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View Full Version : Interactive 3D (web,and astandalone application) What do you use?



Noclar7
10-08-2003, 08:32 AM
Hello all,

We have another prospect for a realtime 3D environment project and I'm wondering what other developers using Lightwave are using for exporters, players, and dev kits.

Currently I am using the shockwave3D plug and director for programming but I think most of you who have used this in production know its a pain in the ***** to work with. Specifically directors handeling of 3D in particular. Its kind of disturbing when you build the same poject 3 different times and get 3 different results:mad: and dont even talk about making sure its compatable with the majority of users systems.

So with that rant out of the way, whats is the Lightwave Community using with success?

Lightwolf
10-08-2003, 09:03 AM
I've used SW3D, but not in conjunction with LW.
I wrote a real-time web traffic analyzer in 3D, that never went beyond the prototype stage.
Cheers,
Mike

Noclar7
10-08-2003, 11:08 AM
This has to be one of the best examples of shockwave 3D I've seen yet

http://www.lego.com/eng/play/games/backlot/prompt.asp

tottebias
10-08-2003, 03:00 PM
Have been using director for that kind of stuff for quite a while. Haven't experienced any trouble with director itself, it's actually quite capable if you know what you're doing. The problem is that LW's shockwave exporter sorta sucks.

Noclar7
10-08-2003, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by tottebias
Have been using director for that kind of stuff for quite a while. Haven't experienced any trouble with director itself, it's actually quite capable if you know what you're doing. The problem is that LW's shockwave exporter sorta sucks.

You think you could share your favorite resources/links for working with directors 3D engine and possibly working with LW and Director :)
Have any links of content youve created with it?

Yeah Lw's exporter does blow.. I would be peachy if they actually updated it for 8. It seems Max users still have the majority of tools/support for interactive content.

Cheers,
RJ

tottebias
10-08-2003, 03:41 PM
Some nice links:

http://x.i-dat.org/~am/mainpage.php

http://www.parasme.com/newmedia/directors.php

http://www.mcli.dist.maricopa.edu/director/

http://www.director-online.com/

Here's an early version of the last game I worked on for christmas last year:

http://www.imp-studios.com/shockwave/santa.dcr

Drop the presents in the chimney in the direction of the red arrow. You aim with ctrl and drop with shift I think. Then you have like 3 boosts on Enter.

Have lots more but not online.

Noclar7
10-08-2003, 04:00 PM
Excellent Links, I've been to the last two but the first couple are fresh goodies :)

The santa game is nice too, I like the "rocket mode" and Aiming fuction. very cool. So.. I've got a bit of reading to do now on that path of trying to be a artist/progger.

RJ,

riki
10-08-2003, 08:25 PM
Swift 3d not listed??

Noclar7
10-09-2003, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by riki
Swift 3d not listed??


Swift 3d 4 LW is a great plugin but it does not allow you to create interactive content like the rest of the solutions. Mainly, it does not export content for real-time animation and interaction. There are tricks and workarounds to simulate a real-time enviroment with swift 3D, but its still a prerender animation.

meshmaster
10-09-2003, 07:50 AM
to list Multimedia Builder, Flash, and some others that do semi-3d...

Noclar7
10-09-2003, 08:41 AM
Maybe I should be more specific and state that this post/poll is about "Real-time 3D applications. Web or Standalone".
Meaning, applications that allow you to manipulate/interact/navigate 3d objects and environments in real-time in a published format, delivered to either web browsers or standalone applications.

or:
Desktop Virtual Reality

---
Cheers,
RJ

Mathias Stolley
10-09-2003, 02:06 PM
do you know Quest3D ?
http://www.quest3d.com/

on this site they mention the d-storm plugin to export from Lightwave to Quest3D
http://www.quest3d.com/index.php?id=102

I think it is a fast engine and you can make a complete interactive programm with it.

Export as an exe or an installer if it is to great and you can make a screensaver from your scene.

If you have the great version (about 2000,-$) you can make a multiuser solution complete with databank acces and (light) physiks.

There is a demo version to try it out.
I do not work for them but find the program realy interesting.

regards
Mathias

hope you understand my english :o)

Noclar7
10-09-2003, 03:48 PM
I have looked into quest3D before and wasnt too impressed with there Online club demo.. But they have enhanced there product quite a bit since then. That truck demo is really cool. The only downfall of that app is requirement, Direct X 8.1 and a 3D accelerated video card. That kind of restriction cuts out a large audience. oh.. and by the way, your english is fine:D

WizCraker
10-09-2003, 04:24 PM
Anark (http://www.anark.com) is what I've used, you don't have it listed and it is a major competitor for Macromedia.

Noclar7
10-09-2003, 07:10 PM
I knew I was going to miss one!. I keep getting Axel and Anark mixed up. How is Anark for working with lightwave? Do they have a exporter and is it solid?

RJ,

MentalFish
10-10-2003, 02:44 AM
What about Blender? :) It is really good for being freeware. It has a built in realtime engine with spherical rigid bodies. Quite primitive in that way, but atleast it is something. They are planning to include ODE (Open Dynamics Engine) into it too. Its a physics engine similar to Havok.

I am using both Shockwave3D and Blender for realtime 3D, but eventually it will be Blender only when I get more into it.

You are also free to program your own scripts in Python. The 3D plugin is also very small and easy to install "Do you want to install? Yes. Finished" :) And it works on both win and mac and under dev for Linux (mozilla)

You can make binaries (.exe) of your game/realtime3d for Windows, Mac, Linux, FreeBSD+++ with the one source you have programmed.

Blender 3D Web Demos (http://www.blender3d.org/About/?sub=Gallery3dwebplugin)

Blender Game Sources (http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11857)

Download Blender 2.25 and Publisher Key File for making games (http://www.blender3d.org/Download/?sub=Blender)

With inport/export of UV mapped OBJ files you could work with a LightWave / Blender combo.

WizCraker
10-10-2003, 04:21 AM
Originally posted by Noclar7
I knew I was going to miss one!. I keep getting Axel and Anark mixed up. How is Anark for working with lightwave? Do they have a exporter and is it solid?

RJ,

Yes its pretty solid, first version was a little flaky but now it works perfect and Anark is unique. I wouldn't say it a competitor to flash but more of Macromedia Director as it is focused on the CD-ROM and presintation/Kiosk developers. The program has advanced since it's first release it is more like a compositing or editing package as you have to bring in elements rather than create them in side the package, just in case nobody has heard of Anark before.

mdoyle
10-13-2003, 04:30 AM
I have been using shockwave 3d for a while now with lightwave and have had no problems. I have made racing games as well as 3rd/1st person interactives like the lego one which is being/will be used for education in colleges and stuff as an elearning tool. I must admit though the max exporter is better (as I cringe in saying so) and I just know they won't be improving it, which is a tad annoying. We do alot of web 3d things and are thinking about moving over to anark but not really used it yet and was wondering how it is in comparison,

Gui Lo
10-13-2003, 07:21 PM
Hi Noclar7
I use Kaons Activate!.

It is very good for simple interactive stuff and being Java based it does not recquire any player. The rendering is superb and but slow on heavy objects.

I have to use the 3DS exporter in LW but this works very well and once the peculiarities are worked out it is very predictable and stable.

As an aside, I am constantly amazed/frustrated that VRML is not supported natively in browsers. Even basic 3d should be intermingled with 2d work by now.

Gui Lo

Noclar7
10-13-2003, 09:10 PM
hey all,

Thanks for all the replies and recommendations. I've come to the conclusion this weekend that I am going to stick with Shockwave 3D. Between the Turkey and Family Reunions I read threw the 3D lingo reference manual and had a real eye opener as to what can be done with shockwave 3D.
From my first post I was saying that the exported data was rough to work with, well.. I think what my problem was is that I was relying too much on preset triggers and behaviors. Most of the problems can be avioded by writing your own clean lingo code without all the addition fuctions added by the preset behaviors. And the system requirements easily be accomidated by having shockwave check for different rendering resources and modifying/turning on/off different rendering properties.

One thing I am going to pursue though is the possibility of creating some LScript to aid/correct the exporting in lightwave. I can only hope the exporter will be updated in LW8 but if nothing comes threw, maybe I can try and create a script. What Im thinking of is a propertys panel that can log animations in the timeline, and export the lingo script to a textfile that will work properly as a queue for the bonePlayer and keyframePlayer commands. Then maybe some LScript Commander stuff to automate setup procedures.

Heres a link I found at macromedia of some other fine shockwave 3D examples:

http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mx/director/articles/3d_sites.html


petterms

I never knew blender had that much going on, I just thought of is as freeware like POv-ray .. very interesting..


Gui Lo

Kaon looks great for virtual objects, especially for online products since there is no plugin required (always an issue).
I could not find a price on there site though. Is it licensing?

I feel the same way about VRML, it would be nice to see a standard 3D format available. I remember playing with VRML a lot when I first got into this stuff at college. Its new incarnation X3D http://www.web3d.org/x3d.html , was supposed to take over but have not seen anyone or any app carry that format.

Thanks to all,
Ill keep you posted at the shockwave forum as to how things work out.

Gui Lo
10-13-2003, 09:59 PM
Noclar7,
I think they have stopped licensing the software and taken production in-house.


I do think there is a hold on the format. My machine is considered average even for consumers and it is fine for int 3d.

I also feel disapointed at NewTeks lack of interest. They seemed to be making the right noises a couple of years ago and then all went quite.

There are a few initiatives to play LW anims on the desktop. If this could be transfered to a browser even through a plug-in then it could have a good market in pre vis, B2B or even commercially as standalone animations a la Flash.

Gui Lo

mdoyle
10-14-2003, 02:16 AM
Hi Noclar 7,

I use shockwave 3D alot in the work we do. Just now it is probably taking up 50% of my working day as a we are working on quite a few projects. Yes you can do a hell of alot with it and I would be more than happy to help you with creating a better exporter if u are interested. None of the guys here no LScript but I would be definitly more than happy to help in aiding you in what should be in the exporter as well as if you want help with director lingo. We have done quite a bit in that field (from user databases, learning recording, music, interaction, feedback, reports etc tied into existing databases but accessed and utilised using shockwave 3d as a "hidden game" front end)

M

retinajoy
10-14-2003, 07:33 AM
I recommend this book by Paul Cantanese:

Director's Third Dimension - Fundamentals of 3D programming in Director 8.5

Takes you from the start to advanced. I got the book in Borders here in UK, but I guess you can order it on Amazon.

Original1
10-14-2003, 10:44 AM
Paul Cantaneses book is a superb book,
I built a complete 3d casino in shockwave two years ago and it handled it fine but its a lot of work.

Noclar7
10-14-2003, 02:20 PM
Gui Lo,

You might like this article http://www.theallineed.com/computers/death_vrml.htm

--

I am definetly going to get that book..