View Full Version : Hand Rig - Gestures

ben martin
05-18-2011, 04:07 AM
Is possible in Lightwave to predefine hands gestures (fist, point, spread fingers, close fingers...etc.) using bone rigged hands and assign those gestures to sliders?
(Keep Endomorphs out of the equation).

Many thanks!

05-18-2011, 04:15 AM
Maestro has that.

LW, too: the pose system. As well, there are tools inside IKB for this purpose.

05-18-2011, 04:40 AM
I would assume that you could do it some by having a Null, and then using 'follower' on the channels on the bones you need to move into that position. Not sure how it would work for blends between different poses. Also, morphs would work.

Not sure if Rhiggit does it. Did you miss out on the Messiah deal? it definiately has it.

ben martin
05-18-2011, 05:01 AM
Did you miss out on the Messiah deal? it definiately has it.

I have Messiah (3 licenses), but LW10 is opening new doors in RIG.
Am exploring the possibility to simplify my workflow bring it all back to Lightwave. :)

ben martin
05-18-2011, 05:02 AM
LW, too: the pose system.

Hum... can you specify that?
What do you mean by Lightwave Pose system? Motion Mixer?

05-18-2011, 07:40 AM
I believe you have the idea in your RIG statement.
As I understand IKB, it has a pose saving scheme one could make use of.
There are pose saving plugins available that will work with bones and the use of the RIG opportunities.
I haven't been in that arena in a while but am on my way back to it. I was using some of this stuff to do Sign Language, in particular, letters and oft used hand shapes. The tools are much slicker now.

ben martin
05-18-2011, 10:08 AM
As I understand IKB, it has a pose saving scheme one could make use of.

Haa... ok... you're talking about IKB poses.
Motion Mixer is also a solution.
It is possible to create 5 frames gesture hand positions and latter use it at any time in the MMixer NLE time line. :)

What I am after is a group of sliders to drive hand gestures.

stiff paper
05-18-2011, 10:21 AM
I don't know of a way to put hand poses on sliders that isn't a real pain to set up for each character, and RebelHill would definitely be the one to ask about that anyway.

Peter Thomas has a free plugin that stores poses in the negative frames (i.e. below frame zero) and assigns them to hotkeys. It doesn't do exactly what you're after, but it is at least a solution for storing and recalling poses:

Ah, damn. I just followed that llink and it seems that the T4D rigging tools have been updated and now you can only get Negative Frame Paste by buying the full tools.

Aha! No, the plugin is still free, it's just the link on LWpluginDB that's wrong, here's the right link:

05-18-2011, 10:43 AM
In theory, all of the ways mentioned could also be attached to sliders for this functionality.
I dislike the slider system for such things so won't be much help on this.

ben martin
05-18-2011, 11:29 AM
Thanks for the interest and suggestions. :thumbsup:
I have T4D tools. :-)

Oh well, I'll figure out the best way to animate had gestures on the fly... like they use to say: "Need is the base of invention!" :)

05-18-2011, 12:06 PM
What about using negative frames to store the poses and then using cyclist with different nulls? Then using one slider per null...Im not trying this, but in my mind it sounds good ;)

ben martin
05-18-2011, 12:37 PM
Seems a good idea!
Anyway, right now am messing around with Motion Mixer... :hey:

05-18-2011, 12:38 PM
Well, to do it with sliders, the more straightforward way is gonna be to use a bunch of expressions, added on top of one another, each of which would use mapRange to translate a sliders 0-1 value into each knuckles 0-whatever rotational value. That works out at one expression per knuckle per pose, plus one expression per knuckle to add/consoloidate the other expressions for each pose... so potentially quite a lot. Also the problem with this is what happens when you try to blend between poses... so when going from a fist to the Vs... what does it look like with each at 50% as they cross blend?? Probably not very nice, and very difficult to tween properly.

TBH, Id forget the whole sliders idea, and stick with the pose copy/paste plugins going around... setting up poses in negative frames is a good enough way to work, and ultimately leaves u with FK keys on your knuckles which makes tweening far easier. Much faster to setup too.

ben martin
05-18-2011, 12:45 PM
TBH, Id forget the whole sliders idea, and stick with the pose copy/paste plugins going around...
Thanks for jumping in and clarify this.
I was already convinced that this would give me a lot of headaches for the profit.
You just confirmed what I was afraid of it does not pay the pain!

Am fully convinced, many thanks!! :thumbsup:


05-18-2011, 12:50 PM
Michael Blackbourn wrote a tutorial long ago on how to create poses in MotionMixer and control these with sliders. Not sure if it is available online anymore. The old hosting site is long gone.

I'd agree with RH though. I'm not found of multiple (overlapping) layers of enveloped animation either. You have to constantly keep track of what's animated on what level and usually end up resetting each layer to get back in control.

Pose Mixer tutorial by Michael Blackbourn

Hominid 3D
05-18-2011, 12:59 PM
Motion Mixer would be best for that kind of stuff.

05-18-2011, 01:19 PM
I would use negative frames and cyclist to do this, it's simple to setup and simple to edit/adjust the animation of the different type of gestures.

ben martin
05-18-2011, 02:51 PM
Pose Mixer tutorial by Michael Blackbourn

Very cool! Thanks for the link! :thumbsup:
I made my mind. I'll go for Motion Mixer!