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Builtdown
09-07-2011, 09:42 AM
Hi,

Iīm new to rigging. I need to do some rigging for a project that contains a mechanical/hydraulic arm.

I followed this tutorial and it worked very well :
http://www.flexomizer.com/post/Rigging-Hydraulic-Pistons-in-Lightwave.aspx

My arm turned out to be a little more complex so I hit a wall.
See attachment:
The purple part is a parent. The blue, pink and orange parts are connected to it at their origins. The light blue and the yellow part are connected to the pink part at their origins.
The problem is that I donīt know how to connect the yellow and the orange part. I think my main worry is that the yellow part should have two origins...?
Can someone point me to a right direction?
Thanks!

-built

RebelHill
09-07-2011, 10:28 AM
Yeah... its a fiddly one.

The problem is the connection of the yellow and light pink parts, as their motions are dependent on one another... there's no easy way to solve it really using the standard IK/targets/constraints.

Most immediate, sure fire track to doing this off the top of my head, is simply to solve the quadrangle... The pivot points at the base of light pink part, the bucket main joint, and the bucket/yellow bracket joint will... if you use the bucket itself (therefore the bucket main joint) rotation as the manual keyed channel, you can take the 2 known lengths, and the one known angle between and use them to figure out the other angles of the quad formed by the 4 pivot points, and send those values into the approriate rotation channels of those parts.

Other than that, if a lil tinkering reveals a ready tool that helps with something like this, Ill let u know.

Builtdown
09-07-2011, 10:46 AM
Thanks,

I didnīt think it would be a difficult thing.

I read your tip but unfortunately didnīt understand it at all :

"Most immediate, sure fire track to doing this off the top of my head, is simply to solve the quadrangle... The pivot points at the base of light pink part, the bucket main joint, and the bucket/yellow bracket joint will... if you use the bucket itself (therefore the bucket main joint) rotation as the manual keyed channel, you can take the 2 known lengths, and the one known angle between and use them to figure out the other angles of the quad formed by the 4 pivot points, and send those values into the approriate rotation channels of those parts."

Does anyone else have an easy explanation of how this should be done?

RebelHill
09-07-2011, 11:00 AM
Nope... spoke too soon.

Easily done using IK and targeting... just requires use of keep goal in reach (usually bad so easy to forget)... and one and a half IK chains.

Use either of the red coloured items to operate. Enjoy.

bac9i4mo
09-07-2011, 12:22 PM
Nice one, RH ;p

Builtdown
09-07-2011, 12:58 PM
Thanks RebelHill!

Iīm however still strugling. I sent you an email. Please check it out.




- b

RebelHill
09-07-2011, 01:09 PM
wtf am I doing... proof yet again that the simplest most obvious solution does no occur right away... must be all the drugs.

Anyway, this is simpler... just operate the bucket (orange) on pitch. As for how it works, orange has a tip bone..., pink and yellow are just an IK chain, goaling to to oranges tip bone... blue pistons are the children of the respected piece they're anchored at and targeted to each other.

Builtdown
09-07-2011, 01:58 PM
Thanks, your latest rig looks very good.

Although I have tried to duplicate the rig on my model but I canīt get the Bracket goal and Bucket goal to stay connected.

Frustrating....

zapper1998
09-07-2011, 02:20 PM
Like This Setup.. ??


98020



I just dont have the bucket
oppssy
Will load the one with the bucket


Mike

RebelHill
09-07-2011, 03:13 PM
bucket and bucket goal bones dont require any settings on them... just pink and yellow, which are the 2 bones of the IK chain, both set to use IK... the tip bone, bracket gaol, is set to reach for the goal, with bucket goal as the goal item.

Thats it.

zapper1998
09-07-2011, 04:48 PM
Ok here is my setup

98022

Michael

Builtdown
09-08-2011, 12:33 PM
Thanks for all the help, but still I canīt get it to work.

I have tried to duplicate the RebelHillīs latest rig but with no luck. The bracket goal and the bucket goal are still not connected.

Someone willing to check my file and see whatīs the problem?



- builtdowm

zapper1998
09-08-2011, 12:35 PM
Thanks for all the help, but still I canīt get it to work.

I have tried to duplicate the RebelHillīs latest rig but with no luck. The bracket goal and the bucket goal are still not connected.

Someone willing to check my file and see whatīs the problem?



- builtdowm

ok
me lookee at it... :)

zapper1998
09-08-2011, 01:09 PM
Here ya go its my Boom Setup
There are a few things..
Hard to explain ..
But if u tear it apart you will figure it out


98039

The Null.. Boom_1_Control Moves the whole boom on the Bank axes
The Null.. 20042011_Boom_1:Boom1 controls the other arm Bank axes
The Null..02042011_bucket:Bucket controls the Bank axes of the bucket
All 3 nulls have there Bank Limits set so u will see the Blue round dodad..

98040

Hope this helps
A few people helped me out so I am passing this on.. :)

:)
Michael

jeric_synergy
09-08-2011, 01:44 PM
Thanks, your latest rig looks very good.

Although I have tried to duplicate the rig on my model but I canīt get the Bracket goal and Bucket goal to stay connected.

Frustrating....
You probably need to make a little checklist to get all the pertinent details:


1) Parenting
2) "goaling"
3) targeting.

As an exercise, it's educational to do a screen grab and LABEL all the parts so you can see their interrelationships: it's very tough to see all three relationships at the same time via the interface itself.

Like "P2, child of {xxx}, targeting P1, no IK". (Which IIRC I think is true, doing this from memory)

One frustration for me is: other programs make it a LOT easier to discern parenting via their "Scene Editor". IMO LW rather sucks in this department: as soon as the separation between parent and child exceeds several lines it's hard to tell what's what.

Builtdown
09-08-2011, 02:14 PM
Thanks for all the help and tips.
Zapper, nice rig!

Still no luck with my rig.
Rebelhill sent a rig made of bones. It works just like it should.
I make my own with objects (see my latest attachment) and rig it identically to Rebelhills.
Mine doesnīt work. What can be the problem?

I would love if someone could check my file and see why it doesnīt work.

jeric_synergy
09-08-2011, 03:52 PM
1) Could you add some verbiage to the parts' names so we know which bit is supposed to be the 'handle'?

2) AFAICS, 'hydraulic test bracket' is not set to use the 'bracket goal' as a goal, in the file I dl'd from above. In fact, one of the goals had another goal as its goal. That can't be right.

3) 'hydraulic test arm2' didn't have IK turned on.

Do it again, more slowly. To my list above:

1) Parenting
2) "goaling"
3) targeting.

add: 4) IK settings

zapper1998
09-08-2011, 05:41 PM
The easiest way is to model all the parts separately..

Each part as a separate object..

"Nulls are your friend" ...

And most important is the "Pivot Point" of each object...

Then you can apply the bones to each separate object....

:)

That Bone rig from previous post by: Mr. RebelHill ...
Was cool never thought of doing that way..
Way cool...

Michael

jeric_synergy
09-08-2011, 06:58 PM
The easiest way is to model all the parts separately..

Each part as a separate object..
Layout treats Modeler Layers as separate objects anyway, and each layer can have its own pivot assigned in Modeler.

Builtdown
09-09-2011, 04:30 AM
Thanks guys!

I compared rebelhills file to my own once more, and as Jeric said I had not set IK pitch controller for couple of arms.
Now it is working like a charm.

Thank you so much!

zapper1998
09-09-2011, 02:05 PM
ok what happened to the images i uploaded?????

nightrider
10-21-2011, 11:02 AM
thx for this info this whas what Iīm searching after and I have learn lott off this info now :) and now I hope I can finnish my object I only have the animation to my band left hope some one can help me out to that.
My tree is here

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=123099