PDA

View Full Version : Critical View



merovingio
09-26-2011, 08:39 AM
Here's an idea of a new visualization style for Modeler.

Sometimes complex models tends to have some problems that it is hard to notice. Some problems comes from modelling, some from booleans operations and so on.

This style of view (that should be available in the drop down menu) allows an easy visualization realtime of the most common problems like:

-Overlapping points, like two ore more points sharing the same coordinates (the little red square)
-Overlapping polygons, like identical polygons sharing the same coordinates (the red striped polys)
-2 vertices polygons (the white glowing line)
-The flatness percentage, identified by a gradient, from gray to red

Those are just some example of the problems this kind of visualization could help to identify. And have it all in a single view could help to keep a clean mesh.

Let me know what you think about it.

biliousfrog
09-26-2011, 08:43 AM
Those issues can occassionally be a problem but most often you can get around them easily by merging points (m), merging polys (Shift + i) or using the statistics window (w).

merovingio
09-26-2011, 08:51 AM
Those issues can occassionally be a problem but most often you can get around them easily by merging points (m), merging polys (Shift + i) or using the statistics window (w).

Sometimes in a mesh you don't wish to "merge" because some points is just right that shares coordinates, because you want it right there (eg. bricks in a wall for example).
What if you suspect that in the same mesh you have some points around that are just there for a boolean operation?

And.. statistic windows? Do you use it even for explore the weights of a mesh or you prefer to have a dedicated view?

Svenart
09-26-2011, 08:56 AM
nice idea, this really could be helpful I think.

Sensei
09-26-2011, 09:06 AM
I had plan for such plugin in 2007, but then new OpenGL appeared and screwed up everything..
and no special needed dedicated functions were added to LWSDK that I demanded for this kind of job..
requested in October 2007
https://fogbugz.newtek.com/default.asp?9189_OKWPUQSN
https://fogbugz.newtek.com/default.asp?9188_SZWAHFDE

Why in polygon handler? Because it's the only one plugin class which is working all the time in Modeler. And it can analyze geometry while other tools are modifying or building it, so there could be instant effect telling "there is bug here and there, so fix it"..

biliousfrog
09-26-2011, 11:42 AM
Sometimes in a mesh you don't wish to "merge" because some points is just right that shares coordinates, because you want it right there (eg. bricks in a wall for example).
What if you suspect that in the same mesh you have some points around that are just there for a boolean operation?

And.. statistic windows? Do you use it even for explore the weights of a mesh or you prefer to have a dedicated view?

Sure, I did say that they can be a problem. The suggestions I made were only to offer a solution which I find works most of the time for me.

akademus
09-26-2011, 12:11 PM
Yes this is a great help. Also overlapping UV's should be marked somehow...

probiner
09-26-2011, 05:57 PM
This has been requested. Never thought of the Flatness gradient per polygon, nice! Always saw it as looking to the neighbours.
Like akademus said, UV Overlapping!!

Statistics or the Janitor Plugin (http://chrisepeterson.com/v2/lscripts), can already go fast and easy around many issues but a visual debug feels more friendly and one can have multiple parameters descriminated and see what is changing. Sometimes you want an automated fix, sometimes you want an informed one.
Anyway, many of the propositions here would be good additions to the Statistics Panel.

1: Mesh Debug View Basicly to technically debug the mesh, make it manifold, make it clean:
(To add to the already mentioned in this thread)

A) Edges belonging, to only one polygon, and edges belonging to more than 2 polygons. (Just like Statistics 1 and >2)
B) Polygons with flipped Normal relativly to their neighbours. (Hard to spot with double sided or internal meshes)
C) Vertices that are the only thing one or more polygons share. Or vertices where outer edges do not make a loop.
D) Polygons with Area = 0.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/animatics/Lightwave/NonManifolds.png



2:Modeling Debug View To evaluate the shape itself, topology, polyflow, UVmap etc.

A) Topology color code according to the valence. For Polygons and for Inner Vertices.
Good to spot Topology Elements, Subidivion Artifacts, Polyflow cleanup.
3 and 5 are very useful. 6 and >6 might be a stretch but Statistics's >4 is useless sometimes. In triangulated meshes, 6 edge vertices are common.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/animatics/Lightwave/TopologyColorCode.png


B) Edge color code like Blender ( So usefull in Statistics too):
- For UV Seams.
- Catmull-Clark Weighted Edges.
- Hard Edges smooth shading (where in connected geometry the smoothing breaks. More useful if we had smoothing groups :( )

C) Shaders, to make a better analysis of the shaping.
- Ambient Occlusion, lightning preview.
- Curvatures like DP_Curvatures to evaluate the flatness, the concavity and convexity of the mesh. It will reveal stretches, pinches, and tensions.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/animatics/Lightwave/3d-coatOcc.png

Cheers

jasonwestmas
09-26-2011, 06:59 PM
Oh yeah color coding/marking is ALWAYS helpful to spot things earlier on.

merovingio
09-29-2011, 04:41 AM
Thank you for the replies.

Suggestions from Probiner were very useful too. So i think this "critical view" should be something very customizable, capable of show/hide different kind of models problem.

Better to call it "Analytical View" instead of "Critical View".

probiner
09-29-2011, 06:14 AM
Yea "analytical" sounds better than "critical" or "debug".
Toggable options are the way to go indeed, having all options ON is a pain to the eyes. So each analysis to each task =)

Another two to add just to finish: XSI colored weights (http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/media/folder_7/file_315520.jpg) and Modo Reflection Viewport (http://lh5.ggpht.com/_hu0o-xw1QWM/TSkLHg0ZOtI/AAAAAAAAHSE/5xpLN1rSz90/501reflection_improvement_car_890.jpg) ^^

Narrower Hue shift, less rainbowtech
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/animatics/Lightwave/DebugViewMode2B.png

Anyway... lets never stop dreaming =P Cheers

EDIT: But first Newtek... something simply as to be able to see vertices in "Textured Wire" (like in "Color Wireframe") would be very good. It's a bit ridiculous to have to change the view to see vertices.
OOhh oohh.. and wireframe transparency. ty

Chris S. (Fez)
09-29-2011, 06:28 AM
I love this.

Amurrell
09-29-2011, 09:39 AM
This would be a great idea. The topology color code hurts my eyes :) but with work this could be cool. The critical view idea originally posted would save a lot of headaches in certain cases, where imports have duplicated geometries, or when I get tired and sloppy.

probiner
09-29-2011, 10:41 AM
The topology color code hurts my eyes :) but with work this could be cool.

True, thats why I tryed to ease it up with a second version, but that is a big sample. In a normal model it wouldn't get be so bad.
(wireframe with 30% transparency)

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/animatics/Lightwave/Debug_Sample-head-C-D.png

Cheers

probiner
10-08-2013, 02:39 PM
Woops, wrong thread.

bobakabob
10-08-2013, 03:23 PM
Interesting though :)

spherical
10-08-2013, 04:42 PM
Here's an idea of a new visualization style for Modeler.

Sometimes complex models tends to have some problems that it is hard to notice. Some problems comes from modelling, some from booleans operations and so on.

-Overlapping points, like two ore more points sharing the same coordinates (the little red square)
-Overlapping polygons, like identical polygons sharing the same coordinates (the red striped polys)
-2 vertices polygons (the white glowing line)
-The flatness percentage, identified by a gradient, from gray to red

Keep It Simple Slicer (KISSlicer) that I use for producing prototypes on our 3D Touch printer has this. The models shown are ones that users uploaded when reporting a "bug" in the application. Most often, it's a Borked model that confuses the slicer. Then, they complain that the slicer should be "more forgiving because [insert other slicer here] slices (their crappy modeling) just fine". Those of us who appreciate tight modeling also appreciate having the errors display. Do it right.

117537

It requires re-opening the model in Modeler and using the display to locate the problem areas, then export and re-load until the errors are all fixed. There are mesh repair tools, yes, but most often they introduce other errors while fixing the ones already present; if they fix them. Waste of time. Some errors require a repair utility that has a pulse, as only that type can make intelligent decisions on what is and what is not correct and how to repair it.

Surrealist.
10-09-2013, 03:41 AM
Cool ideas! :)