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View Full Version : Done: Muscle and bone deforming flesh in LW



Dodgy
05-18-2011, 07:30 AM
Hi all,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXQcJOiR6AA

just want to share with you a little demo vid of a muscle and bone deformation rig I set up in Lightwave using nodes and DP Kit. The muscle's wobble was SoftFX, but there was no use of Metalink or ClothFX to control the skin, it's all just nodes.

Mike

UnCommonGrafx
05-18-2011, 07:33 AM
Can't be true.
You must not read around here much.
Such things can't be done in LW.



umm..., by the by, how'd you do that? What's the tree look like?
Thanks for showing more things that can't be done in LW. :)

Baba
05-18-2011, 08:28 AM
Wow, very nice Dodgy!
I just hope I'll be able to grok when you explain how you did it ;)

RebelHill
05-18-2011, 08:31 AM
I assume you're using nearest point, etc to displace the target mesh. Done the same thing myself, works fine on simple shapes like in your vid... but no dice on actual characters.

stiff paper
05-18-2011, 10:38 AM
From now on you shall be known as Rebel "Wet Blanket" Hill...

evenflcw
05-18-2011, 11:38 AM
Neat setup Dodgy! Looking forward to see more!

Elmar Moelzer
05-18-2011, 02:34 PM
Dodgy, dont do that, you will ruin everything for those that are trying to sell XSI and ICE on these forums!
;)
GJ, mate!

lino.grandi
05-18-2011, 06:08 PM
Great work Mike!

I've been working on something similar. Take a look!

OFF
05-20-2011, 09:11 PM
Both examples are excellent!

ianr
05-22-2011, 08:41 AM
Excusi preiggo, what are looking at are we looking at?:
are these Lws, Ls to be given out?
Or is this a Japanese lattice plug In?
God visit LW with a small Lattice!

merovingio
06-30-2011, 04:26 PM
Looks very cool dodgy. Any chance to share this knowledge?

I am working on something similar, but i am still far from your results.

thx

Dodgy
06-30-2011, 10:08 PM
I'm planning on doing a few videos on nodes and setups like this for like $5 or something as soon as I have some time.

vector
06-30-2011, 11:00 PM
I hope Rebelhill was wrong and it can work on a whole character not only an ik chain...

Vector

merovingio
07-01-2011, 06:06 AM
I'm planning on doing a few videos on nodes and setups like this for like $5 or something as soon as I have some time.

Sounds good to me.

By the way, i think nodes in general needs some better documentation. The empirical approach could be very frustrating.

In this case i am just connecting nodes try to figure out how those DP nodes works together. As the documentation is quite cryptic to me.

Nearest point seems to be an interesting first step, but the mesh keep deforming even while far from the deforming object. I'll post some screeshot soon about it.

silviotoledo
07-08-2011, 08:50 AM
The DP nodes are really great! really would love to see it incorporated to LW nativelly.

Nice to see this DODGY! really nice!

I'm really happy LINO did a muscle :). Plese give this solution fur us in a ONE CLICK muscle panel. That's perfect! We just need now the skin deform. Muscles are extremelly necessary for doing realistic creatures. I see effector as the best skin deform I've ever seen in 3D packages and it's not usefull for anything. DP node is doing a great job, but please keep it easy to use. Give us a MUSCLE interface, not a extremelly complex amount of nodes connected like in DISPLACEMENT MAP solution lightwave actually has.

These are my efforts using displacement maps driven by bones. No nodes.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a293/silviotoledo/th_Goz-1.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a293/silviotoledo/?action=view&current=Goz-1.mp4)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a293/silviotoledo/th_MUSCLEe.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a293/silviotoledo/?action=view&current=MUSCLEe.mp4)


connection too slow, can't upload the other samples, will search for my posts at the forum

silviotoledo
07-08-2011, 09:26 AM
Found this!!!!

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a293/silviotoledo/FORUNS/th_HAND-02.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a293/silviotoledo/FORUNS/?action=view&current=HAND-02.mp4)

Simulating Muscles on Lightwabe with the tools it has now:
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111386

silviotoledo
07-08-2011, 09:34 AM
Hey Lino

Give us an option to map " displacement maps " in effector, instead of only weightmaps.
if Envelop is available we can quickly script a link between bones rotations and amount of displacement.

Also give us the hability to control MORPHS amount with this displacement and we will have the best deformation possible in the skin, like pooby did in his rig using the morph plugin from Pawel Olas.

Influence objects is usefull for basic shape displacement, but morphs driven by maps works better.
We also need maps over this to add detail.

RebelHill
07-08-2011, 12:06 PM
I hope Rebelhill was wrong and it can work on a whole character

I too wish I were wrong, but sadly I can promise you that Im not, having gone through this whole process of using nodal methods to try and achieve such an effect quite thoroughly. Maybe I'll get to posting up a vid to show how u do this with DP nodes, and why its ultimately of no use on a full character... but atm I got my hands full elsewhere.

And effector isn't gonna be much use either... its a nice lil tool, and has its place, but its nowhere near waht would be needed for an effective muscle system... Im sure some will say "it could be updated", but honestly, the amount of stuff that would need to be added would be tantamount to building a whole new tool pretty much.

You can trust me or not, but at the end of the day, I can assure you that LW completely lacks the necessary tools to even come close to any kind of muscle simulation... no amount of mixing up nodal, displacements, morfs, etc is gonna get you there cos the root of how LW handles deformations on meshes doesn't allow you to pull off the tricks needed to make it happen.

The best that you can get is via LWs existing system for handling deforms via bones/joints and their associated controls such as compensation, bulge, etc, as well as texture based adjustments to those effects if required.

pooby
07-08-2011, 04:22 PM
I think its possible. You could do one with images displacement and 'morphing' UV maps to get sliding, but by golly it would be a lot of hard work on the level of making an animation by doing oil paintings for every frame.

Hominid 3D
07-25-2011, 04:31 PM
I think its possible. You could do one with images displacement and 'morphing' UV maps to get sliding, but by golly it would be a lot of hard work on the level of making an animation by doing oil paintings for every frame.

You don´t need to go through the hassle of UV morphing for this. Just apply the displacements as projected textures with Reference objects that stretch and compress based on joint rotations. Blend a "flex" displacement map on top of that and you can get excellent results.

Emulation beats simulation every time, both in stability, speed and possibility to art direct to your liking.

pooby
07-25-2011, 05:32 PM
And how do you sculpt these maps? I don't believe sculpting packages will output to a planar or spherical map etc, and even if they did, the results when applied in lw would be pretty crude except for areas where you could get away with these kinds of maps, like shoulder blades.
Which is what I did here.
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28601



Dodgy, dont do that, you will ruin everything for those that are trying to sell XSI and ICE on these forums!
;)
GJ, mate!

Oh yes crumbs and cripes, it's all in tatters for me now.

Hominid 3D
07-27-2011, 11:39 AM
And how do you sculpt these maps? I don't believe sculpting packages will output to a planar or spherical map etc, and even if they did, the results when applied in lw would be pretty crude except for areas where you could get away with these kinds of maps, like shoulder blades.
Which is what I did here.
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28601



Hi Pooby, you´re an inspiration.

True, it has only limited use for certain very straight things like tendons and the like. Those could be drawn in Photoshop and then converted to a displacement.

silviotoledo
11-20-2011, 07:00 PM
Great work Mike!

I've been working on something similar. Take a look!


Any news Lino? :)


Mike, could you sahre your rig?
http://www.youtube.com/user/dodgyb2001#p/a/u/1/cXQcJOiR6AA

geo_n
12-07-2011, 10:24 PM
Might be interesting its going opensource.
http://www.indiegogo.com/StretchMesh-for-Autodesk-Maya