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jitterbug
08-13-2011, 12:57 AM
I`m new to 3D, was looking at other software and saw some animted of hair dynamics and hardbody dynamics, is there a sample page of lightwave dynamics, I know lightwave has won a lot of TV emmy awards, but is that for lighting rendering animation, or is it known to be used for particle dynamics and hard body dynamics in TV as well?

is there a full feature list of what is in lightwave? I can only find the lightwave 10 brochure which doesnt tell me much.

Dodgy
08-13-2011, 03:05 AM
LW has pretty much all you need in a 3d package except splashing liquids. You can do hard, soft, particle and cloth dynamics, hair, boned animation, morphing, spaceships, cars and other vehicles, creatures, fireballs, blobby particles , realistic all the way through to cartoony rendering. Basically most things you can think of. If you're new to 3d, you might want to try Blender which is completely free, (I'm not a big fan of the interface, but it is free), or try any of the demos from the big 3d companies and see what you find easiest to get into. LW is the cheapest of the main 3d packages though, and it does a lot. I like it, I've used all the major packages, and there are more powerful packages out there, but they're a lot more expensive.

prometheus
08-13-2011, 06:33 AM
I`m new to 3D, was looking at other software and saw some animted of hair dynamics and hardbody dynamics, is there a sample page of lightwave dynamics, I know lightwave has won a lot of TV emmy awards, but is that for lighting rendering animation, or is it known to be used for particle dynamics and hard body dynamics in TV as well?

is there a full feature list of what is in lightwave? I can only find the lightwave 10 brochure which doesnt tell me much.

ahh..there you go..I mentioned this in another thread, the lacking of video feature page going deeper in to some main item functions.

Well particle and explosions is used a lot it seems with Lightwave in tv-series
such as battlestar galactica, stargate..inside body close ups for CSI gunshots etc.

it can do hard body dynamics quite well in the right hands, but depending on complexity it might not be able to compete with houdini & maya for block busting epic scenes when dealing with massive destructions etc.

There are some main issues for hard body dynamics when breaking stuff..no native break and destroy tool, and a true self interacting pieces
wonīt work.

for breakin up stuff..
You have the crackit plugin wich doesīt seem to work properly in lw 10 and you have mg breakup..both free plugins, but due to LW10 update course, they might not function properly.

I hope Ibounce... a plugin being developed for lightwave..or bullit comes to lightwave 10 very soon...bullit was promised for core, but now I donīt know what the status is for getting it in to lightwave as soon as possible.

I know to litte about hair dynamics to say much, but I donīt think lightwave is your first choice for hair dynamics, but thatīs all depening on what you need....soft image seems to be awesome for hair dynamics..
fibre fx and hair dynamics is under constant development in lightwave thou
and some improvements has been done in the latest updates.

Michael
http://vimeo.com/user680656/videos

jitterbug
08-15-2011, 05:03 AM
thanks guys, it certainly looks great from what i`ve read from the newtek user interviews, I`m also looking at cinema 4D which has a yearly rental license, it also is easy to use with a good particle system and hair, nice figure animation auto rigs plus other animals, but lightwave has a strong tv/film history so i`ll definitely learn it,

and I see a few people have managed to make their own short films in it with small teams, at the end of the day, that kind of output says something. not sure if messiahs needed, i`ll tell with time.

prometheus
08-15-2011, 05:09 AM
thanks guys, it certainly looks great from what i`ve read from the newtek user interviews, I`m also looking at cinema 4D which has a yearly rental license, it also is easy to use with a good particle system and hair, nice figure animation auto rigs plus other animals, but lightwave has a strong tv/film history so i`ll definitely learn it,

and I see a few people have managed to make their own short films in it with small teams, at the end of the day, that kind of output says something. not sure if messiahs needed, i`ll tell with time.

Render speed and quality is great, and the UI interface-workspace is very easy to navigate and set up, camera and lights etc...and setting up particle systems is quite easy with hvīs and getting it done fast.

working with volumetrics and sprites in the big houdini is a little tougher for me to get going on the fly, so I prefer to work with lightwave with that..however if you want more advanced control and such things as metaballs on volumetrics..houdini would be the choice.

Michael

jitterbug
08-15-2011, 06:05 AM
Thanks !

although I might leave houdini for now, just want something all encompassing that works well, I guess I asked about hair because I saw some really nice cinema4D hair on youtube, I guess its all in the modelling, lighting and render settings, not a biggy anyway.

good lighting, cameras, particles, cameras and simple character animation tools, face morphs, is what I want. but yes the bullit hard body dynamics is something i`m keen on if it isnt already here,

urr is that real time VPR finally working in LW 10? do you need the latest graphics card?

prometheus
08-15-2011, 06:16 AM
Thanks !

although I might leave houdini for now, just want something all encompassing that works well, I guess I asked about hair because I saw some really nice cinema4D hair on youtube, I guess its all in the modelling, lighting and render settings, not a biggy anyway.

good lighting, cameras, particles, cameras and simple character animation tools, face morphs, is what I want. but yes the bullit hard body dynamics is something i`m keen on if it isnt already here,

urr is that real time VPR finally working in LW 10? do you need the latest graphics card?

What showcase do you refer to regarding your question"is that real time vpr" ?

VPR isnīt real time even if itīs refered to that,(open gl is realtime) thereīs always an progressive iteration process of milliseconds and more to better refinements, but yes VPR works in LW 10
and It works quite well for some stuff, radiosity can be slow thou.

Hypervoxels, turbulence fluids volumetrics,fog, skytracer,ozone, volumetric lights, fibre fx, clip maps.

All those things works in vpr..with different quality perhaps, I miss
lensflares and glow and blooming thou, wich is post processing.

Bullit was promised for core, but should now be implemented for lightwave 10 or another cycle, I donīt know when yet.
Ibounce is another plugin to keep an eye for.

I believe the cinema hair tools are a step ahead of fibre fx, but newtek seem to bee improving fibre fx for each update, the latest with dynamics and vpr improvements, the big thingy they need to adress is the general modeling and styling tools in either modeler or layout.
And itīs build in Lightwave...where cinema hair is a module I believe?

And by the way, VPR use the cpu not the graphics care...so make sure to ge a good processor with as many cores as possible.

Michael

jitterbug
08-15-2011, 06:44 AM
ok CPU for VPR not graphics card, good to know, I think I got confused when someone mentioned CUDA Nvidea cards, quad core should be enough well for starters.

ok a few milliseconds is great, just to get an idea even of whats happening with the lighting is a bonus. :thumbsup:

not sure the difference between module and a build, for hair,

I read on newtek that lightwave created the virtual forest environments in Avatar, then they were taken into motion builder open GL? is this correct? meaning motionbuilder was used for the animation and done in an open GL environment? (im not getting MB just asking),,

prometheus
08-15-2011, 06:52 AM
ok CPU for VPR not graphics card, good to know, I think I got confused when someone mentioned CUDA Nvidea cards, quad core should be enough well for starters.

ok a few milliseconds is great, just to get an idea even of whats happening with the lighting is a bonus. :thumbsup:

not sure the difference between module and a build, for hair,

I read on newtek that lightwave created the virtual forest environments in Avatar, then they were taken into motion builder open GL? is this correct? meaning motionbuilder was used for the animation and done in an open GL environment? (im not getting MB just asking),,

milliseconds is on simple scenes, the more you put in there in terms of advanced ligthing, such as radiosity, and certain shaders,materials etc..it will be slower, and sometimes it takes minutes to refine, I might be able to post some demo sample clip of the vpr in action of some of my scenes over at vimeo later on.

But Im impressed of the vpr handling hypervoxels, and turbulence fluid smoke and fire plugin.

not sure to what extent lightwave was used for virtual forests and what finally made it to the screen, probably a huge mix...ask Rob Powers about that:)

Avatar featured the use of Vue for some landscape and tree vistas of djungles and some floating Ilands and also some backdrop skies I believe.

Avatar also featured speed tree for some dynamic interaction and some special trees where they needed to control everything down to each branch.

Fprime is by far easier and faster to work with radiosity and setting up lights and surfaces, but it misses a lot of shaders and volumetric stuff, but
thatīs a commercial plugin.

Michael

jitterbug
08-15-2011, 07:32 AM
you know I wouldnt use radioisty a lot of the time, I`m actually very interested in cartoon type renders, with anime style glows and lighting, although I dont do anime I like the lighter colour schemes, like spirited away, can lightwave do that type of thing? I see CIN4D has strong cartoon rendering,

what are the top recommended plugins for ligthwave?

the Fprime looks like the rendering window in Modo, looks good. But if it doesnt render shaders probably not worth getting, aren``t shaders the way you texture or paint a surface?

prometheus
08-15-2011, 08:02 AM
you know I wouldnt use radioisty a lot of the time, I`m actually very interested in cartoon type renders, with anime style glows and lighting, although I dont do anime I like the lighter colour schemes, like spirited away, can lightwave do that type of thing? I see CIN4D has strong cartoon rendering,

what are the top recommended plugins for ligthwave?

the Fprime looks like the rendering window in Modo, looks good. But if it doesnt render shaders probably not worth getting, aren``t shaders the way you texture or paint a surface?

I believe you can do some nice cartoony style renders, I donīt use that myself, but there are render options for that sketch look and shaders,
Theres the sketch processing filter for the whole scene, and a super cel shader in the surface shading tab, and I believe thereīs some free plugins and commercial plugins too for that.

check this intro over here..
http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/tutorials.php

or direct...
ftp://ftp.newtek.com/products/LightWave/Trial/Content/Sketch_Blueline.zip

You also have loads of video training from the excellent Proton william vaughan
http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/24hours_training.php

right klick and download the mov files rather than playing directly.

Fprime misses some of the shaders, but those are the ones that add
special shader looks to something, it renders most stuff otherwise..textures,bumps and standard surfaces etc.
It canīt deal with imported vertex normals and doesnīt render that correctly thou, unless using a truart obj importer.

Top plugins..Itīs all about what you want and need..

lw-cad for great modeling tools and arch viz stuff.
turbulence- fire and smoke plugin..

Fprime..

but there are tons of useful ones...check the forum for top plugins or something.


Michael

jitterbug
08-16-2011, 02:02 AM
Thanks Mike,

very helpful! :thumbsup:

can I ask how is F Prime different to the VPR renderer now that its available?
from what I watched on the VPR viewport it looks like what is happening in Fprime?

prometheus
08-16-2011, 02:35 AM
Thanks Mike,

very helpful! :thumbsup:

can I ask how is F Prime different to the VPR renderer now that its available?
from what I watched on the VPR viewport it looks like what is happening in Fprime?

Fprime seems to handle radiosity much better..

the newly introduced color space seems to be an issue thou with fprime..

Fprime can pick surfaces within the fprime preview renderer, just click on any part in the image of your render even if you paus the renderer, and it will select that surface in the surface panel, that is ideal for working with surfaces..you canīt do that in VPR.

You can also pause your preview renderer in fprime and start refining from that point whenever you choose to.
In VPR you donīt have that option, and also VPR sometimes or all the time refresh from scratch if you just would do something in the background.

Fprime also has a rip of viewport and you can scale the viewport or zoom and pan inside the viewport with the mouse wheel without having to use a camera or perspective view, that is really cool.
And you can have around 4 viewport simultanously to view different views or different settings.

Thatīs the goodies for the fprime previewer, now then thereīs the fprime final renderer, it letīs you create iterative renders so you can render out a low draft animation image sequence..and if your pleased you can start refining them more after the initial draft..that is awesome.
This due to fprime saving a datastorage to gather all the information in order to start refining again.
canīt be done in VPR.

That said..fprime doesnīt handle hypervoxels as good as VPR, nor does fprime work with volumetric lights nor turbulence volumetric fluids..and it misses some shaders.
fprime can not render imported geometry from solidworks that carries vertex normal maps, lightwaveīs native render does that..If you use the perspective cam..but that is ignored by fprime.

If you buy the tru art obj plugin you should be able to get that working within fprime i believe.

VPR is under constant development thou, and it might be that we get some fprime features in there.

Ohh.I might add..VPR has the ability to make preview from wich ever viewport you choose, wich isnīt working quite the same way in fprime, youīd have to save out image sequences.
heres a sample from a preview draft low quality from VPR directly..wich lets you play the animation directly inside of lightwave.
http://vimeo.com/27734204

Michael

jitterbug
08-16-2011, 04:45 AM
aaah ok i`m seeing the differences, great explanation thanks Mike. :) ta for the sample link,

I saw a great processing plugin for after effects called normality,
for cartoon style shading, at www.3dcg.net, but you`d import your normal maps or geometry from lightwave first, normal passes, i`m not sure as obviously I havent learnt 3D yet just starting.