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Pixelight
04-22-2011, 05:48 PM
Is the LW trial supposed to be buggy? Or is V10 buggy all together?
I just lost an entire project in LW.
I have to confess I'm getting tired of it. I'm having so many problem and first I was thinking it was because I'm new to it. But now the same errors are happening multiple times.
Like, why would switching VPR on move an object of mine?
Why would adjusting settings in the Surface Editor move an object of mine?
This has happened multiple times now. I turn VPR on and when it switches to VPR one of my objects is in a different place. Same thing happened when I went to the Surface Editor. Is it because the object was selected? If so how do de-select everything? I know hitting / works on modeler but doesn't seem to work in Layout. Why is this happening?

Also, as I said, I just basically lost a project. I was finished texturing and all and I closed the project and yes I had saved it, and when I re-opened it the model was again untouched and untextured. What gives?

The thing is, because I'm learning, I like to save increments or versions of my project every step of the way and I save what I do very often. Just in case something goes wrong and I have to close it. So I don't need to go back to step 1. So I save V1,V2,V3 and so on. I was on V8 with all the textures ready. Then I was working on V8 and had already saved it SEVERAL times when I did something wrong and undo didn't work. I don't know why either. It happens quite often that I can't undo something, even though my undos are set to 20.
Anyway, since I couldn't undo it, I thought ok, I will close it and reopen V8 again and I should be back to where I last SAVED it, which was just before the error happened. Then I closed it and when asked if I wanted to save it I hit NO because I had saved it up to where it was right. Then for my surprise, when I re-opened v8 my model had no textures, NOTHING! What's going on? Is this a known bug?

Thanks for the help.

nickdigital
04-22-2011, 05:54 PM
If you're adjusting surfaces in Layout...you need to save the object (File>Save Object). Surface settings aren't saved with the lws file...they're saved with the lwo file.

To place an object in Layout you have to key it into place. Some people use auto-key but that means you always have to be at frame 0 (or 1, depending on how you're working) to place your item. That is unless you planned on having it animate through scene. If you don't have auto-key on you'll want to get into the habit of moving an object, hitting [Enter], entering in the keyframe that you want and hitting [Enter] again.

Pixelight
04-22-2011, 06:06 PM
Thanks for the reply.


If you're adjusting surfaces in Layout...you need to save the object (File>Save Object). Surface settings aren't saved with the lws file...they're saved with the lwo file.

Aha! Dammit! :foreheads
Didn't know that. I thought you only saved objects in Modeler and in Layout you would only save the whole scene. So you have to save the scene and the objects? This is weird and doesn't make much sense to me. So saving the objects saves the surfacing and geo and saving the scene saves the lights, camera and animation? This is very weird. This is one thing I'm really disliking about LW. The annoyance of having to deal with 2 programs. But having to save separated parts of the scene really takes the cake in inconvenience.
:(



To place an object in Layout you have to key it into place.

Don't understand what you mean here. I normally either send it from Modeler or load an object from a scene. What do you mean by keying into place?


Some people use auto-key but that means you always have to be at frame 0 (or 1, depending on how you're working) to place your item. That is unless you planned on having it animate through scene. If you don't have auto-key on you'll want to get into the habit of moving an object, hitting [Enter], entering in the keyframe that you want and hitting [Enter] again.
Well, this is interesting to know. But I didn't have keyframes at all as i was not animating. I was working on a still. Unless I misunderstood you?

Any ideas why would turning VPR on or using Surface Editor move my object to a different place and misalign it from the rest of the objects?

wrench
04-22-2011, 06:18 PM
I would turn on autokey if I were you. Otherwise you still need to register keys for any movement of your object, whether it's to animate that motion or just place it statically. If you don't turn on auotkey you have to do this keying manually.

B

nickdigital
04-22-2011, 06:24 PM
Didn't know that. I thought you only saved objects in Modeler and in Layout you would only save the whole scene. So you have to save the scene and the objects? This is weird and doesn't make much sense to me. So saving the objects saves the surfacing and geo and saving the scene saves the lights, camera and animation? This is very weird. This is one thing I'm really disliking about LW. The annoyance of having to deal with 2 programs. But having to save separated parts of the scene really takes the cake in inconvenience.
:(


Layout lws files save the light, animation, rendering data.
Modeler lwo files save the geometry, point map data and surface data.

There is some crossover with surfaces. For example your surface might be using a null in Layout for reference.

Your opinion on the dual app nature of LW isn't new. It's understandable that it's probably confusing to someone coming from a new app. I personally like it as from a management standpoint I can separate my modeling process from the animation/rendering process. It's very easy to replace objects too so it makes working with a group easy. Once you accept that that's how LightWave is you'll probably get used to it. Will you like it? That's entirely up to you.



Don't understand what you mean here. I normally either send it from Modeler or load an object from a scene. What do you mean by keying into place?


Say for example you model something as 0,0,0 in Modeler. When you send it to Layout it'll load up at the origin. Say someone built a table that you want to use. When you bring in the table your model will be resting on the floor. In Layout you would move your object up until it sits on top of the table. In a program like Maya you just move the object and that's fine. In Layout you need to key it there. Keying doesn't mean you're necessarily animating it. You're just giving it different positional data than what it came in from Modeler.



Any ideas why would turning VPR on or using Surface Editor move my object to a different place and misalign it from the rest of the objects?

My guess is when you're clicking something, Layout is refreshing. So if you moved something but didn't key it...Layout is just refreshing and putting it back to where it was originally.

Pixelight
04-22-2011, 06:48 PM
Layout lws files save the light, animation, rendering data.
Modeler lwo files save the geometry, point map data and surface data.

There is some crossover with surfaces. For example your surface might be using a null in Layout for reference.

I see. So if I want to save an increment I have to do both a Save Scene Increment and a Save Object Increment?
If so, I will be saving only the object currently selected? If that's the case would it be better and safer to just do a Save All Objects? Or is there something bad about that?
Very complicated and unintuitive. :compbeati




Your opinion on the dual app nature of LW isn't new. It's understandable that it's probably confusing to someone coming from a new app. I personally like it as from a management standpoint I can separate my modeling process from the animation/rendering process. It's very easy to replace objects too so it makes working with a group easy. Once you accept that that's how LightWave is you'll probably get used to it. Will you like it? That's entirely up to you.

Nah, it's not that big of a deal. As you said, it's just a matter of getting used to it. It's just that I don't really see a reason for it being that way and I even heard Core may do away with this.




Say for example you model something as 0,0,0 in Modeler. When you send it to Layout it'll load up at the origin. Say someone built a table that you want to use. When you bring in the table your model will be resting on the floor. In Layout you would move your object up until it sits on top of the table. In a program like Maya you just move the object and that's fine. In Layout you need to key it there. Keying doesn't mean you're necessarily animating it. You're just giving it different positional data than what it came in from Modeler.

Wow, another picky personality trait of LW? Why is it not called Mariah Carey? What a diva!:D

So do you suggest leaving the Autokey on? I turned it off because for example, I was adjusting my model's position in relation to the camera and autokey recorded that as animation while I was just rotating the model for it to face the camera in a more appropriated way. I didn't mean to animate. But it recorded an animation because Autokey was on. So I either have to remember to key every object's position in when I move them or remember to turn autokey off when I'm adjusting a model's position? Argh!:bangwall:
Also if I leave autokey on, and move my model to the top of the table as you said, won't it record the movement as animation and animate the model flying from the floor to the top of the table for example?



My guess is when you're clicking something, Layout is refreshing. So if you moved something but didn't key it...Layout is just refreshing and putting it back to where it was originally.

Yeah, it seems that could be very well what happened since I had no idea you had to key this in. I watched a whole LW tutorial with several chapters and never saw this mentioned. You would think this would be mentioned since I have never heard of another 3D program that behaves that way. Very unusual.


Besides that, I'm very happy with LW so far...

Thanks again.

Pixelight
04-22-2011, 06:50 PM
I would turn on autokey if I were you. Otherwise you still need to register keys for any movement of your object, whether it's to animate that motion or just place it statically. If you don't turn on auotkey you have to do this keying manually.

B


Like I said. Wouldn't leaving autokey on record every movement, even when I'm just rotating the model to face the camera in a better way etc and when I'm not intending to animate? Or record my camera pan, tilt, dolly etc when I'm just trying to find the shot?

Pixelight
04-22-2011, 07:12 PM
If you're adjusting surfaces in Layout...you need to save the object (File>Save Object). Surface settings aren't saved with the lws file...they're saved with the lwo file.


I just did a test and it still doesn't work. I tried several options. There's no File>Save Object option. So I tried Save Current Object, Save All Objects and Save Object increment. Then with all the options I first saved a scene increment, then hit close and when asked if I wanted to save the scene and object I said NO since I had just saved it. Then when I re-open, the material I applied in the Node Editor is gone!

It only works if I hit yes when asked if I want to save scene and objects before i close. So what's the point of saving it from the file menu if it doesn't save it?

I don't understand. :bangwall:

Sensei
04-22-2011, 07:34 PM
Download TrueArt's SaveSceneAndAllObjects plugin from http://www.trueart.pl then hot-key it.
It will save both scene and all objects together without asking about anything.
Also incremental to both scene and objects (appending digits and the end of file).

nickdigital
04-22-2011, 07:37 PM
Like I said. Wouldn't leaving autokey on record every movement, even when I'm just rotating the model to face the camera in a better way etc and when I'm not intending to animate? Or record my camera pan, tilt, dolly etc when I'm just trying to find the shot?

If you're doing all your adjustment and placements at frame 0 then using auto-key on is fine. But yes, if you scrub forward and start moving stuff you're essentially animating the object now since your changes will be on a frame other than 0. That's why I personally don't use Auto-key.

hrgiger
04-22-2011, 07:44 PM
I've never had a problem with it not saving surface settings. If I want to save both the scene and the object file at the same time, you can just use the save all button.

Is this the menu you're seeing when you save? Keep in mind that if your object is not the current selection in layout, some of these options will not be available.

nickdigital
04-22-2011, 07:47 PM
I see. So if I want to save an increment I have to do both a Save Scene Increment and a Save Object Increment?
If so, I will be saving only the object currently selected? If that's the case would it be better and safer to just do a Save All Objects? Or is there something bad about that?
Very complicated and unintuitive. :compbeati


If you're adjusting the surface of your object you'll want to save the object...either over itself or increment it if you want. Then save the scene. The lws file just references the object...meaning the lws file just points to it. The object doesn't reside in the lws file. The order is very important. So for example:

Scenario01
-You have a scene called MyRoom with a the object Ball01 in it.
-You change the Ball01 surface from red to green and then save the object as Ball02.
-You then save your scene to MyRoom02. When you load up MyRoom02 it should bring in Ball02.

Scenario02
-You have a scene called MyRoom with a the object Ball01 in it.
-You change the Ball01 surface to green and then save the object as Ball02.
-You close Layout and reload MyRoom.
-MyRoom still has the red version of Ball01. Ball02 actually exists but you didn't re-save your scene to use Ball02.



So do you suggest leaving the Autokey on? I turned it off because for example, I was adjusting my model's position in relation to the camera and autokey recorded that as animation while I was just rotating the model for it to face the camera in a more appropriated way. I didn't mean to animate. But it recorded an animation because Autokey was on. So I either have to remember to key every object's position in when I move them or remember to turn autokey off when I'm adjusting a model's position? Argh!:bangwall:
Also if I leave autokey on, and move my model to the top of the table as you said, won't it record the movement as animation and animate the model flying from the floor to the top of the table for example?


Animation just means a change overtime. In LW you still need to key the change in position,rotation or scale to get it to apply. So in your example you'd either want to use Auto-Key and always stay on the frame you intend to render. Or turn it off and just get in the habit of hitting the [Enter] key when you want something to stay where you put it.

Pixelight
04-22-2011, 07:56 PM
I've never had a problem with it not saving surface settings. If I want to save both the scene and the object file at the same time, you can just use the save all button.

Is this the menu you're seeing when you save? Keep in mind that if your object is not the current selection in layout, some of these options will not be available.

Yes, I can see all these options. And I just did another test and used Save All as you suggested. Didn't work. It only works if when I quit I save it again. If I click no at exit the Dielectric material is gone when I re-open it!
Now I'm not retarded. This is really happening and I'm willing to record a video of my desktop showing it to prove. This is EXTREMELY ANNOYING! I have been the whole day messing with LW.
Does LW trail have any limitations?

nickdigital
04-22-2011, 07:59 PM
Oh wait, you're using the trial? Hm, that's a good question. I know there's a point limit on objects in the trial. I don't know what the limitations in Layout are aside from adding a watermark to renders.

[Edit]
Well the LW10 trial says it's fully functional for 30 days so I would think you'd be fine. If you want to screen record what you're doing that would help us help you.

hrgiger
04-22-2011, 08:11 PM
Yes, I can see all these options. And I just did another test and used Save All as you suggested. Didn't work. It only works if when I quit I save it again. If I click no at exit the Dielectric material is gone when I re-open it!
Now I'm not retarded. This is really happening and I'm willing to record a video of my desktop showing it to prove. This is EXTREMELY ANNOYING! I have been the whole day messing with LW.
Does LW trail have any limitations?

I wasn't suggesting anything, just trying to help. Actually, it might help if you record the screen because I honestly can't think of why saving the object isn't working for you. I just tested it in LW10 to see if maybe there was a bug or something but it worked as expected.
There are no restrictions on a trial version of Lightwave 10 for 30 days. How old is your trial? Because as Nick suggested, trials after that point have a point restriction on saving objects.

jasonwestmas
04-22-2011, 08:33 PM
Yeah, just use the save all option and set a hotkey for it. Makes things so much less painful. Or use the trueart savesceneallobjects plugin. Don't know about the trial version, probably will cause problems for you trying to save certain things.

Pixelight
04-22-2011, 08:40 PM
If you're adjusting the surface of your object you'll want to save the object...either over itself or increment it if you want. Then save the scene. The lws file just references the object...meaning the lws file just points to it. The object doesn't reside in the lws file. The order is very important. So for example:

Scenario01
-You have a scene called MyRoom with a the object Ball01 in it.
-You change the Ball01 surface from red to green and then save the object as Ball02.
-You then save your scene to MyRoom02. When you load up MyRoom02 it should bring in Ball02.

Scenario02
-You have a scene called MyRoom with a the object Ball01 in it.
-You change the Ball01 surface to green and then save the object as Ball02.
-You close Layout and reload MyRoom.
-MyRoom still has the red version of Ball01. Ball02 actually exists but you didn't re-save your scene to use Ball02.


Thanks A LOT for the very detailed step by step instructions. This seems to work. I tried like a dozen times to make sure and it always re-opened with the last material change and it never asked me if I wanted to save anything when I clicked close. I tried save current object +save scene and also save object increment+save scene increment. Both worked. :beerchug:

So far so good. I just thought, Ok I was doing it wrong. I was probably saving the scene first and then the model and this is why it didn't work. But then it got weird again. I tried doing Save All again, which previously didn't work either. But now Save All also works too. Why would Save All not work before and now it does since I don't think the order matters since you are well, saving all? This is the weird part.

Anyway, if Saving All works it seems the simplest way. Is there a downside to it?

Thanks again.

Pixelight
04-22-2011, 08:49 PM
If you're doing all your adjustment and placements at frame 0 then using auto-key on is fine. But yes, if you scrub forward and start moving stuff you're essentially animating the object now since your changes will be on a frame other than 0. That's why I personally don't use Auto-key.

So as long as I stay on frame 0 I should be ok? If I'm working on a still frame, would making the timeline 1 frame only work the same? So I can't accidentally bump it to another frame?


Animation just means a change overtime. In LW you still need to key the change in position,rotation or scale to get it to apply. So in your example you'd either want to use Auto-Key and always stay on the frame you intend to render. Or turn it off and just get in the habit of hitting the [Enter] key when you want something to stay where you put it.

Yeah, staying on frame 0 could work fine for stills. But if you are working on an animation. Can you do all your object and camera re-arranging parked at frame zero with autokey on and when you are ready to animate you then move to the following frame or it won't work? Or maybe as I mentioned above, shrink the timeline to 1 frame while you re-arrange and then expand it back to whatever how many frames you need your animation to be. Would that work?

About getting on the habit of pressing ENTER to key. I need to do it only when I move the object or to any changes like rotation etc?
The panel that comes up when you hit enter is Create Motion Key right? It asks the frame but you can also enter Position, Rotation, Scale. I'm guessing you only enter what you want to keyframe? It looks like the same panel as you use for animation.

Pixelight
04-22-2011, 08:52 PM
I wasn't suggesting anything, just trying to help. Actually, it might help if you record the screen because I honestly can't think of why saving the object isn't working for you. I just tested it in LW10 to see if maybe there was a bug or something but it worked as expected.
There are no restrictions on a trial version of Lightwave 10 for 30 days. How old is your trial? Because as Nick suggested, trials after that point have a point restriction on saving objects.

Hey, I know you're trying to help and I'm thankful for that.
Now as it turns out, Save ALL worked (see my reply to Nickdigital). No idea why it didn't work before.

By the way, my trial must still have around 20 days left.

Pixelight
04-22-2011, 08:53 PM
Yeah, just use the save all option and set a hotkey for it. Makes things so much less painful. Or use the trueart savesceneallobjects plugin. Don't know about the trial version, probably will cause problems for you trying to save certain things.

The trial should be fully functional according to Newtek's site.

What is the advantage of the plug-in vs just using Save All in LW?
Thanks.

caesar
04-22-2011, 09:18 PM
Oh wait, you're using the trial? Hm, that's a good question. I know there's a point limit on objects in the trial. I don't know what the limitations in Layout are aside from adding a watermark to renders.

[Edit]
Well the LW10 trial says it's fully functional for 30 days so I would think you'd be fine. If you want to screen record what you're doing that would help us help you.

After the 30 days LW trial will open in "discovery mode": Modeler will have a number of points limitation (per layer), renders will be watermarked, it won't accept any commercial plugin (like fprime) and Hub won´t sync (you have to save in Modeler and open in Layout.)

nickdigital
04-22-2011, 09:58 PM
Anyway, if Saving All works it seems the simplest way. Is there a downside to it?


The only downside would be if you were messing with surfaces on an object just to mess around and play with VPR but didn't intend to keep them. If you do Save All you just saved that "experiment" to your object.


So as long as I stay on frame 0 I should be ok? If I'm working on a still frame, would making the timeline 1 frame only work the same? So I can't accidentally bump it to another frame?

Yeah that'd be fine.




Yeah, staying on frame 0 could work fine for stills. But if you are working on an animation. Can you do all your object and camera re-arranging parked at frame zero with autokey on and when you are ready to animate you then move to the following frame or it won't work? Or maybe as I mentioned above, shrink the timeline to 1 frame while you re-arrange and then expand it back to whatever how many frames you need your animation to be. Would that work?


Yes that would work. I don't use Auto-key but I suppose if I did and was at frame 10 because I was animating but then wanted to move the position of a prop...I'd scrub back to frame 0, move the table and then go back to 10 to continue animating.




About getting on the habit of pressing ENTER to key. I need to do it only when I move the object or to any changes like rotation etc?
The panel that comes up when you hit enter is Create Motion Key right? It asks the frame but you can also enter Position, Rotation, Scale. I'm guessing you only enter what you want to keyframe? It looks like the same panel as you use for animation.
Yes, if you're not using Auto-key. It's also a nice way to copy a keyframe to another spot in time. Say for example you have a ball sitting on the ground at frame 10 but you want that same pose at 20. Just hit Enter and change 10 to 20. You could also use the Dope Sheet or the Graph Editor to copy the frame but using the [Enter] key route is quicker IMHO.

I think calling it a Motion Key is probably what's confusing you. It's just applying the changes you made to that spot in time.

Pixelight
04-23-2011, 12:39 AM
Yes, if you're not using Auto-key. It's also a nice way to copy a keyframe to another spot in time. Say for example you have a ball sitting on the ground at frame 10 but you want that same pose at 20. Just hit Enter and change 10 to 20. You could also use the Dope Sheet or the Graph Editor to copy the frame but using the [Enter] key route is quicker IMHO.

I see. So changing it from frame 10 to 20 will actually copy it, meaning clone it? I would have thought it would move the key frame form 10 to 20. So the enter key has nothing to do with actual animating key framing?


I think calling it a Motion Key is probably what's confusing you. It's just applying the changes you made to that spot in time.

Yeah, it is named a little strange. But do I have to change or click on anything like X,Y,Z etc or I just have to hit OK?

Thanks again.

-EsHrA-
04-23-2011, 04:13 AM
hit double 'Enter' to set a keyframe.

IMI
04-23-2011, 04:51 AM
Just wait until the first time that you export a .obj file and import it into some other program to paint or texture...

Oops, where's my UV map? Oh I see, it never got saved with the OBJ file because you have to manually tell Modeler to save the UV map with the .obj file.


Not like there's an option box at export time though asking if you want to save the UV map. No, that would be too simple and we pros prefer challenges to keep us on our toes...
So you have to make sure that your UV map is applied to each surface in the surface editor prior to exporting OBJ or else it won't get sent out with an obj export.

Most.Annoying."Feature".Ever... And LW is the only 3D program in the world that does this.
Does LW 10 still do it too?

Just remember all I wrote here for the day you begin exporting OBJ files for Z Brush or Mudbox or whatever other programs.
I know this is sort of off topic, but it's still along the same lines - LW is full of all these pleasant little gotcha's. ;)

And this one still gets me from time to time. I usually remember I forgot to attach the UV map or maps to the surfaces right after exporting and closing Modeler. ;)
If you save a .lwo file though, the UV map will remain in the file, even if it's not attached to anything, so you can always go back and redo it.

Matt
04-23-2011, 05:59 AM
Not had ANY of these problems, ever, not sure what you're doing wrong here.

Maxx
04-23-2011, 06:47 AM
I see. So changing it from frame 10 to 20 will actually copy it, meaning clone it? I would have thought it would move the key frame form 10 to 20. So the enter key has nothing to do with actual animating key framing?
Not exactly, but close. LW isn't cloning anything, it's simply assigning the same position, rotation, and scale values from frame 10 into frame 20. Now if you move the object at - say - frame 15, create a new keyframe there and scrub the timeline, you'll see your object start at position 'a' (frame 10), animate through position 'b' (frame 15), then return to position 'a' (frame 20). Hope that makes sense.

Yeah, it is named a little strange. But do I have to change or click on anything like X,Y,Z etc or I just have to hit OK?
By allowing you to choose the effected channels on the Create Keyframe pop-up, LW is giving you the option of keeping your graph editor cleaner. Going back to the example above, if your only change to your object on frame 15 is to move the object up (y-axis), there's no need to create the keyframe for movement on the x or z axes. There's nothing wrong with creating the keyframes on those axes, but your graph editor window can become cluttered and more difficult to work with if it's overloaded with unnecessary keyframes.

One thing about the saving of objects and scenes - I don't know if you're working with the Hub enabled or not, but sometimes hiccups can happen. Let's say you've disabled the Hub. Now, you create an object in Modeler and save it, then minimize Modeler (without closing the object file) and load the object into Layout. In Layout, you texture the object and save it. Close the scene, then close Modeler. Modeler will ask if you want to save the object, and you click "Save" - well, you've just written over your textured object (from Layout) with your untextured object (from Modeler).

The two-program approach is probably the biggest part of the learning curve for those new to LightWave, though once you get used to it, you'll find yourself sailing through the workflow without even thinking about it. I've got "Save Scene" mapped to ctrl+s and "Save All Objects" mapped to shift+s in Layout (it works for my mind) and every time I make a major change, my fingers naturally hit both combinations, one after the other. I don't even think about it anymore.

There are some excellent tutorials around the Interwebs for beginners with Lightwave, as well as hours of excellent videos somewhere around the NT site by William Vaughn - I highly recommend checking some of these out. If you can get your hands on any of the "Inside Lightwave" books by Dan Ablan ("Inside Lightwave 10" just shipped from Amazon today), those are a newbie's best friend. And of course, keep asking here.

Pixelight
04-23-2011, 11:22 AM
Just wait until the first time that you export a .obj file and import it into some other program to paint or texture...

Oops, where's my UV map? Oh I see, it never got saved with the OBJ file because you have to manually tell Modeler to save the UV map with the .obj file.


Not like there's an option box at export time though asking if you want to save the UV map. No, that would be too simple and we pros prefer challenges to keep us on our toes...
So you have to make sure that your UV map is applied to each surface in the surface editor prior to exporting OBJ or else it won't get sent out with an obj export.

Most.Annoying."Feature".Ever... And LW is the only 3D program in the world that does this.
Does LW 10 still do it too?

Just remember all I wrote here for the day you begin exporting OBJ files for Z Brush or Mudbox or whatever other programs.
I know this is sort of off topic, but it's still along the same lines - LW is full of all these pleasant little gotcha's. ;)

And this one still gets me from time to time. I usually remember I forgot to attach the UV map or maps to the surfaces right after exporting and closing Modeler. ;)
If you save a .lwo file though, the UV map will remain in the file, even if it's not attached to anything, so you can always go back and redo it.

Hey, thanks for the heads up. I will most definitely keep this in mind.
I wonder why LW is so full of peculiarities? Is this the old thinking of being a pro-application? Being necessarily complex to use? I think today's mindset has changed a bit. The easier to use the more creative you can be. I can barely be creative having to worry about all the little things a 21st century program should be taking care of for me.
Thanks again for the info.

caesar
04-23-2011, 11:36 AM
Not had ANY of these problems, ever, not sure what you're doing wrong here.

Hehehe me too. LW is very easy to learn, but it'll take some time. Try SideFXHoudini a little...

Pixelight
04-23-2011, 11:38 AM
hit double 'Enter' to set a keyframe.

What you mean by this is one enter brings up the panel and the second enter confirms it right? Or will it bring up a different panel when you hit double enter? If so, it didn't here.

nickdigital
04-23-2011, 11:42 AM
What you mean by this is one enter brings up the panel and the second enter confirms it right? Or will it bring up a different panel when you hit double enter? If so, it didn't here.

Yes.
1. [Enter] to bring up the panel
2. Either leave the settings as-is or change them.
3. [Enter] to apply.

Just so we're on the same page, the key everyone is talking about is the carriage return key. The one above the right side Shift key.

Pixelight
04-23-2011, 11:49 AM
Thanks for the keyframing tips.



One thing about the saving of objects and scenes - I don't know if you're working with the Hub enabled or not,

Didn't even know you could deactivate the hub. I thought LW needed it in order to work. I guess having it always enabled is the way to go? How do I make sure it's enabled?


but sometimes hiccups can happen. Let's say you've disabled the Hub. Now, you create an object in Modeler and save it, then minimize Modeler (without closing the object file) and load the object into Layout. In Layout, you texture the object and save it. Close the scene, then close Modeler. Modeler will ask if you want to save the object, and you click "Save" - well, you've just written over your textured object (from Layout) with your untextured object (from Modeler).

Aha. One more of miss Lightwave's eccentricities. Thanks for the heads up.


The two-program approach is probably the biggest part of the learning curve for those new to LightWave, though once you get used to it, you'll find yourself sailing through the workflow without even thinking about it. I've got "Save Scene" mapped to ctrl+s and "Save All Objects" mapped to shift+s in Layout (it works for my mind) and every time I make a major change, my fingers naturally hit both combinations, one after the other. I don't even think about it anymore.

The 2 programs workflow is definitely something strange to say the least. I could have never imaged I would have to save separated parts of a project or that I would have to save objects before saving scenes. Not in a million years I could have guessed that.


There are some excellent tutorials around the Interwebs for beginners with Lightwave, as well as hours of excellent videos somewhere around the NT site by William Vaughn - I highly recommend checking some of these out. If you can get your hands on any of the "Inside Lightwave" books by Dan Ablan ("Inside Lightwave 10" just shipped from Amazon today), those are a newbie's best friend. And of course, keep asking here.

Yeah, I'm already going through the videos on NT's website and will definitely order Dan's book if I decide to stick with Lightwave. For the moment I'm running the trial version to test the waters and see if LW is the program for me. My aim is VFX.

Thanks for the help.

Pixelight
04-23-2011, 11:54 AM
Yes.
1. [Enter] to bring up the panel
2. Either leave the settings as-is or change them.
3. [Enter] to apply.

Just so we're on the same page, the key everyone is talking about is the carriage return key. The one above the right side Shift key.

Thanks.

nickdigital
04-23-2011, 11:56 AM
Didn't even know you could deactivate the hub. I thought LW needed it in order to work. I guess having it always enabled is the way to go? How do I make sure it's enabled?


If you're on a PC you should see a LW icon in the system tray. I'm not sure what the equivalent on a Mac is.

If you want to disable the hub, you add the flag "-0" to your shortcut string in the shortcut properties. So the string should look something like this:

(I'm typing this off the top of my head so it might not be 100% accurate but you should get the idea.)
"C:\Program Files\NewTek\LightWave10.0\bin\Layout.exe" -0

Layout and Modeler will work slightly faster with the Hub disabled since the two apps aren't talking to each other as you're working. But you will loose that live updating as you go back and forth between the two apps.

Pixelight
04-23-2011, 12:11 PM
If you're on a PC you should see a LW icon in the system tray. I'm not sure what the equivalent on a Mac is.

If you want to disable the hub, you add the flag "-0" to your shortcut string in the shortcut properties. So the string should look something like this:

(I'm typing this off the top of my head so it might not be 100% accurate but you should get the idea.)
"C:\Program Files\NewTek\LightWave10.0\bin\Layout.exe" -0

Layout and Modeler will work slightly faster with the Hub disabled since the two apps aren't talking to each other as you're working. But you will loose that live updating as you go back and forth between the two apps.

I'm on Windows 7. I see hub if I click on my start menu and it is highlighted. But this is the only place I see it. It's not in the taskbar. Is it enabled? I thought it would be an option somewhere in properties.

If it will make it only slightly faster I prefer to leave the hub enabled to avoid problems. One less thing to worry about.

chco2
04-23-2011, 12:43 PM
Just wanted to comment on the peculiarities of Lightwave as you've nicely put :)
Think of them as positives. It actually gives you more flexibility in the long run. Been through several 3D packages myself and I keep turning back to lightwave. Not just because I like the renderer very much, but also the intuitive gui. I find it to one of the biggest plus on Lightwave.
If core brings modeler and layout together I wouldn't mind, but if it didn't I would most likely prefer that.

Good luck with your project!

shrox
04-23-2011, 02:28 PM
Like someone said before, don't try to apply the rules of one software package to another. They are different.

Pixelight
04-23-2011, 02:36 PM
Yeah, I have figured that much out by now. ;)

shrox
04-23-2011, 02:37 PM
Yeah, I have figured that much out by now. ;)

One day you'll be saying "oh, this so easy! I love it!"

Pixelight
04-23-2011, 03:43 PM
One day you'll be saying "oh, this so easy! I love it!"

Definitely looking forward to that! :thumbsup:

IMI
05-02-2011, 06:01 AM
Hey, thanks for the heads up. I will most definitely keep this in mind.
I wonder why LW is so full of peculiarities? Is this the old thinking of being a pro-application? Being necessarily complex to use? I think today's mindset has changed a bit. The easier to use the more creative you can be. I can barely be creative having to worry about all the little things a 21st century program should be taking care of for me.
Thanks again for the info.

I never noticed the email I got from this thread.
But since you had quoted me when writing the above in reference to what I said about UV maps and OBJ files and Modeler, I'll go ahead and answer.
LW really isn't that complex to use, not really. Thinking back to when I was a beginner with it, it seemed like a whole new world, compared to the simple apps I had been using before LW.

But seriously, if you want to to see unnecessarily complex, grab a demo of 3ds max or Maya. The 30 day demo is about enough time to figure out how to create a sphere and make a reflective render with it. And if you're adventurous enough, You might get lucky and learn how to animate it across a few grid lines in a linear motion. ;)

But while those programs are great examples of complexity and very steep learning curves, to say they're *unnecessarily* complex wouldn't really be accurate. Some people may say yes in some areas they are, while others would disagree, so it's a matter of opinion, really. But nobody disagrees that they are very complex.

Lightwave, on the other hand, is also a very complex program. There are things you can do with it and tools in it that you might not realize for years, but *not* knowing about them won't hurt you until you have a need for something but don't know how to do it. And as it turns out, there's usually a way to go about it and get it done.

But for most regular types of tasks- modeling, animating, rendering (as the slogan goes) are fairly straightforward, and far more straightforward than most of the other packages.
And honestly, while LW isn't what you'd call a beginner's package, it's probably the most intuitive and easiest to learn 3D program there is in its category. You can actually get something done with a 30 day demo of LW, even if you don't know jack going in, while 29 days into your Maya demo you might finally understand Hypershade and might be able to actually find some tool in 3ds max without consulting the manual. ;)

I don't see any shift from the more complex to the simpler these days. There is no real point-and-click rigging, for example. ;)