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View Full Version : I don't feel the LW 9.x series was completed.



littlewaves
05-24-2011, 09:21 AM
I don't feel the LW 9.x series was adequately bug-free and stable before the company moved on to LW10

discuss.

with thanks to SBowie and EmperorPete

ArtGoblin
05-24-2011, 09:34 AM
hmmmm... I guess it depends on what you are mainly using LW for... I've been around since version LW 7 and I feel the 9x series is the most stable build I've worked with so far. And further more if I compare that to other programs like 3DSmax wich seems to get a kick out of crashing every now and then, I can also compare it to AutoCAD wich is fairly stable but still crashes way more often than LW 9.6. I've also had a few more crashes on Modo401 than I've had on 9.6.

That said, I must admit that being a LW user first an foremost I've probably gotten to know more of how it works under the hood so I don't go and do crazy operation's that I simply just know beforehand that will crash LW. I'd say that most of my crashes in LW revolve around 3rd party plug-ins, complex dynamics systems and LWmodeller crashing when doing operations on dense poligonal meshes. Also I've heard that fiberFX used to be a pain in the back-end but I really can't say since I've only just scratched it's surface and haven't gotten around to incorporate it into my daily workflow.

OnlineRender
05-24-2011, 09:48 AM
Nevermind lw what's the deal with the buggy forum double posting.

SBowie
05-24-2011, 09:50 AM
Nevermind lw what's the deal with the buggy forum double posting.fixed ...

littlewaves
05-24-2011, 09:55 AM
Nevermind lw what's the deal with the buggy forum double posting.

sorry, my bad

OnlineRender
05-24-2011, 10:04 AM
sorry, my bad

not your fault mate , the forum has been spitting out double posts for a few weeks now

biliousfrog
05-24-2011, 10:04 AM
Whether it was adequately bug free and stable or not is fairly meaningless. The fact of the matter is that those bugs and stability issues were reported and worked on for 18 months with promise of a more stable and less-buggy 'free' update to owners of LW 9.x...instead those bug reports and stability fixes were moved into LW10 and charged extra for.

So, to answer the title of this thread...you're correct, the LW 9.x series wasn't completed. The final product was not delivered as per the promises given, it was altered to a paid upgrade with the only explaination being, "you've had enough free updates, be greatful".

stiff paper
05-24-2011, 10:09 AM
5.91 was the most stable version ever.

All 3D suites have their own sets of bugs, and it's an ongoing process fixing them up. Nothing as complex as a 3D package is ever going to be completely bug free, but at some point it's just time to move on to the next version. It is what it is.

SBowie
05-24-2011, 10:14 AM
I'm trying to follow this, really, not be argumentative, but - is it all that unusual for some bugs to survive into the next integer upgrade, and even longer? Or be first addressed in a later version?

I'm pretty sure there are still some items remaining to be dealt with in 10.x (or whenever) that long predate version 9, or even earlier releases. Not saying that's an ideal scenario, but it doesn't seem all that heinous to me. (I know I've seen some of my own bug reports that weren't addressed in a release dropped into the "Future" bin on Fogbugz, for example.) As annoying as this can be when it's an issue that bugs you personally, it doesn't seem exceptional in the industry.

EmperorPete
05-24-2011, 10:22 AM
Whether it was adequately bug free and stable or not is fairly meaningless. The fact of the matter is that those bugs and stability issues were reported and worked on for 18 months with promise of a more stable and less-buggy 'free' update to owners of LW 9.x...instead those bug reports and stability fixes were moved into LW10 and charged extra for.
So, to answer the title of this thread...you're correct, the LW 9.x series wasn't completed. The final product was not delivered as per the promises given, it was altered to a paid upgrade with the only explaination being, "you've had enough free updates, be greatful".
Basically, this. Newtek got us to find the bugs and then took all that information, charged all over again for it, and left us without an update to the product we'd already paid for.
Newtek's handling of this entire thing has been pathetic. I'll be thinking long and hard before I pay for the privilege of being left high and dry all over again.

littlewaves
05-24-2011, 10:24 AM
I'm trying to follow this, really, not be argumentative, but - is it all that unusual for some bugs to survive into the next integer upgrade, and even longer? Or be first addressed in a later version?

I'm pretty sure there are still some items remaining to be dealt with in 10.x (or whenever) that long predate version 9, or even earlier releases. Not saying that's an ideal scenario, but it doesn't seem all that heinous to me. (I know I've seen some of my own bug reports that weren't addressed in a release dropped into the "Future" bin on Fogbugz, for example.) As annoying as this can be when it's an issue that bugs you personally, it doesn't seem exceptional in the industry.

sure that's a fair point but asking people to beta test with the promise being they'll get another free point upgrade out of it (just bug fixes- not asking for features here) and then going back on that but fixing the bugs in a paid update is different issue (IMHO)

Oh wait! I mentioned "beta"! Sorry!

EmperorPete
05-24-2011, 10:24 AM
I'm trying to follow this, really, not be argumentative, but - is it all that unusual for some bugs to survive into the next integer upgrade, and even longer? Or be first addressed in a later version?
The point is that we were told it would be an update for what we already had, and instead it turned into an update for the next version, meaning that if we wanted the benefit of our own beta testing we'd have to pay all over again. That hardly sounds right, does it?

Sensei
05-24-2011, 10:26 AM
I don't feel the LW 9.x series was adequately bug-free and stable before the company moved on to LW10


Major version bumping means something big has been added to application. VPR truly deserve this. Not to mention adding color spaces.

For me v9.6 has been always stable. Can't complain for crashes.

What people believe as Lw v9.x bugs, often are not bugs like f.e. edge weighting.

hrgiger
05-24-2011, 10:32 AM
Looking back at past updates since I started with Lightwave at 6.5, I have to say that clearly the best advancements and improvements to the program were made during the 9.x period. I'm including LW10 in that too. Not that 10 isn't fine, it is. But given that CORE is yet to be delivered in a release version yet, I will just say that the verdict is out on that one still.

But as far as finished, I think 9.6 is good enough considering all the improvements given, and ready to move onto the next version.

SBowie
05-24-2011, 10:35 AM
Oh wait! I mentioned "beta"! Sorry!Banned.

;)

Lightwolf
05-24-2011, 10:36 AM
What people believe as Lw v9.x bugs, often are not bugs like f.e. edge weighting.
The missing release of a x64 OSX version also isn't a bug - what was announced for 9.x.

Cheers,
Mike

OnlineRender
05-24-2011, 10:39 AM
I'll take a free copy of LW10 right now thank you very much (",) anybody ?

SBowie
05-24-2011, 11:23 AM
Please note, there is a somewhat parallel Mac thread here: http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119212

Inasmuch as it is a bit of a special case, let's let it serve as the repository for Mac aspects of this topic, please. Relevant posts have been moved there.

dysamoria
05-24-2011, 12:07 PM
but that further clouds the issue and further sidelines/marginalizes Mac users. I was just about to post: "those of you claiming 9.6 is great aren't on Macs, are you?"

SBowie
05-24-2011, 12:21 PM
but that further clouds the issue and further sidelines/marginalizes Mac users. I was just about to post: "those of you claiming 9.6 is great aren't on Macs, are you?"Sorry, but while I sympathize, the intention is actually the opposite of what you think. I've been informed the open forum Mac thread was permitted (well before this one) as something of a special case, an exception (for reasons I won't get into). Anyway, please be assured both threads are being given attention.

dysamoria
05-24-2011, 12:26 PM
alright, thanks for your well intended effort, Steve

SBowie
05-24-2011, 12:34 PM
Thanks. I'm committed to the dual notions that (in the current context) a) there are no bad guys here, and b) and if we express ourselves with civility and listen, we might accomplish something. Call me crazy ...

jasonwestmas
05-24-2011, 01:13 PM
Aside from FiberFX being a totally useless for animation, 9.6.1 is pretty darn solid and the best LW release as far as bugs are concerned.

OnlineRender
05-24-2011, 01:33 PM
I may not speak for everybody on this board ,in fact I probably only speak for myself but I hope my feelings are echoed .

we dropped nearly 16 seats LW7.5 for Max "Education" that has no reflection on NT only what the UK market drives for , but to a certain extent this maybe influenced by lack of representation in the UK on Newteks part .

I am not bashing , merely highlighting geographical location and economy changes from app - app , so how does this represent 9.6 and co-inside with this thread .

In short a massive amount !upgrade prices are huge even for EDL .

I feel sorry for the Newtek staff , by the way for recent forum members , there is more staff than just CHUCK, ROB , MATT AND LINO ,I see these name circulate in the forums time and time again as if they are fully responsible for Lightwave ,its a team ,and we as supporters of the product , should..............well support .

Newtek you do try hard and to be fair we as a community don't make it easy , but thats only because you do not make it easy on yourselves .

Like splitting the community , BAD BAD IDEA . . . but what is done is done .

CORE , Hmm moving on , no wait rant ! "why cant we alpha test CORE " even if there was a subscription charge like $40 just to even see and play around with it ,I would fork out $40 easy , ffs we all done it with messiah "that's a full application different ball game I hear you scream , but the basic fundamentals are the same "

what's with all the cloak and dagger stuff , people do not know if there coming or going and "yes" you can argue you have always been fourth coming , but there cryptic and splashed with a little razz jazz to sweeten the deal .

I'm holding back btw trying to be level headed and keep the peace but the motion has passed , people are pissed and to be fair they have eligible reason(s) ,we don't want or demand you to write an apology in blood on the side of the NT building ,we don't even want or expect you to take over AD and become number 1 app .

we just want peace of mind, closure even
ohh and for you to fix the god damn forum icons (",) please

SBowie
05-24-2011, 01:41 PM
there is more staff than just CHUCK, ROB , MATT AND LINO ,I see these name circulate in the forums time and time again as if they are fully responsible for LightwaveExcellent point, thanks.


Like splitting the community , BAD BAD IDEA . . . I hope you're not expecting much of an argument on that.


CORE , Hmm moving on , no wait rant !
New topic, new thread, sorry mate.


ohh and for you to fix the god damn forum icons (",) pleaseHmmm - how did you sneak that past the language bot? Anyway, I would if I could. It would take one of the smart guys to do that. I have a feeling there have been (and may always be, for all I know) bigger fish to fry, sorry.

OnlineRender
05-24-2011, 01:47 PM
Hmmm - how did you sneak that past the language bot?

what word did the bot not pick up ?



Anyway, I would if I could. It would take one of the smart guys to do that.
I know one he's called Erikals , in fact I know several on this board and most willing to help for free .



I have a feeling there have been (and may always be, for all I know) bigger fish to fry, sorry.

I understand your political stake in this and I respect that answer as a mod myself would probably say a similar thing

.but FFS that's the same old same old , which backs up my above thread , RAZZ JAZZ

SBowie
05-24-2011, 01:50 PM
what word did the bot not pick up ?Oh no you don't ... not falling for it.

OnlineRender
05-24-2011, 01:58 PM
Oh no you don't ... not falling for it.

I apppologize Steve but if I did sneak a naughty word , I have no recognition of what it was .

I will test further .

ahhh GOT IT ,fok ?

btw its easy to by pass bots lang filter esp since the VB is about 1+ year old and out of date , probably explain a lot of reasons to why double posts are happening ie:its processing the post command twice and churning it out in random threads and ironically it started when Chuck shut the other two forums down ,btw please remove them from categories , pointless being there as Chuck states and the argument "there is a lot of useful data in there "is valid , but the boards search function will find them , " LAUGHS OUT LOUD " .


ohh this about 9.6 bugs , ahh there is wads of them , but there is always a work around

SBowie
05-24-2011, 02:12 PM
probably explain a lot of reasons to why double posts are happening Maybe, but tbh, I haven't noticed that happening all that much. Once today though ...


btw please remove them from categories , pointless being therePossibly a good idea, but personally I just use the little +/- gadgets (at the right-hand end of the group titlebar) to minimize scrolling, while still keeping them somewhat accessible.

OnlineRender
05-24-2011, 02:15 PM
true enough but they open by default and take up space , but hey ho the forums are a little gimped and grey .

what "vb" skin do you have on right now Steve :rock: never thought I would say that to another man

SBowie
05-24-2011, 02:25 PM
true enough but they open by default and take up space , but hey ho the forums are a little gimped and grey .I use the gray preset - easier on the eyes.

triiko
05-24-2011, 05:59 PM
As a primarily Autodesk user (Maya, Max, ...), I can tell you what a royal PITA Autodesk products and subscribtion can be. Licensing is rediculous and getting tech support is so frustrating. Granted I don't have LW version 10 but 9.6 seems really very stable and responsive compared to Maya. Of course Maya and Max shine in other areas.