PDA

View Full Version : Watch TERRA NOVA



Pages : [1] 2

Celshader
09-22-2011, 10:35 PM
Lots of LightWave love in this show:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haI86VeEgR4

:beerchug:

JeffrySG
09-22-2011, 10:37 PM
Thanks for the reminder! I'll have to set up the DVR! And congrats on the show!

Snosrap
09-22-2011, 11:02 PM
Lots of LightWave love in this show:
:beerchug:

Like what?

Shabazzy
09-22-2011, 11:04 PM
Terra Nova's coming to the UK soon and judging by the trailers, my first thought was, "Oh no. The BBC have sold Outcasts to the States. This is going to be a piece of ****."

But now I'm thinking, Spielberg! LightWave! How wrong am I gonna be? I can't wait to see it!

Celshader
09-22-2011, 11:10 PM
Like what?

I'll tell you specifics after it airs, but nearly all of the VFX elements were rendered out of LightWave. The non-dinosaur, non-Terragen VFX were created in LightWave, too.

jasonwestmas
09-23-2011, 12:19 AM
Will DO! :)

erikals
09-23-2011, 04:38 AM
Nice.... http://erikalstad.com/backup/anims.php_files/smile.gif wonder if there were any HDinstance used...

LW_Will
09-23-2011, 02:29 PM
I'll be there, Ms. Celshader!

;-)

lardbros
09-23-2011, 03:31 PM
Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me too! Looking forward to seeing this when it hits the UK shores!

So, the dino's were rendered in LW too? Guessing the animation was Maya :)

Congrats on the great work on such a big show! Lightwaving it up as well... I couldn't ask for more! :D

Whelkn
09-23-2011, 04:33 PM
great work Jen. Also you can check out a Dolphin Tale. It opens this weekend. We used LW to replace the bad animatronic dolphin with a better looking one for about 80 or so shots in the movie.

http://dolphintalemovie.warnerbros.com/index.html


if you watch the trailer you can see some of the before stuff as they made the trailer before they hired us to fix the on set problems :-)

lardbros
09-23-2011, 04:48 PM
Again, some brilliant LW work coming out of California... and a lot of it as well!! :D Makes me happy!

probiner
09-23-2011, 05:19 PM
I can't avoid of thinking "Avatar!" with that actor, the jungle and the creatures there.

We won't have it soon here, I guess. Good luck with the reviews.

realgray
09-23-2011, 07:02 PM
I'll tell you specifics after it airs, but nearly all of the VFX elements were rendered out of LightWave. The non-dinosaur, non-Terragen VFX were created in LightWave, too.

Thanks Celshader, I would love to hear about this.

gordonrobb
09-23-2011, 11:36 PM
Starts at the beginning of October hear. Hoping it will be good.

SBowie
09-24-2011, 05:59 AM
My PVR is already programmed to snag it. :)

aurora
09-24-2011, 09:31 AM
This is, now, the only new show this season I have been looking forward to and plan to watch. The only one since it looks like Blood and Chrome is in danger of going webseries anyways.

I was sold on this when I heard 'dinosaurs' then I saw the first clips a few months ago and the quality of the work makes it impossible to resist. All I can say is congrats on an incredible show, even if the stories turn up lame (Hello 'Lost' writers how could that happen?) the visuals in the show are breath taking!

rcallicotte
09-26-2011, 03:48 PM
Can't wait to see this.

thomascheng
09-26-2011, 03:50 PM
Can't wait.

IgnusFast
09-27-2011, 07:08 AM
It was interesting - great CG, but the compositing was pretty bad. Mostly lighting/matching issues. Decent show - I'll keep watching until they inevitably cancel it. :) Nothing fringe like that survives long...

rcallicotte
09-27-2011, 07:58 AM
I shared this news with people on Planetside and was told Terragen was used for the landscapes. Check out these articles, if you're interested-

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/geek-life/profiles/two-new-tv-shows-feature-technology

http://jobs.fastcompany.com/1780950/terra-nova-spielberg-brannon-fox-television

"His team at digital effects house Pixomondo also used cost-effective software--animating in Maya, rendering in LightWave 3D, compositing in After Effects and Nuke, and creating landscapes in Terragen 2."

I sure would like to know more! COOL.

Red_Oddity
09-27-2011, 10:39 AM
Too bad it's on Fox, if it turns out to be good, it is bound to be axed within the first couple of episodes.

Here's hoping it's better though than the last horrendous sci-fi turd Spielberg's name was plastered on.

robertoortiz
09-27-2011, 10:42 AM
The deal that Fox did with Spielberg is a minimum order of 13 episodes.

That right there is enough for a decent story arc.

Celshader
09-27-2011, 10:49 AM
I shared this news with people on Planetside and was told Terragen was used for the landscapes. Check out these articles, if you're interested-

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/geek-life/profiles/two-new-tv-shows-feature-technology

http://jobs.fastcompany.com/1780950/terra-nova-spielberg-brannon-fox-television

"His team at digital effects house Pixomondo also used cost-effective software--animating in Maya, rendering in LightWave 3D, compositing in After Effects and Nuke, and creating landscapes in Terragen 2."

I sure would like to know more! COOL.

Yes, Terragen was used for some of the landscape shots and matte paintings. LightWave was used for other landscape shots and matte paintings. If the landscapes have waterfalls far-off in the distance, they were most likely Terragen renders with LightWave waterfalls layered on top. If the landscapes have no distant waterfalls, they were probably landscapes built in LightWave.

The LightWave waterfalls used a 2000-frame RealFlow calculation as their basis. A custom Python script converted the *.bin sequence into a partigon *.lwo sequence with an embedded "Speed" endomorph. A bone chain was laid along the length of the partigon waterfall to deform it into whatever shape best fit the Terragen landscapes.

TalleyJC
09-27-2011, 11:21 AM
I agree that the comp looked bad in places.... but there were some other scenes that really needed a whole bunch more motion blur passes almost to the point of looking like it was at the wrong frame rate.

Dexter2999
09-27-2011, 11:25 AM
Easy to play critic. Much harder to turn out product on a schedule and budget.

ncr100
09-27-2011, 11:26 AM
Yes, Terragen was used for some of the landscape shots and matte paintings. LightWave was used for other landscape shots and matte paintings. If the landscapes have waterfalls far-off in the distance, they were most likely Terragen renders with LightWave waterfalls layered on top. If the landscapes have no distant waterfalls, they were probably landscapes built in LightWave.

The LightWave waterfalls used a 2000-frame RealFlow calculation as their basis. A custom Python script converted the *.bin sequence into a partigon *.lwo sequence with an embedded "Speed" endomorph. A bone chain was laid along the length of the partigon waterfall to deform it into whatever shape best fit the Terragen landscapes.

My my! This is television? Congratulations - it looks amazing.

EDIT: DINOSAURS!

robertoortiz
09-27-2011, 11:46 AM
Easy to play critic. Much harder to turn out product on a schedule and budget.

I was thinking exactly that.

nickdigital
09-27-2011, 12:32 PM
Congrats to everyone who worked on Terra Nova. It looks great.

TalleyJC
09-27-2011, 01:38 PM
I was thinking exactly that.

Relax guys... everybody here is excited that this is lightwave - that is great. So was Galactica, (which also was done on a schedule and budget) It was done with older machines, and older versions of lightwave.

When we get to this point of newer machines and software and probably a larger budget than sci-fi had we shouldn't see choppy motion blur especially on the pilot episode. Overall I think it was done well, especially modelling textures and animation. Specifically giving dinosaurs bird-like movement. I thought that was well thought out. Scifi shows like this as others have pointed out, may not have long to live even under the best of circumstances, so extra attention needs to be paid to the smallest detail.

rcallicotte
09-27-2011, 02:47 PM
Will look again. Only watched the first half last night.

:thumbsup: I loved the work. Nice going to all who did it!



Yes, Terragen was used for some of the landscape shots and matte paintings. LightWave was used for other landscape shots and matte paintings. If the landscapes have waterfalls far-off in the distance, they were most likely Terragen renders with LightWave waterfalls layered on top. If the landscapes have no distant waterfalls, they were probably landscapes built in LightWave.

The LightWave waterfalls used a 2000-frame RealFlow calculation as their basis. A custom Python script converted the *.bin sequence into a partigon *.lwo sequence with an embedded "Speed" endomorph. A bone chain was laid along the length of the partigon waterfall to deform it into whatever shape best fit the Terragen landscapes.

linksys
09-27-2011, 04:55 PM
The show was nice, looking forward for the next episodes. Oh and yeah a mix of Avatar and Jurassic Park came to my mind. On the CGI part, yes from time to time i had the feeling that the dinosaurs stood out to much. Canīt tell if it was the modelling, animation or post maybe it was a bit of everything but they sometimes didnīt fit in there. Anyway this is only a TV show so i would say thats okayish. I have seen movies with much bader CGI and after Avatar, Pirates of the caribbean, King Kong, Jurassic Park... to name a view everything less i not good enough if you know what i mean.

achrystie
09-27-2011, 06:02 PM
Well I thought it was pretty good overall.
The effects were good quality, and the dinosaurs were well done.

I think the major issue I had with the look "as a whole" was a combination of being too bright, and the brightness changing drastically from "cut to cut".
I remember one specific scene where the family goes outside and stands in front of a building, and in the first part of the shot the lighting is really blown out on a guard in the image, then there's a cut to another quick view (I forget what), but the cut back to the same image/view is "drastically" less lit/overcast like the day had changed by hours in that one cut. There were quite a few of these issues, but that one was quite memorable. The night scenes seemed like they were lit strangely as well, sort of too bright in the wrong places, and too dark in others.

Also, it seemed as though everything was the same focus (no depth) so it was hard to distinguish between the foreground and the background in most shots (I see this as a lens choice issue), and I think that makes it difficult to create a believable composite, as good as the effects themselves were. I wouldn't say that's uncommon for television productions though, but nowadays, the HD broadcast has made something that looked odd before, look even more out of place, because the whole thing is evenly focused AND ultra crisp/detailed.

The combination of the too bright/rapidly changing lighting, the lack of depth in shots, and the motion blur problems someone mentioned took away from the mood quite a bit, but that didn't mean I thought it was bad.

Additionally, it seemed as though the story is a bit too contrived(rebellious teen, check, teen girl with crush, check, father making the hard sacrifices but a bit of a rebel himself, check, innocent child scenes, check, leader who you aren't sure you can trust with a warring faction we don't know much about yet, check, etc.) I also wasn't that excited to have where those equations/letters on the rocks came from/what they mean, explained to me in the first episode. I think it would have been better to keep the mystery going a while. Hopefully there's more of a spin to it that will make it interesting in future episodes.

Pryzm
09-29-2011, 04:11 PM
In case anyone missed it, it's on Hulu.

hulu.com/terra-nova

erikals
09-29-2011, 04:15 PM
our video library can only be watched from within the United States agh...!

Mitja
09-30-2011, 02:48 PM
just watched the pilot. I must be honest: the story is kinda boring, reminds me of Lost. Quite disappointed, but I'll give it a second chance. (tho I think I'll watch the entire show till the end)

Mitja
09-30-2011, 02:53 PM
And a "slasher" is supposed to be an actual dinosaur?! What kind of dinosaur had a blade on it's tail?!

Cryonic
09-30-2011, 03:02 PM
And a "slasher" is supposed to be an actual dinosaur?! What kind of dinosaur had a blade on it's tail?!

not far fetched considering the Stegasaurus had spikes on its tail.

Celshader
09-30-2011, 03:02 PM
And a "slasher" is supposed to be an actual dinosaur?! What kind of dinosaur had a blade on it's tail?!

The show creators invented Slashers (http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/09/26/7973577-terra-nova-gives-dino-fans-something-new-to-chew-on) for the series.

jasonwestmas
09-30-2011, 03:59 PM
nm

calilifestyle
09-30-2011, 04:06 PM
Not sure if it's Noted somewhere here. But it's not suppose to be their/our earth. Theirs a brief 4min. part where the girls explains why it's not the past. So i guess it's in their court on how closely it reflect what we call earth.

cresshead
09-30-2011, 04:37 PM
Just seen it, was okay and i'm looking forward to more ep's soon.
Back story/set up was a little rushed but you have to 'get there' quickly these days so not to have your show dropped.

cg was okay...the camera fly in on the future city looked a bit 'small' looked more like a model fly over...did they use a miniature model for that or cg?

Celshader
09-30-2011, 04:58 PM
Just seen it, was okay and i'm looking forward to more ep's soon.
Back story/set up was a little rushed but you have to 'get there' quickly these days so not to have your show dropped.

cg was okay...the camera fly in on the future city looked a bit 'small' looked more like a model fly over...did they use a miniature model for that or cg?

The city was created with LightWave.

cresshead
09-30-2011, 05:01 PM
The city was created with LightWave.

thanks for the insight on the CG city scenes.

As long as the story remains interesting and character development grows i think the show will do well...I can also see a spin off show if this takes off with expanding the backstory into it's own show.

xxiii
09-30-2011, 05:04 PM
The deal that Fox did with Spielberg is a minimum order of 13 episodes.

That right there is enough for a decent story arc.

Its SciFi, on Fox. Not that the other networks have very good track records in regard to this either.

thomascheng
09-30-2011, 05:19 PM
It sounds very much like a parallel Universe. Its not the same timeline and whatever they do there doesn't seem to effect the future. I would think it is a parallel world the evolved at a slower pace. 85 million years slower. However, the hint at the end might say otherwise.

BTW, I enjoyed the show. It seems like a good family show with a little something for everyone.

xxiii
09-30-2011, 06:42 PM
*minor spoiler*





At the end They also established that the moon and the stars are 85 million years closer to the earth. So either they traveled back into the past or this parallel universe is offset 85 million years (and which one it actually is might be irrelevant/indistinguishable).

A bit of dialog also suggests they are able to communicate with 2149 even though its otherwise apparently a one-way trip.

thomascheng
09-30-2011, 07:24 PM
Sounds like Ancient tech and Solar Flares caused the time rift :)

RebelHill
10-03-2011, 10:43 AM
Finally got to see this.

FX were actually pretty damn good for the most part (though there was the odd shot here n there that looked somewhat ropey... but aint there always gonna be).

Too bad these pretty good fx were lodged slap bang in such a piece of crap show though... story, premise, etc... truly awful. May as well have just comp'd the dinos into lost season 3, (with a few stargate cut ins).

nikfaulkner
10-03-2011, 11:18 AM
i'm with rebel hill on this one :/ sad really as i was quite looking forward to it.

the effects etc were ok at best and functional at worst. looked like they hadn't colour corrected or graded anything which made the live action stuff look very cheap\outdated and really showed how basic the sets were.

the script\acting\directing was totaly sub-par. made me wonder if the last 15 years of quality american tv drama hadn't happened and all they had to compete with was xena warrior princess (which is what it reminded me of).

wonder how long the whole lost in space\land of the giants senario will take to fall into "monster of the week" storylines

its interesting, check out how many producers were involved in the pilot. you get enough input from enough people and you are going to end up with an average. pretty much sums it up really.

end of a disappointed rant *sigh*

SBowie
10-03-2011, 11:23 AM
I still haven't had time to watch the premiere, but sometimes things start out needing a little massaging but develop as the series continues. I do hope that's the case. Some of my favorite shows were a bit thin at the beginning.

xxiii
10-03-2011, 12:51 PM
Personally I think its a bit early to be writing it off. TV shows are like books (the good ones anyway) and we've only seen the prolog/ch 1 so far.

I'm reminded of Farscape in this regard, which for several episodes was a very shallow seeming "Crais' plan to capture Crichton" of the week (along with lots of complaints from people who couldn't handle the puppets), then it got good.

I think it will take several episodes to work out the kinks, have the actors get comfortable in their roles, and see if anything deeper is going on, or not. (and to see how they do on a weekly budget/timeline as opposed to the pilot budget/timeline).

Please no more panicy people doing stupid things though. (I can stay inside this metal cage, or I can run around outside with only my clothing to protect me).

This is the paradox of television though. If you construct it like a novel (A form TV is ideal for) you're going to lose a lot of people at the beginning, as well as people with no memory/attention-span who need everything started/resolved in the same episode with the reset button pushed at the end.

If you front-load it (which I think Terra Nova might have done), or do the isolated episodes thing you compromize your larger story telling ability. (See mid-3rd season BSG to see what happens when you cave in to the no attention span crowd).

cresshead
10-03-2011, 01:13 PM
these guys summed up the pilot pretty well i think,

http://revision3.com/trs/terranova

lardbros
10-03-2011, 02:16 PM
Just watched it, and it wasn't horrendous really... a definite, 'open head, lift brain out, place on table next to sofa' kind of series, but to be honest, I actually quite enjoyed it. (was quite a stargate fan, so anything remotely similar is good in my eyes :D )

Felt there was enough suspense to keep me watching, although to give away all the stuff about the stone painting things near the waterfalls was an odd move! Felt most of the effects work was alright too, prefer the man-made and jungle/greenery shots as opposed to the creature/human stuff, but mainly compositing to blame. A few of the shots made things look tiiiiny due to over-doing DOF and blurring, but then some things have to be covered up etc especially in short time-frames!

Overall, it's nice to see such a huge amount of LW effects in a show, and I reckon it will get better.

Red_Oddity
10-03-2011, 02:19 PM
Had a chance to see it too.

Not sure i should say anything as i can't really say anything really positive about it besides that the sets and the digi mattes looked nice.

But here goes...

For a series that cost between 10 and 20 million USD just for the pilot i'm kind of shocked about the quality of the show.

The writing is lazy, acting is poor, character couldn't be more generic cardboard cutout and unlikable (though Stephen Lang is always cool), plot is 'meh' at best (if you ignore the plot holes, paradoxes, and the K-T boundary that is.)

Now for the CG, i know it's really easy to armchair direct, but dear god, when an ENTIRE series like Walking with Dinosaurs cost 10 million USD and looked better than most of this show (and not to mention Walking is a 13 year old show), you wonder what the heck happened with this production and what amount of the budget went to post production.

Rendering, modeling and shading was okay (effective at best), but the compositing was absolutely below par, it ruined EVERY money shot the show had to offer.
In one viewing i spotted multiple really bad rotos, NO black levels that matched in most CG/live action shots (some of the slasher tail night shots on the other hand actually looked really well done), bad tracking in the car chase shots, lightwraps that where SO horribly overdone where subtlety might have saved those sh!tty lit indoor green screen plates, and no lightwraps on shots that absolutely needed it.


I feel really really bad for bad mouthing the show knowing full well there's people on this forum that worked their asses of on this, and for that i'm sorry and again, armchair director without knowledge of what went on during production, but the stuff i mentioned can really break a show for me, especially a show that clearly thought they could get away with an extremely poor script by sprinkling a dinosaur here and there to keep us distracted.

pauland
10-03-2011, 02:49 PM
Terra Nova, really makes me wish Outcasts had been recommisioned.

If anyone in the UK doesn't know Terra Nova is being shown on Sky.

rcallicotte
10-03-2011, 03:10 PM
Writing is so subjective and acting can be. Maybe the problem with the challenges around the story had something to do with a 2-hour premiere versus one hour weekly series. There were some very good parts toward the end, I think.

As for the graphics, it looked good. The Terragen and Lightwave terrain scenes looked very good, I thought. And some of the attack scenes were pretty well done.

One thing I thought was sort of funny was when the guy loops around to pick up the lone captain who is antagonizing the dino, but he has time to say, "Well what are you waiting for?", as the car pulls up to help him escape. Several ton dino steaming at you and you have time for some dialogue? Uhhhh, no.

erikals
10-03-2011, 03:41 PM
looking again the LW renders were actually pretty decent.

the opening render of moon/earth could've been better
the city renders were half decent, but those kind of renders can be tricky.

so, all in all very good i would say, from a Lightwave point of view...

erikals
10-03-2011, 03:43 PM
Now for the CG, i know it's really easy to armchair direct, but dear god, when an ENTIRE series like Walking with Dinosaurs cost 10 million USD and looked better than most of this show (and not to mention Walking is a 13 year old show)

well, hehe, good thing you didn't see the totally new "Planet Dinosaur" then... :]
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/blogs/latest/entry/planet-dinosaur-how-has-the-cgi-gotten-worse-in-the-last-decade

 

cresshead
10-03-2011, 05:03 PM
well, hehe, good thing you didn't see the totally new "Planet Dinosaur" then... :]
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/blogs/latest/entry/planet-dinosaur-how-has-the-cgi-gotten-worse-in-the-last-decade



yeh planet dinosaur is VERY stiff animations..they hardly walk and don't appear to have proper weight..the show does however have some good information on dinosaurs and the narration is good...

okay...so looking forward to ep 03 of terra nova, i think once they can past the pilot and into the swing of production it should improve.

lardbros
10-03-2011, 06:32 PM
One thing I thought was sort of funny was when the guy loops around to pick up the lone captain who is antagonizing the dino, but he has time to say, "Well what are you waiting for?", as the car pulls up to help him escape. Several ton dino steaming at you and you have time for some dialogue? Uhhhh, no.

Ha, yeah... poor editing indeed!! Not quite sure what happened, but it wasn't great. There were a couple of scenes towards the end where there were some odd cuts and times when it should have cut away, but it hung on too long. Weird! But to be honest, it's kind of watchable... i need something to get my teeth into after the walking dead (which I really quite liked).

RebelHill
10-03-2011, 06:46 PM
the quality of writing/storytelling can often be subjective, no argument... but there are certain things that are pretty much universally agreed to be very lazy, cheap and crap.

The use of the deus ex machina is often cited as the most cardinal crime in such things, and whilst Ive seen many movies/shows END with one... I dont think Ive EVER seen one used as the beginning (ur a cop, she's a doc, a third kid... what were u thinking?)

As for planet dinosaur... I think that's gotta be FAR preferable to this schlock... Unlike Cress, I dont think PD is ALL stiff... there's actually some beautiful animation in that series... but theres also some atrocious trash (with seemingly no middle ground)... mainly of the bipedal dinos... Honestly... some of the shots reminded me of colins bear... (maybe that guy got a job at jellyfish)... so much for Softimage ;)

cresshead
10-03-2011, 06:51 PM
the quality of writing/storytelling can often be subjective, no argument... but there are certain things that are pretty much universally agreed to be very lazy, cheap and crap.

The use of the deus ex machina is often cited as the most cardinal crime in such things, and whilst Ive seen many movies/shows END with one... I dont think Ive EVER seen one used as the beginning (ur a cop, she's a doc, a third kid... what were u thinking?)

As for planet dinosaur... I think that's gotta be FAR preferable to this schlock... Unlike Cress, I dont think PD is ALL stiff... there's actually some beautiful animation in that series... but theres also some atrocious trash (with seemingly no middle ground)... mainly of the bipedal dinos... Honestly... some of the shots reminded me of colins bear... (maybe that guy got a job at jellyfish)... so much for Softimage ;)

re STIFF..yeh this weeks trex and associated biped dino's mianly...the super croc and the gliding dinos seen in past ep's were much better animated. I still think on the whole they do not match up to walking with dino's from years back...though that also had a bad habit of putting dino skin jiggle everywhere...they just couldn't help themselves!:)

erikals
10-03-2011, 07:12 PM
eh, really?
i think PD sucked... but mostly thinking of the render,

well, many different opinions when it comes to TV shows/movies... :]

 

RebelHill
10-03-2011, 08:03 PM
The rendering of PD is a funny one...

I like it, I think it looks great... but photoreal... not even close.

So as an attempt at creating a(nother) dino natural history with believable graphics... yeah, sucko. But from what I hear, they did go for a more stylised look. Reminds me a lot of disneys "dinosaur" to that extent.

jasonwestmas
10-03-2011, 08:33 PM
Watched TN tonight and I gotta say, I was surprised this even got on the air. I mean if you don't have a good plot going you have to make up for that with good character development. Both of which are in the writing and need to be more than paper thin.

I can absolutely accept the special FX as low budget as some of the shots looked, "it works" and I can see where some of the money went into the sets/ props etc. a lot of keen little details in there. BUT all that means nothing without a plot and character development. I really didn't care about the characters at all. I actually cracked up when the dino bird was crawling toward the little girl under the bed. Not a good sign.

The drama, uhh is this supposed to be a drama or one of those Disney action flicks, I couldn't decide. Maybe I've watched too many of mel gibson's dramatic movies but the drama, the action and the social situations were extremely NURFED down to death. Was this supposed to be for kids?

Chris S. (Fez)
10-03-2011, 10:04 PM
Dexter and Boardwalk Empire are both off to incredible starts. If TN was targeting a Saturday morning timeslot or attempting to be fun, witty and calculatingly campy like Dr. Who then they could possibly get away with the sloppy, childish exposition but...yeah, NURFED is the perfect word.

I think the FX are fantastic for the budget/turnaround...and that the artists deserve much better from the writers. I'm supporting the show and Lightwave jobs. Set my DVR to record the series. I hope it gets better.

JamesCurtis
10-03-2011, 10:25 PM
Just saw rhe 2nd show and it's only "okay". Need to develop a bit more story - like about the markings found on the rocks and such in the first episode - though I can kinda guess what that'll reveal down the line. Do hope the show finds itself in the next episode or so.

jasonwestmas
10-03-2011, 10:43 PM
. . .down the line. Do hope the show finds itself in the next episode or so.

Me too, successful shows with more special FX means more jobs for everyone here. But of course it takes more than just FX to make this happen.

jeric_synergy
10-03-2011, 10:52 PM
Dammit, cable picked a hell of a week to go out.

"House" premiere!

xxiii
10-04-2011, 12:05 AM
Dammit, cable picked a hell of a week to go out.

"House" premiere!

I thought this was a doctor show, but apparently its a prison dramity. "You mean the best actors are the ones who get paroled?"

TN: seems to be going down the monster of the week path, hmmmm, maybe in a few weeks the network notes people will stop paying attention and it can get on with the real story, like what happened with dollhouse.

jeric_synergy
10-04-2011, 12:28 AM
Hey, doctors go to prison too. In all fairness, House should have been jailed long ago.

nikfaulkner
10-04-2011, 01:34 AM
Hey, doctors go to prison too. In all fairness, House should have been jailed long ago.


*cough cough* SPOILER ALERT!!!! :D

jeric_synergy
10-04-2011, 02:01 AM
*cough cough* SPOILER ALERT!!!! :D
Not to worry: it's right there in the spots.

nikfaulkner
10-04-2011, 02:04 AM
haha maybe stateside. i'm a season behind over here.

just messing with you anyway :P

lardbros
10-04-2011, 06:35 AM
It's weird, I actually enjoyed the future parts more than the jungle bits. The shots, FX etc were much more believable... it was a city of the future, we don't know what they'll look like, so it looked pretty good (aside from the DOF making some parts look a bit small) I liked the blowing cloth from the top of a few buildings, nice little detail. A forest on the other hand, I've seen loads... and naturally occurring phenomena are harder to pull off. Anyway... I'll give it a chance, and probably just let it be my weekly relax hour.

Just wondering if more thought, direction occurred in the opening scenes? The camera work as it ran through the city was rather nice, the train/transport bit with the steam flying around and things, it looked very nice. Maybe the issues were down to the filming/director? If the lighting wasn't right on shoot, then the composites are going to look a little ropey, no matter how much messing around you do in post. Bet some of the comping guys/gals were pi$$ed off when they got the plates through :)

jwiede
10-04-2011, 07:34 AM
I'm trying to like it, I really am, but dang the writing makes it difficult. That scene with the little girl hiding under the table from the ptero was just painfully hilarious to watch. I was surprised the little girl hadn't already accidentally broken the thing's neck trying to dress it up in a frilly costume.

I've seen seagulls behave more aggressively around a beach snack bar, and I don't recall anyone suggesting they were a dire threat (except perhaps as disease vectors). It just seemed like the entire "threat" could have handled by issuing everyone the equivalent of baseball bats, and letting em work out frustrations until the stupid creatures got the hint and left humans alone. For that matter, don't these folks have shotguns and birdshot, or nets? They didn't need fancy pheromones, they needed a few crates of seltzer tablets and perhaps a vat of peanut butter. Heck, put up some great big plexiglass sheets and the Pteros would wipe themselves out.

Realistically, after smacking a few hundred thousand out of the sky, there'd be "Ptero-fil-a" and "El Ptero Loco" shops on every corner, the Pteros would be on the run headed for extinction, and the main concerns would be how to clean Ptero guano off statues and buildings, and whether it's humane to keep em as pets and dress em in little costumes.

Bill Carey
10-04-2011, 07:50 AM
lol, I was thinking along the same lines. The great explorers, yet not one of them picked something up to defend themselves. They should all be dead in a couple weeks.

The creatures themselves were pretty good, I just wish the writing would rise to the same level. We'll just kit bash some pheromones together in a few minutes and the dumb animals won't know the difference. Uh, huh.

xxiii
10-04-2011, 01:16 PM
Hey, doctors go to prison too. In all fairness, House should have been jailed long ago.

This is probably only the second or 3rd House I've seen, though I intend to catch up with it eventually. Its been indicated to me that we have similar personalities although I'm less outspoken/try to be more polite, and my talents revolve around computers rather than medicine.

xxiii
10-04-2011, 01:28 PM
It's weird, I actually enjoyed the future parts more than the jungle bits. The shots, FX etc were much more believable... it was a city of the future, we don't know what they'll look like, ... A forest on the other hand, I've seen loads...

Me too. I like my science fiction to be, um, science fictiony (in a good way).

And are we going to find out more about the culture? whats the government like? are there going to be elections, or is the one guy dictator or life, or what? Is this a military or a civilian deal, etc.



If the lighting wasn't right on shoot, then the composites are going to look a little ropey, no matter how much messing around you do in post. Bet some of the comping guys/gals were pi$$ed off when they got the plates through :)

I've been wondering, when I get the "thats A CG shot/element" effect, is it because the lighting doesn't match? The object isn't obeying physics, like it has no mass, or the wrong mass? These two are the ones I notice the most I think, it was rendered with a different focal length than the shot its composed into?

And then there is the "thats a blue/green screen shot", which used to be noticeable because you could see the outline, but now, if the lighting is off, or the lens/focus distance/DOF of the background doesn't match foreground, you get that tale-tale sign that its a blue-screen shot, without quite being able to put your finger on why you can tell that.

Greenlaw
10-04-2011, 02:50 PM
Wow, some of you guys are pretty harsh on Terra Nova, and it's only been two episodes. I know your own TV shows will be truly awesome though and I'm really looking forward watching them. :)

Okay, I'll be honest...I don't have any opinion about TN yet. I just downloaded it the other night and haven't seen it yet but I'm really looking forward to watching this show too.

Congratulations to all the Terra Nova artists here who worked on it! :thumbsup:

SBowie
10-04-2011, 03:41 PM
I don't think it would be unfair to say this is an group with unusually high standards for something of this sort. And I'm not entirely sure it's a reasonable representation of the target demographic. :devil:

jasonwestmas
10-04-2011, 03:45 PM
omg, no Steve Bowie, I'm not that abnormal. =) But I hope for the 3D market's sake that I am. Anybody who knows anything about half-good sci-fi writing knows this isn't it.

lardbros
10-04-2011, 03:51 PM
Wow, some of you guys are pretty harsh on Terra Nova, and it's only been two episodes. I know your own TV shows will be truly awesome though and I'm really looking forward watching them. :)

Okay, I'll be honest...I don't have any opinion about TN yet. I just downloaded it the other night and haven't seen it yet but I'm really looking forward to watching this show too.

Congratulations to all the Terra Nova artists here who worked on it! :thumbsup:

I am inclined to agree with you... i think there is quite a lot of harsh crits... it's not as bad as all that. I made it through the first episode and am going to watch the second, there are plenty of shows and films I didn't get all the way through!!

SBowie
10-04-2011, 03:58 PM
Anybody who knows anything about half-good sci-fi writing knows this isn't it.You do remember Star Trek, right? :devil:

It definitely wasn't first class sci-fi in a lot of ways, but when it comes to profitable franchises, it didn't turn out so bad.

jasonwestmas
10-04-2011, 05:16 PM
You do remember Star Trek, right? :devil:

It definitely wasn't first class sci-fi in a lot of ways, but when it comes to profitable franchises, it didn't turn out so bad.

Not being big on star trek, I liked a few of the movies. But yeah there was quite a cult following despite my opinions about what good TV is. Unfortunately I would rather watch re-runs of ST Next gen or Enterprise than TN if the next episodes are anything like last night. =(

jwiede
10-04-2011, 06:01 PM
That's just it, though, these folks wouldn't have lasted ten seconds in any ST situation. They didn't defend themselves against the Pteros, they just all ran screaming. There weren't even any dead Pteros on the ground around the armed and armored soldiers' bodies at the start of the show.

I can suspend disbelief about the show's premise, the environment, all of the "sci-fi" aspects. OTOH, when they continually portray all these hand-selected pioneers jump-starting a new civilization in an unknown environment as panicky idiots with not even the tiniest survival instincts, to the point where their stories require the characters to behave that way to work at all, I absolutely will call them on it (and if it doesn't stop quickly, I'll stop watching and move on).

Greenlaw
10-04-2011, 06:07 PM
OTOH, when they continually portray all these hand-selected pioneers jump-starting a new civilization in an unknown environment as panicky idiots with not even the tiniest survival instincts...
I think the average TV viewer might be able to relate, which might be the whole point.

Okay, now I REALLY want to see this show. :p

G.

jasonwestmas
10-04-2011, 06:12 PM
I really didn't care for the movies from the Star Trek and Star Wars franchises ( the directing and choreography stunk for the most part) but the universal appeal premise from a writers stand point has a lot more to play with and is far more interesting intellectually, socially and within that character/action hero context. And for that I give those SciFi creators a lot of kudos.

TN doesn't have that universal appeal at all to me . . .yet.

KurtF
10-04-2011, 06:44 PM
Firefly.

Of course, that got canceled.

xxiii
10-04-2011, 07:35 PM
Firefly.

Of course, that got canceled.

dollhouse, from the same guy.

I mentioned this without details before somewhere, but dollhouse basically sucked for the first 6 episodes or so. The commentary track is full of stuff like "And here is the network mandated motorcycle chase...", after the six episodes once the network (same network as TN) was satisfied they had established the tone they wanted, and stopped paying close attention, dollhouse turned into a different show and got good. (and got cancelled).

I'm just wondering if TN is undergoing the same thing.

probiner
10-04-2011, 08:15 PM
Saw it yesterday the 2 episodes (2+1). It's an ok show. I'll see more episodes of it but I'm not a fan at all.


TN doesn't have that universal appeal at all to me . . .yet.

I had that universal appeal with the first part of the first episode, the oppression, the escape, culminating with them taking the kid out of the backpack on gun point. Quite intense. The future world shots are nice.

But from there I just couldn't get into it. I had some issues with some CG (the one I could spot, lol), the storytelling/editing timing as well with the plot.

Personally one thing I think it damages the show for ppl like us, is the multiple references that it triggers, without being strong on its own. To name a few, by order.

Blade Runner/Minority Report
Stargate (portal)
Avatar (the general, the new world, the creatures)
Jurassic Park (kid feeding brontosaurus, falling from fence, family on adventure)
Lost (dad and general/jack and jonh, the others, the mystery)

In one double episode...

We'll see where it goes.

jasonwestmas
10-04-2011, 09:27 PM
That's just it, though, these folks wouldn't have lasted ten seconds in any ST situation. They didn't defend themselves against the Pteros, they just all ran screaming. There weren't even any dead Pteros on the ground around the armed and armored soldiers' bodies at the start of the show.

I can suspend disbelief about the show's premise, the environment, all of the "sci-fi" aspects. OTOH, when they continually portray all these hand-selected pioneers jump-starting a new civilization in an unknown environment as panicky idiots with not even the tiniest survival instincts, to the point where their stories require the characters to behave that way to work at all, I absolutely will call them on it (and if it doesn't stop quickly, I'll stop watching and move on).

Totally agree. . .like you said, where's the bird shot, and net launchers and cool tech. Where are the witty phrases, unpredictable problem solving and flying by the seat of your pants improvisation?

Ernest
10-05-2011, 12:29 AM
You do remember Star Trek, right? :devil:

It definitely wasn't first class sci-fi in a lot of ways, but when it comes to profitable franchises, it didn't turn out so bad.
That's not really the problem with TN.

Star Trek had some really outstandingly terrible sci-fi concepts and writing. There is nothing really terribly bad about TN. Yes, my mom did detect a couple of green screens as "cutouts," but that does not make or break a TV show.

The problem is that Star Trek had a lot of outstandingly good things. Some sci-fi concepts, like cell phones and tablets, a couple of episodes and, most importantly, almost every single character were memorable.

Let's not go too far. Alphas had some major VFX problems. Their entire season's budget was probably smaller than a single TN commercial's. But you don't see anyone discussing that when they talk about Alphas. The acting is so good and the good episodes are so outstanding that it's all you can remember at the end. A cheesy particle cloud? Was there one? I was too busy catching the next immortal quote from the AAA dialogue. And this comes from someone who hates all the other current SyFy shows.

It's like the difference between the old My Little Pony, which was boring and massively forgettable, and the new My Little Pony, which is one of the top shows in my DVR. Both are about magical, talking ponies, similar looks and powers, both work with the same themes, but one has superb dialogue and unforgettable characters.

TN doesn't need to correct anything bad. It just needs something good! A character, a plot point, an episode, an actor, a sci-fi concept... something! Right now, the graphics are the single thing worth watching for.

I'll have no problem watching every single remaining episode. There's nothing bad so far that would turn me away from supporting Pixomondo. It's like drinking water. But I don't think I'll be able to look forward to it, like with Alphas of MLP:FiM, unless something is added that the 1st 2 episodes didn't have.

Red_Oddity
10-05-2011, 03:09 AM
I don't think it would be unfair to say this is an group with unusually high standards for something of this sort. And I'm not entirely sure it's a reasonable representation of the target demographic. :devil:

My standards are not abnormally high when it comes to television, but for a show with a pilot with a rumored 20 million dollar production budget, i would have expected a bit more than this drivel.

Steve, i wonder though who you think the show is geared towards then?
It can't be Sci-Fi fans, the writing is too lazy and the characters too cliche and unbelievable.
Maybe it's for the Idols/Jersey Shore/Kardashian crowd then? Should i lower my standard to that level (because mind you, those shows are actually geared towards the average viewer.)

*edit* Just wanted to add, i know a show has to find its audience, that takes time, time studios often don't have, but i seriously hope TN does get that chance and maybe the writing will get better as the show goes on (if anything, SGU has proven you can come back very strong story wise and that superb vfx are possible on a tv budget) *edit*

*edit 2*
Also, i was pretty much expecting vfx on this level : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hAcDqyx6ZA , not, well, what we got.
*edit 2*

SBowie
10-05-2011, 05:13 AM
Steve, i wonder though who you think the show is geared towards then?I'd assume the typical prime time tv audience, maybe with a nudge toward the youthful end of the group, And from what I have seen over the years, you can scarcely go wrong underestimating what will succeed. A long list of shows that my wife and I liked have been scrapped over the years - shows with good writing, intriguing plots, good characterization, good actors. Generally, if it seems reasonably clever, and especially if it has novel aspects, it's probably doomed in the first season. On the other hand, something with a handful of morons stumbling around making crude jokes will run on endlessly, until the cast retires to enter the pantheon of 'beloved entertainers'.

alexos
10-05-2011, 05:21 AM
I don't think it would be unfair to say this is an group with unusually high standards for something of this sort.

Well, high standards... I won't comment on the CG, or the plot, or the fact that the pilot was spectacularly dull compared to a few others (even the ill-fated "Flash Forward" had a much better one) or the acting, the overblown romance and all that but, seriously: if you put in a final shot of a Happily Reunited Family staring at the Giant Moon, that's just... I don't know, wrong! What is this, the '80s?!

I'll keep watching of course, because perhaps the usual "things aren't quite what they seem" gig might provide a surprise or two; but, man. I thought "No Ordinary Family" was mawkish, but so far this takes the biscuit.

ADP.

Phil
10-05-2011, 06:24 AM
Ugh, gave it another chance. It is definitely not for me. Terrible, terrible writing and the whole setup is just ludicrously bad. 5 more minutes of teenage angst driven, family drama and I'll implode.

Can't wait for Game of Thrones to start again. That's real entertainment with seamless VFX.

Indeed. I've started listening to the audio books because I'm was intrigued to know what happened next. The pacing of both the books and the adaptation for TV never leaves you bored or annoyed, either.

inkpen3d
10-05-2011, 08:59 AM
Well, I watched the first two episodes of TN last night and, on balance, I was rather disappointed with the whole thing - definitely another missed opportunity!

I was especially unimpressed with the lacklustre and predictable plot-line, which was chock-full of tired old clichés. For example, the rebellious teenage boy gets in with the wrong crowd and ends up getting into big trouble (it's also pretty obvious that the teenage boy's ex-girlfriend is going to come back from the future and throw a spanner in the works new-found-love wise). Also, as noted by others, they should have hung back on revealing so much about the rock hieroglyphs as that could have been a real teaser (though perhaps they've still got something up their sleeves there).

Most of the CG dinosaur and scenery stuff was passable - the dinosaurs were definitely better animated than those in Planet Dinosaurs where they move like their made of wood!

All in all, it lacks the retinue of interesting characters and the intriguing plot that made Lost such a gripping series right from the start.

I'll give it another couple of episodes to see if it develops, but based on what I've seen so far, I don't have very high hopes.

[Oh, and BTW, the crap about the expansion of the universe accounting for the different star patterns they saw was totally wrong - instead the proper explanation is that individual stars in our galaxy have different relative velocities and so, over hundreds of thousands of years, they appear to wander slowly across the night sky, and in doing so, break up the familiar patterns of the constellations. In this case, it would just have happened in reverse!]

barbarry110
10-05-2011, 10:37 AM
This show isn't too bad. The effects are pretty good...especially if you're not a pro who could create better yourself. Some of the characters/plot/cliches are a little lame but you can't have it all.

Hopefully they bring a little more focus to the episodes before it gets too far into the season. I'll keep watching even if it's to see some more of the dinosaurs, can't go too wrong there...

geo_n
10-05-2011, 10:39 AM
Average show, ok CG but for 20 million?
Overused musical score to compensate for bad acting and bad script writing. I know pixomondo worked hard but season 2 unlikely. Cross fingers since this is lightwave show like CSI las vegas which is also in trouble.

Celshader
10-05-2011, 11:39 AM
The effects are pretty good...especially if you're not a pro who could create better yourself.

In truth...I suspect the Terra Nova effects are even more impressive to professionals who've worked on typical TV show schedules.

:thumbsup:

robertoortiz
10-05-2011, 12:29 PM
Agreed.
Not only are you guys doing creature animation, you are also doing set extension fx up to wazzo.

Great work guys.

Celshader
10-05-2011, 12:53 PM
Agreed.
Not only are you guys doing creature animation, you are also doing set extension fx up to wazzo.

...and CG vehicles and 100% CG environments, plus other stuff. One shot even had CG mud.


Great work guys.

Thanks. :)

RebelHill
10-05-2011, 01:59 PM
[Oh, and BTW, the crap about the expansion of the universe accounting for the different star patterns they saw was totally wrong - instead the proper explanation is that individual stars in our galaxy have different relative velocities and so, over hundreds of thousands of years, they appear to wander slowly across the night sky, and in doing so, break up the familiar patterns of the constellations. In this case, it would just have happened in reverse!]

Didnt she also say the moon moves away at about a centimetre a DAY... I thought thats what I heard.

Musta got the researchers the same place they got the writers.

Y'know jen... the general consensus seems to be falling on the side of the effects work being of a higher standard than the plot/acting/etc... maybe your lot should just club together and submit a script ;)

LW_Will
10-05-2011, 02:05 PM
omg, no Steve Bowie, I'm not that abnormal. =) But I hope for the 3D market's sake that I am. Anybody who knows anything about half-good sci-fi writing knows this isn't it.

Yeah, Jason... its not the best SciFi writing, but it might be good television writing.

I was not blown away by the pilot. It was WAY to formulaic and it did use a lot of tropes, all thrown into an Amblin salad bowl.

But, episode two was okay. Not amazing, but solid. It managed to layer the plot with bits of subtexty goodness...

I THINK that TN is trying to be a "child friendly" "family drama" that is science fiction based... no "guns" (super-science weapons, no bullets... :shrug:: ).

I think the daughter is basically a fact machine for the pseudo and real science in TN.

As to the VFX... still as good as the opener, maybe even a bit better. I wonder... Lightwave or Massive for the birds? ;-)

Bravo to all concerned.

Celshader
10-05-2011, 02:12 PM
I wonder... Lightwave or Massive for the birds? ;-)

If I remember correctly, it was LightWave for all the "hero" Maya animations (up to 13 LightWave birds in one shot) and VRay to render the Maya-instanced birds.

No Massive was used.

cresshead
10-05-2011, 06:59 PM
dinosaur suits!

I so want one!

http://youtu.be/C4cS-eEhuVM

Greenlaw
10-05-2011, 07:12 PM
They unleash one of these in the Natural History Museum here in LA everyday. My 4-year-old fondly calls it "Puppet Dinosaur!" It's surprisingly convincing, especially with the sounds it makes. :)

G.

Greenlaw
10-05-2011, 07:18 PM
Here:

Dino (Close) Encounter at LA Museum of Natural History (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIXPvaK8rn4)

I love puppets. :)

G.

jasonwestmas
10-05-2011, 07:38 PM
Yeah, Jason... its not the best SciFi writing, but it might be good television writing.

I was not blown away by the pilot. It was WAY to formulaic and it did use a lot of tropes, all thrown into an Amblin salad bowl.



Fair point, as I can only think of 3 or 4 TV shows that I would consider decent writing and appeals to my taste in the past 10 years. BSG, Human Target, Burn Notice and maybe NCIS. Merlin kept my interest but maybe I'm just a sucker for medieval/ sword n sorcery settings (yet I had no compulsion to go see harry potter soo. . .;) ) So I guess my standards are a little high in a writing context but an overall TV budget context naw, I think I'm being more realistic universally. 20 Mil for TN. . . seems excessive when looking at the bigger picture of what TV is.

probiner
10-05-2011, 07:40 PM
dinosaur suits!

I so want one!

http://youtu.be/C4cS-eEhuVM

Since the dino head is quite far from the actual head of the puppeteer how close have he been from hitting people when he makes those fast turns?

Another one, no so dynamic, but also with not legs showing up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQoUIlV4a_w&feature=related

They do make you feel a kid again =)

xxiii
10-06-2011, 12:26 AM
Didnt she also say the moon moves away at about a centimetre a DAY... I thought thats what I heard.


I'm fairly certain she said year, and I think I would have remembered if she said day (I remember observing at the time that they got that more or less right).

I don't feel like dredging up hulu right now to verify though.

In any case, the moon is moving farther away, and 1 cm/year is at least in the neighborhood; A quickie search says 3.8cm/yr is the actual value for current time. This has been verified over many years by lasers bouncing off mirrors left by the Apollo astronauts.

I don't know if their representation of its apparent size is correct for -26megayears though.

An interesting consequence of this is that the tides should be much more pronounced in TNs time, and I wonder if they will depict this. And it should be brighter at night when the moon is visible.

The earth's rotational rate should also be different in TN's time, and possibly (but not necessarily) the magnetic poles might be reversed.

And continental drift might be an issue... And the climate... Meteor strikes might be more frequent... And they might want to take a look at Mars (but only 26 megayears might not be enough)...

Mitja
10-06-2011, 06:04 AM
This show had to be an A class show. I'm irremediably downrating it to the B class!
Seriously guys, you can't pretend it to be a good show! The whole writing is just ridiculous, situations are non beliavable (when kids hide inside the house and they forget the little girl under the table?! some hypotetic ferhormones saving the day?! c'mon...)
As I said before, I'll watch it, but as someone said, it's kind of dismount-your-brain-and-leave-it-on-the-couch.

xxiii
10-06-2011, 12:00 PM
Its at least one less slot for a "reality" show while it lasts.

jwiede
10-06-2011, 10:50 PM
I'm fairly certain she said year, and I think I would have remembered if she said day (I remember observing at the time that they got that more or less right).

I don't feel like dredging up hulu right now to verify though.

In any case, the moon is moving farther away, and 1 cm/year is at least in the neighborhood; A quickie search says 3.8cm/yr is the actual value for current time. This has been verified over many years by lasers bouncing off mirrors left by the Apollo astronauts.

I don't know if their representation of its apparent size is correct for -26megayears though.

An interesting consequence of this is that the tides should be much more pronounced in TNs time, and I wonder if they will depict this. And it should be brighter at night when the moon is visible.

The earth's rotational rate should also be different in TN's time, and possibly (but not necessarily) the magnetic poles might be reversed.

And continental drift might be an issue... And the climate... Meteor strikes might be more frequent... And they might want to take a look at Mars (but only 26 megayears might not be enough)...
Umm... pretty sure they're at 85Mya, as in 20My prior to K-T/K-Pg/whatever-its-called-this-week (65Mya ago give or take).

Which brings up another nit: The opening credits show all the continents merging as time rewinds, but at 85Mya they're at the very end of the Mesozoic era, and while not placed same as now, all the continents should have been more or less distinct. They'd need to go back a heck of a lot further than 85Mya to get to a time when there was a singular Pangean supercontinent as depicted on the TN logo/credits/etc.

jwiede
10-06-2011, 11:11 PM
20 Mil for TN. . . seems excessive when looking at the bigger picture of what TV is.
That's precisely why I'm so upset about the writing quality: Writers aren't that expensive, so given the disproportionately massive budget they were allowed (compared to other series), hiring decent writers should not have been a problem.

I'm not asking that the writing be proportionately better than other shows as their budget was larger. That said, I do think it's reasonable to expect one of the better-written shows available, given the budget involved. Instead, it's pretty far down the list, IMO, in terms of writing quality of shows on air.

If the problems were just "stiff dialogue" and actors still feeling their way into their characters, I'd not be so upset, as that'll improve with time. Looking at BSG, or B5, those are the kinds of problems seen early on. The problems with TN's writing, however, are very poor characterization, improbable behavior, and a lack of creativity / strong reliance on cliches. None of those are problems that tend to "get better with time".

inkpen3d
10-07-2011, 05:39 AM
I was curious as to just how much the apparent size of the Moon would change over 85 million years as I thought TN had exaggerated it a bit...

Assuming a recession rate of ~4cm/year, the actual distance from the centre of the Earth to the centre of the moon would have changed by 3400 km over an 85 MY period. Since the current Earth/Moon distance is 384,405 km the corresponding distance 85 MY ago would have been 381,005 km. The angular sizes would be therefore be approximately 0.517 degrees today and 0.5216 degrees 85 MY ago. This is a very tiny change in angular size!

I knocked up a quick LW scene to double check this. I placed a 50mm camera on the surface of the Earth model looking at the Moon and you can hardly see any change in the angular size of the Moon between 85 MY ago and today. In fact, you have to pump up the camera focal length to 500mm in order to perceive any change in apparent angular size at all - and even then it's a very tiny jump! I've attached a render of the scene using the 500mm camera with two Moons in place - the one on the LHS is at the present day distance, and the other as it would have been 85 MY ago.

I must admit, even I was taken aback by how little change there was - anyone care to double-check my calculations?

Regards,
Peter

lardbros
10-07-2011, 07:35 AM
Ooh, interesting :)

Have you taken into account that the moon is ALWAYS bigger in the USA anyway? ;) It's MASSIVE in every show or film that has the moon in it, so for people watching the series, if it was of realistic size, people would think that the moon had shrunk. But due to years upon years of the moon being huuuuge in all telly and films for the last 60 years :D It needed to be eeeeeeeven bigger!

SBowie
10-07-2011, 07:41 AM
But due to years upon years of the moon being huuuuge in all telly and films for the last 60 years :D It needed to be eeeeeeeven bigger!Runaway inflation ...

inkpen3d
10-07-2011, 07:45 AM
Damn - no, I didn't take that into account - that would be the well known Up-Sizing American effect, would it not? ;)

lardbros
10-07-2011, 07:53 AM
Damn - no, I didn't take that into account - that would be the well known Up-Sizing American effect, would it not? ;)

Haha, exactly! :D

erikals
10-07-2011, 08:11 AM
actually, all you need to do to make it big is to zoom in on it when it's over the horizon... :]
http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/moonorange/orangemoon2.jpg
 

Cryonic
10-07-2011, 03:15 PM
I don't remember if the moon was high in the sky or not for the shot in TN, but there is a optical illusion effect when it is lower in the sky.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/05/13/why-does-the-moon-look-so-huge-on-the-horizon/

xxiii
10-07-2011, 08:51 PM
Not sure whre I got the 26myear from, and I guess i've managed to miss the opening credits so far, so I didn't realise they were depicting continental drift in them.

And yup, 4cm/yr for 85million years is only 3,400km using 3.8cm/yr I get 2,380km which is pretty insignificant compared to the total distance. However, its recession may be decellerating, which would mean it was receding at a faster rate in the past (I'm not sure if this is the case though).

As I recall, the moon was just above the treeline when they showed it, so there might have been some atmospheric magnification (not that they necessarily even thought of that). If I remember, I think I'll try to notice if there is a science advisor (and who) in the credits next time. (and they don't get accelerated and shrunk into a window by the network, which then gets shrunk into a window by the local station).

Or i'll just google: not finding one on google, or blekko, or imdb. did find out that terra nova refers to lots of things besides this tv show however.

Of course they are conveniently hiding behind Many Worlds theory, so that can explain away any discrepancies (not necessarily their character's explanations though).

inkpen3d
10-08-2011, 04:40 AM
Not sure whre I got the 26myear from, and I guess i've managed to miss the opening credits so far, so I didn't realise they were depicting continental drift in them.

And yup, 4cm/yr for 85million years is only 3,400km using 3.8cm/yr I get 2,380km which is pretty insignificant compared to the total distance. However, its recession may be decellerating, which would mean it was receding at a faster rate in the past (I'm not sure if this is the case though).

As I recall, the moon was just above the treeline when they showed it, so there might have been some atmospheric magnification (not that they necessarily even thought of that). If I remember, I think I'll try to notice if there is a science advisor (and who) in the credits next time. (and they don't get accelerated and shrunk into a window by the network, which then gets shrunk into a window by the local station).

Or i'll just google: not finding one on google, or blekko, or imdb. did find out that terra nova refers to lots of things besides this tv show however.

Of course they are conveniently hiding behind Many Worlds theory, so that can explain away any discrepancies (not necessarily their character's explanations though).

Thanks for checking over my arithmetic! :thumbsup: Yes, it is a quite surprisingly small distance (in the same order as the diameter of the Moon itself).

Counter-intuitively, the rate of recession of the Moon is actually accelerating - presumably as the gravitational influence of the Earth on the Moon progressively diminishes as dictated by the inverse-square law. Also the tidal friction of the Earth's oceans has not been constant over the aeons due to changes in the configuration of the continental land masses due to plate tectonics. So it is a rather complicated system to model over its 4.5 billion year history.

I concur that the Moon was shown just above the tree-line in the closing shot, so you would indeed get that perceptual illusion of the Moon looking bigger (since you'd have something else to compare its size to, as opposed to when it's high up in the sky). However, even taking that into illusion account, it looked far too big - in fact, HUGE! [More like it would have done a couple of billion years ago, rather than just 85 MY in the past.]

All the best,
Peter

aurora
10-08-2011, 10:32 AM
In truth...I suspect the Terra Nova effects are even more impressive to professionals who've worked on typical TV show schedules.

:thumbsup:

Based on a TV schedule? Heck Try half the movies hitting the big screen lately.

There's a lot of people that love to whine, grope and complain just about anything and everything. But the effects are indeed good. Difficult and expensive (timewise) scenes are 'smartly' hid with lighting, objects/people, and motion blur without killing the scene. The environment shoots are beautifully meshed with live footage. Story line is already complex enough to carry it a few seasons without droning on. Characters are enduring and believable, for the most part. On like 'Lost' the show appeals to all ages and both men and women.

So since Blood and Chrome currently seems to be MIA on SyFy and headed to the web-verse, TN is by far the best new show of the year. Now its a matter of properly commercializing it with talk shows, mag's and community. That's how Lost succeeded and no matter how good TN is on its own, its how it will succeed or, hopefully not, fail.

jasonwestmas
10-08-2011, 10:40 AM
Yeah I gotta hand it to the FX team, that they actually used motion blur. I mean ya gotta have it for video FX.

Celshader
10-08-2011, 11:10 AM
Yeah I gotta hand it to the FX team, that they actually used motion blur. I mean ya gotta have it for video FX.

You have no idea. ;D

Motion blur involves Python, the excamera module (http://excamera.com/sphinx/articles-openexr.html), exrTrader and post-Job scripting for Deadline. Not sure I can post more than that.

jasonwestmas
10-08-2011, 12:31 PM
You have no idea. ;D



You're more than likely correct about that. I don't go into any post production scripting that's for sure. Although I do want to learn as much as I can about HDR image formats.

Again, thanks for sharing. =)

lardbros
10-08-2011, 01:01 PM
You have no idea. ;D

Motion blur involves Python, the excamera module (http://excamera.com/sphinx/articles-openexr.html), exrTrader and post-Job scripting for Deadline. Not sure I can post more than that.

Wish you could go into more details :)

So, motion blur isn't achieved using RS motion blur or motion vectors? Would like to understand a little more! :) Not sure I understand fully what python would be used for in this instance.

I've watched the small pterodactyl episode and the creature animation was pretty nice! Very impressed by the sheer amount of them, can't imagine how many layers were used to create them all! I'm still enjoying the series if I'm honest... I like analysing how each shot has been put together.

Celshader
10-08-2011, 01:41 PM
So, motion blur isn't achieved using RS motion blur or motion vectors? Would like to understand a little more! :) Not sure I understand fully what python would be used for in this instance.

Post-process normalization of a raw motion buffer into RSMB-compatible data. ;)

jasonwestmas
10-08-2011, 02:52 PM
so the motion buffer didn't come from Lightwave? Or did you mean the normalization was post process?

Celshader
10-08-2011, 02:56 PM
so the motion buffer didn't come from Lightwave? Or did you mean the normalization was post process?

The normalization is post-process. We use exrTrader to export the raw motion vector data from LightWave along with the other render buffers.

lardbros
10-08-2011, 03:46 PM
Thanks Celshader... That actually helped me to understand a lot more! Thanks for the info. Does the data HAVE to be normalised? I thought people were using RSMB without post processing the data... Sorry, so many questions :)

Celshader
10-08-2011, 04:29 PM
Thanks Celshader... That actually helped me to understand a lot more! Thanks for the info. Does the data HAVE to be normalised? I thought people were using RSMB without post processing the data... Sorry, so many questions :)

It was better to normalize it as a post-Job script on Deadline than to have each artist guess at the max XY distance using exrTrader's post-processing abilities. If the artist chooses a max XY value that's too high, the RSMB-formatted data will appear as a blip in the histogram. If the artist chooses a max XY value that's too low, then the values of the RSMB-formatted data will fall outside of the 0.0-1.0 range and RSMB will get snippy.

If you render out raw, unprocessed motion data from the start, a Python script can analyze the entire sequence after it finishes rendering, find the hottest pixel and generate RSMB-friendly data that's normalized to the maximum X or Y value found. The data should then always have enough range for the compositor.

lardbros
10-08-2011, 05:10 PM
Ah I see! Thanks for explaining in such great detail.

It's an issue I have in 3ds max too actually. You have to render out a few test frames to find out the numbers for the fastest x or y motion in the scene, but you have to choose a frame where something is moving at the highest speed in your shot, and then grab the number, and then paste it into the motion pass setting. It's definitely something that could be made easier to use whilst doing passes that require post processing motion blur. Maybe Newtek could get something into LW11 that could automate this? Would that be possible?

jwiede
10-08-2011, 08:22 PM
Maybe Newtek could get something into LW11 that could automate this? Would that be possible?
They definitely should try and get ahead in this area, because you can bet their competitors (that don't already support em) will add these features soon enough.

Providing in-pkg analysis/processing of the vector data before export would put LW in a really good position, ahead of the others, if they can get it in quickly. Fully-supported ability to define export buffer post-processing using nodes (incl. creating additional buffers, etc.) would be a nice starting point, certainly. DPont's stuff allows some today, but with limitations to what can be produced (and put where). Far better if we could just define nodal DAGs to pull the info ourselves, do any processing needed, and define where and how it should be output. Then Mike provides EXRtrader output module support and we're golden. :devil:

BTW, this also (again) highlights how mainstream Python has become, and how critical it is that Newtek get Python integration in LW11 -- and that the integration be thorough and well-thought-out. Python's become the "duct tape" of 3D scripting. LW seems to be aspiring to be the "duct tape" of 3D pkgs, but that requires extensive Python support.

Red_Oddity
10-09-2011, 04:47 AM
Why do you do it that way Jen?
When you write out your MV data as raw float 32 exr sequences and do the normalization after your loader there never should be any problems, or am i missing something.

Then again, we replaced RSMB with the default vector blur in Fusion, which doesn't need to be normalized nor does zero motion lie on 0.5 values, all you need to know is whether or not your program internally multiplies the motion vector data with the shutter angle (0-1 for 0-360 degrees) and set the blur length accordingly.

Celshader
10-09-2011, 02:11 PM
Why do you do it that way Jen?
When you write out your MV data as raw float 32 exr sequences and do the normalization after your loader there never should be any problems, or am i missing something.

I am not sure if After Effects artists can normalize raw XY data from an EXR to RSMB specifications within After Effects.

lardbros
10-09-2011, 02:57 PM
Nope... Pretty sure. You're right Jen! Thought you were using fusion, I'm sure you can in that! Not 100% sure though :)

Celshader
10-09-2011, 08:44 PM
More LightWave goodness tomorrow at 8PM...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W1409aQ6l4

Ernest
10-09-2011, 11:26 PM
That seems like it's gonna be...
http://media3.teenormous.com/items/ih1.redbubble.net/130/work.7542886.2.fc-550x550-black.v3.jpg

Red_Oddity
10-10-2011, 07:23 AM
I am not sure if After Effects artists can normalize raw XY data from an EXR to RSMB specifications within After Effects.

Aah, then it makes sense, i was under the impression you guys worked in Fusion or Nuke.

rcallicotte
10-10-2011, 07:54 AM
Ready to record...

Bill Carey
10-10-2011, 09:53 AM
My wife is hooked, so we'll be there. :)

Celshader
10-10-2011, 12:27 PM
Aah, then it makes sense, i was under the impression you guys worked in Fusion or Nuke.

We have Nuke artists working on this project, too. :)

Celshader
10-10-2011, 12:45 PM
My wife is hooked, so we'll be there. :)

Awesome. :thumbsup:

Ernest
10-10-2011, 12:51 PM
The show lost me at episode 2. The writing is horrible and it all flows like a poor 90s family drama. I've got nothing against the VFX, but they can't carry a crap show.

We've voiced our criticisms of Eps1 & 2 in their respective threads. It's only fair to our pals to leave crits in those threads until this episode gets a chance to prove or disprove itself. I still hope against all hope that copdad will get eaten by something in this ep. He had his second chance... and it's not like it's a stretch to get eaten in that show's setting. Things could only go up from there.

Celshader
10-10-2011, 12:59 PM
Things could only go up from there.

The VFX are getting better with each episode, that's for sure. :thumbsup:

Ernest
10-10-2011, 01:47 PM
The VFX are getting better with each episode, that's for sure. :thumbsup:

They say a second of animation is worth 1000*30 words. We all thought the pilot would have the best animation of the whole series. But those little dinos in that trailer up there were my very favorite animation so far. So much so that I stopped the video right there to avoid spoiling any other pleasant surprises.

xxiii
10-10-2011, 03:35 PM
They say a second of animation is worth 1000*30 words.

Isn't it actually 1000*29.97 words? (This still gives me headaches, I'm glad HDTV got rid of it, oh, wait...)

Mitja
10-12-2011, 02:43 AM
Thanks god genetic-viral memory loss brain deseases can be cured with a cold...

inkpen3d
10-12-2011, 03:13 AM
The show lost me at episode 2. The writing is horrible and it all flows like a poor 90s family drama. I've got nothing against the VFX, but they can't carry a crap show.

:agree:

I watched episode 3 yesterday and, sadly, the script and the acting hasn't improved - if anything it's worse. After half an hour the whole thing was so dire that I was teetering on the point of changing channels.

I am afraid that I didn't find the pterosaurs anything to wax lyrical about, plus they were the only animated species in the whole episode.

Was anyone else reminded of the scene from Alfred Hitchcock's "The Birds" when all those pterosaurs were congregating on the fence of the compound?

If I were asked to sum up episode 3 in one word it would have to be "pedestrian".

alexos
10-12-2011, 04:15 AM
:agree:

I watched episode 3 yesterday and, sadly, the script and the acting hasn't improved - if anything it's worse.

Well, I watched episode 4 yesterday and... uh... yeah. It was terrible. The script is so predictable it's painful, the acting - OK, I'm no director so I probably shouldn't judge, but frankly my 7-years old kid can do a more convincing fake sneeze than that main character chap, and some of the other guys give an entirely new meaning to "overacting".

There are also some strange editing, er, "choices" (for want of a better word) like a "general laughter" scene that gets cut quite abruptly and a weird double-shot of the military guy on a bike, not to mention (and yeah, I'm nitpicking but it did annoy me) a man slamming a hyper-technological, but rather flimsy, door shut as to avoid dinosaur infiltration, only to have it slowly reopen on its own when he walks away.

It looked... rushed. But overall it looks like one of those series where you just can't force yourself to give a damn about any of the characters, because they're all rather dull or plain unpleasant (Flashforward springs to mind) and that's a very bad sign. Shame, because the CG is becoming rather good...

ADP.

Afalk
10-12-2011, 04:54 AM
Predictable scripts -- indeed, they fall prey to that, esp. to a veteran sci-fi watcher like myself and my friends. Even so, the show is quite enjoyable (CG nit picking aside) and I'll certainly keep watching it.

Willax
10-12-2011, 11:23 AM
Too funny. I'm reminded that when someone is involved in the arts in some way, they tend to be overly critical of the arts that are presented to them. Since most here are involved in 3d, or film, or acting there will always be that 'critical eye' when viewing something. Although I too, am involved in a limited way in these arts, I have viewed this show with a 'consumers' eye and have enjoyed it from that perspective. Sure, there's a lot of predictability involved, but for just mindless entertainment and visual effect I think it's been fun.

SBowie
10-12-2011, 11:52 AM
I think that's a valid point. I know people are underwhelmed with the writing so far, but I hope it settles into a nice groove. But reading these remarks, I'm reminded that Avatar wasn't exactly ground-breaking, plot-wise. And, sticking to the small screen, there were aspects of TNG (for example) that had me grinding my teeth. Both, on balance though, turned out to be pretty acceptable entertainment overall.

jasonwestmas
10-12-2011, 12:37 PM
What's funny is that mindless has some how become entertainment to some people. Not sure how that ever worked out. I can go out on my porch and be mindless, drink a beverage and enjoy myself already. Television is supposed to be more imo.

SBowie
10-12-2011, 12:49 PM
Television is supposed to be more imo.I wish I could emigrate to your planet. As far as I can see, a great deal of the more clever stuff seems to get cut by the end of the first season ... if it even makes it that far.

Celshader
10-12-2011, 12:51 PM
Television is supposed to be more imo.

Not always. Look at Jersey Shore (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhk5Rjz7xk0).

:D

probiner
10-12-2011, 12:55 PM
Don't get us wrong we of all people like fireworks. To sit back and just enjoy the visuals (It's actually a prerequisite these days).

Let's not put Terra Nova side by side with other fireworks, cause it will lose. Hopefully the show will get its own "wooooooowww..." effect without the need to rest on other references.

This last episode was quite cool, apart from the miraculous brain damage recover in the end, and again the drama. Those little dinossaurs were the best so far, really well done.

Cheers

jasonwestmas
10-12-2011, 01:01 PM
Not always. Look at Jersey Shore (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhk5Rjz7xk0).

:D

"Supposed to be". . .supposed to be. :) I didn't suppose anything in regards to reality TV. I have already enough reality in my life and I don't need more. So I say. . .No thanks to reality television producers and so called reality thinkers. I'll stick to the creative thinking.

jasonwestmas
10-12-2011, 01:03 PM
I wish I could emigrate to your planet. As far as I can see, a great deal of the more clever stuff seems to get cut by the end of the first season ... if it even makes it that far.

Yes, I like to pretend that I do live on another planet. That's how I keep my sanity. I do hope for the best on any TV channel.

jasonwestmas
10-12-2011, 01:05 PM
Don't get us wrong we of all people like fireworks. To sit back and just enjoy the visuals (It's actually a prerequisite these days).

Let's not put Terra Nova side by side with other fireworks, cause it will lose. Hopefully the show will get its own "wooooooowww..." effect without the need to rest on other references.

This last episode was quite cool, apart from the miraculous brain damage recover in the end, and again the drama. Those little dinossaurs were the best so far, really well done.

Cheers

I like fireworks and dinos just as much as the next guy but I don't want it every week and most likely not on TV from what I've seen. :D This has nothing to do with the quality of the FX, they are quite good in many regards.

probiner
10-12-2011, 01:16 PM
I like fireworks and dinos just as much as the next guy but I don't want it every week and most likely not on TV from what I've seen. :D This has nothing to do with the quality of the FX, they are quite good in many regards.

I said that in the respect it was being compared to avatar, which i didn't particularly liked the plot/message, but one could just forget about it and enjoy the the show and "wooo hooo" inside.

jasonwestmas
10-12-2011, 01:20 PM
I said that in the respect it was being compared to avatar, which i didn't particularly liked the plot/message, but one could just forget about it and enjoy the the show and "wooo hooo" inside.

I'll just go on a rollercoaster and drink a lemonade for whoo hoo ;) But I guess the TV subscription is cheaper and closer to home which is the main point I guess.

Ernest
10-12-2011, 03:14 PM
Finally! A sci-fi show that puts geeks in their proper place! After years of sci-fi shows slowly giving more prominent roles to geeks, even to the point of making them... gasp! protagonists, what a breath of fresh air it is to have a show put geeks in their rightful place again. Basically, there are 2 types of geeks. Male geeks are winy, cowardly losers that you can't trust to stay alone with your wife for a second because they could never get a girlfriend of their own, even if they have the most important civilian position in the entire planet. Their functions are to make gadgets for the athletic, gun-toting, ab-toting, Jim Everyman cowboy to do the actual saving of the day, and to be physically abused by said Jim Everyman while suffering a degenerative neural disease, for the laughs. Yeah! Because all of high school was not enough! Female geeks serve as hot sex objects for the Jim Everymans. Seriously, other than the massive physical attraction and the mutual love for their kids, have Jim and Elizabeth shared anything? Have they had one single meaningful conversation about anything since the show started?

I don't really mind that. I don't believe in political correctness and if it's my turn to take the hit, I'll take it gladly, as long as the show is fun. The problem is that the writers seem to have very clear what group they should NOT be catering to. And it's the same group that cares about intelligent writing.

There is a theory that, in an infinite universe, or in an infinite number of dimensions, every possible variation of every possible planet has to exist. I personally think that theory is a load of bollocks. However, in such a universe there would exist other Terranova shows:

--A non-stop dinosaur-chasing, wacky, adrenaline-rushy, adventure starring Brendan Frasier.

--A grab-your-armchairs-with-your-nails, multi-layered, political conspiracy full of suspense and intrigue spanning two diametrically opposite civilizations 85-million years apart starring David Strathairn.

--A wondrous voyage of learning through the richness of a lost world where around every corner, there is a discovery backed up by solid recent scientific data, starring Morgan Freeman.

All of those done with the same top-notch animation team that did such an awesome job with those junkie little dinos last night.

Random pondering: In what year of acting school do they teach you how to sneeze believably? Does my CG work make me see sneezing more critically than normal people would?

Actually, when Jim sneezed I cheered that the "away team" was already gone and locked in quarantine. I said, "Yes! If the infected ones weren't already securely locked up , I bet the writers would be lame enough to try to kill the neural disease with Jim's flu!" LOL.

Celshader
10-12-2011, 03:32 PM
All of those done with the same top-notch animation team that did such an awesome job with those junkie little dinos last night.

As always, much obliged. I think you'll like the FX in the next episode, too.

:beerchug:

SBowie
10-12-2011, 03:42 PM
I personally think that theory is a load of bollocks. However, in such a universe there would exist other Terranova shows:Ooh ooh! If there's one where Pauley Shore and John Heder are both gobbled up by dino's in the first 5 minutes I'm there!

OnlineRender
10-12-2011, 03:50 PM
Animation and VFX == Saves the SHOW!

Red_Oddity
10-12-2011, 04:26 PM
Saw ep 3 (or 2, what ever the count is after the pilot), i must say, the little flying dinos where done a lot better than i had expected, the animation was nice, and they where nicely composited in the shots.

Can't say the same about the writing or acting though, that seem to have taken another nose dive...

Seriously, i give this show one more chance (god knows i gave that pile of fecal matter called Falling Skies 4 episodes) and if by then it doesn't get any better, i give it up for some entertainment that is more interesting to watch or is better written (which could be any where between a docu on watching grass grow or a random porno flick)

OnlineRender
10-12-2011, 06:26 PM
Saw ep 3 (or 2, what ever the count is after the pilot), i must say, the little flying dinos where done a lot better than i had expected, the animation was nice, and they where nicely composited in the shots.


all I seen was exaggerated Motion Blur ....... rigging looked good and agree the where comped " in "very nice , except for the crappy acting ducking and diving ....unlike esp1-2 on the last freaking shot of the show ..................GREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN SCREEN ALERT.

honestly the VFx save the show .....

This is why its sucky ....... .I never fall asleep or change channels , NEVER! done this on both episodes , don't even do that on Smallvile .. maybe its UK thing.

jwiede
10-12-2011, 06:29 PM
a man slamming a hyper-technological, but rather flimsy, door shut as to avoid dinosaur infiltration, only to have it slowly reopen on its own when he walks away.
I was rolling on the floor when the uber-high-tech protective screen door slowly opened back up as Cop-dad walked into the tunnel. Maybe one of the Ni-eating dinos could have closed it for them? Worth a laugh if nothing else.

With each new episode, I wonder more and more where all that money went.

OnlineRender
10-12-2011, 06:32 PM
+ 1 if you want the SON to get munched by a SLASHER !

jeric_synergy
10-12-2011, 07:36 PM
You want good writing (and acting, thank you Australia), you'll just have to go back to watching "Farscape" reruns.

xxiii
10-12-2011, 07:49 PM
Well, I watched episode 4 yesterday and... uh... yeah. It was terrible. The script is so predictable it's painful, the acting - OK, I'm no director so I probably shouldn't judge, but frankly my 7-years old kid can do a more convincing fake sneeze than that main character chap, and some of the other guys give an entirely new meaning to "overacting".


This is giving me flashbacks to the usenet discussions of the initial episodes of Babylon 5.

xxiii
10-12-2011, 08:15 PM
Predictable scripts -- indeed, they fall prey to that, esp. to a veteran sci-fi watcher like myself and my friends. Even so, the show is quite enjoyable (CG nit picking aside) and I'll certainly keep watching it.

Generically speaking, we've done:

Aliens (dinosaurs) invade the ship (colony).

Mysterious disease threatens everyone.

We still need:

Commanding officer is relieved of duty (may not work if the commanding officer isn't "loved", as appears to be the case here).

Important character is on the verge of death and is saved in the last 30 seconds.

A war is averted in the last 30 seconds.

Mutiny.

Resource problems.

Hostage situation.

Misunderstood entity of some sort who is viewed as a threat but isn't really.

Kids in charge/only ones able to fix something.

An unpopular order/directive needs to be enforced/overturned (sometimes combined with the relieved of command).

Someone is put on trial, kangaroo-style.

A major character is an open-and-shut/caught red-handed suspect in some crime.

Someone is being critically evaluated, usually disfavorably.

There is an imposter/doppleganger.

Some part of someone's personality becomes way over-dominant (goes with the disease episode sometimes).

And, someone loses their body/mind (they are possessed, or transferred into another one), having trouble seeing TN pulling this one off though.

And something I think TN is very likely to do: the need to catch/control something very large and/or dangerous (hmm, I'm actually looking forward to this one actually).

I'm sure there are other cliches that most sci-fi shows usually do, but these are the ones coming to mind at the moment. (But I'm a sci-fi fan in spite of this; I don't blame the genre).

I missed the previews for next week's episode, so I'm not sure which of these is next :)

xxiii
10-12-2011, 08:24 PM
Too funny. I'm reminded that when someone is involved in the arts in some way, they tend to be overly critical of the arts that are presented to them.

As a computer professional, I go nuts with the typical presentation of computers in tv/movies, ESPECIALLY the sound effects they add.

Also, the car in one corner of video from a low resolution security camera at night during a rainstorm, but I'll just hit "Sharpen More" 400,000 times, until I can read the license plate...

The last episode (that I saw) of Law and Order: something or other, I couldn't believe they had sucummed to the "high-tech conference room" syndrome.

Willax
10-12-2011, 10:29 PM
Ahh, brings back fond memories of the original Flash Gordon, hehe

JCG
10-13-2011, 12:46 AM
This is giving me flashbacks to the usenet discussions of the initial episodes of Babylon 5.

I wonder if TN could apply the same "fix" that B5 used...?
(http://0.tqn.com/d/movies/1/0/i/j/W/tron-legacy-photo-bruce-boxleitner.jpg)

alexos
10-13-2011, 02:57 AM
This is giving me flashbacks to the usenet discussions of the initial episodes of Babylon 5.

Hah, yes. And as a matter of fact, Terra Nova does have a certain... eighties quality to it. I mean, if we recorded now a piece of video to tell our friends about some terrible danger - even using the cheapest webcam available - we wouldn't expect it to be all jumpy and occasionally distorted, would we? Drop a frame here and there maybe, but don't go all "KSSSHKK-blip!" on us. But in the '80s it would have, because back then that stuff was difficult! And and, only now I realize, they're using Mad Max's cars and bikes, and costumes too - at least the "evil" (hah! Yeah, right) guys, because it's a well-known fact that rebels cannot have proper uniforms or, for that matter, clean clothes.

But having said that... Babylon 5 had JMS at the helm; Terra Nova has Brannon Braga and, much as I liked ST: Voyager, I'm finding it hard to maintain my optimism.

ADP.

SBowie
10-13-2011, 06:32 AM
... it's a well-known fact that rebels cannot have proper uniforms or, for that matter, clean clothes. That's one area where Galactica did a little better. Protagonists were sometimes articulate, intelligent and well groomed snakes, including politicians, *former friends under some malign influence, some who could make an interesting case for their side on principal ... and even the cyclons were squeaky clean.

* You can always recognize these people in any production, because whenever they are aligned with the dark side they get all squinty.

Pixanaut
10-14-2011, 07:16 PM
I'm frustrated by the amount of money dumped into this show, based on its mediocre writing. I think the general public has been spoiled by cable TV, whereas network TV is hamstrung by clumsy commercial breaks every few minutes. It is detrimental to the narrative flow and to the viewer's engagement in the show.

To think that this season (if it goes to a full season) will run approx. $100million is mind boggling. Fox could have given us 2 more seasons of Firefly with that! (Yep, I know. I went there... moving on.)

At any rate, I believe the show would have been much better on cable, where an hour program isn't interrupted by the latests Ford or Glade commercial. I think the series will view much better once it hits DVD, but I still don't think 'better' is 'good enough' to warrant a second viewing on DVD.

I feel bad that the vfx guys are putting in their all, but their starting the race on a horse that is already lame. Emmy nod for vfx next year? Probably. Quality television show? Not really.

If they're going to wait 22 episodes, or even 12 for that matter, until the whole 'glyphs on the rock' stuff is explored, they'll have used up their goodwill and find themselves tipping over the cancellation bubble.

@ xxiii - I gotta agreed with you on the whole sciencey sounds that computers make in TV shows. The blips and beeps drive me NUTS too. So stupid. The other that gets me is when the camera is on the actor's face, and there is a projection of the computer screen on it. Again, so stupid. Sound guys and directors who do these things need to be reprimanded. Severely.

xxiii
10-14-2011, 08:11 PM
spoiled by cable TV, whereas network TV


Having discovered and devoured Breaking Bad over the last 3 weeks or so, I'm having trouble with "network quality" (not that I wasn't having trouble before).



actor's face, and there is a projection of the computer screen on it.

Yeah, it was cool (replace with word du jour) in Alien, but to paraphrase Heinlein "cool once". (I feel this way about shaky cam too: Please, please stop already).

I can handle when directors or cinematographers do things for stylistic or artistic reasons, if they do them well (which is why I tend to give Hackers a pass; a guilty pleasure) but frequently they fail to pull it off.

Celshader
10-16-2011, 12:13 PM
New episode, new dinosaur...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0QrBIijMMQ

:lwicon:

jasonwestmas
10-16-2011, 01:35 PM
Hopefully the brewers game won't go into overtime. . . err, extra innings this week so I can actually see the dinos. Baseball is the only ballgame without a time limit and the defense has the ball.

GregMalick
10-16-2011, 09:20 PM
I kinda lost interest after the initial first two hours.
I think there are way too many producers which gives the story a murky direction. I remember thinking as all those producer names were flashing at the beginning, "this isn't a good sign".

But I like the dinosaurs. Very LightWavian.
Unfortunately, good CG isn't enough to keep me interested in a TV show.
Very unfortunate, I suppose.

Ernest
10-17-2011, 12:02 AM
Interesting trailer because they finally asked -The Question-. Hopefully this will be the episode where the story starts.

Celshader
10-17-2011, 09:58 AM
But I like the dinosaurs. Very LightWavian.
Unfortunately, good CG isn't enough to keep me interested in a TV show.
Very unfortunate, I suppose.

It is indeed unfortunate that you will miss tonight's episode. There's some drop-dead gorgeous creature work that I look forwards to seeing in the edit tonight.

:thumbsup:

lardbros
10-17-2011, 12:47 PM
Well, i'm going to stick to watching it... I always give these shows a bit of a chance...

Nicolas Jordan
10-18-2011, 09:44 AM
The writing is horrible and it all flows like a poor 90s family drama..

:agree: The writing has to be the weakest part of the show.

jasonwestmas
10-18-2011, 10:44 AM
The Dialogue wasn't amazing last night but soooo much better than the first and second show. It didn't feel dumbed down this time, actually cared a little bit about some of the characters. The one scene with the Dino, looked great!

Bill Carey
10-18-2011, 01:25 PM
It is indeed unfortunate that you will miss tonight's episode. There's some drop-dead gorgeous creature work that I look forwards to seeing in the edit tonight.

:thumbsup:

Very nice, looked much more like a real raptor than the Jurassic Park variety. Smaller, faster, meaner.

Greenlaw
10-18-2011, 02:34 PM
Too funny. I'm reminded that when someone is involved in the arts in some way, they tend to be overly critical of the arts that are presented to them.
I think I'm way more critical of my own work, especially at my job. I typically don't feel I have time or interest to complain about the work done by other artists (unless it is directly affecting my own work.)

If I don't like a particular movie or TV show, I just shrug my shoulders and move on to the next thing. I prefer to focus my energy on something more productive (like working on my own projects) rather than ripping apart other people's creations.

Just my two and a half cents worth. :p

G.

KurtF
10-18-2011, 02:53 PM
Best writing yet:

"Do you know where you are?"
"I'm under a table."

and:

"I'd like to court you. That's how people used to do it."
"Technically, that's how they will do it. But then, they'll also wear corsets."

So yah, it's improving. Now if they'll explain this hidden agenda thing, it might make more sense. After all - there's no evidence of humans 85 million years ago, so the whole project is doomed to failure. Why go back? Why not go forward 3000 years to a point where the planet is starting to heal itself. That would make much more sense.

Greenlaw
10-18-2011, 03:38 PM
Why not go forward 3000 years to a point where the planet is starting to heal itself. That would make much more sense.
Because dinosaurs are sooooo cool! :)

probiner
10-18-2011, 04:49 PM
It needs a bit more of:

http://vimeo.com/10857606

:D

mosconariz
10-18-2011, 08:10 PM
It seems they burned all the money in lw-maya dinos and nothing was left for props: http://io9.com/5851122/the-most-expensive-show-on-television-uses-nerf-guns-as-props :P

Greenlaw
10-18-2011, 08:32 PM
No, no, no! Nerf gun designs are based on ancient weapons discovered at a prehistoric archaeological dig.

G.

Cryonic
10-18-2011, 08:56 PM
Best writing yet:

"Do you know where you are?"
"I'm under a table."

and:

"I'd like to court you. That's how people used to do it."
"Technically, that's how they will do it. But then, they'll also wear corsets."

So yah, it's improving. Now if they'll explain this hidden agenda thing, it might make more sense. After all - there's no evidence of humans 85 million years ago, so the whole project is doomed to failure. Why go back? Why not go forward 3000 years to a point where the planet is starting to heal itself. That would make much more sense.

As explained in the pilot, they don't control when they go to. They did send a probe back and couldn't find it anywhere in their time or in the history record, so the past is a branch off our timeline (either an alternate reality altogether or time diverges after their arrival).
The commander stepped into the portal just a few steps ahead of his men and ended up alone for 100 days before they showed up. So the portal is also not 100% stable about when it links to.

erikals
10-18-2011, 09:15 PM
It seems they burned all the money in lw-maya dinos and nothing was left for props: http://io9.com/5851122/the-most-expensive-show-on-television-uses-nerf-guns-as-props :P

:thumbsup:

Ernest
10-19-2011, 12:48 AM
When you promote and episode with:
Bad Guy Supreme: You've been lied to. You think it's a new beginning? Ask me what Terranova really is about. I'm trying to convince you to come to our side so, Come on ask me!
Good Guy Supreme: WHAT IS TERRANOVA ABOUT?

I really don't expect when the show finally airs for the next line to be:
BGS: You'll see. I'm not telling... for no particular reason.

Actually, in this case, I actually did expect it but it would have been great if they hadn't sunk that low. Especially, in the same episode that was promoted with "Commander: We're going to war!" and then in the episode "Commander: Next time... We're going to war!"

It seems that the big dark secret about Commander Taylor is that he actually IS 100% good. There's some originality in that, in a strange kind of way.

Other than that, it was by far the best episode yet. Maybe it's just because the Newt-like kid was the most interesting and charismatic warm-blooded creature to appear on screen so far. A likable character can make pretty bad writing enjoyable. Just look at Castle.

The dino of the day was the best yet. When it fell on it's side and jumped back up, the little animator inside me almost squealed with joy.

alexos
10-19-2011, 03:46 AM
It seems that the big dark secret about Commander Taylor is that he actually IS 100% good. There's some originality in that, in a strange kind of way.

Other than that, it was by far the best episode yet...

Absolutely, an order of magnitude better than the previous ones - it looked less rushed, there was much less overacting (the, er, Supreme Evil Gal was a pleasant surprise) and at this point I have absolutely no idea where they're going with the whole "who's really good and who's really evil" gig, which is definitely a point in their favour.

Still very... conventional, but hey. And the dinosaur was fantastic! Now they only have to have a slasher -or preferably an allosaur- eat that horribly annoying Good Guy's Son (and his maybe-girlfriend) and it'll become my, er, well no, not quite my favourite show of the year - but I'll keep watching!

ADP.

pauland
10-19-2011, 03:57 AM
I'm afraid about twenty minutes of the first episode meant I wouldn't watch it again - it was that ridiculous.

I'm sure the effects for the dinosaurs are great, but for me dinosaurs have been done to death and on that basis the show is a complete cop-out on originality.

I wish the BBC had had access to the budget for a new series of Outcasts.

metahumanity
10-19-2011, 04:33 AM
I was rolling on the floor when the uber-high-tech protective screen door slowly opened back up as Cop-dad walked into the tunnel. Maybe one of the Ni-eating dinos could have closed it for them? Worth a laugh if nothing else.

With each new episode, I wonder more and more where all that money went.


You bet, the show looks extremely cheap. They slap one small dinosaur scene into each episode and thatīs it. The rest is run of the mill cheap jeep and motorcycle action with a few scenes of people walking around a studio jungle.

This show probably is an accountant scam, LOL

jasonwestmas
10-19-2011, 09:02 AM
Oh man, I wasn't kidding when I said they NURFED up this Television show.

Celshader
10-19-2011, 10:52 AM
You bet, the show looks extremely cheap. They slap one small dinosaur scene into each episode and thatīs it. The rest is run of the mill cheap jeep and motorcycle action with a few scenes of people walking around a studio jungle.

This show probably is an accountant scam, LOL

I'm not sure why you think this show looks cheap. They built 250 sets (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2011/05/fall-tv-season-fox-makes-big-bet-on-x-factor-and-terra-nova.html) for the pilot alone.

KurtF
10-19-2011, 11:48 AM
"Terra Nova," an science-fiction drama about a family that has to travel back in time to the period when dinosaurs ruled the Earth in an effort to save the planet from its demise in the future.

My question is: How? It's a one way trip, so you aren't going to discover some magic plant that absorbs CO2 and other dangerous gases and send it back to clean up the planet. You aren't going to develop some way to repair the Earth and leave it in a time capsule for 85 million years hoping that somebody discovers it (and actually uses the info for good, instead of for profits!) Cryonic's post that this is a completely alternative timeline makes the most sense. But that means that the Earth (ours, the one we know) is doomed, and the only way to escape is to bail for greener pastures.
Which is what happened on Firefly, only in a way that was a bazillion times more credible.

tischbein3
10-19-2011, 12:11 PM
Had some opertunety to view a bit if it... surprised nobody made the obvious comparison to "Earth 2" until now.....


It seems they burned all the money in lw-maya dinos and nothing was left for props: http://io9.com/5851122/the-most-expensive-show-on-television-uses-nerf-guns-as-props :P

For me, thats ok: its made for tv, so there has to be some compromises to be made. And giving some standins overpaint jobs, doesn't really hurt....( if it actually _is_ a compromise... think in line of "child play / reenactment" -> viral merchandise ).

In fact I was more annoyed by some of the time portal cg scenes: Don't get me wrong: CG was ok, especially for tv, but if you consider the amount of work wich has to be invested, in comparison to to the (expected) results, the ratio doesn't fit so well. (But again from an outside perspective its hard to judge this....)

And as for the set thing: I'm really surprised: It seems they really try to get the flower part, right: And actually try it really hard with the grass....if thats true, it would be _very_ geeky and quite ambitious.

Story wise I can't really judge for now.

Bill Carey
10-19-2011, 12:54 PM
It seems they burned all the money in lw-maya dinos and nothing was left for props: http://io9.com/5851122/the-most-expensive-show-on-television-uses-nerf-guns-as-props :P

I think that's pretty smart, the gun looks real enough. I bought a couple props from the 'new' outer limits show a while back when they were selling them on the web auction just to see how the pros do it. What I learned was they don't spend one more minute or dollar on those props than absolutely required and we the viewers never know the difference.

xxiii
10-19-2011, 01:34 PM
When you promote and episode with:
Bad Guy Supreme: You've been lied to. You think it's a new beginning? Ask me what Terranova really is about. I'm trying to convince you to come to our side so, Come on ask me!
Good Guy Supreme: WHAT IS TERRANOVA ABOUT?

I really don't expect when the show finally airs for the next line to be:
BGS: You'll see. I'm not telling... for no particular reason.


Welome to network TV promo departments. This IS the network that spent several weeks telling us exactly what was in the box before firefly aired.



The dino of the day was the best yet. When it fell on it's side and jumped back up, the little animator inside me almost squealed with joy.

Yes, this was nice.


run of the mill cheap jeep and motorcycle action

This supports my like dollhouse claim: network exec: "We need motorcycle chases". producer: "But its 85 million years ago in a jungle". exec: "so?"


My question is: How? It's a one way trip, so you aren't going to discover some magic plant that absorbs CO2 and other dangerous gases and send it back to clean up the planet.

I think those are called trees, hopefully they aren't all gone by 2149 (were there any in future city?) but anyway, They DO have two-way communication, so all they have to do is send the relevant genetic code back.

Terra Nova is about (theories):

Collecting exotic pets for a rich private collector's zoo.

Discovering medicines from long extinct plants and animals and sending the knowledge back.

Getting rid of the troublemakers and predicted troublemakers (although there must be more because they would otherwise just throw them in and forget about them).

Its not really a one way trip (but this is super code ultraviolet eyes-only need to know and not even them knowledge). They are starting to insist on the one-wayness enough to invoke the story telling maxim that the more you insist on it, the less likely it is to be true.

There are other portals (see above secrecy requirements).

Its not really an alternate timeline (slashers not withstanding), but they were told that so they wouldn't have qualms about "fixing" the planet. (This could cause a lot of problems though).

The commander was intentionally left there for 100+ days on his own.

The first time we find out what TN is really about, it will be incorrect or at least not the whole story.

The trick, as JMS (B5) has observed, is that you need ongoing mysteries, but you eventually have to solve them, preferably with something that leads to another, bigger mystery, so the audience will be satisified, while still having something to look forward to. (and you need the network or studio PR department to not screw it up. I've not bothered to see several movies because of the trailers (are you listening promo department???))

My observation is that almost no TV shows do this. They either try to sustain it forever, or they answer it in an unsatisfying way that doesn't lead anywhere. TN: too early to tell.

Ok, speculating is fun. :)

Cryonic
10-19-2011, 06:32 PM
Its not really an alternate timeline (slashers not withstanding), but they were told that so they wouldn't have qualms about "fixing" the planet. (This could cause a lot of problems though).


Not sure I get the big deal about the slashers. We still don't have a full catalog of creatures alive today and have an even worse record about back then. It is possible that creatures like them existed. Ankylosaurs had a giant hammer on their tail. Stegosaurs had spikes on theirs. So why not a serrated bone at the end.

jasonwestmas
10-19-2011, 07:38 PM
Not sure I get the big deal about the slashers. We still don't have a full catalog of creatures alive today and have an even worse record about back then. It is possible that creatures like them existed. Ankylosaurs had a giant hammer on their tail. Stegosaurs had spikes on theirs. So why not a serrated bone at the end.

Because scientists know all and never change their minds. ;)

Dexter2999
10-19-2011, 09:49 PM
I think that's pretty smart, the gun looks real enough. I bought a couple props from the 'new' outer limits show a while back when they were selling them on the web auction just to see how the pros do it. What I learned was they don't spend one more minute or dollar on those props than absolutely required and we the viewers never know the difference.

I remember how disappointed I was when I first saw a Star Trek Next Generation phaser up close for the first time...painted wood. Something most anyone could make in wood shop.

IgnusFast
10-22-2011, 12:51 AM
I had been really disappointed with this show, prior to the most recent episode. I'd intended for this to be the last one I watched, but it was actually interesting enough for me to come back at least another time. :)

jwiede
10-22-2011, 10:18 PM
I had been really disappointed with this show, prior to the most recent episode. I'd intended for this to be the last one I watched, but it was actually interesting enough for me to come back at least another time. :)
I found this last one more interesting as well, but my patience is really running out. The writing was actually more interesting than prior ones, but cliches still scuttle in the corners like vermin, and adding a mystery box (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MysteryBox) does little to solve that.

Let us see events from the beginning instead of constantly feeling like this show is a sequel to some better show where all the interesting motivating events and drama actually occurred. If you want to have mysteries, fine, but stop relying on offscreen events as the source of nigh-all driving motivation in the show. If you want me to care about the show's characters, show me why their goals and motivations matter, don't just expect me to believe they do because I'm told so.

jasonwestmas
10-22-2011, 11:37 PM
If you want to have mysteries, fine, but stop relying on offscreen events as the source of nigh-all driving motivation in the show. If you want me to care about the show's characters, show me why their goals and motivations matter, don't just expect me to believe they do because I'm told so.

Good point. The source of an engaging drama is to understand the goals and why they are important to a human sense of value.

lardbros
10-23-2011, 05:06 AM
I am still watching it... and despite the little girl's lisp and poor acting, I am actually still enjoying it, and more so as I get into it. The acting isn't brilliant, (the english guy annoys me quite a lot), and the son too, but the story I can see evolving quite a bit and becoming more interesting as each episode progresses. Just think it had to have a little warm up first.

Celshader
11-04-2011, 11:26 AM
Just wanted to thank everyone who's watched the show so far and to encourage folks to catch next Monday's episode, starring Godzilla:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8dOhItD8Hs

lardbros
11-04-2011, 12:14 PM
Still going to watch.... this next episode looks awesome! :D Thanks for the link Jen!

erikals
11-04-2011, 12:36 PM
looks VERY nice! :]

LW_Will
11-04-2011, 01:07 PM
Just wanted to thank everyone who's watched the show so far and to encourage folks to catch next Monday's episode, starring Godzilla:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8dOhItD8Hs

Well, if you are going to get real guest stars with a proven track record, I can't refuse!

Wow... Godzillia!

;-)

ncr100
11-05-2011, 09:24 PM
I really enjoyed the episode where the child is found running in the woods, the writing held onto me much moreso than other episodes!

Afalk
11-06-2011, 03:59 AM
I've been pleased with the progress of the show overall, definitely seems to be getting better as we move forward!

AF

metahumanity
11-06-2011, 10:19 AM
Just wanted to thank everyone who's watched the show so far and to encourage folks to catch next Monday's episode, starring Godzilla:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8dOhItD8Hs

[email protected] job you guys are doing!

Unfortunately the same canīt be said about the writers. But that one Iīll watch. Asteroids and meteors are always cool ;-)

Ernest
11-09-2011, 06:30 PM
spoilers ahead if you haven't watched the last episodes.

Yes, when a potential colony-destroying Godzilla is heading straight towards the fence and the only hope of stopping it is throwing an arrow at precisely 73 feet, I would also -totally- choose the cop who has probably never even seen, much less held, a bow in his entire life to throw the flaming arrow. It makes total sense. Not to mention that even if it had been a gun, how much shooting training could he have done during all those years in prison?

This is not a criticism on the show, but on the colony's educational system: how is it possible that if there is a type of mud that can drive away slashers, only the military knows about it? Isn't it like the most important thing that every kid should be taught in school?

I still wonder how Mira could take half a pilgrimage out of the colony but not a little box that was hidden in her own room. They were treated like any other colonist so it's not like she was being closely watched and we've seen that even kids can cross the fence undetected easily. Why couldn't she take it with her when they escaped? I don't even really see how they or their plan benefited from escaping but there could be an unspoken reason for it. But for not taking the box that was her entire mission?

Now that the negative stuff is out of the way, something quite extraordinary happened. For the first time since the show started, a character did something interesting and intriguing, which, I guess, makes him the first interesting and/or intriguing character we have seen. And from quite an unexpected source.

We know of the barman's connection with the sixers. We know that Lang's rules hurt his business. We know that Lang had physically abused him. Why did he save him? There were no witnesses. It was not even a rash decision. He saw a sixer being chased and he went directly to where Lang was fighting and killed the other guy to protect him. Why? Intriguing.

jasonwestmas
11-09-2011, 06:35 PM
"Jeeze Donnie, why do you have to get all smart on us!"

Darko Academy

IgnusFast
11-09-2011, 08:26 PM
I was driven to distraction by the fact that when the young couple were climbing the tree, briefly but CLEARLY visible are a large yellow piece of equipement and the upper torso of a crewmember. That's just un-freaking forgivable in an effects show, let alone one this expensive.

And the giant dinosaur is afraid of a bunch of bits of food waving torches, but somehow stares down the encampment with a raging bonfire feet from his face?

Great effects this time, but the writing just blows and the filmmaking seems sloppy.

I keep hoping, but....

Cryonic
11-09-2011, 08:35 PM
I stopped watching this ep when the EMP took out the MILITARY HARDWARE. Excuse me, but even our current hardware for the military is hardened. So, while a power grid might get hit, radios and pulse rifles and vehicles would continue to function just fine...

metahumanity
11-09-2011, 10:35 PM
Now that the negative stuff is out of the way, something quite extraordinary happened. For the first time since the show started, a character did something interesting and intriguing, which, I guess, makes him the first interesting and/or intriguing character we have seen. And from quite an unexpected source.

We know of the barman's connection with the sixers. We know that Lang's rules hurt his business. We know that Lang had physically abused him. Why did he save him? There were no witnesses. It was not even a rash decision. He saw a sixer being chased and he went directly to where Lang was fighting and killed the other guy to protect him. Why? Intriguing.

Or just more abysmal writing..

He didnīt kill Avatar-guy because...itīs so heart-warming to see "enemies" saving each other in a crisis.

And hey, what about the emergency lever to open their multimedia room....from the outside? That one cracked me up. You know, the shielded room that protects their hyper important computer system that you can only enter by punching in 27 codes and using a keycard....or just pulling down the BIG RED LEVER right net to the door? Yeah, that one.

NEVER use the holodeck without taking a 5 year old with you to crawl through the maintenance tunnel no adult fits in, or youīre screwed.

Yep, Iīm talking about the EMP-shielded room where they DONīT store the chip making dooda they need to make chips in case the chip making dooda gets fried by an EMP.

You know? The EMP that fried ALL systems needed to protect the colony and keep the fence runing? yeah, that one..

But hey, good thing that a colony dependant on fences that depend on chips that depend on chip making doodas that can be fried by EMPs has a group of technicians to maintain them...oh wait, no, the bar-owner dabbled in electronics before he became a shadowy figure that runs a bar, we donīt need technicians.

And luckily he happened to have the only EM safe gun with ONE bullet. Yeah, letīs go to dinotopia only with electric guns and bows, good idea!

Seriously, I started enjoying this show just for the fun of being slapped in the face with one nonsensical scene and idea after another. Worst writing I have seen in YEARS.

But hey, it had a dramatic band-worm removal scene. Uh uh uh..

And why did Avatar-guy say that there was something on Godzillaīs back while he looked at the arrow in its LEG?

steve0077
11-09-2011, 10:44 PM
The emp took out every piece of electronic except for the chip repair machine.

JCG
11-09-2011, 10:55 PM
I stopped watching this ep when the EMP took out the MILITARY HARDWARE. Excuse me, but even our current hardware for the military is hardened. So, while a power grid might get hit, radios and pulse rifles and vehicles would continue to function just fine...

So you missed the part where a kid ingested a parasite and the thing magically teleported out of his alimentary tract without perforating his stomach or intestines.

...unless the doctor actually cut blindly into the intestine using a local anesthetic and dug in the hole with her fingers without looking.

You might need to do a little research to find out about military-grade EMP shielding, but it doesn't take a medical consultant to know that you can't pull something out of the intestine by punching a hole in a kid's belly. It's 3rd grade course material.


But hey, good thing that a colony dependant on fences that depend on chips that depend on chip making doodas that can be fried by EMPs has a group of technicians to maintain them...oh wait, no, the bar-owner dabbled in electronics before he became a shadowy figure that runs a bar, we donīt need technicians.Since people can't go back to the future, it kind of makes you wonder who built the fence.

metahumanity
11-09-2011, 11:44 PM
The emp took out every piece of electronic except for the chip repair machine.

No, it was fried. The bar owner repaired it.

Red_Oddity
11-10-2011, 03:17 AM
The vfx work seems to have improved a lot (though there is the occasional 'clueless intern' fx shot.

The writing however....dear god...if Paris Hilton where the writer, after a car crash, lobotomized by the steering wheel protruding from her forehead, that would go some way into explaining why the scripts are so utterly mediocre.

wesleycorgi
11-10-2011, 04:45 AM
It's funny, I told my wife to DVR Terra Nova at the start of the season. But I have yet to see a whole episode through (been traveling quite a bit). When I am home, I fall asleep within 5 minutes when she watches (this isn't because the episode is necessarily boring, but because of my jet lag). Then she deletes it, thinking that I watched it all. (Luckily she doesn't watch Walking Dead, because I'd be po'ed if she deleted an episode before I watched it all.)

Based on how Terra Nova has been brutalized in these forums, perhaps I'm not missing anything. :)

Celshader
11-10-2011, 05:01 PM
Based on how Terra Nova has been brutalized in these forums, perhaps I'm not missing anything. :)

Only the state-of-the-art in TV broadcast VFX. :thumbsup: I'm bummed that Cryonic missed out on our nifty Empirosaur.

jwiede
11-10-2011, 05:31 PM
Only the state-of-the-art in TV broadcast VFX. :thumbsup:
Ah so the yellow equipment and human torso were CG, then? Nice!

aurora
11-10-2011, 06:06 PM
Based on how Terra Nova has been brutalized in these forums, perhaps I'm not missing anything. :)

Only the state-of-the-art in TV broadcast VFX. :thumbsup: I'm bummed that Cryonic missed out on our nifty Empirosaur.

See there's a big problem when it comes to shows of any type and it's this.

Give 100 people a 200carat perfect white diamond and 100 of them will complain its not 201 carats, 50 will complain that they want a colored diamond, 40 will call it a hoax as there is no such thing as a perfect diamond, 5 of them will want a sapphire or ruby, and 4 of them will find some way to claim its immoral to have such a treasure.

Cageman
11-10-2011, 06:19 PM
Ah so the yellow equipment and human torso were CG, then? Nice!

Not sure where you are going with this, but it would be kind of cool if you could elaborate on this more.

probiner
11-10-2011, 06:43 PM
Ah so the yellow equipment and human torso were CG, then? Nice!

Ok ok you are right... It just comes out as a bit rude :D
Of course it's also a bit rude to sell something different from what it is. I don't agree with Celshader, but heck, what do I know about "state-of-the-art in TV broadcast VFX"?

I could not say that Terranova is one of those many comics I have bought that I didn't give a crap about the story, cause they weren't even in a language I could understand, but the visuals would CONSUME me. I would not say that in the advent of the writing and storytelling failing, that I would see this show just for the visuals, if it wasn't because it has a LW on it's back.

And lets face it you guys probably do a heck of a job, but the tech is not what comes out on this show. It's the jungle. It's not even the dinossaurs, it's the possibility they might show up for some seconds.

I do not see in this show time, time to look at the dinosaurs and appreciate them, be curious about them, simply observe them. They're props. Put them out, shake them, and off to the next thing.
The jungle, the target audience, the timing, makes this look like Zena and Hercules shows... which I enjoyed, in due time.

So even if I don't like some of the VFX, I would say this show needs more VFX time. More into the wild (not lets go camping in a jungle fort), more tech, more leap of imagination where the VFX would take an intense role in immersing the viewers into something they never though of.

Best wishes, I believe you must put all of it into your works, and you love what you do. :thumbsup:

Ernest
11-10-2011, 07:28 PM
Not sure where you are going with this, but it would be kind of cool if you could elaborate on this more.

In a shot that was obviously never even sent to the VFX department, because it had absolutely no need for CG elements or composting, the cameraman accidentally shot a little more than he should. I don't see how our VFX friends can be blamed for it.

Afalk
11-11-2011, 12:56 AM
Every sci-fi show on TV has a huge burden in being original. As a fan of many, many years, to see the same, or rather similar stories emerge in long form episodic tv is expected. Terra Nova is no different in that regard. The CG work has been nicely done. The plots are getting better, the acting is starting to smooth out, and the overall storyline has a lot of room to work with. In the end, I am enjoying the show, and a bit more as each week passes. That most definitely works for me.

Red_Oddity
11-11-2011, 05:53 AM
Every sci-fi show on TV has a huge burden in being original. As a fan of many, many years, to see the same, or rather similar stories emerge in long form episodic tv is expected. Terra Nova is no different in that regard. The CG work has been nicely done. The plots are getting better, the acting is starting to smooth out, and the overall storyline has a lot of room to work with. In the end, I am enjoying the show, and a bit more as each week passes. That most definitely works for me.

The problem isn't the regurgitating of existing story lines (it is almost impossible to come up with something original), the problem is everything is so watered down, fish could breath in it.
The actions of the characters are so unbelievable and stupid you'd wonder if you're watching Idiocracy with dinosaurs driven by rejected 7th Heaven scripts.
The inconsistency of the world (one episode outside the gates is pretty much instant death for anyone who sets foot outside, the other episode it's this idyllic Sound of Music country side with no critter in sight, not even a fly.)

Anyway, i can go on and on and on about the utter mediocre writing, but you get the point.

and yes, i'm still watching for some unexplained reason, so i guess that's something

2BitSculptor
11-11-2011, 10:17 AM
I don't like virtual electronic displays and virtual robotic assisted surgery. Granted, it wouldn't be much fun to watch a surgeon flip a tinted lens down over his eyes, to be the only witness, while those on the outside watch him seem to move his hands and instruments in some orchestrated way in front of him; the patient contorted, strapped down in an absolutely immovable state, hidden behind a plastic germ barrier, with only the thin shafts of the robotic arms penetrating his form, bloated from the gas used to separate his internal organs for maneuverability, looking something like some sort of horrific shadow puppet show.

Celshader
11-12-2011, 09:10 AM
I don't like virtual electronic displays and virtual robotic assisted surgery. Granted, it wouldn't be much fun to watch a surgeon flip a tinted lens down over his eyes...

Given good enough cinematography and art direction, that could look fun, too. :)

For those interested, io9 posted a two-minute clip showing VFX highlights from the first two hours of the show:

http://io9.com/5858505/

probiner
11-12-2011, 09:46 AM
http://io9.com/5858505/a-revealing-look-at-the-making-of-terra-novas-amazing-visual-effects.
This is what it was shown in the VFXminds event and it's great. Hoping to see more.

Cheers

jasonwestmas
11-12-2011, 09:53 AM
http://io9.com/5858505/a-revealing-look-at-the-making-of-terra-novas-amazing-visual-effects.
This is what it was shown in the VFXminds event and it's great. Hoping to see more.

Cheers


Nice demo reel.

jeric_synergy
11-13-2011, 12:00 AM
Given good enough cinematography and art direction, that could look fun, too. :)

For those interested, io9 posted a two-minute clip showing VFX highlights from the first two hours of the show:

http://io9.com/5858505/
Jen, I hope you're getting another paycheck --from the PR department, since you're doing their job too on top of animating for the show. :jester:

Iain
11-13-2011, 01:58 PM
I honestly don't know what some of you were expecting here.
A show with a completely bonkers (but fun) premise would not work if it were written with the intellectual weight and precision of Mad Men.

We are enjoying the show but then we watch it as a family and that's the appeal-uncomplicated family hokum.

The VFX are fine for the most part too, in my opinion.

wesleycorgi
11-13-2011, 02:38 PM
Only the state-of-the-art in TV broadcast VFX. :thumbsup: I'm bummed that Cryonic missed out on our nifty Empirosaur.

I'm still giving it a shot (I just hope my wife will stop deleting them before I can watch). My wife loves Sci-Fi and she tells me that she's enjoying the show.