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Philbert
04-23-2011, 03:55 PM
What's up with AD using an old LightWave model in their maya 2012 ads?

http://www.caclark.net/?p=2506

manholoz
04-23-2011, 05:03 PM
Well, on one hand it is a compliment to your abilities (and Lightwave's), but shouldn't they ask permission for including your model? Isn't this copyright infringement?

Elmar Moelzer
04-23-2011, 05:08 PM
I guess it shows how much modeling in Maya still sucks compared to LW.

Philbert
04-23-2011, 05:11 PM
Just to be clear, it's not my model, it's Craig Clark's

cresshead
04-23-2011, 05:27 PM
well Newtek did push lightwave as an ideal 'plugin' for maya and 3dsmax a few years back...
maybe Autodesk though it was made with a plugin??? :devil:

manholoz
04-23-2011, 05:48 PM
I thought only 3dsmax was a plugin OS, so is Maya too? :devil:
:jester:
Jokes aside, it looks like a mighty fine airplane model :)

GregMalick
04-23-2011, 10:51 PM
Could be good marketing for NewTek if they show the original model in Modeler or layout with an annotation "circa 2001"
and then capture the AD pic along side...

Heading:
LIGHTWAVE MODELS, STILL THE ENVY OF THE COMPETITION!

archijam
04-24-2011, 02:42 AM
Nice, congrats, Craig! One for the portfolio - 'as seen on (ad) TV' :)

Red_Oddity
04-24-2011, 04:44 AM
(I made the high & low detail models back in 2001 at Argonaut Sheffield, based on a concept by Richard Wright

If he made that model in the employment of Argonaut Sheffield, the copyrights lie with them (it was a model for a game i believe), Sheffield Argonaut went up for sale in 2004, and from there on i take it some other company bought the company and all assets.

jwiede
04-24-2011, 07:26 AM
Also, he didn't mention anywhere that it was modeled in Lightwave. Was that mentioned elsewhere? Just because it was shown in Layout doesn't mean it was modeled in Modeler. I'dve expected him to mention that in the blog as well if it hadn't been modeled in Maya.

archijam
04-24-2011, 07:34 AM
Nice, congrats, Craig! One for the portfolio - 'as seen on (ad) TV' :)

Craig- this was not meant to be sarcastic, thought the link was to the video, just saw the blog post.

Philbert
04-24-2011, 10:01 AM
Also, he didn't mention anywhere that it was modeled in Lightwave. Was that mentioned elsewhere? Just because it was shown in Layout doesn't mean it was modeled in Modeler. I'dve expected him to mention that in the blog as well if it hadn't been modeled in Maya.

Well since Craig is a well known LightWave modeler it seemed obvious when he tweeted "New Blog Post : Bloody Autodesk! LOL" with that link. I asked why autodesk is using his LW model to promote maya and he said

"dunno, bit weird really. Especially as powerdrome was almost 10 years ago lol"

It was made for the Powerdrome XBox game.

Titus
04-24-2011, 02:20 PM
While I understand the irony of the situation, AD seems to be showing NLE animation capabilites, not modeling.

Dexter2999
04-24-2011, 02:25 PM
While I understand the irony of the situation, AD seems to be showing NLE animation capabilites, not modeling.

Which is why it is only amusing instead of being hilarious/outrageous.

Titus
04-24-2011, 02:38 PM
Now it's the opportunity of NT to use AD content in their demo :D.

Philbert
04-24-2011, 04:46 PM
I get that too, but people who view it are still going to assume it was made in maya if not maya 2012.

Red_Oddity
04-24-2011, 04:53 PM
Who cares, as long as ADSK doesn't claim it was modelled in Maya, i see no problem.
I have seen that model mostly used to demo Viewport 2.0 and FBIK re-targeting.

It's the same with software dev showreels, when you check showreels from Siggraph from different vendors, you often see the same shot come by on all reels.

Cageman
04-24-2011, 05:00 PM
Also, he didn't mention anywhere that it was modeled in Lightwave. Was that mentioned elsewhere? Just because it was shown in Layout doesn't mean it was modeled in Modeler. I'dve expected him to mention that in the blog as well if it hadn't been modeled in Maya.

If you knew Craig and his work, you should know that he is quite found of LWs modeler...

I mean... when he worked at Framestore, they got him a lic for LW... (from what I understood reading a bunch of interviews etc). I can, of course, be wrong about it all and have missunderstood everything completely.

:)

Philbert
04-24-2011, 06:11 PM
Who cares, as long as ADSK doesn't claim it was modelled in Maya, i see no problem.
I have seen that model mostly used to demo Viewport 2.0 and FBIK re-targeting.

It's the same with software dev showreels, when you check showreels from Siggraph from different vendors, you often see the same shot come by on all reels.

Yes there is no problem, legally or otherwise, I was just merely pointing out that it's borderline dishonest.

Elmar Moelzer
04-24-2011, 06:54 PM
I wonder what would happen if NT used a model from Autodesks content to promote LW...

djlithium
04-24-2011, 07:07 PM
Could be good marketing for NewTek if they show the original model in Modeler or layout with an annotation "circa 2001"
and then capture the AD pic along side...

Heading:
LIGHTWAVE MODELS, STILL THE ENVY OF THE COMPETITION!

now that is smart 'stick it to em' marketing. You could build an entire campaign off of themes like that. Great idea!

Lightwolf
04-24-2011, 07:14 PM
I wonder what would happen if NT used a model from Autodesks content to promote LW...
That depends on the license that comes with the content, doesn't it? ;)
And if it doesn't allow for the commercial use of it then there's a problem to start with (afaik a lot of the more recent LW content has a similar restriction).

However, in this case I suspect they got permission from the owner of the mesh. At least for demo purposes.

Cheers,
Mike

Elmar Moelzer
04-24-2011, 07:30 PM
afaik a lot of the more recent LW content has a similar restriction
Yeah that is something I dont like. Content should help getting you started. I really loved the classic content because of that...
Most of the LW8.0 content was free too. I never understood why Jay got rid of it.

BlueApple
04-24-2011, 08:30 PM
This thread makes me think of some of the very good work that NT uses to advertise LW10. Many of the images at these links:

http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/lw10.php
http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/overview.php

(primarily the camels and alien) don't make me think about the awesome tools in LightWave, but rather how impressive other programs are at sculpting, map generation, etc. With regards to the alien, Lightwave is presumably showing off some great rigging work done in LightWave and not the actual mesh.

As jwiede states that AD makes no claims about the origin of the model used in the AD ad, NT likewise doesn't immediately disclose the electronic origins of some of the images used in its own ads.

akademus
04-24-2011, 10:20 PM
Copyright is still breached. They used someone elses model without permission to create advertising material. Regardless what they were showcasing they need to obtain permission from the artist and mention him in the video.

I'd sue...

Philbert
04-24-2011, 10:38 PM
As jwiede states that AD makes no claims about the origin of the model used in the AD ad, NT likewise doesn't immediately disclose the electronic origins of some of the images used in its own ads.

This is true but it's a fair assumption that if you see a model in an advertisement for a program that doesn't modeling, that the model was made in that program. With the alien for example, it's clearly sculpted, either from scratch or at least the details. LightWave is not a sculpting program, so I don't think anyone would assume the alien is 100% made in LW.

TeZzy
04-25-2011, 03:03 AM
a competent modeller can actually model details so well that you would think it is sculpted.

Check this out

http://timmehmet.cgsociety.org/gallery/

The alien model doesn't have details that surpass the bat model I just linked

Lightwolf
04-25-2011, 04:39 AM
Copyright is still breached. They used someone elses model without permission to create advertising material. Regardless what they were showcasing they need to obtain permission from the artist and mention him in the video.
If all rights to the model were sold to the company that paid for Craig to do the work (which is likely a part of his contract) then there is no need to ask the actual artist. He doesn't have the rights anymore (usually only with the exception of self-promotion).

Cheers,
Mike

BlueApple
04-25-2011, 09:06 AM
With the alien for example, it's clearly sculpted, either from scratch or at least the details. LightWave is not a sculpting program, so I don't think anyone would assume the alien is 100% made in LW.

If Blender dispalyed the same alien image in an ad would your expectations reagrding its source be the same? Blender has some sculpting tools, though not nearly as robust as ZB/Mudbox/3dCoat.

Philbert
04-25-2011, 11:49 AM
If blender used the alien I might assume it was made in blender, because blender has those tools. I've also seen blenders tools do work comparable to that.

CAClark
05-05-2011, 02:07 AM
As I said in my blog post, my interest in the 'situation' was only the irony of using a LW made asset in a Maya 2012 video. Until someone mentioned it to me on twitter, I was non the wiser. The fact that the models from Powerdrome were never publicly available, they must have acquired it from a former employee or extracted it from the game somehow, though it does look like the front of the model was squashed a bit somehow as well.

I'm not claiming foul or copyright infringement :-)

It was correct BTW that I always model in Lightwave, inc my filmwork at Framestore.

Cheers!