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Lee-AVP
09-08-2011, 10:55 AM
Http://www.avprva.com/live

We have been up about an hour now and our audio has crept to being over a second off.

Streaming profile adjustment, or am I out of luck?

The stream profile is from Tricaster. I only copied over the watershed URL and stream.

Any advice?

bbeanan
09-08-2011, 11:25 AM
I have seen this with Adobe flash streams and it is an issue with Adobe Flash Media Server. The quick way to fix it is to first stop and then restart the stream (if it is fast enough your viewers may not even notice. If that does not fix it then figure out when you can take a break so you can reboot the TriCaster to flush the ram.

Normally I do not see this until I have been streaming for literally like 6 - 8 hours non-stop. What is your bit rate you are streaming at a higher bit rate will fill the ram faster

Lee-AVP
09-08-2011, 03:35 PM
Well, it was a rough morning. I've gotten a few emails getting chewed out for the audio delay.

We were at the lowest bitrate HD preset.. 1024k or something like that?

Restarting the stream...

It might be related, but - virtually every user who connected reported that they got audio, then had to click the little reload button on the Watershed player to get video. This was true every time the stream restarted, and would not have been good to ask of them.

Thinking about it now sitting at my desk..

When I clicked the "record" button on the tricaster, everything froze for about a second and a half. I wonder if this caused the time offset?

bob anderson
09-08-2011, 06:17 PM
The problem is on the encoder end, not the TriCaster. When I have seen this issue, the recorded audio/video is still in sync, as well as if I record the Flash file. The Start/stop trick does fix the problem, and I too have seen this issue only after MUCH longer streams.

Are you running any plug-ins in the Flash Encoder? I did one time see this issue right away when running the orban aac audio encoder in FME.

Bob Anderson

pdxJoe
09-09-2011, 09:46 AM
Running the lowest HD preset and using Watershed?

My experience has been to use only middle of the road presets with Ustream, Justin, and livestream.

I never run an HD stream as my only output for a show. If I run HD, it is only with an external encoder running multiple bit rates into a flash player that will switch between them.

On events with only one stream output, I try to stay under 800k. 360p usually.

You can develop an audio/video sync problem at nearly any part of the workflow. Viewing the tricaster recorded stream file would determine if it was the tricaster or after the tricaster. Then if you recorded on watershed, that would determine if it was between the tricaster and watershed. If not, then it was a delivery issue after it left watershed and was decoded by the remote viewer.

Joe

GeekNews
09-09-2011, 10:09 AM
Ustream/Watershd has been notorious for having slipping audio the longer you stream, it is not the Tricaster. We have quit using Ustream/Watershed as the primary stream they are always now the secondary stream.

We are now using the amazon flash media server service for all of our events and it is economical if you are not streaming 24/7. Two weeks ago we had over 10,000 people on the stream for a gig we did for a client and using Amazon's largest instance it handled it without breaking a sweat.

cuspclub
09-09-2011, 12:32 PM
We are having the exact same problem with the same lowest setting HD stream preset with our xd300 using Livestream's premium service. The lip sync is fine at first but by the time we get to the end of a football game around the 3 hour mark, it's off.

Very frustrating for sure. I'll stay tuned to see if anyone can help.

Lee-AVP
09-09-2011, 05:59 PM
I will admit to not having sufficiently battle tested Watershed before this event.

I believe I did save the stream file, so I will check that out. We recorded on Watershed and saw the same offset. So the Tric stream file should be very revealing, when I get to it next week.

I also know I recorded it with the record button. Have never had a hint of problem with that, but it will be one more data point in the autopsy.

Todd, I might have to hire you to set us up on Amazon. I've read your review and posts about it several times. And while I generally consider myself a computer ninja, I can not seem to make a dent on the Amazon and Wowza documentation.

NachoJimenez
09-10-2011, 05:28 AM
Same thing here.. After 3 hours, the delay starts getting noticeable. After 5 hours, it's nearly two seconds. Streaming H264/MP3 at 800Kbps to Akamai.

I also have the 1/2 second tricaster freeze on record start/end, and also when changing audio profiles. The TCXD850 just gets stuck for a second. I thought it was a memory-paging issue, so I defregmented drives but the difference is not noticeable. We are going to format and reset the TCXD to factory defaults to check if that fixes it.

bbeanan
09-10-2011, 12:37 PM
It is an known Adobe issue not a TriCaster issue.

on your watershed streaming you might want to make sure you have it set to autoplay so when you do restart the stream it just starts playing for the viewers (granted some may still need to refresh) Keep your streams under 800k also helps with watershed

joseburgos
09-11-2011, 03:17 PM
I have noticed that using AAC audio has helped me with audio drift issues.

bbeanan
09-11-2011, 06:04 PM
good point I just started using the AAC and you are right I never did see it slip... I just figured it was because I was only streaming 6 hours at most in one session

joseburgos
09-11-2011, 06:22 PM
I did a lot of testing and MP3 slips after some time constantly but AAC does not. In my test, AAC has not slipped even after three hours after 15 steam test. MP3 slipped on all 8 two hour test I did which is why I did three hour X 15 for AAC to make sure it was not a fluke. This is all via Wowza Media server2 EC2.

Lee-AVP
09-12-2011, 08:33 AM
I did a lot of testing and MP3 slips after some time constantly but AAC does not. In my test, AAC has not slipped even after three hours after 15 steam test. MP3 slipped on all 8 two hour test I did which is why I did three hour X 15 for AAC to make sure it was not a fluke. This is all via Wowza Media server2 EC2.

This is good info. I will have to buy the AAC codec and try it out.

And, again, get on Cloudfront!

Lee-AVP
09-14-2011, 12:07 PM
Okay, for those playing along at home:

The stream file does contain the audio offset. So this seems to confirm that the problem is FME. I suppose the Tric could be feeding FME out of sync, but the Tricaster recorded file is spot on.

So: FME problem. This does not necessarily mean Watershed won't slip over time, too, but in this case, it hit the internet with the offset already there.

So now the question is: I happened to also archive my entire show setup and testing the day before. 3 hours with no offset as I got around to testing audio levels at the end of the day.

The following day, though, we were way off (over a second) within an hour of starting our broadcast.

Has anyone narrowed down anything that will repeatedly cause the problem? Is there any kind of update or change that can be made to FME to fix it?

HD streaming is an advertised feature. If the problem had been "on the internet," I wouldn't worry about it too much. But when it comes out of the Tricaster incorrectly, that to me is a product failure.

JamminXD850
10-24-2011, 03:06 PM
Are you running any plug-ins in the Flash Encoder? I did one time see this issue right away when running the orban aac audio encoder in FME.

Bob Anderson



I thought my sync problems might be solved with the solution of going to AAC with a plugin for FME... are some better than others or are you cautioning to stay away completely?

Jammin

studioemily
03-05-2012, 01:07 PM
Where do I get the AAC plugin for FME?

pro---studio
03-05-2012, 01:10 PM
Mainconcept

http://www.mainconcept.com/en/products/apps-plug-ins/plug-ins-for-adobe/aac-encoder-fmle.html

Regards

pro.

SBowie
03-05-2012, 01:36 PM
Or install TriCaster Rev. 4.x ....

studioemily
03-05-2012, 02:21 PM
So once I install it. is that it? Or do I need to activate it somehow in FMLE?

SBowie
03-05-2012, 02:27 PM
I'm no expert, but I think if the profile selected requires it, it should just work.