View Full Version : VT3 AVI wrapper and Vegas and DVD Arch

10-03-2003, 11:44 AM
I have VT3 with the upgrade patch installed. When using the avi wrapper file with either Sony Vegas 4.0d or Sony DVD Architect 1.0c, the audio file is not handled. In Vegas, it brings in about 2 seconds of corrupted audio, instead of the about 90 seconds of the project. In DVD Architect, the audio is not brought in at all. The avi wrapper file plays fine in the Win2000 Serv Pack 4 Media Player with DirectX 9.0b installed. If I render the project as a full avi file, both Vegas and Architect find the full audio. It is too bad Architect is not working with the avi wrapper because VT-Edit markers are brought into the project, but they are not there in the full rendered avi file.


Paul Lara
10-03-2003, 04:59 PM
Some applications don't want to import compressed audio, which is what is created by the AVI wrapper.

Simply load your VT project, and render out an audio-ONLY project as uncompressed wav, and load that in with the wrapped project.

10-03-2003, 10:01 PM

You've got the "some programs don't want to import..." right. I tried to import this avi wrapper project into Premiere 6.5 and it immediately crashes Premiere. I will try your suggestion tomorrow with DVD Architect...


10-04-2003, 11:02 AM

I'm having probelms following your instructions. In VT-Edit, I selected the audio track and rendered it as an uncompressed .wav file. I then deleted the audio track and saved the project as an avi wrapper. When I go into DVD Architect, it says the avi wrapper has a stereo audio track (even though I deleted it). There is no way I can then load a separate audio file to be associated with the avi wrapper file. The separate audio is treated as separate "media" to be selected in the DVD independent of the avi wrapper.


10-04-2003, 11:47 AM

I got the separate audio file linked to the video avi wrapper file in DVD Architect. I simply dragged and dropped the .wav onto the .avi in the DVD Arch timelline. But the two do not seem to be exactly insynch... not good. Well, I'm not sure the workflow of saving the timeline markers from VT-Edit is worth it. Also, the Main Concept MPEG CODEC in DVD Architect is inferior to TMPGEnc. Unfortunately, DVD Architect will not accept the .m2v MPEG2 output from TMPGEnc, so this also argues against trying to make the avi wrapper work with DVD Arch.


10-04-2003, 04:44 PM
Although Sony don't support other sources of MPEG-2 in their cop out clause. The use of TMPGEnc via the VT project plug-in should be OK if convoluted for DVD Architect 1.0.

TMPGEnc can create a program file stream (.mpg) or an elemental (.m2v). Indeed, without re-rendering, the TMPGEnc tools section can mux a .m2v into a .MPG without actually applying an audio file - which is ideal for DVDA. Sonic Foundry had their reasons for not going the industry standard .m2v route for direct import - I suppose!

If compressed audio is a problem, the VFAPI reader might be as straightforward but disc space saving as rendering out fully from VT.

You need the VFAPI reader codec installed (comes with TMPGEnc). Stick the VT-Edit project on the input "bus" of TMPGEnc but do no encoding. Save the project (.tpr) and use this as a source file in TMPGEnc's companion VFAPIConv.exe (or similarly named tool). Select audio (to decomp your VT audio) which might in fact render into the output .AVI (so it will be a video sign post file but contain a true constituent PCM audio stream) . Bung this into DVDA or Vegas4... ?

VirtualDub also has a frameserving capability, and like TMPGEnc, has a good input support capability and priority panel for adjusting which engine is used (VfW, directshow, etc).

The hoop jumping should be a small price to pay for not having to build those disc files. Your opinion might vary...

10-06-2003, 01:52 PM
Thanks for the input:

At the Safe Harbor VT discussion board I got info on how to configure TMPGEnc to create a .mpg file for the mpeg-2 output. I was able to bring this into DVDA. So TMPGEnc and DVDA work fine together.

In my prior post I said it seemed like the audio was out of synch when I pasted it into the video track. However, when I actually burned the DVD, the A/V synch was fine. However, there was a bigger problem I wasn't able to find a solution to. When you allow DVDA to create the MPG-2 file, it provides only limited acess to mpeg-2 setup paremeters. I could only find bit rate. As the default, DVDA used lower field first, but this project is upper field first, so the motion and transitions were not good. The workflow is really to use Vegas (or some other product) to create the mpeg-2 before using DVDA.


10-06-2003, 08:15 PM
Update: TMPGEnc and DVDA are not yet working. I brought the TMPGEnc .mpg (mpg-2) file into DVDA and I built menus to jump to specific scenes. I could test the menus in DVDA's Preview mode and they all work. After I burned a DVD, I can select to play the entire movie and it works great, but if I select a particular scene, the audio for the scene plays but no video. If I try to play the DVD in my computer, Power DVD locks up.


10-07-2003, 07:22 PM
To make a very long story short, the DVD authored in DVD Architect via a TMPGEnc mpeg2 file works fine when played in other DVD players. Selecting menu options plays both audio and video. Summary: did not work on Toshiba SD-K610 DVD player, but works on a Samsung and a CyberHome CH-DVD300 (under $50). The results were for writing to both DVD-RW (Memorex 1X discs) and DVD-R (Printco 1X).


10-08-2003, 09:38 AM
I guess no authoring tool will guarantee playback in all devices even if the disc is recognised as a DVD etc. DVDA is a bit of a special case of being awkward from a compatibility point of view. Burning from files using say Nero can help, as can burning a DVD-ROM book type instead of DVD-Video. YMMV.

Many Toshiba and older Samsung also have problems but not too many other manufacturers have problems since DVDA1.0b.

The error in the field dominance via TMPGEnc is quite possibly being introduced by your import to TMPGEnc John. ie earlier than the affect of DVDA. I recommend you retry this aspect.

You can check for this by doing Eugene's de-interlacing test in TMPGEnc and scrubbing to confirm that the 486 lines are being handled correctly. That will help identify if DVDA is going ahead blindly or if the file has been encoded with the misplaced fields.

Either way, using the interlaced mode and altering the field dominance setting of TMPGEnc to suit the media, or that particular session (!) might be your ideal option to import into DVDA from.

The PC playback compat. problem is well known and testing how the file mode of PowerDVD works can be useful on a prepared file set instead of burning straight away.

Indeed with Win2k etc, and having PowerDVD loaded should allow M$'s dvdplay.exe program to launch which definitely has a file/directory mode - to further check that your disc isn't being broken by the built-in DVDA burning software I guess you are using?

I personally faddled with DVDLab (demo is pretty thorough) with TMPGEnc and Vegas4 encoded sources and although also not a Sonic Solutions imitator, it gave me a slightly different incompatibility quotient.

DVDA isn't a bad purchase from the AC3 5.1 capability it brings as a plug-in for Vegas to use but the program currently is a source of some frustration. I see it as a free addition to the AC3 encoder, but then I'm mostly kidding myself and my credit card purchase. Encore might be something to consider - especially if a trial version is offered soon. Buying that Pyro Platinum bundle is a long term option unless you wait for Encore2 etc.

M$ aim to have DVD Authoring licked too - a bit like they did with FrontPage and then with Java I suppose. All given away "free" with the next OS!

On the earlier audio trouble:
I'd recommend bringing the WAV across from VT 3 by rendering the WAV from there. Otherwise make an m2v+WAV with TMPGEnc and have Vegas just do the audio thing to AC3 2.0.

Good luck with your development of this workflow John.

Pete Draves
10-08-2003, 01:45 PM
Try the tempeg dvd authoring program
mix 4/3 and 16/9
makes automatic chapter menus
motion or not
works and inexpensive also
works with files from tempeg encoder

I have started to use this program for all consumer things


10-08-2003, 09:13 PM

Thanks for reminding me about the TMPGEnc DVD Author. I tried it on my mpeg2 file and I got an error message. See below:

DVD Architect is now properly creating DVDs using TMPGEnc mpeg2 file. It was basically an "operator error" caused by my accidently changing one of the settings in the TMPGEnc GOP Structure Tab. The "Output interval of sequence header" was set to zero. I set it to one and created a new mpeg2 output file. I brought this into DVD Architect, created menus,etc., burned the DVD and it plays in all 4 DVD player devices.

I found the problem by trying to use TMPEnc DVD Author. When I tried to bring in the mpeg2 file, DVD Author gave me an error message that stated a video sequence header was needed for every GOP in a standard DVD.


10-11-2003, 01:03 PM
It seems I'm not alone with possible GOP header probs...

I finally tried playing the NewTek DVD SamplerPaq made by Class on Demand. This was given away at the last NAB and thru NewTek dealers. It has the same problems I got with my bad GOP header files: it won't play on PowerDVD in the computer and won't play on my Toshiba DVD player, but will play OK on the CyberHome DVD player...