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skywalker113
07-13-2011, 04:22 PM
I am building a spacebattle and I am stumped on how to do explosions.

The method I want to do is composite most of the explosions with footage of explosions in AE. Sounds simple. Although its not that easy when your focused on one ship zipping by other ships doing quick turns and maneuvers. The issue of motion tracking comes up.

I tried making white doted versions of the ships attempting to track them with AE. So far its not working so well. Its the closest i've gotten though.

Here is an example of a test battle I did. (no compositing)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SU7oT7qxlo

Here is an example of the explosions/quality I would like to have.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwF67bhdXfk

Compositing the explosions seems like the way to go. I can barley work with hundreds of emitters in the scene shooting particles everywhere.

Thanks

nickdigital
07-13-2011, 04:37 PM
You could map the explosion sequence to polys and place those in Layout.

prometheus
07-13-2011, 09:45 PM
You could place and parent some nulls around the areas where you need the explosions, add hypervoxels sprite clips on those, of course you could and should render out an explosion sequence with either a emitter exploding or a null expanding in a roilingway, or use a mix perhaps..and then add that to the sprite clip.

If you want to follow pretty close how they worked on such scenes you might want to buy SeanM Jacksonīs explosive series, one of the guy responsible for the explosive stuff of battlestar galactica.

Mind you, I believe he is working a lot with many emitters, but you can deactivate and activate by choice and render in seperate passes so you donīt overload the scene...besides that..timing and getting particles explode out properly and add some trails etc..use a lot of sprites where you can etc..glow and blooming, and if you have real explosive clips you can map that on to nulls or particles too. comping them in place might be trickier.

Michael
http://vimeo.com/user680656/videos/page:2/sort:newest

prometheus
07-15-2011, 01:31 PM
Hereīs some suggestions..however the first isnīt the best exactly for syncing with missiles..unless you add those later and target to the explosions...might be better to set those up first and use collision events or trigger explosions by keyframe.

a vpr test
http://vimeo.com/26483041

1. the fast method...in your spaceships object properties, add a dynamic emitter and
set a low life age, set a few particles to match exactly how many explosions you want on the ship
, give a random life age to them aswell, no create another emitter (child emitter) and set nozzle to
parent emitter end, they should come to life when the first emitter dies out, set a pretty big
vibration on them, the larger the ship is the more amount of vibration you need.
. the child emitter is the one that should have hv sprites on them.

2. plan yor explosions with adding nulls around the ship where you want them.
you could create a null first and add dynamic emitters to your liking and clone that
null emitter around where you want the explosions to be, if you set your
emitter nozzle to keyframe..then you can choose when and where you want the explosion
to start.

3. add nulls *** collision events and missile trail carriers, add particle emitters on the ship hull
set to spawn on collision events.

those are some techniques that might work for you, I am not a specialist in this type of syncing
explosions and to exactly match missile hits etc..so I really donīt know exactly how the Big guys do it.

I do not know either if that type of multi explosions and syncing of missile hits are covered with sean scotts videos at kurv studios
or within Katīs videos at liberty3d.com

Havenīt seen either of them except for some example parts from youtube.

Michael

shrox
07-15-2011, 02:42 PM
Prometheus' new avatar reminds me of an exploding Lion-O from Thundercats.

http://mimg.ugo.com/201006/49652/lion-o2.jpg

prometheus
07-15-2011, 02:47 PM
Prometheus' new avatar reminds me of an exploding Lion-O from Thundercats.

http://mimg.ugo.com/201006/49652/lion-o2.jpg

Lol ..I have yet to see that in action, any youtube clip of that?

I will do a better avatar later, I was just bored not having one..the avatar Is a simple daz figure, appropiate called Michael..and some displaced geometry and hv sprites on to that.
Im starting to loose that hair too..not sure if Itīs the fire??

Michael

shrox
07-15-2011, 03:47 PM
Thundecats:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=thundercats&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

prometheus
07-15-2011, 07:50 PM
These are very good explosion tutorials, though they are NOT free:

http://www.kurvstudios.com/explosions-particles-smoke-and-fire-volume-i.html

There's also vol 2 & vol 3.

Yes..those are know...Iīm curious about those thou, a few explosions or some single big explosion shown is one thing, I wonder if multi explosions and triggering or setup of that and missile hits are covered in those tutorials, as to what I can see It does not, but Im not sure?..thatīs in my opinion where the big magic lies with the amount of explosions and syncing timing of it all., like a nice fire work composition wich requires
rythm and boom:)

Michael

shrox
07-15-2011, 10:53 PM
Mapping the image seq onto a hemisphere rather than a plane can add a bit a depth too.

Markc
07-16-2011, 04:26 AM
Yes..those are know...Iīm curious about those thou, a few explosions or some single big explosion shown is one thing, I wonder if multi explosions and triggering or setup of that and missile hits are covered in those tutorials, as to what I can see It does not, but Im not sure?..thatīs in my opinion where the big magic lies with the amount of explosions and syncing timing of it all., like a nice fire work composition wich requires
rythm and boom:)

Michael

The Kurv videos by Sean Jackson are very good :thumbsup:
They don't cover multiple explosions, it is one main explosion with debris, fire trails etc. There is no missile interaction (it is purely the explosion).

prometheus
07-18-2011, 01:28 PM
The Kurv videos by Sean Jackson are very good :thumbsup:
They don't cover multiple explosions, it is one main explosion with debris, fire trails etc. There is no missile interaction (it is purely the explosion).

Well..thatīs a pity, I think I can deal with the first part and probably do a good job, but to deal with a massive compose of multi explosions with syncing and missiles within a huge scene...that could be a topic for an upcoming video..as mentioned getting that to look right is where I think the beauty of it is.

I think I can handle doing the explosions, debris fire trails etc..so that is not whatīs needed for me, just more a workflow insight of conducting such a battle for example.

Thanks for the info Markc..of it not covering multiple explosions, that really makes it less interesting for me unfortunatly.
Michael
http://vimeo.com/user680656

Mr Rid
07-25-2011, 12:32 AM
I would definitely avoid HVs if possible. As mentioned, map stock pyro onto cards or shapes, and arrange them in the scene with interactive lights & flares. You might also render isolated HV explosions then map the renders on cards/geom in the scene (saves a lot of render time). May embellish with chunks of geometry debris.

Been a long time, but I used to make an exploding debris clump by first keyframing a single piece flying off (2 keyframes), then back in 'rotate path' days it was easy to clone & rotate path maybe a dozen times. Replace some of the pieces with a few differently shaped geometry chunks. Parent all to a null at center. Then use load-from-scene each time you need a debris clump, and position with the null. Select all pieces in a clump and offset frames in the graph editor.

Some old LW5.6 examples- all the pyro is mapped geometry except for the black smoke trails (good ole Steamer)- 96925 There were about 30 pyro cards used in the first two shots. Some of the spark bursts are animated point clouds instead of messing with particles.

prometheus
07-25-2011, 04:11 AM
Some old LW5.6 examples- all the pyro is mapped geometry except for the black smoke trails (good ole Steamer)- 96925 There were about 30 pyro cards used in the first two shots. Some of the spark bursts are animated point clouds instead of messing with particles.

those are looking darn good, except for the plane at the end hitting the ground, the fire geometry is lacking dynamics as you would and could get with particles and sprites etc...and the big smoke hit would be so much better with some particle emitters and trailing particles shooting up in the air, And we all know you can handle those if you have the time for it, but you made your point clear anyway with mapped geometry and Itīs great anyway for lw 5.6.

Personally I havenīt tried mapping geometry that much, maybe I should..I just donīt like what I see when testing that technique.

Michael
http://vimeo.com/user680656/videos

Mr Rid
07-25-2011, 06:14 PM
I always recommend the simpler approach first. In production, always use live elements when practical over trying to prove something with CG. LW particles and HVs are rudimentary by the standard and they take much time to learn, setup and render. Judging from the examples, cards could work fine if you have decent stock or CG pyro maps. But its definitely better to map cards rather than tracking in comp.

Here's an interesting example from LXG http://www.box.net/shared/static/0yvkmfvv0yfqnrxq0r36.mov (30mb) where we had been provided with various static pyro plates. No one had really thought thru how it was all going to work and the compositors found it impossible to track the fire onto the animated zeppelins. So we wound up sticky-front-projection mapping the fire onto geometry shapes in the scene. As far as I know, no one had ever done anything quite like this, and the VES nominated the sequence for best compositing.

Keeping with always trying real stuff first, the live FX people had originally shot a test of a miniature zeppelin crashing and exploding but it didnt quite look convincing. When the topic of CG fire came up the supe said, 'oh that never looks real.' Thats all I need someone to say to have me up all night trying to prove them wrong. In case we needed to embellish the plates, I did a promising test but needed more time to develop. I was kinda hoping the compositing approach wouldnt work.

Heres another shot from a 2004 game ad where all the smoke, dust hits, muzzle flashes, and explosion are mapped geometry-96937 saving a lot of time over wrestling with PFX/HVs.

shrox
07-25-2011, 07:47 PM
I always recommend the simpler approach first...

Listen to the Master.

prometheus
07-25-2011, 08:45 PM
Now thatīs more like it..the zeppelin fire was awesome.

fully understandable why It was awarded (nominated).

Michael

prometheus
07-26-2011, 12:11 PM
I started a Workshop for explosions, and we are starting with a simple
emitter and trail plume particle scene...but not the full works..read more here.
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1168074#post1168074

Michael

erikals
07-26-2011, 12:37 PM
some footage would make it more convincing... :l
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112472

prometheus
07-26-2011, 12:38 PM
some footage would make it more convincing... :l
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112472

footage of what?
Backdrop or fire plates?

Sure that might be...but this is a starting workshop dealing with sprites and perhaps further along with hv volume mode, and who knows even turbulence fluids...Mr rid is invited in
for the fire plates when we reach those topics.:)
Michael

erikals
07-26-2011, 12:49 PM
um, did you reply to the wrong topic, instead of this one?
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1168074#post1168074

anyway, footage needs no further explanation... so ain't gonna post more on that... :]
 

prometheus
07-26-2011, 01:05 PM
um, did you reply to the wrong topic, instead of this one?
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1168074#post1168074

anyway, footage needs no further explanation... so ain't gonna post more on that... :]
 

Ehmm..donīt quite get it..to me it seems that you replied to my last post in this thread..wich I posted just to make everyone aware of that workshop.

so I just donīt understand you here..why should I have replied to a wrong topic.?

Oh..well..one Norwegian and one swede...how screwed up can it be, I havenīt been drinking thou erikals, just started to work after my vacation, and no I didnt get any this time..but I got the vacation..if you
know what I mean:)

Michael

erikals
07-26-2011, 01:29 PM
ah, hehe, think we crossed some posts there... LoL.... oh well...

at least u r lucky, haven't had a vacation in ages,... :] and now i need to sleep soon, bah, work sucks, sometimes... \꞉P

go to clubs, meet drunk chicks, always works, and the result is...
hm, never mind the result... just start to drink in the morning again... :]

skywalker113
08-21-2011, 10:31 PM
Hello

Here is a clip of the spaceship battle scene im working on. The explosions were done in Lightwave. What do you think?

watch in HD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5a-5WXCwjs

Here is an animation of another shot im doing with the battleship guns firing. I was thinking of compositing Blenders smoke for the cannon blast. Or maybe some stock footage. I can only find small muzzle flares for machine guns. I need a big battleship blast though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjXoFatTAD0

thanks

prometheus
08-21-2011, 10:59 PM
Good work here...Itīs shaping up nicely..

Im not fond of the actual space craft style thou, but thatīs another thing, and they could be lit differently.

vue environment is always cool and battle taking place amongst the clouds.

Now for the actual explosions..they look quite good now, but I would probably tone down the thickness or add more dissolve to the end, thatīs the tricky part, they might seem to pick upp thickness to much and you see that classic round puffs a little, wich I think you could avoid if there was a lower thickness...but then again render time would be higher, unless using dissolve instead.

can you get away with sprites? most of the stuff in galactica is sprites and some volmetrics.

You might wanīt to render out the explosions in passes and postprocess and blur them a little perhaps, to smooth them out.

Michael

http://vimeo.com/user680656/videos