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rcallicotte
07-04-2011, 06:10 PM
Simple Question - Which is the better pose for a human (male or female) to facilitate the best rigging for an animated character? T-Pose or Relaxed Pose?

OFF
07-04-2011, 11:32 PM
If for work with MotionBuilder or something like this it is better the T-pose. If you want to work with only Lightwave workflow - choose a pose at own discretion.

LW_Will
07-04-2011, 11:43 PM
T Pose

Castius
07-05-2011, 02:51 AM
Simple answer both.
T-pose is better for more advanced methods. Otherwise your IK may pop or flip.
relaxed pose if you need quicker results. With less detailed work. Because you will be closer to the final result.

For example:
If a limb is strait. I set a keyframe on a negative frame. That bends the knee in the direction needed. Then make sure IK is set to first keyframe.
Also the greater the range of motion or detail is needed. I'd plan on figuring out corrective morphs. For the important deformation.

Good luck

rcallicotte
07-05-2011, 05:44 AM
Thank you all for such overall thorough answers. I'll be using Lightwave or maybe Messiah Studio to build the rig.

Greenlaw
07-05-2011, 08:15 AM
This is just my personal opinion but it depends on what your intended use and rigging will be. In general pre-bending into a relaxed pose will help IK behave more predictably.

This is probably more true for manually keyframed animations but it is somewhat true even if you use Motion Builder and mocap data. However, if you use MB you do need to make sure your joints are rotated to zero when they are aligned in a perfect T otherwise you may run into offset problems. This means it's okay to 'bend' the rig into a relaxed pose before exporting your FBX, just dont' go overboard. An interesting example of a 'pre-bent' pose for MB can be seen in this demo video I posted yesterday:

Motion Capture for Sergeant (http://bit.ly/SgtMocap)

I should point out that the pre-bending was mainly in the legs and tail. Most of the rest of the rig was a perfect T. BTW, to make things behave more predictably in Maya and MB, I used Save Transform on the mesh after bending the rig into a 'relaxed' pose, replaced the mesh with the Transformed version and re-rested my bones.

Rebel Hill has an excellent free tutorial about FBX (http://rebelhill.net/html/lwandfbx.html) and pre-bending in on his website.

Hope this helps.

G.

rcallicotte
07-05-2011, 09:44 AM
Greenlaw, yes it helps further what I'm understanding. I believe the best option at this point is to use a relaxed T-Pose with hands at the side about at a 45 degree angle.

Greenlaw
07-05-2011, 11:26 AM
Yes, but as I said, it depends on how you intend to animate. It sounds you're planning to keyframe 100% so that should work well. If you intend to do a hybrid mocap-keyframe thing like I am, you probably don't want to pre-bend nearly that far; just far enough to give IK a hint about the preferred rotation is all you need.

G.

Castius
07-05-2011, 12:42 PM
Just remember there are ways to pre-bend without changing the mesh in LW. I'm sure Messiah does as well.

So pre-bending is generally more for making deformation easier to hit more likely poses.

rcallicotte
07-05-2011, 12:51 PM
@Greenlaw and @Castius - Aha. Sound advice. Thank you.

Greenlaw
07-05-2011, 02:08 PM
Just remember there are ways to pre-bend without changing the mesh in LW. I'm sure Messiah does as well.

So pre-bending is generally more for making deformation easier to hit more likely poses.
Oh, certainly. The reason I was doing Save Transformed before exporting was so I could unbind and rebind in other programs easily if I needed to. If I didn't have to do that, this step would be unnecessary.

G.

rcallicotte
07-06-2011, 05:04 AM
What is Save Transformed?



Oh, certainly. The reason I was doing Save Transformed before exporting was so I could unbind and rebind in other programs easily if I needed to. If I didn't have to do that, this step would be unnecessary.

G.

RebelHill
07-06-2011, 05:56 AM
Each really only serves to make certain aspects easier.

Tpose is great because it sets all limbs and parts out aligned to the world, which when rigging makes for nice straight setups so its much easier to get the parts of your rig correctly located and aligned with the actual mesh and so on.

More relaxed poses allow for a certain degree of prebend to be modeled in the mesh so as things are set between the 2 extremes of pose (as in fully bent/unbent) at base, which can sometimes make deformations easier to handle and get good shaping of. It is however much easieer to wind up with your control items slightly off axis compared to the mesh part they're controling, which can be a big problem.

In truth, each has their own good and bad points.

Greenlaw
07-07-2011, 12:49 PM
What is Save Transformed?

Under Save Objects in Layout you'll find a very useful command called Save Transformed Object. This saves out a 'deformed' version of your mesh, which has way too many uses to bother going into here. In the above situation, I'm using it to save out a version of mesh that has the 'bends' created by the slightly posed rig, and then I'm replacing the current mesh with it, and re-resting the joints. This actually has no visible effect in Layout but it makes a big difference if I need to unbind the rig in Maya to make some changes. Just to be clear, I save every version of the mesh in case I need to go back to an earlier scene or setup.

G.

Greenlaw
07-07-2011, 12:54 PM
This actually has no visible effect in Layout...
Well, that's not completely accurate. If you need to un-rest your bones or joints after 'posing' the rig at frame zero, you'll see the same problem in Layout. You normally wouldn't do that without a good reason though. :)

Talc
07-17-2011, 01:50 PM
I've found the question to be controlling mesh deformation through the use of poly flow and weight maps. IK gets tricky if there isn't a clean line through one axis. It can snap and twist in unpredictable ways. Extreme deformation is also effected by subdivision order and amount.