PDA

View Full Version : How can LW be more Tricaster Friendly?



robertoortiz
09-20-2011, 07:44 AM
As some of you might already know, NewTek live streaming solution ,the Tricaster is selling quite well.

The tricaster not only does live streaming, but it can also do Virtual sets, titles and editing.

And yes, like any product it has strengths and weaknesses.

But I was wondering about, and pardon the pun, about Lightwave riding this wave.

So,
What tools would you add to Lightwave to make it more friendly to the Tricaster?

What motion graphic tools would you add to Lightwave to make it more friendly for broadcast graphics.


In a ways that Lightwave V1.0 complemented the Video Toaster.

Looking forward to your comments and ideas.

-R

And guys, please, lets keep the thread positive.

Dexter2999
09-20-2011, 10:17 AM
Reintroduce the 3D Arsenal tools to LW.
Fix the bevel tool.

These two things are perhaps the biggest things I can think of. My logic is that the TriCaster is marketed largely at video users that aren't so much experienced professionals. Even if they are video professionals that doesn't mean they are 3D savvy.

This means they are probably going to have a certain amount of trepidation moving into unfamiliar territory. It doesn't help when something as simple as adding a bevel to the text appears to make your project explode because points crossed.

Even if they don't sell 3D Arsenal as a standalone product, perhaps just the macros as an add on pack? Or package the pack with the TriCaster sales.

What about the viability of a 3D set "store"? Let TriCaster users browse from a site of sets and set pieces such as desks, monitors, truss pieces, and whatnot. Pre made sets would be ready to go. "Build your own" sets would be LW obj's that would need to be loaded, arranged (possibly), and rendered? Not sure never made a virtual set. Or online custom set creation while talking to a service rep. You tell them what you want while looking at samples online (I'm envisioning a Skype interaction) Then once you click "Approved" it gets made and sent to you.

One of the biggest issues I have had in the years of working as a tech is that people assume because I do 3D and editing that I am a camera guy. I'm not. Never claimed to be. And I have to remind them of that when I get put on camera duty once every year or so. "Your a video guy right?"

This issue is true even moreso going the other way. I know for a fact that there are far more camera guys that don't know 3D.

For these people, all I can say is "wizards."

GandB
09-20-2011, 01:44 PM
Haven't messed with the Tricaster, nor looked into it at all (other than the few vids on front page). With that in mind; has NewTek looked at marketing LW objects/scenes as being "ready to drop into TC", much like the 3D Arsenal? In other words, if 3DA is no longer going to be offered; has NT thought about their own store of user-generated content specifically for TC users...right here on the NT site? Has the TC community ever made a list of items they'd like to have available to them for day-to-day work?

Might be something to help LW users profit from the TC's fame, and create a growing library of assets TC users could benefit from. You could even go so far as to have a "live" interface in the TC itself that can log onto an account at NT, check out the TC Asset Store...and pay for (through money, or purchased credits) an asset; then have it downloaded right into the user's TC, ready to use immediately. Just a thought.

Dexter2999
09-20-2011, 02:22 PM
GanB-

Maybe a store that is actually like their own version of TurboSquid? They promote a service directed towards part of their user base with work produced from another part of their userbase. Like I was saying TriCaster users may not be 3D savvy but the LW users might able to fill that gap and make a few bucks, all while Newtek takes a percentage off the top for hosting and handling the transactions.

Store could be comprised of complete sets, components of sets, transitions, animated lower thirds. What else?

Maybe?

GandB
09-20-2011, 02:37 PM
Correct. Though this would be mostly LW/TC-centric. The program to upload purchased products form the Store, right to the TC would have to be created from scratch, I assume. It would also get more 'Wavers and 'Casters to interact with each other.

Of course the artist could feel free to sell additionally in a place like The3DStudio (not a fan of the Squid...but to each his own). They would merely be taking the additional step of making sure that their asset is also certified for use in the TriCaster. NewTek hosting the asset, and ensuring it's "ready to go"...means they would take a cut as well, just like any other Asset Marketplace. I really think this could be good for all involved, and renew some Lightwave usage on a daily basis; especially for the casual artist. Making the transaction and having the asset go right into the TC itself in one easy step should be attractive to Casters as well.

Wavers wouldn't need to make all new assets either; they could start by using their current "for-sale" media, to get things started and build up the Asset Library.

"Wavers and Casters".....almost sounds like some sort of Sport Fishing Channel! lol

Anyways; I'll wait to see what Robert or NT has to say about it, before going in further with the idea.

robertoortiz
09-20-2011, 03:23 PM
The cool thing about this idea is that it is a WIN WIN for everyone involved.
Newtek wins
NT gets another revenue stream that frankly it is NOT THAT HARD to implement. (there are tons of turn key PHP based online asset store solutions out there. For example look here: http://www.shopping-cart-reviews.com/)
Also it would help sell the Tricasters to more markets since there would be a TON of user generated content that could be used with the system.


Tricasters users Win
These users would get a ton digital assets they can play with for their productions.

Lightwave users Win.
Think about it, a store that actually welcomes and needs Lightwave modeling assets. Also it would put Newtek On the map as a player in the virtual set market.

GandB
09-20-2011, 03:26 PM
I think you'd see a pretty big move by Wavers of all walks of life, joining to contribute to the growing library of assets.....just please, please....no "Guild Gimmicks" in this one! ;)

Here's an example of what a company (that I volunteer for) has done: http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=view_product&id=2103

gschrick
09-21-2011, 06:48 AM
I really like using LW to build virtual sets for the TriCaster. But as of yet, I haven't found a 64bit version of the LW Liveset plugin. Does that exist? I keep an old copy of 32bit LW 9.3 around to convert my set scenes for the Tricaster. It's would be nicer to just have 1 64bit LW running.

Updating that plugin would be nice. If it already has been, can someone tell me where to access it.

It seems that if NewTek wants to continue to push TriCaster and it's LiveSet functionality, they should first update the plugin to work with the current version of LW.

SBowie
09-21-2011, 07:12 AM
It seems that if NewTek wants to continue to push TriCaster and it's LiveSet functionality, they should first update the plugin to work with the current version of LW.The plugin is really only useful for the older (ver. 1) LiveSets used by the SD TriCasters - of which there is now just one model left on the market. I'd be very surprised if any more effort went into that plugin. The 32bit version seems to suffice quite nicely.

If you're seriously interested in doing this, you want to look at the TriCaster Virtual Set Editor. Combined with LW and Photoshop, you'd be in a position to create the latest and greatest LiveSets, which are the type the XD models require. (Or apply for the LiveSet SDK program - but it's not for everyone. Among other things, it involves a command line compiler, some basic xml scripting, and a non-trivial license agreement).

rifftrax
09-21-2011, 12:20 PM
I have played around with the TriCaster Virtual Set Editor and I must say it is very disappointing for software that cost $1000. It has very limited features. For a grand I would expect to be able to build complete 3D sets from scratch not just layered flat Photoshop sets. When it comes to modifying 3D sets it is limited to changing out a few graphics, modifying scale of some but not all objects and changing things like hue and saturation of limited elements. TriCaster Virtual Set Editor should cost around $200 based on its feature set.

Is there any plans to re-introduce the Lightwave plug-in for the HD Tricasters? Lightwave it self is only $1500 and it is very powerful and versatile and would allow users to build true custom sets.

SBowie
09-21-2011, 12:56 PM
Lightwave it self is only $1500 and it is very powerful and versatile and would allow users to build true custom sets.I won't quibble that LW is a bargain, and a very powerful (and complex) application.

VSE, by contrast, is pretty much a specialty item, and personally I don't think it's unusual for those to come at carry a premium. Honestly, it was very well received. I think this is the first time I've seen a complaint, apart from little suggestions. The UI is quite simple, but that's deliberate, and arguably deceptive. It's not a 3D app, it's a way to edit supplied virtual set templates, or prepare sets people have created in any 3D app for use in TC.

vncnt
09-21-2011, 01:05 PM
Port LW-link to the Tricaster to build a bridge to LightWave.

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=122015&page=2

GandB
09-25-2011, 09:35 PM
Looks like this thread had a fast death. No interest in NT on improving things?

SBowie
09-26-2011, 08:06 AM
I'm sure I'm not the only staffer reading Roberto's threads with a modicum of interest, but I wouldn't stand around hoping for a 'That's a great idea, we'll jump right on that'. There are quite a long number of reasons for that. None of them is 'disinterest in improvement'.

Implementation of even the simplest of notions that come up is always a good deal more involved than might appear at first glance. This is not to suggest that everything we do undertake is not equally or more involved; hence nothing is ever really out of the question. But in general, threads of this nature don't (and wont') draw official involvement.

robertoortiz
09-26-2011, 10:26 AM
Implementation of even the simplest of notions that come up is always a good deal more involved than might appear at first glance. This is not to suggest that everything we do undertake is not equally or more involved; hence nothing is ever really out of the question. But in general, threads of this nature don't (and wont') draw official involvement.

Having done application development for a LONG time in the past, that position is acceptable to me. The idea of these threads always has been to give an idea to the developers of the "direction of the winds" and what their clients wish.

GandB
09-26-2011, 10:40 AM
No point in continuing in it then. If they don't want to waste their time, I won't waste mine.

SBowie
09-26-2011, 10:54 AM
The idea of these threads always has been to give an idea to the developers of the "direction of the winds" and what their clients wish.Thanks, Roberto. I'm not dismissing their value, just explaining (in a very limited fashion) why you generally won't see company officials or engineers diving in. (Among other things, their doing so can often wind up in time consuming debates.)

As I'm sure you know, engineers are often more interested in 'what you want' than a lot of detail on 'how it should be done'. And you never know what notion may be picked up upon, or for that matter might already be underway. I often read suggestions that are related to things we have discussed previously internally, and perhaps even be working on ... but these won't draw a comment either, again for any number of good reasons. (If engineers spent much of their time chatting in the forums, it might make some happy but we wouldn't see much progress.)

GandB
09-26-2011, 11:25 AM
Yes; but we wouldn't get the feeling that we were talking to ourselves....case in point, the "other" thread. I know companies that interact with the customers/users all the time on their Forum boards...just like NT used to do.

SBowie
09-26-2011, 12:01 PM
Yes; but we wouldn't get the feeling that we were talking to ourselves....case in point, the "other" thread. I know companies that interact with the customers/users all the time on their Forum boards...just like NT used to do.Well, I 'interract' quite a bit ... though much of what I have to say is unofficial and personal opinion (and though it's meant to be helpful). And in general, I do favor 'lively discussion', 'responsiveness' and 'engagement'. But I wasn't speaking generally. I was responding to comments in this specific thread, and in this case I tend to agree with policy.

As to the "other" thread - a wise saying runs along the lines of "If you have nothing to say, be quiet". I can't add anything useful to that discussion so I've followed that advice. I know for a fact that those directly involved were following from the outset - before I piped up and long before Rob dropped in. Seems like they're doing what they're doing and at the pace they think best. And while I know they are working on these things constantly, I guess they don't care to respond to the obvious provocation the thread contains. This isn't a huge surprise. Some tend to ignore people who seem to think that the best way to get someone's attention is to be insulting (sometimes to the point of being quite juvenile). Perhaps that's the reason, I don't know. Although I can certainly see more than one side of the matter, I'm neither going to defend nor criticize. And in any case, this thread is not about that.

GandB
09-26-2011, 12:28 PM
And while I know they are working on these things constantly, I guess they don't care to respond to the obvious provocation the thread contains. This isn't a huge surprise. Some tend to ignore people who seem to think that the best way to get someone's attention is to be insulting (sometimes to the point of being quite juvenile).

As far as that goes; it's pretty much their own fault. They let it get that far; they chose to institute a broken site/forum, with no heads-up whatsoever. They continue to let bad PR rule the day, and it's pretty sad.

Agree with the last line. But; I'll just leave it as-is. NT can find it's own way; where that leads is only partially up to them...they have to have people who will follow. Ignoring those people never leads to a good destination. I won't bother with the "what can we do to help/better/improve, etc" threads anymore. It's pointless to me.

robertoortiz
09-26-2011, 01:29 PM
Guys,
I have know this from day one.
Companies take a risk by saying,
"GREAT IDEA" lets implement it on the next release.

There are thousands on moving part behind the CODE on LW.
Having said that. Developers/ architects of the next generation lightwave can get ideas from these threads.

Libraries/ specifications that they were not aware of.
New perspectives on how to tackle old problems.

For example.
I think that a selling point for the tricaster is to make it have CUDA acceleration natively, that would make Lightwave renders almost realtime.

That way maybe the camera moves in a real time greensccreen set could be referenced in lightwave...in real time.

Is this possible with the limitations of LW and the tricaster?
No Clue, but it is an idea.

SBowie
09-26-2011, 02:52 PM
"GREAT IDEA" lets implement it on the next release.I know a fellow (who shall remain anonymous) whose policy is to say just that whenever someone makes a suggestion that has been around since the Ark (Noah's, not "of the Covenant") and which may even already have been implemented for some time but is as yet unreleased ... makes 'em feel special. ;)