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hwamokp66
04-22-2011, 09:21 AM
So i recently started using lightwave 10. I'm planning to major in 3D animation in college next year so I wanted to try out some of the different programs we use. With the help of google and an old lightwave 7 book, i created some swords. For the past week, i have been trying to figure out how to color them in. I thought that maybe you create the surface in another image editing program and import it in? I don't think you take a airbrush inside the layout and paint the sword like you would in a draw program. I looked at the some videos but they werent too specific on how to start off. I think what im trying to do is texturing? any help would be appreciated :D thanks!

Sekhar
04-22-2011, 09:39 AM
Did you check out the videos at http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77002?

hwamokp66
04-22-2011, 09:44 AM
yea i did but it didnt really explain step by step on texturing

I saw a video from cg too called texturing volume1 but i opened surface editor in layout and i tried to follow what he was doing in the vid but i can only select like one part of the sword istead of being able to draw a circle around the whole sword and selecting everything. Could you explain to me some basic steps for texturing after i load an object and open surface editor in layout? Thanks :D

4dartist
04-22-2011, 10:15 AM
To select everything, you can lasso around the entire sword (in polygon mode) with the right mouse button, but you have to do it in a viewport that is in 'wireframe' mode. If it's in textured Wire for example, lasso will only select the faces you can see, not faces hidden in the back.

Another trick for selecting polygons you want is to select one polygon of the part you want and hit ] Then modeler will select all the polygons connected to that part. Or shift-] that will grow your selection each time you hit it. Those are really nice ways to get the selection you want.

Once you have the parts selected you want a specific color/surface too, then hit 'q'. it will bring up the panel to assign it a new surface name. So maybe grab the blade and hit q. Then name it "steel". Then bring up the surface editor, and notice steel is listed. Now when you change that, any polygons with steel assigned, will be linked to that. So in that surface, make it gray, lower the diffuse, bring up specular, bring up gloss, a bit of reflection.

Once you have the blade colored and looking good, you can then move onto other parts.

A good way to texture is to get things started in modeler, by assigning surfaces to the polygons, making the colors and settings of the surface close to what you want, and then bring the object into layout and render it. Put a background in (so it will reflect something) and light it, and then you can better tweak your surfaces. It's hard to tweak the reflection in modeler because you can't see reflections in modeler! :)



You were right though, this process is called texturing. Surfacing works too. Coloring, not so much hehe. Textures usually refer to images you make in an image program and apply to the surfaces, like a logo you might want to put on your object, or a brick texture. But it's a loose term really.

hwamokp66
04-22-2011, 10:23 AM
first of all i want to tell you that after a week of frustrating over google for help, that was the best and most clear advice that i have gotten. I figured out how to put the image on the object on node editor. The only thing that i want to know is, how do i create an image thats the perfect size for the sword, and is there a way to like kind of make the 3D sword 2D so i can color it in lets say... photoshop and bring it back in? because i made a drawing of a sword in photoshop but its not "fitting" the 3D sword :D thanks sooo much

4dartist
04-22-2011, 10:46 AM
You bet.

As with anything there are a TON of ways to apply a texture to your model.

1. Project the texture using an axis or special projection type like cylidrical.
2. Wrap the texture using UV map/s.

You might as well start easy, projections in the Texture Editor (not node editor).

Just open your model in Modeler, than bring up the layer in the top right that has the part of the sword you want to apply this texture to. If it's all in one layer then don't worry about that.

Now.. Do you have photoshop? If so this is a really handy workflow. You need to get a picture of your wireframe out of modeler so you can make a texture for it and have it fit your model. So if you know how to take screen shots in your Mac or PC then you can just take a screen shot of that viewport. OR you can go to FILE>EXPORT>EXPORT POST ENCAPSULATED POSTSCRIPT (why they don't just say .eps I have no idea). When the panel comes up you can tell it to export just the viewport you want. Turn off 'draw grid'. Click export file and pick a spot, then hit ok. When you open this file in photoshop give it a decent resolution and open it. You should see your wireframes. Use these to help guide you on where you are painting for your model.

Next to bring your texture into modeler and apply it nicely. Save the image as a .jpg or .png. You can also use your .psd. Bring up the sword in modeler, bring up the surface editor, find the surface you want to have the image on, and figure out where to put it. If you want it to control the color, then click the T, for color. Now the texture editor should be up.

It defaults to 'Image Map', so just look down to Image and pick your image by hitting (load image) at the bottom of the pull down. Now this basically projects the image along an axis, and modeler has no idea how big or small to project it, so you need to tell it. First look in the viewports and figure out what axis you want to project your image. X Y or Z. Then click that in the texture editor. Then click 'Automatic Sizing' and it'll adjust the scale and position to make your image the same size as your object. Now if your image was cropped to have no blank space around the wireframes of the surface you are applying this too, it'll probably fit perfectly, if not, you make need to scale the projection up, just click the scale tab at the bottom and adjust it up.

This is made a lot easier if you are viewing your model in Textured Wire or Textured, that way you can see your texture being projected.

Once you get better, you can start changing the projection type from Planer to Cylindrical or other projections. Texturing a pop can would call for cylindrical, while texturing a stop sign would call for planer. Texturing a tree trunk wouldn't really call for either because it's so complicated so you'd have to use a harder technique called UV mapping.

Does that help any? Wow, that was long winded, it's hard to just write the process down, that's why video tutorials are so good.

The basic thing is.. you need to bring the texture in, pick a way to project it, and adjust the projection so it fits the polygons you are texturing.

Dexter2999
04-22-2011, 10:50 AM
You probably need to learn about UV maps.

Rabbitpenny
04-22-2011, 11:19 AM
I've been using LW for three years and I'm still the "Dumb Bunny". I chose LW not because of price...though price is great. I chose it because of the Forum. As witnessed by 4DArtist's freely offered efforts, the NT forum always gets an answer for you.

That said, I looked at your questions and it seemed to me that I learned those kind of Q/A from the start up videos. It took me a while. I studied and emulated each video in sequence, more or less. Gradually the basics of the work flow sunk in. If you're already modelling swords you may be ahead of some basic videos...but maybe not. You may be watching a basic video then something is demonstrated and you'll say in the privacy of your home: 'Oh crap, I'm so stupid'....Or maybe that's just me.

Also, I have heard mentioned on the Forum: Dan Ablan's video course if you want to spend the money.

Either way, there is no "self-education" in 3D. Once again I thank the Forum for their help.

04-22-2011, 11:48 AM
basic free UV mapping tutorial here.

http://simplylightwave.com/lightwave-tutorials/free-tutorials/

Dave :)

hwamokp66
04-22-2011, 12:07 PM
i selected the blade part of my sword and applied a texture to it but it applied it to the the whole sword... what am i doing wrong?
oh and thanks for all the help guys, i watched most of the tutorial videos on the lightwave website at least 5 times each but its just not as detailed as i wanted. i loved the detailed explanation benj thanks

Dexter2999
04-22-2011, 12:10 PM
.

hwamokp66
04-22-2011, 12:38 PM
4D artist you should make some tutorials, i would def watch them, you seem to be very resourceful and experienced with lightwave. If i project cylindrically, what am i doing different? because the exported file looks like just one view instead of the whole surface of the sword. The handle is a long cylinder so i think im going to have to figure out how to use the cylindrical. If i apply the texture i made with the exported file and project clyndrically then it would be stretched around the sword and look bad right? So if i was to do it correctly, i would have to make an image keeping in mind that the cylinder unwraps into a longer rectangle then what the exported file gave me? im so lost :D

Cryonic
04-22-2011, 02:13 PM
i selected the blade part of my sword and applied a texture to it but it applied it to the the whole sword... what am i doing wrong?
oh and thanks for all the help guys, i watched most of the tutorial videos on the lightwave website at least 5 times each but its just not as detailed as i wanted. i loved the detailed explanation benj thanks

To apply a surface to just one part of the object you have to create a unique surface name for that part. E.g. select all the polygons of the blade, hit q and call this surface Blade. Now when you go into surface editor and make changes to the 'Blade' surface it will only effect that part of the object. Each polygon can only belong to one surface.

4dartist
04-22-2011, 02:14 PM
i selected the blade part of my sword and applied a texture to it but it applied it to the the whole sword... what am i doing wrong?
oh and thanks for all the help guys, i watched most of the tutorial videos on the lightwave website at least 5 times each but its just not as detailed as i wanted. i loved the detailed explanation benj thanks

Well each polygon has a surface name associated with it. Every single one of them. If you are changing the color settings of just one surface name in the surface editor and the entire sword changes color then your entire sword is set to the same surface.

First thing you should do is go into polygon mode, select all polygons on the blade, hit q, name it "blade". Then select all the polygons on the hilt, and name that, "hilt". Now when you edit the surface name blade it won't be effecting the hilt, and visa versa. Same goes for applying a texture, when you click the T in the color channel on the 'blade' surface and apply a texture, it only applies it to polygons associated with 'blade'.

There is a handy box called the Statistics Panel, that can show you which polygons have which surface applied to them. You can bring it up by clicking, 'Statistics' at the bottom of modeler. Then, make sure you are in polygon mode, look for "Surf". Click that and you see all the surfaces that exist in the layer you have on up in the top right of modeler. Just pick one, and then click the plus sign and it'll auto select all polygons with that surface associated with it.

4dartist
04-22-2011, 02:36 PM
4D artist you should make some tutorials, i would def watch them, you seem to be very resourceful and experienced with lightwave.

Thanks. :) I really wish I could make time to do some tutorials, I've always liked teaching how to do things, but I use Lightwave for my full-time job and at the end of the day I like to go home and do my other hobbies so I just never do much lightwave on my own time. Once you get a handle on the basic workflow of Lightwave, I think you'll find the tutorials out there are going to really click and will help a lot.


If i project cylindrically, what am i doing different? because the exported file looks like just one view instead of the whole surface of the sword. The handle is a long cylinder so i think im going to have to figure out how to use the cylindrical. If i apply the texture i made with the exported file and project clyndrically then it would be stretched around the sword and look bad right? So if i was to do it correctly, i would have to make an image keeping in mind that the cylinder unwraps into a longer rectangle then what the exported file gave me? im so lost :D

You pretty much got it. Projections take your 2d square image and wraps it differently onto your object. Dan Alban books had a great example of what each projection type does showing you an object and a grid. Basically:

Planar projects as a flat image. Should work for your blade.

Cylindrical wraps your 2d image in a cylinder shape (with open top and bottom). Would work good for the hilt.

Spherical will do the same as cylindrical but it will pinch the top and bottom of the image together. When you purchase sky backgrounds online they are stretched on the tops so when you use spherical projection the pinch at the top fixes the stretch and it'll look perfect on a sphere object that is the sky.

Cubic actually projects the image 6 times, one from the top, bottom, and each side.

The documentation probably goes into more detail on those and the others. UV is special one that projects based on the UV map you made. Eventually learning to unwrap your model into a 2d map will be the most powerful way to get your image to lay on your model perfectly.


You are correct, capturing the wireframe and literally drawing on the wireframe works good for planar projections, not for cylindrical. For cylindrical, your image will get wrapped and the left and right sides of your image will meet up on the back side. So you can't have blank space around your image. Here is a good example of an image you could wrap cylindrically. LINK (http://www.royalhigh.edin.sch.uk/departments/departments/cdt/ahgc_1011/coke_can_tutorial/coke-label_flipped_1.jpg)

However... sometimes I do capture the wireframes to help guide me when making a cylindrical texture, here is how... Say you want to texture a leather wrap that goes down the handle (not the entire hilt). Export the side view of your handle or hilt, bring it into photoshop, then, crop the image to the top of the handle and the bottom, exactly where you want the texture top and bottom to be. Now you know how tall your hilt is and can draw your texture accordingly. Then instead of just drawing your texture over the wireframes you draw it across the entire image knowing it'll wrap around those polygons.

Lets say you were modeling a rocket that had 3 stages, you wanted to texture the entire rocket one with image wrapped around it. You had to put a logo right in the smack middle of each stage. If you started in photoshop and just put the logos in the middle of the image, you wouldn't know how high to put them, you'd have to trial and error it.. however if you imported the wires, and stretched the wireframe so the top of the rocket or section you were texturing was at the top and the bottom at the bottom, you now know were the centers are. Even though the entire image is getting wrapped and the wireframes are only in the middle it doesn't matter because you were only using them as a guide.

hwamokp66
04-26-2011, 10:01 AM
do any of you guys have surfaces already made? I'm having a hard time creating surfaces that look like steel or any type of metal. It's really hard to get the texture of stone too. And when i click render frame in layout my object is see through and it should be 100% opaque so i think its the settings on the render, how do i change that? thanks

4dartist
04-26-2011, 10:08 AM
do any of you guys have surfaces already made? I'm having a hard time creating surfaces that look like steel or any type of metal. It's really hard to get the texture of stone too. And when i click render frame in layout my object is see through and it should be 100% opaque so i think its the settings on the render, how do i change that? thanks

The fact that you see through your object means one or more of the surfaces on that object have a value greater than 0 in the transparency field. There are other places that you can put a value that will make your object 'see-through' too. Check in the object properties in layout, click the render tab, then look for 'object dissolve'. That should be at 0. The other places are a bit more obscure and I doubt they are causing a problem. (like adding a fresnel shader in the surface editor).

Also, you may get the illusion of an object being see through if the reflections are picking up your background color that your object doesn't naturally have making it look like you are seeing the background through it. If you are using reflections, they won't look natural until you start having things to reflect. Either use an image background or wait until your model is complex enough it can start reflecting it's self in places, then your eye will read them as reflections.

There are places online you can find pre-set surfaces. Lightwave has some already too, if you hit 's' in the surface editor I think it brings up the presets. I'm not sure where to find it other than that, check the manual.

Setting up lights is a huge part of making surfaces look good too. Glad to hear you are making some progress.