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Mr Rid
07-10-2011, 04:07 PM
Some interesting innovations- http://cgawards.3dworldmag.com/?trid=718030690

Mr Rid
07-10-2011, 04:10 PM
Am particularly curious about Daz 'tri-ax' weight maps for extreme joint deforms, at :55 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTBBnc2SJ90 combined with a rig that auto-fits extreme morph deforms.

"... Adding in the ability to paint a separate map for each axis of rotation..."

safetyman
07-11-2011, 05:19 AM
Daz|Studio just gets better and better. Poser hasn't changed much in years, and D|S seems to be passing it by.

geo_n
07-11-2011, 06:08 AM
Oh wow. I never thought DAZ would be the one to make my feature request at HC forum a reality. An auto adjusting joint system like what I saw at Spore game long ago.
Auto morph generation, auto fit plugin! Cool! Wonder if all these can work with non DAZ models.

OnlineRender
07-11-2011, 06:48 AM
who WON the copy of LW 10 ?

prometheus
07-11-2011, 06:55 AM
Looks awesome.

I got to work with daz a little more.

quidam was looking promising, but I felt it lacking of good models, and In the demoversions you couldnīt export out and test a rig within lightwave.

Michael

prometheus
07-11-2011, 07:03 AM
Ahh..what a teaser...version 4 isnīt released yet, at least not to what I can see on the support pages.

Michael

safetyman
07-11-2011, 10:42 AM
The free version is (http://download.cnet.com/DAZ-Studio/3000-6677_4-10717523.html?tag=mncol;1) but I'm not sure how many of those features are in the free version. I also noticed that if you have a Daz account (free to sign up) you can also get it free until the 31st (regularly $49.95).

OnlineRender
07-11-2011, 10:45 AM
The free version is (http://download.cnet.com/DAZ-Studio/3000-6677_4-10717523.html?tag=mncol;1) but I'm not sure how many of those features are in the free version. I also noticed that if you have a Daz account (free to sign up) you can also get it free until the 31st (regularly $49.95).

or buy 3D world for Ģ5 they usually have a software give away . thats how I got poser , bryce and daz

prometheus
07-11-2011, 11:01 AM
The free version is (http://download.cnet.com/DAZ-Studio/3000-6677_4-10717523.html?tag=mncol;1) but I'm not sure how many of those features are in the free version. I also noticed that if you have a Daz account (free to sign up) you can also get it free until the 31st (regularly $49.95).

Thanks safetyman, Im gonna check how it works compare to the 3.
1 version.

I didnīt notice any offering of version 4 or any download link from my daz account thou.

Michael

cresshead
07-11-2011, 11:56 AM
Some interesting innovations- http://cgawards.3dworldmag.com/?trid=718030690

no mention of lightwave 10.

best update is probably either blender 2.5 or zbrush 4.0

Mr Rid
07-11-2011, 02:06 PM
Daz 4 is currently free. No x64 yet (there is a v3 x64). I just started figuring out where they moved all the buttons around to. They keep coming up with delightful interface idiotproofing, but I wish they would focus more on integration with production tools. There's a newly added MDD export that is not working for me.

Mr Rid
07-11-2011, 02:09 PM
no mention of lightwave 10.



It looks like every app except LW is mentioned. NT isnt greasing enough palms. :)

prometheus
07-11-2011, 04:02 PM
Daz 4 is currently free. No x64 yet (there is a v3 x64). I just started figuring out where they moved all the buttons around to. They keep coming up with delightful interface idiotproofing, but I wish they would focus more on integration with production tools. There's a newly added MDD export that is not working for me.

I havenīt had any luck with exporting from daz with the bones intact, how the heck do you export out that Mr Rid?
collada getīs screwed up everytime I try it and through obj format I canīt see any option, fbx perhaps, but thatīs not available in the free version.

I will test daz 4 tomorrow ..late night here now.

Michael

Mr Rid
07-11-2011, 04:38 PM
I havenīt had any luck with exporting from daz with the bones intact, how the heck do you export out that Mr Rid?
collada getīs screwed up everytime I try it and through obj format I canīt see any option, fbx perhaps, but thatīs not available in the free version.

I will test daz 4 tomorrow ..late night here now.

Michael

Collada is useless, and BVH is a big mess to correct. Was looking forward to FBX finally working right, but yeah it is missing from DS4.

FBX export from DS3 was working somewhat, but the meshes lacked UVs. I could export a separate obj with UVs but it had no weights. So months ago, I was trying different modeler plugs in attempt to get UVs and weights copied onto one mesh but there was always a glitch. There was also an 'FBX_obj' export option for DS3 that seemed like the ticket, but it only errored during export. But this is all why I wish they would focus on integration with apps that are more practical for production.


But here are the steps for Daz3 export that I jotted down:

-Export obj from Daz- enable 'write materials' and 'collect maps', or else surfaces wont work.

- Load the OBJ into Deep Exploration, then export for LW, in order to avoid multi-image instances loading in LW (not necessary, but otherwise the texture maps load dozens of times over for some odd reason, wasting ram and creating much confusion when editing textures). Or manually correct each surface in LW, so only one instance of an image is used for multiple surfaces

-name this mesh something with the word 'UV' to keep it distinct from the 'weight' version exported from FBX.

----------------
UVs-
Daz3 exports UVs named after the model name.
DE exports a new UV name also.

So must change the name of each UV in Modeler
-----------

Export FBX version from Daz3:

Load FBX into LW
- enter scale factor "1"
-load the obj export version to use as a visual guide
-line up items to obj, and re-rest bones.

-disable bones

-sav xform on all parts, and items.

-Open all 'save xformed' objects into Modeler and collapse in one layer

- name this mesh with the word "weight" to keep it distinct from the 'UV' version.

- To get weights and UVs on one mesh, use mn_DrainBGweight plugin here- http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=77944&d=1254525433 only works with x32.

-In x32 Modeler- copy 'Weight' version, and place in BG layer of 'UV' version... Apply mn_DrainBGweight plug, use '150mm.'

prometheus
07-11-2011, 05:00 PM
Collada is useless, and BVH is a big mess to correct. Was looking forward to FBX finally working right, but yeah it is missing from DS4.

FBX export from DS3 was working somewhat, but the meshes lacked UVs. I could export a separate obj with UVs but it had no weights. So months ago, I was trying different modeler plugs in attempt to get UVs and weights copied onto one mesh but there was always a glitch. There was also an 'FBX_obj' export option for DS3 that seemed like the ticket, but it only errored during export. But this is all why I wish they would focus on integration with apps that are more practical for production.


But here are the steps for Daz3 export that I jotted down:

-Export obj from Daz- enable 'write materials' and 'collect maps', or else surfaces wont work.

- Load the OBJ into Deep Exploration, then export for LW, in order to avoid multi-image instances loading in LW (not necessary, but otherwise the texture maps load dozens of times over for some odd reason).

-name this mesh something with the word 'UV' to keep it distinct from the 'weight' version.

----------------
UVs-
Daz3 exports UVs named after the model name.
DE exports a new UV name also.

So must change the name of each UV in Modeler
-----------

Export FBX "weight" version from Daz3:

Load FBX into LW
- enter scale factor "1"
-load the obj export version to use as a visual guide
-line up items to obj, and re-rest bones.

-disable bones

-sav xform on all parts, and items.

-Open all 'save xformed' objects into Modeler and collapse in one layer

- name this mesh with the word "weight" to keep it distinct from the 'UV' version.

- To get weights and UVs on one mesh- In x32 Modeler- copy 'Weight' version, and place in BG layer of 'UV' version... Apply mn_DrainBGweight plug, use '150mm.'


Yeah I know about collect maps and write materials and to use deep exploration to avoid multiloading of maps, however I canīt find any export option for fbx weight as you mention?? Thatīs in the free daz 3.1 version.

a little of topic question since your more used to Daz than I am, is there a way to adjust the pose symmetrical at the same time as in poser?
Canīt understand why the symmetry is so hidden either.

Michael

prometheus
07-11-2011, 05:33 PM
Well regarding collada, Itīs not totally useless, but the Lightwave collada import is.
other rendering options would in that case be vue for example.

Daz collada to vue 8-9 works decently, apart from that when the object is
imported it get automaticly a 100% reflective surface wich you need to edit all materials at once and set to 0%

Then the textures should look fine, and it actually looks better than imported through obj to lightwave, at least some details such the eyes and transperancy it seems.

The bones are intact and in proper place, and are also editable within vue.
It should work to also export out the collada with the animation intact from daz I believe, havenīt tested properly yet.

Collada export from lightwave to vue seem to function to some degree, I tried some flapping wings wich were having a repeating graph curve and that seemed to work too...have to explore that some more thou.

Michael

Mr Rid
07-11-2011, 05:37 PM
...I canīt find any export option for fbx weight as you mention??


I was referring to regular FBX export. To have an option for FBX export from Daz, I think you have to have the separate FBX plug (I dont consider anywhere near worth $99), or have Daz3 advanced.

Symmetry should be under the Paramaters tab, click on the arrow at top right- select Symmetry from drop down, and then the menu should be self explanatory. Although their idea of 'right to left' seems backward to me. It applies after you pose, not during.

prometheus
07-11-2011, 05:39 PM
To have an option for FBX export from Daz, I think you have to purchase the separate FBX plug (I dont consider anywhere near worth $99), or have Daz3 advanced.

Symmetry should be under the Paramaters tab, click on the arrow at top right- select Symmetry from drop down, and then the menu should be self explanatory. Although the their idea of 'right to left' seems backward to me. It applies after you pose, not during.

Yeah thatīs what I thought, eighter the fbx plug or daz advanced.

Yeah I know how to find the symmetry and use that, but I thought it might have a hidden zynced symmetry wich act on both sides at the same time as in poser, but obviously not.

Michael

Mr Rid
07-11-2011, 05:51 PM
... I thought it might have a hidden zynced symmetry wich act on both sides at the same time as in poser, but obviously not.

Michael

Not sure in Daz4. They changed things around a lot.

prometheus
07-11-2011, 06:29 PM
not lightwave topic, but daz to vue topic..

Regarding getting daz animation in to vue, you would need to have either the full animate not animate lite, in order to bake by selecting the animation and bake to studiokeys, or use the daz studio advanced and the export to collada wich vue should read fine.

Michael

safetyman
07-11-2011, 06:35 PM
http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=155669

Apparently, they (Daz) are aware that the FBX export is hosed and are saying that they will fix it as soon as they can.

Mr Rid
07-11-2011, 11:02 PM
...
Regarding getting daz animation in to vue, you would need to have either the full animate not animate lite, in order to bake by selecting the animation and bake to studiokeys, or use the daz studio advanced and the export to collada wich vue should read fine.

Michael

Btw, I tried to use the Poser Format Export plug that is suppose to convert Daz animations to Poser, but all I ever got was a frozen pose.

I keep wondering if any conversion tool actually works. Integration is the biggest mess in CG.

bazsa73
07-12-2011, 05:23 AM
Integration is the biggest mess in CG.

Totally agree, it's a babel situation when it comes to communication between different 3D apps. At least meshes can be exchanged more or less smoothly. Well, almost.

prometheus
07-12-2011, 07:46 AM
Btw, I tried to use the Poser Format Export plug that is suppose to convert Daz animations to Poser, but all I ever got was a frozen pose.

I keep wondering if any conversion tool actually works. Integration is the biggest mess in CG.

Absolutly..amen to that, integration with other apps is a Big Mess"

I wonder how newtek reasoned with the collada format, maybe they should have made a "comprehensive list" of exactly wich apps would benifit from the lightwave collada import export format.

For frozen geometry I found the obj format to be working best with I want to test, converting solidworks data through deep exploration to lightwave, normal vertex map smoothing has been a big issue, but I have overcome that by using the perspective camera wich is the only way tor render vertex smoothing angle correctly from cad data.

I guess Ivé seen some newsletter now from newtek wich mentioned that there will be more focus on fbx than collada, that might be good, but why the heck isnīt there a collaboration with newtek and daz for example to sort out the issues with collada, I think I saw an article of newtek having an extensive collaboration with daz that takes character animation to a new level in Lightwave..perhaps that was mimic?

daz Collada to vue seem to work decently as I mentioned. ..and also Lightwave collada to vue.

To Newteks defense I guess, this interchange file format mess seem to exist all over the place.

Michael

Mr Rid
07-12-2011, 05:35 PM
I have never seen any conversion tool work right, ever.

When I export a Michael4 FBX from Daz3, and load it into LW 9.6 Layout or Modeler, there are weights, but no UVs.

When I import the same FBX into LW 10 Layout, I only get "unknown scene file format." Sooo, how do you import FBX into LW10?

When I import the same FBX into LW 10 Modeler, a UV finally shows up :), but then the weight maps are missing. :bangwall:

prometheus
07-12-2011, 06:22 PM
I have never seen any conversion tool work right, ever.

When I export a Michael4 FBX from Daz3, and load it into LW 9.6 Layout or Modeler, there are weights, but no UVs.

When I import the same FBX into LW 10 Layout, I only get "unknown scene file format." Sooo, how do you import FBX into LW10?

When I import the same FBX into LW 10 Modeler, a UV finally shows up :), but then the weight maps are missing. :bangwall:

I thought they worked very hard with the FBX interchange format this time around with LW 10?

Maybe they need to work harder..And while their at it..why not discuss with e-on or track down why daz can export itīs collada fully working with bones properly to vue.


Maybe they are seeing this thread or should there be another more proper directed thread for it, I thought thereīs been a lot of howling about that earlier thou.

Or should one contact them personally by mail or what?

think of how easy it would be to use daz figures once the just import right with bones and collada, change animate it, send it over to vue if you need it to fly in clouds or be surrounded by beatiful landscapes, or why not ecosystem populate it.

Possibilites not discovered simply because they havent done the job right with collada:(

Michael

Mr Rid
07-12-2011, 06:49 PM
When I look how fun the new Genesis figure deforms are in Daz4, its just frustrating that its stuck inside an app where no professional would want to animate or render. If only I could wholesale move the mesh, morphs and rig into LW, and go.

Daz is great for quickly whipping up previz characters & props (that ever impress clients with their detail), and sometimes even for finals. Since LW10 is geared for previz, seems like they need to be communicating smoothly.

Every artist I ever work with has personal projects they struggle to pull off (or conceive of pulling off) in a practical way for one or two artists to complete. They want to spend time 'directing' their story, instead of being hung up on technical tasks. Anything that saves time on modeling, rigging, lip-synching, dynamics or performance is of great interest. The most useful and accessible tools are inevitably spread out over several apps, then getting them into a smooth pipeline (pro or personal) is ever the tech hurdle. Greenlaw has spent about eight months now trying to get that damn iPi Studio capture thing working.

Usually these things work about 75% right off the bat, and you think "cool!" Then the remaining 25% winds up taking up 90% of your time to wring the devil out of the conversion details.

Greenlaw
07-13-2011, 07:34 PM
Greenlaw has spent about eight months now trying to get that damn iPi Studio capture thing working.
Yeah. Sigh! It was a painful R&D process and the situation was exactly what you described: our project got totally hung up on just one technical problem: getting the mocap data out of iPi and onto a rigged LW character. Part of the problem was my nearly complete lack of knowledge in this area--after all, 'home brew mocap' is still largely uncharted territory. But along the way I also ran into several IO issues that had to be addressed by Newtek and, to their credit, they fixed the ones that that completely stalled our project.

Happily, with LW 10.1, our iPi DMC-to-Lightwave workflow actually works now and it's a reasonably efficient system. Even better, I've been happy with the results; the quality of the mocap is much better than what I originally expected from an 'entry level' setup. I'll try to post a video capture from a Lightwave 10 scene tonight that features the three characters from 'Brudders'. (Don't expect to see finished shots yet; we're saving it for the upcoming teaser.)

So was the pain worth it? I think so--but ask me again in a couple of months after we finish the short. ;)

G.