I just feel that this is presenting an unbalanced view of what's going on and can't understand why people who would like something to work better don't write to us direct and make suggestions. It's no more effort and it's not as if we're going to come round your house, we welcome this kind of info.

Thanks for your patience

Head Worm

10-16-2003, 02:53 AM
Originally posted by head worm
...Thanks for your patience...

Patience is a virtue...and especially for people that talk faster then they think...

I hope this free stuff can generate extra sales. I have absolutely NO problems and it's quite useful, esp.for beginning users !!!

10-16-2003, 04:14 AM
Hi Head worm,

I had problems downloading as the login window would not come up. Apparently I had the cookie slider set to high in the privacy tab in IE and it must have blocked the login window. I lowered it and then the login window came up and I was able to download.

I think you guys deserve praise for offering free stuff. Shame on anyone who has issues with that.

You guys were supportive in your emails and I appreciate it.
Might make a note that some peoples privacy settings might be to high blocking the login window.

In this day of constant viruses you can't be laxed about security.


10-16-2003, 06:25 AM
were's the free burgers...:D

10-16-2003, 06:57 AM
Thanks JS33 for the security tab settings message, mine was set to high so it block the dl. thanks again

as for the free burgers it was here in Ottawa, Canada. beef producers were giving away large 1/2 lbs burgers for a big promotion, and yes some people complained about the lineup being too long. :rolleyes:

10-16-2003, 07:38 AM
Everything installed and seems to work nicely here. Presets render without any crashes, at least those I have tried.

The installer itself was actually quite a pleasant change from the usual grey and hideous UI that afflicts us Windows users.

Download was difficult - it took 6 attempts to get a non-truncated file and the download rate was slow-ish, but hardly coma inducing.

I also like the availability of the PDFs and example materials that explain the various concepts you are using. I haven't had a chance to look through them yet, but am sure that I will learn something new :)

Thanks again for making this available.

10-16-2003, 09:24 AM

I wrote the e-mail "smiling" the whole time. I am not AT ALL flaming anyone. I was giving feedback for you to use -- my feedback was free for your use or for you to disregard.

As far as crashing LW: I have 7.5C. Lightwave would give a message similar to "Something went wrong inside my head, I'm closing and you'll probably loose data." I tried restarting LW only and rebooting it. All that would happen is ALL my presets were gone. LW would create a folder structure of "(none)(none)" in my Presets directory and never load any presets even though they were there. I restored my .CFG files from the backup I have of them and it wouldn't work.

I then got out the LW disk and ran the "Repair" option -- still same results as above. I completely removed LW and reinstalled everything. LW was fine, but I did not try to mess with the Water collection again (call it fear).

Now, I did not or do not intend to flame anyone -- thinly disguised or openly. I appreciate the PShelf offer. I may try it again AFTER setting a system restore point. All I know is that one preset worked fine (ice), one preset didn't work at all (swimming pool), and the third one caused a crash every time it was used. I could go back to "ice" after the "swimming pool" error and "ice" would work fine. After the "water" one crashed LW in a "hard" way, no presets would ever be available for me to load anymore.

Granted there is no code you are writing for these things, but if one always crashed the machine and one never did, what would you do? You would stop using the one that crashed the machine. It's not your fault, I'm sure. I just needed the one that crashed the machine for something I was going to try. The others were great but I didn't need those. I removed the stuff to free up space.

I'm sorry that it seems you are being "pounced" on for being kind and giving. Like I said, I may give things another go. Hopefully nothing will go wrong.

As far as personal opinions:
I do not like the installer. That's *my* opinion. The reason I do not like it is because I do not like Flash-based stuff.

I didn't get to use the PShelf Manager, but it is also Flash-based (I think) so it suffers from the statement above.

I do not like being forced to run an app in full screen only. The PShelf manager and Installer didn't seem to be sizeable windows. Granted, I couldn't see the right half of the screen, so maybe the buttons were over there.

I like that things like moving presets/stuff around can be managed with a tool.

I like the fact that there is the ability to get previews with the tool.

Thanks for the free stuff!

10-16-2003, 10:12 AM
First off guys: Please don't fight over this. I downloaded the presets and they seem to work fine.

I think the problem with LW crashing is that you do not have ratraced transparency on. If the preset uses a gradient with surface thickness as input, then if you try to render without raytraced transparency turned on, LW will crash. This is a known bug and hopefully will be fixed in LW8.

Hope this helps.:)

P.S. Thanks Worms of Art for a great set of presets for free. You are very kind to do this.

10-16-2003, 10:20 AM
First, I'm not affiliated with The Worms of Art and I hope they don't mind me posting this, use at your own risk.

For those with dual monitors having problems on Windows PCs the problem can be fixed by adding a text file to the folder that contains the Pshelf Manager app.

Create a text file named "Pshelf Manager.ini" with the folowing lines of text-


Place this file in the Pshelf folder at the same level as the Pshelf manager .exe.

This makes the manager play in a window that can be moved to the second monitor. The viewer will remain on the primary monitor and can't be moved.

10-16-2003, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by pblacklock
Thanks JS33 for the security tab settings message, mine was set to high so it block the dl. thanks again

as for the free burgers it was here in Ottawa, Canada. beef producers were giving away large 1/2 lbs burgers for a big promotion, and yes some people complained about the lineup being too long. :rolleyes:

Cool!. Good to know I wasn't the only one. I think awhile back when we started having all these big virus attacks I must of freaked and cranked all my security settings too high. :D


10-16-2003, 03:19 PM
I will be trying the presets again when I get home in a few hours. I'll also try the "full screen fix" thing and let everyone know what happens.

Thanks for everyone's help! Again, Worm, I AM appreciative of your efforts!

10-16-2003, 03:53 PM
Also for those that are having problems with the installer on dual monitor setups, where you can't see half of the installer the same .ini file trick should work but name it "Water_Installer.ini" and place it in the folder with Water_Installer.exe.

And thanks again to the Worms of Art for releasing these excelent presets for free!

10-16-2003, 05:59 PM
Results of retrying:

I installed in single-screen mode. I didn't try the INI file thing for the installation.

I made the "Pshelf Manager.ini" file and put the settings in as directed. The PShelf manager did let me move it, and the preview window did stay on the primary monitor. I can live with that setup though, because the PShelf manager is now usable.

Now, I turned on the Raytrace ... option mentioned above and I got no crash. This is probably what caused the problem. Also, one of the textures I was playing with required that it be "unpacked", but I didn't know that until now because I can finally see the PShelf manager in its entireity.

Thanks again for all the help!

head worm
10-17-2003, 02:40 AM
Thanks for more feedback guys,

It has been much more constructive in the past two days.

The workaround for the installer and manager screens should work without any unforeseen trouble. However, we are already working on an update to the manager and installer that will allow you to reposition the interface in a more satisfactory way.

This should be finished within the next two weeks and we'll make it publicly available ASAP. We really appreciate your interest in this collection and time spent thinking about ways to improve it.


Head Worm

head worm
10-20-2003, 07:24 AM
Hi guys,

We're doing some testing on the Pshelf manager as regards the dual monitor issue. We only run ATI cards on our Macs and PCs here and can't recreate the problems that some have experienced.

We're firstly curious to know if anyone has problems with the Pshelf Manager appearing between two monitors on an ATI card and secondly, wondering if either of the people who have raised this issue here through nVidia cards, would be interested in testing a bug fix.


Head Worm

10-20-2003, 08:10 AM
Sure, I'd be glad to help you test the fix. The NVidia cards can be set up to view two monitors as one large monitor which allows lightwave to function more efficiently as it doesn't seem to be written to handle normal dual monitor setups properly. This allows lightwave to use both monitors with ogl and remember window positioning which doesn't seem to work with normal dual monitor setups on a PC. They can also then be setup to constrain window positioning to a single monitor so windows don't maximize across both monitors, which is what causes the problem with only half of the fullscreen projector windows to be visible. (Director doesn't seem to handle the NVidia setup either...)

10-20-2003, 07:32 PM
Though I may be slower than some, I will also test on my nVidia/dual monitoe setup if you need me to. Just use the e-mail link to contact me if you need me.

10-28-2003, 04:59 AM
I keep getting this error message.

head worm
10-31-2003, 02:25 AM

The most common cause of this is not running Jaguar. The Manager will not run under an OS lower the OS10.2, it states this clearly on our website.

If this isn't the cause, then we need some more information, which you should send to our support email address:

[email protected]

Head Worm

10-31-2003, 11:44 AM
i get the same error on win 2000

11-01-2003, 07:23 AM
I have the same problem as Riki,
With system 10.2.8 and Lightwave 7.5c

head worm
11-02-2003, 03:34 AM
Hi Guys,

Firstly, do have the manager working fine here under 10.2.8. We've only used the standard installer, so the system shouldn't be your problem.

Can I just confirm that you all ran the 'water_installer' and it ran fine, because the basic code is very similar in both the installer and the manager, so if one works, the other should in principle.

The second thing we need to know is that you haven't moved the Pshelf Manager away from the main [Pshelf] installation folder. This will cause the error you report. If you want to move the manager, move the whole installation folder.


Head Worm

11-02-2003, 12:50 PM

Can U feel the love in this room?

Thanx head worm for the freebies. No problemo downloading.

Not looked at water stuff yet as I am still learning modelling, but shall make sure that I give them a go.

By the way, I would like to say, I live in the UK and I don't have a problem with Amercans. How could I have a problem with a whole country.

We are all in this LW thing together. Lets try and get along.

Best Wishes


11-02-2003, 01:05 PM
Oops , My mistake i think.
Did the installation again om my new machine and no problems anymore.

now thinking on a new project with lot of water. :D


11-02-2003, 08:16 PM
riki, i think i know your problem...

you own a mac!!!