PDA

View Full Version : Edge Bevel Probs etc



daz1761
08-25-2011, 12:40 PM
Hi

I did include this problem at the end of another thread but thought its probably best starting a new thread...

I havn't modeled a great deal since having LW10 but when i do i seem to always have geometry problems when using tools such as the edge bevel and bevel etc

I am always careful and make sure i dont have points laying on top of each other and use functions like "hide selected" to see if there are any other polys hiding that are causing problems and using the statistics window. I also delete points that cause problems and try and make a new poly and get an interesting black poly which you cannot do anything with and I never recall getting such a poly in LW9.6

Anyway my latest problem which stemmed from my other thread is trying to use an edge bevel on a simple circular wheel top and bottom with NO subdivisions. straight away i noticed the top half of the wheel only selecting half of the circle when i tried "selecting loop". When i eventually sellected the object I got some polys breaking up and going crazy....

This isn't a major prob this time with this object but i really want to try and be a perfectionist when starting a model and would like some advice on what to do to avoid these geometry problems if possible...

I have attached a picture to try and explain my current bevel problem

Many thanks

nickdigital
08-25-2011, 01:07 PM
The native Edge Bevel has issues. Try this one instead.
http://lightwave.mindnever.org/wedgebevel/

daz1761
08-25-2011, 01:25 PM
The native Edge Bevel has issues. Try this one instead.
http://lightwave.mindnever.org/wedgebevel/

That looks great

How do you install it?

Thanks

nickdigital
08-25-2011, 01:30 PM
Do a "Save Link as". You should be downloading a .ls file. That's a lscript file for LightWave. Then add that to Modeler via the Add Plug-Ins button.

daz1761
08-25-2011, 01:36 PM
Do a "Save Link as". You should be downloading a .ls file. That's a lscript file for LightWave. Then add that to Modeler via the Add Plug-Ins button.

Excellent, just figured it out and right clicked instead of left clicked

Great, i will have a go now!

You wouldn't know by any chance why the Select Loop only selects half of my circle and why I get black poly's when highlighting points and pressing the P key?

Many thanks

nickdigital
08-25-2011, 02:01 PM
You wouldn't know by any chance why the Select Loop only selects half of my circle and why I get black poly's when highlighting points and pressing the P key?



Maybe you're selecting a loop that doesn't actually go all the way around? If you do a Merge Points do points get merged?

As for getting a black poly you're probably generating a non-planar poly. That's a polygon that has trouble drawing because there are so many points and the polygon face is having trouble drawing. It's also possible you have points sitting on top of points...so when you make your poly you have points that are sharing the same point in space. You can either Triple that polygon or use the Add Edges tool to make more logical cuts in your polygon.

cagey5
08-25-2011, 02:01 PM
[EDIT] too slow. What he said ..

daz1761
08-25-2011, 02:13 PM
You can either Triple that polygon or use the Add Edges tool to make more logical cuts in your polygon.

Thanks

I have found the "Triple" under the "Subdivide" menu but struggling to find the "Add Edges" Tool

Also, I have tried selecting all points around a circular object and tried the new WEdgeBevel and I get an error.....

Line 435, invalid argument 3 typr to vmag()

nickdigital
08-25-2011, 02:18 PM
If you go to Edit Menu and do a search for Add Edges it'll show you where it's located.

I just used it on a basic disc and it worked ok.

Can you post a version of your object with the images removed?

daz1761
08-25-2011, 02:29 PM
If you go to Edit Menu and do a search for Add Edges it'll show you where it's located.

I just used it on a basic disc and it worked ok.

Can you post a version of your object with the images removed?

I certainly can, i will package it up while we speak

Funny enough, ive just tried it on a simple box and it works, but doesnt on anything made by the primitive "disc" with 40 points

Will it be because im am using LW10 (mac)

nickdigital
08-25-2011, 03:08 PM
Your model has some cleanup issues.

This is what I did to clean it up.
Merge Points
In the Polygon Statistics panel select all the 1 Vertex and 2 Vertices polygons and delete them.
wedgebevel now works fine on your loops.

daz1761
08-25-2011, 03:27 PM
Your model has some cleanup issues.

This is what I did to clean it up.
Merge Points
In the Polygon Statistics panel select all the 1 Vertex and 2 Vertices polygons and delete them.
wedgebevel now works fine on your loops.


Excellent, thanks a lot much appreciated...

I thought as much to the way it was behaving, so them three steps above is something i should implement with every model then?

So regarding the statistics window, do I hit the "+" sign on the 1 and 2 vertices and hit "FN + Delete" sorry if i confuse, using a macbook pro

I will have a look at my version now and perform the same steps :)

Many thanks!

nickdigital
08-25-2011, 03:36 PM
I thought as much to the way it was behaving, so them three steps above is something i should implement with every model then?


I would say no. A careful modeler would probably not run into these little errors. My guess is maybe you copied the geometry onto itself by accident or ran a tool by accident. It might be a result of your boolean cuts too. But you can use those steps to check your model. But bear in mind that if you should only merge points on areas that you want. So for example, if you purposely cut parts of a model, say a beveled edge. You would be merging that back.


So regarding the statistics window, do I hit the "+" sign on the 1 and 2 vertices and hit "FN + Delete"

Yes, the "+" will select, the "-" will deselect. I'm not sure what the keystroke on a Mac is, I'm on a PC. You could also try doing up to Edit>Delete.

daz1761
08-25-2011, 04:03 PM
[QUOTE=nickdigital;1177013 It might be a result of your boolean cuts too. But you can use those steps to check your model. But bear in mind that if you should only merge points on areas that you want. So for example, if you purposely cut parts of a model, say a beveled edge. You would be merging that back.[/QUOTE]

Thanks again

So a Boolean could upset the geometry even though the cut looks perfectly? Ah, so you mean if I perform a Boolean Subtract with a cylindrical tube as i did on my wheel and say I wanted to do an edge bevel or wedgebevel, select all the points on the edge of the cut and merge points if the geometry plays up?

This was really my concern as I want to be "careful" and really want to learn what to look out for when performing tasks but I suppose it takes years to perfect these things as there is so much you can do to the geometry...

But what you have explained in this thread has helped a lot so far ;) another day gone and another important lesson learned :)

nickdigital
08-25-2011, 04:13 PM
Well I'm not 100% for sure saying it was the boolean operation. Where I found problems was around the rim of your film reel...not where you cut the holes out. So without watching your process it's hard to know where things got weird.

Even I've made the mistakes I saw in your model, so it happens. I've copied an object on top of itself a bunch of times. When you do a merge just pay attention to how many points LW reports were merged. If the number is more than you expected then something is probably goofed.

"Unify Polygons" is a good tool to know too. If you have two polys sitting on top of each other and you do a merge, you'll have two polygons sharing the same points. Unifying them will reduce it down to 1.

daz1761
08-25-2011, 04:30 PM
Well I'm not 100% for sure saying it was the boolean operation. Where I found problems was around the rim of your film reel...not where you cut the holes out. So without watching your process it's hard to know where things got weird.

Even I've made the mistakes I saw in your model, so it happens. I've copied an object on top of itself a bunch of times. When you do a merge just pay attention to how many points LW reports were merged. If the number is more than you expected then something is probably goofed.

"Unify Polygons" is a good tool to know too. If you have two polys sitting on top of each other and you do a merge, you'll have two polygons sharing the same points. Unifying them will reduce it down to 1.

Thanks again, things are becoming more clear now regarding strange outcomes, ah right, unify polygons sounds very useful. So if u did have 2 polygons right on top of each other,would u select the one visible then select unify polygons? Sorry for sounding clueless,it's just I've never come across that tool before. Is that under the construct tab?

nickdigital
08-25-2011, 04:36 PM
Thanks again, things are becoming more clear now regarding strange outcomes, ah right, unify polygons sounds very useful. So if u did have 2 polygons right on top of each other,would u select the one visible then select unify polygons? Sorry for sounding clueless,it's just I've never come across that tool before. Is that under the construct tab?

No I'd do a merge points first and then run Unify Polygons. I think if you just had one polygon selected it would actually try to run that tool on your selection. Since you only have one polygon selected the tool wouldn't do anything.

You could also try selecting one of the polygons that you know is a duplicate and then do a select connected operation. That would select everything else that is connected to your selection. Obviously that won't select any pieces that aren't selected. So for example if you had a jet model that you accidentally copied on top of itself and did that on the fuselage, you wouldn't be selecting the landing gear. (Assuming you modeled it in pieces).

I guess the moral of the story is...just pay attention to what you're doing. :D

daz1761
08-25-2011, 04:49 PM
I guess the moral of the story is...just pay attention to what you're doing. :D

Absolutely :D thanks again for your time