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cresshead
05-20-2011, 08:02 AM
hi

Not sure if there is a thread on this but just been reading about Corel Painter12 licencing moving from serial numbers to 'activation'. [i have painter X]

Currently Lightwave uses a usb dongle to licence it's software which in my experience has been pretty simple to manage.

I didn't like the 'welded to a pc' approach of speed edit 1.0 as i have 9 pc's and sometimes i like to work on my quadcore desktop and sometimes on a tablet pc, mac mini and sometimes on a laptop or even a netbook...having an app STUCK on 1 pc just means i really can't use it where/when i want.
Core's licencing is not finalised as yet i believe, so i'm crossing my fingers that it does not go down the activation route and being STUCK to 1 computer.

If Newtek do choose an activation method then they simply HAVE to enable and import export utility that is NOT relying someone sat thousands of miles away in a different timezone to enable once they clock in to work.

hearing about painter 12 moving to activation has in 1 swift move stopped me upgrading to it..i have painter on my laptops and my desktop, i'll stick to that app until my o/s no longer supports it. Same with toonboom studio i use 4.5..i did upgrade to 5.0 when it came out but having found it was activation only not serial number like 4.5 i decided not to even install it...i stuck with 4.5 so i can use it when and where i want.

I realise many of these moves to "1 activation only" is driven by other people pirating software, for me however it just means i won't upgrade to a new version that i find restrictive in day to day use.

Apple still just use serial numbers for their software...seems to be a falling trend however.
If software makers such as Newtek think that the cost of a hardware dongle and shipping etc is not the way forward then a move to a locking system such as used on messiah is a great solution, Newtek would not need to create dongles or ship them...users simply buy a usb memory key and 'make their own dongle'

thoughts?

GCL
05-20-2011, 05:44 PM
Pretty much on your side on this topic.
Consider Realviz software (Retimer,etc) where a serial number is "tied" to a hard drive.
Bought out by 3D Max and had to get support to validate product after a PC upgrade.
Without any point of contact, the thousand dollars software is rendered useless.
I totally go for a dongle scheme (even though for some it's a negative) because it "works" on any attached PC with software. Same for the software that's uses a serial number without having to phone home.

Say no to piracy, but yet the pirates are the ones that can use products indefinitely.

Hominid 3D
05-20-2011, 07:03 PM
Just make it one folder with thepersonal license and the whole install in it. Who wants to use a pirated license does it anyway, independently of the original software´s protection method.

The only thing the companies acomplish with dongles and complicated inflexible licenses is to cripple usability of their software for their paying customers.

I´m aware that´s a complicated topic, similar to the problems the music industry is facing.

But come on, get real. ANY software can be cracked, and ANY 8 year old can find and download it in 10 minutes.

Cloud computing and running software directly from company servers may solve some of the piracy problems in the future.

Not sure if I´d like to depend on external servers and an internet connection to meet a deadline, though.

EmperorPete
05-20-2011, 08:29 PM
I wouldn't touch a program that I had to run from a company's servers with a bargepole. I often take my PC offline completely so I can shut down the antivirus software and squeeze every last ounce of processing power out of it and generally make it run better, and if I was forced to be online all the time I'm working it'd put me off using that program in a big way. And what if the company's server goes down or my router screws up? That would leave me with no program at all. Really, really do NOT want.
I'm not a fan of licenses that are tied to a drive either; I don't want to end up with a useless piece of software just because I've upgraded my system.
Dongle/serial or GTFO.

Blaine91555
05-20-2011, 11:34 PM
The whole idea of punishing customers for the actions of thieves is insane on its face. Those who steal will find a way and the only thing it accomplishes is to screw the paying customers for no good reason.

I see the next horror story is the start of subscriptions where you only rent for a limited time. That means less customers, which means higher prices, which means less customers, which means higher prices...............

GCL
05-21-2011, 07:43 AM
Cloud computing is the rage (for now). As others pointed out, what if -
Server down @ source
ISP down.
Hacking/malware/viruses on the net (remember Sony PS3,etc.).
Not having a "physical" copy @ home for re-installation,@ the mercy of vendor.
Power out @ home or source.
etc....

Cloud computing is beneficial to a point but when users realize they cannot access programs, data locally, they're screwed. I prefer having a "physical" copy of program and completely do all my computing on my systems locally.
Anything goes after it leaves you.

Rayek
05-21-2011, 11:21 PM
Really, I will NEVER EVER AGAIN touch software that binds itself to the hardware it is run on. I learned the hard way with Motion Builder: I bought the full freelance version, only to have it rendered completely useless after switching to new hardware and Autodesk deciding out of the blue not to renew the licenses for that version. Never again.

Same holds true for software that phones home for activation: one or two companies I bought software went belly up, and I was lucky that one gave all its customers a serial number that unlocked the software for all time and hardware. The other company did not - again a lost investment. Only exception is Adobe software - of which I always dread switching to a new system or re-installations. What a mess.

Lightwave's dongle has never given me any problems, and I can run Lightwave wherever I want. (Well, I did lose it for about 5 months last year after moving).

Dexter2999
05-22-2011, 12:45 AM
(Well, I did lose it for about 5 months last year after moving).

Next time you move, open the computer and see if you can plug the dongle into an internal USB port. I left my dongle inside my PC for a year until I bought a laptop and decided I wanted to be able to use the software "on the go". I figured inside the PC it couldn't get lost or damaged.

eagleeyed
05-22-2011, 02:25 AM
Agree with everything said here.

Really happy with the dongle, as it means I can easily use it on my main desktop, but have had to be away from home more often recently so makes it extremely easy to just use on my laptop in spare time which is always with me.

Only downside is if you forget the dongle which has happened a couple of times, discovery mode really is not overly fun. :P

As other posters have said, software pirates will get into the software if its popular enough, why make it harder for the paying customer. :)

As cresshead pointed out though, Messiah's method is pretty decent, as I have the install files for both LightWave and Messiah stored on the key thats also the dongle. Its just a little extra cost to the end user who has to buy a decent usb key (I personally wouldnt risk a no name 'supermarket' brand key for a license)

Lightwolf
05-22-2011, 10:28 AM
The whole idea of punishing customers for the actions of thieves is insane on its face. Those who steal will find a way and the only thing it accomplishes is to screw the paying customers for no good reason.
It's a very fine line to walk. Giving up any licensing scheme just because "those who steal will steal anyhow" is a sure recipe for disaster just as a scheme that is too restrictive is.
And believe me, any developer out there would rather spend time developing a product than spend time working on a licensing scheme. Unfortunately it is necessary. Effectively one would also punish customers if prices need to be raised because of too much piracy - or a company needs to shut down because the development doesn't pay off.


I see the next horror story is the start of subscriptions where you only rent for a limited time.
Please don't equate subscription based schemes with licenses for rent (even if some companies call their licenses for rent subscriptions) - it's not necessarily the same.

Cheers,
Mike - who is a fan of "proper" subscriptions, both as a customer and a developer

Titus
05-22-2011, 10:37 AM
Interesting that we're talking about getting more restrictive licensing schemes while others are doing the opposite, hopefully with success:

http://www.lightworksbeta.com/

Lightwolf
05-22-2011, 10:52 AM
Interesting that we're talking about getting more restrictive licensing schemes while others are doing the opposite, hopefully with success...
Apples and Oranges though:

Lightworks will eventually be open source
A software only editing system is not the companies core business anymore
The still sell add-on modules (which is a bit like the Daz concept, amongst others).

The internet surely opened up the way for unconventional business models though.

Cheers,
Mike

Cageman
05-22-2011, 11:02 AM
Modo license system -> copy -> paste -> Lightwave / CORE

:)