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View Full Version : What compositing applications do you use with LW ?



ACross
04-22-2011, 08:40 AM
All,

We are always looking at things to try to better understand what our customers need and so I just wanted to post a quick survey to see what compositors you are regularly using with LightWave.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Andrew

axis3d_work
04-22-2011, 08:51 AM
It would be great to include something like EXR trader in Lightwave. The ability to render a layered exr file with raw, diffuse, spec, etc. is very valuable and is an excellent way to work in Nuke.

OnlineRender
04-22-2011, 09:44 AM
AE ,I would love to see decent tracking export from LW - AE , speak with Petter aka MentalFish , he has written some nice scripts which co-inside with AE

3DGFXStudios
04-22-2011, 09:48 AM
We use exr trader with fusion which also works great! However we are switching to nuke. Good to hear that that's also working fine.

geo_n
04-22-2011, 10:18 AM
Japan is dominated by ae probably because of excellent japanese documentation, loyalty to apple hardware and ae is capable of motion graphics and good enough compositor. Adobe collection is also cheaper than most stand alone comp app.

firstsingle
04-22-2011, 10:34 AM
Still using, 'Shake' and now I'm finally opening up 'Motion'.

Lewis
04-22-2011, 10:36 AM
AE for me.

Markc
04-22-2011, 10:36 AM
I'm using Shake with exrTrader.
It will be interesting to see what happens to Motion in the new version of Final Cut Studio?

Dexter2999
04-22-2011, 10:43 AM
AE ,I would love to see decent tracking export from LW - AE , speak with Petter aka MentalFish , he has written some nice scripts which co-inside with AE

Both ways please. People want to be able to bring AE cameras into LW as well.

nickdigital
04-22-2011, 10:46 AM
We should be able to vote for more than one. I selected DF but AE is our primary app. I thought I could vote for both.

vector
04-22-2011, 11:14 AM
AEE here

Vector

Greenlaw
04-22-2011, 11:17 AM
I use Fusion. I used to use AE but that was 10 years ago, and I made the switch because Fusion is what we use in the Box. At first I found the nodal system a bit daunting but I quickly realized how efficient it was and I really have not missed AE...much. :p

Fusion is compatible with a lot of AE plug-ins so I can still use my favorites (mainly Re:Vision FX stuff.) That said, I'm thinking of getting a new license of AE to supplement Fusion anyway because there exists a handful of nice 3D plug-ins for AE that I'd like to use that have no equivalent in Fusion and are incompatible with Fusion.

Also, while I think Fusion is a better compositing program, I think AE is still a better choice for motion graphics, which I'm asked to do from time to time. (Currently I use Lightwave for most of our motion graphics elements; the graphics in our Crackdown 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tnnhj0rBZIg) trailer is a fairly recent example.)

As for Lightwave image savers, we use a proprietary saver in the Box, but I like to use exrTrader at home for my own projects. This along with shaderMeister is an excellent combo for compositers.

G.

Edit: If you really want to help compositers, Lightwave needs some kind of layering system. I know there are a few good third party systems out there like Janus, but compositing is such an essential part of cg that a decent 'built-in' layering system in any 3D program should be expected.

Also, thanks for asking for feedback! I think it's awesome that Newtek is actively asking users what they want. :thumbsup:

realgray
04-22-2011, 08:05 PM
as much integration as possible with AE and I'll be a happy camper

Dexter2999
04-22-2011, 08:15 PM
I think ultimately being able to go to/from any compositing app is the end goal.
For the high end compositing apps like Nuke, Fusion, Flame (as if AutoDesk would allow that) would benefit the professional pipelines and perhaps gain traction.

However I still think that there are far more AE users currently because as LW is a more affordable 3D app, so is AE the more affordable compositing app. Using this as a basis for reason I think the AE workflow would benefit the majority of the current Newtek user demographic.

realgray
04-22-2011, 08:32 PM
I've always wondered why so many LW artists use Fusion. No offense but I've been under the impression that Nuke was fairly running away with it.(ILM,DD, Weta, Zoic) Not trying to start a war and perhaps I'm wrong :)

caesar
04-22-2011, 09:21 PM
Apple Motion

Dexter2999
04-23-2011, 12:15 AM
I've always wondered why so many LW artists use Fusion. No offense but I've been under the impression that Nuke was fairly running away with it.(ILM,DD, Weta, Zoic) Not trying to start a war and perhaps I'm wrong :)

In Hollywood and in a good portion NUKE does seem to be running away with things. But I remember an article last year (maybe before) about a company that has like nine offices around the world, Prime Focus, bought like 1000 seats of Fusion for their offices in India. Also, mentioned in news releases on the eyeon site that Blur Studios uses Fusion. Another article mentions it being used on AVATAR.

But I'd rather see The Foundry run away with things than have Autodesk Flame continue it's domination of yet another facet of the industry. As I remember, Discreet pretty much had a choke hold on the industry before Autodesk bought them out.

artstorm
04-23-2011, 02:04 AM
I've always wondered why so many LW artists use Fusion. No offense but I've been under the impression that Nuke was fairly running away with it.(ILM,DD, Weta, Zoic) Not trying to start a war and perhaps I'm wrong :)

Well, I started using Fusion when NewTek bundled it (DFX+) with a LightWave update years ago. I guess many LW users got into Fusion at that point.

These days I primarily use After Effects though and I've not been maintaining my Fusion license for a long time.

raw-m
04-23-2011, 03:08 AM
I have more of a motion graphics approach to 3d so it's AE for me. I stuck with LightWave while seeing a whole lot of people jump to C4d, primarily for it's C4d-AE integration. I'd love to see some additional workflow features between LW and AE, multipasses, quickly getting object co-ordinates/keyframes from one to the other (and back again - tie AE to the HUB?!). There's some really useful 3rd party stuff out there but something native to LW with a few additional tricks would be very welcome.

I know there is quite a few in my position and motion graphics is an ever increasing sector where NT could benefit by making much greater inroads - ie, can't do much without DPkit at the moment!

zarti
04-23-2011, 08:30 AM
Fu !

+ another 1 compositing enviro included in my main 3D-app ( for much greater interoperability with my 3D scenes , textures , etc . ... )



.cheers

Larry_g1s
04-23-2011, 08:58 AM
Use and enjoy Adobe After Effects. :)
I like the integration between it and the other Adobe products.

Andy Meyer
04-23-2011, 09:58 AM
LightWave EXR -> Adobe AE

robertoortiz
04-23-2011, 10:10 AM
I work for a design shop that only uses Adobe products.
We get a lot of mileage from AE.

Red_Oddity
04-23-2011, 10:16 AM
Excactly what is it LW can't do in combination with compositing apps?

Fusion and Nuke have zero problems with exporting and importing EXR sequences and FBX/OBJ scenes (and a motion path importer exporter is whipped up in any scripting language in no time), for some reason it always seems AE is the odd one out (but that's Adobe being Adobe), though the Javascripting engine for AE seems to work reasonably well for what we do, took a couple of ours to figure out how it works, but scripting is not much of a problem (took a couple of hours to write a XML exporter so Flash could use AEs world position data of elements)

(Man, that's one wall of text, but i'm lazy today, so there :p )

Red_Oddity
04-23-2011, 10:17 AM
Oh, and yes, LW needs a good Layer system, but Core is going to fix that, right *sniggers behind hand*

MentalFish
04-23-2011, 10:22 AM
Both ways please. People want to be able to bring AE cameras into LW as well.

Here you go: http://aenhancers.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=991
Not done by me, but still good :thumbsup:

Dexter2999
04-23-2011, 11:01 AM
Here you go: http://aenhancers.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=991
Not done by me, but still good :thumbsup:

Thanks for that. I appreciate it and the work done by you and others. A big part of LW's functionality comes in the form of plugs from the user base and third party.

My concern however is that since Newtek isn't the source of these things that if they ever get "broken" with an update or rewrite then it falls to the author to fix it rather than to Newtek.

There are certain things that are important enough that Newtek needs to "take ownership" of them so they will be guaranteed to be available to the professional users out of the box and detailed in their documentation.

MentalFish
04-23-2011, 11:04 AM
Thanks for that. I appreciate it and the work done by you and others. A big part of LW's functionality comes in the form of plugs from the user base and third party.

My concern however is that since Newtek isn't the source of these things that if they ever get "broken" with an update or rewrite then it falls to the author to fix it rather than to Newtek.

There are certain things that are important enough that Newtek needs to "take ownership" of them so they will be guaranteed to be available to the professional users.

I agree, as an intermediate solution, all the scripts I have created are uncompiled and anyone should feel free to grab them, alter them and share with the world.

Best would be that a NT programmer takes a look at them and make it a part of LightWave as you suggests.

Also, in terms of compositing focused tools, make any additions to LW as application agnostic as possible, so it doesn't become only Fusion or AE specific. Go for easy to set up render passes and buffers (buy out ExrTrader), with a couple of animation import/export scripts for both LW and the other apps. Don't just create IO for LW, why not create a LWS reader for AE for instance?

thomascheng
04-23-2011, 11:18 AM
I've used Fusion in the last 3 studios that I've worked in, so i don't think it is going anywhere. I've also use AE and Nuke, but Fusion is my preferred app.

I would love to see LW integrated better into the Fusion 3D environment. e.g. - Create Fusion nodes that support lightwave texture nodes. That way I can save out the node tree from LW and use it in a LW shader node in Fusion. Compositiors can easily make their final tweaks directly in the scene.

THIBAULT
04-23-2011, 11:30 AM
AE too

kosmodave
04-23-2011, 02:22 PM
AE here as well, the Adobe Masters collection was just too well priced against a single seat of Fusion or Nuke that it was a no brainer for me. Having said that I would love to have a seat of Fusion alas as previously happened, the Eyeon discount offer has come at a time when I don't have the spare cash. :(

Dave

Cageman
04-23-2011, 02:53 PM
We use both Nuke and Fusion with LW. But as Greenlaw mentioned, LW really needs a built in pass management system. I can understand that it would be hard to shoehorn something into LW classic, and that it would take alot of time to do so. One thing that NT could do is to get the developer of Janus onboard and make it bundled with LW. It is, by far, the most extensive tool for renderpass management ever developed for LW. It is actually a lot more powerful than what comes with Maya renderlayers, and easier to use... that said, it has some extremely advanced features regarding all sorts of things... just look at the documentation! (http://faulknermano.com/janus/docs/online/index.html) :)

We also use exrTrader (http://www.db-w.com/products/exrtrader/about) for the outputs, which is really, really nice.

:)

paulhart
04-23-2011, 10:29 PM
I still have Fusion, but couldn't afford the ongoing upgrades, still a sweet piece of kit.... but, moving on... for a similar pipeline, nodes and all, Blender 2.57 is excellent and getting better all the time!! AE is fine, different process and flow and a new one is Lightworks, (http://lightworksbeta.com/) which is Open Source, beta and won an award for it's contribution to the creation of "The King's Speech," and Synapse (http://code.google.com/p/vexx/) a Node Based Compositor

moussepipi2000
04-23-2011, 10:35 PM
I choosed ae but i prefer node base compositor

calilifestyle
04-23-2011, 10:44 PM
I been trying to use a node base comp tool called Synapse. it free right now. I haven't had as much time as i like. It does seem sweet.

Greenlaw
04-23-2011, 11:51 PM
Speaking of Janus, is this plug-in no longer available? I went to the website to request a trial but when I clicked on the [Request a Trial] button I get a 404 error. Then I tried to send an email directly to the developer but my email was bounced back.

If Janus is indeed gone, this is a real loss for LW users. :(

G.

Dexter2999
04-24-2011, 12:28 AM
I don't think it's gone. Maybe just an HTML coding error? The 404 error is a page with his email, "http://faulknermano.com/janus/[email protected]"
The product is still in the store. I'd say just send an email to "[email protected]"

Greenlaw
04-24-2011, 01:32 AM
I'd say just send an email to "[email protected]"
That's what I mean, this email address bounces back.

I'll just wait a bit; I don't need it immediately but probably will in the near future.

G.

Greenlaw
04-24-2011, 01:54 AM
Good idea! I never think to use PM. Thanks for suggesting it. :)

G.

cresshead
04-24-2011, 01:55 AM
i pressed 'other' as i use autodesk combustion and autodesk composite

Greenlaw
04-24-2011, 02:02 AM
i pressed 'other' as i use autodesk combustion and autodesk composite
Oh, so you're the guy...

(Just kidding. I mean absolutely nothing by that.) :)

G

cresshead
04-24-2011, 06:00 AM
Oh, so you're the guy...

(Just kidding. I mean absolutely nothing by that.) :)

G
:cat:


that's me!:hey:

Cageman
04-24-2011, 06:23 AM
Speaking of Janus, is this plug-in no longer available? I went to the website to request a trial but when I clicked on the [Request a Trial] button I get a 404 error. Then I tried to send an email directly to the developer but my email was bounced back.

If Janus is indeed gone, this is a real loss for LW users. :(

G.

His new site still suffer from child deseases. :D

Janus is very much ALIVE. Lernie has worked on a version for LW10 and also added new features etc. The most recent version that I have access to (not released to general public yet) has an initial implementation that allows one to add this RMSB exporter (http://www.richardnichols.net/rsmbexport/) to a renderpass (as in... when you break out the beauty, the mvectors are outputed as well).

That said, most image filter or pixel filter plugins can be accessed by Janus, but it requiers one to use a tool in Janus to scan what plugins are loaded. Once that is done, you can create presets to apply a specific imagefilter to a specific renderpass. It works like an API. Extremely flexible, but, alas, these things are quite advanced, but man... Lernie really have thought Janus through on a level I never understood until recently.

EDIT: Link has been corrected regarding requesting a Trial version of Janus! (lernie had put the wrong email adress in there). :)

Greenlaw
04-24-2011, 09:36 AM
Ah, thanks for clearing this up! :)

hydroclops
04-24-2011, 09:38 AM
I think ultimately being able to go to/from any compositing app is the end goal.
For the high end compositing apps like Nuke, Fusion, Flame (as if AutoDesk would allow that) would benefit the professional pipelines and perhaps gain traction.

However I still think that there are far more AE users currently because as LW is a more affordable 3D app, so is AE the more affordable compositing app. Using this as a basis for reason I think the AE workflow would benefit the majority of the current Newtek user demographic.

I added the bold to the above. As a hobbyist I'm in this camp for sure. I hope to figure out a pipeline using LW, AE, The newly implemented linear tools in LW, color management in AE, EXRtrader, a hardware monitor calibrator, and whatever else I'd need for two things:

1) compositing LW into live action
2) creating the final "looks" for footage.

I'd absolutely pay to learn how to set this up.

mch
04-24-2011, 04:06 PM
AE since version 3.1 ;-)

It's still very flexible and versatile.

I used it very much with Cineon / dpx files from film scanners in 2k and 4k on feature film projects.

With Lightwave 10 I now want to try multiple layers and buffers with OpenEXR Export (Lightwolfs EXRTrader) for a 3D short film project.

So - built in support for Multi-Layer-OpenEXR would be welcome.
Also for nuke and others as well.

A render setup for choosing different elements for foreground and background objects for separate renders as compositing parts would also be very helpful.

Thanks for asking ;-]

Regards,

Marcus

EXOSOUL
04-25-2011, 12:25 AM
Nuke and Fusion here.. I prefer Nuke to any other.. haven't used After Effects for compositing in years.. not that is a bad app, but job wise I haven't being at a studio that works with it. I like AE for motion graphics, since is extremely good with that kind of work.. for major comps I rather use Nuke, or Fusion.. the nodes are easier to understand for me when having big comps..

And Yes.. LW needs a better system to break out passes..

Bookman
04-25-2011, 02:17 AM
NUKE AE should be primary concerns for any direction for NT. many studios still use fusion but if your aiming towards higher end the foundry is in a great position with its relationship with weta. AE is still popular and accessible so that is important too. Fusion just seems to be lacking these days.

FYI I use all 3 apps but Nuke is my preferred app.

Dexter2999
04-25-2011, 02:49 PM
Right now, I'm thinking packaging Janus and EXRTrader with LW10 would have been a really attractive promotion. Especially as CORE wasn't ready.

It would have shown that LW has a serious solution for fitting into professional pipelines.

MDSPECIFIC
04-25-2011, 03:04 PM
Adobe Production Premium => After Effects

calilifestyle
04-25-2011, 03:26 PM
http://janus.faulknermano.com/ it's still there. btw he did an update the week to add support for lw10.

Lor
04-25-2011, 04:10 PM
I used to use Fusion all the time. Now Nuke. Nuke is pretty amazing.

lor

dwburman
04-25-2011, 10:52 PM
I haven't been doing much compositing lately, but I primarily use AE & Shake. I just got DFX+4 (Lightwave bundle) running again on my secondary workstation, so I might be using that again soon. I'd love to upgrade to Fusion 6.2, but there are other things the $ needs to go to right now.

Red_Oddity
04-26-2011, 03:44 AM
Does the Fusion discount still count? (i thought it would be for the entire month of April, $1000 USD is an incredible deal for Fu 6.2)

geo_n
04-26-2011, 04:06 AM
Right now, I'm thinking packaging Janus and EXRTrader with LW10 would have been a really attractive promotion. Especially as CORE wasn't ready.

It would have shown that LW has a serious solution for fitting into professional pipelines.

Passport is free now and it seems easier to use imho. Update that for lw 10 and lightwave 9.6.1.
I know Janus is extremely powerful but I find it difficult to use. There's a wizard I know but I just can't get my head around it even watching cagemans vids with terms like BTY, etc.
The pass manager of blender, c4d and 3dmax are easier to understand,straightforward and seems much more integrated and not alien to the software its in. Plus they all have good connection to AE :D

Verlon
05-03-2011, 11:02 PM
missed this, but have been using "other" in Visionlab Studio from FX home.

I *might* be switching to AE soon though, if I can avoid any other expenses long enough to get to it.

Serling
05-03-2011, 11:45 PM
I use both Combustion and AE for compositing with Lightwave, depending on the job.