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wibly wobly
04-20-2011, 08:48 AM
Does anyone know if Zoic used LW for that cell shaded sequence in ep of Fringe that just aired?

COBRASoft
04-20-2011, 10:24 AM
No idea, but I really liked the cell shaded part.

sandman300
04-20-2011, 10:47 AM
looked a lot like the way they made "A Scanner Darkly".

Chris S. (Fez)
04-20-2011, 01:05 PM
Yeah, similar to the Scanner Darkly filter, though obviously applied to 3D instead of film.

I thought "The Look" held up pretty well...until cartoon Older Olivia appeared.

Red_Oddity
04-20-2011, 03:12 PM
It was kinda okay, looked too cheap for me, and the animation/mo-cap at times was iffy at best.

But, it still is my favourite sci-fi show, and so far most of the vfx work has been top notch.
Too bad it wasn't a bit weirder, they where tripping on LSD after all (should have been more like : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IcViGcYlio

jeric_synergy
04-20-2011, 03:20 PM
I thought it was horrendous:

1) Nimoy didn't really resemble 'himself' (nose was esp. bad).
2) Walter didn't have any feeling of age about him.
3) Cartoon Olivia was just terrible.
4) What the hell was the (narrative) point?

A real failure of producing, if you ask me. Not enough time or resources assigned to the task (I hope).

It was as bad as one of those Geico commercials where the point is that they are bad.

Chris S. (Fez)
04-20-2011, 03:33 PM
I thought it was horrendous:

1) Nimoy didn't really resemble 'himself' (nose was esp. bad).
2) Walter didn't have any feeling of age about him.
3) Cartoon Olivia was just terrible.
4) What the hell was the (narrative) point?

A real failure of producing, if you ask me. Not enough time or resources assigned to the task (I hope).

It was as bad as one of those Geico commercials where the point is that they are bad.

1) Agreed. The lines were there but should have been hyper-exaggerated.
2) Agreed. Likewise. Maybe they did not want to offend the actors?
3) Agreed.
4) I guess the point was that Olivia mentally retreated to her child "Saturday morning cartoon" self. In which case, she should have become real as soon as she faced her fear...

Actually, I think that was merely the "excuse". The real reason was likely budget. Producing the sequence as a toon trip was far more cost effective then filming live action zombie swarms etc...

Jarno
04-20-2011, 04:14 PM
The real reason is that Nimoy has retired from acting, hence all the work-arounds this season when dealing with the William Bell character.

---JvdL---

jeric_synergy
04-20-2011, 04:42 PM
4) I guess the point was that Olivia mentally retreated to her child "Saturday morning cartoon" self. In which case, she should have become real as soon as she faced her fear...

Actually, I think that was merely the "excuse". The real reason was likely budget. Producing the sequence as a toon trip was far more cost effective then filming live action zombie swarms etc...
Instead it looked like a crap video game circa 1999.

Conceptually, it had potential. In execution, craptastic. I don't know why I watch the show, it's horrendous. How did "The X-Files" feel so much bigger on a much smaller budget?

The best line this season was Peter's: "They're not even human."

COBRASoft
04-20-2011, 04:45 PM
Don't forget that it played in Olivia's head. Her representation of the characters could be different than real life :).

I noticed the lines sometimes dissapearing, specially on the chin.

safetyman
04-21-2011, 06:01 AM
Just for clarification: If I'm not mistaken, A Scanner Darkly, and all those Charles Schwab commercials are all hand "animated", drawn over film, frame by frame, rather than putting existing film through a filter.

wibly wobly
04-21-2011, 06:42 AM
I thought Scanner Darkly was a brute force toonshaderishy thing that was done in AE or something equivalent.

Anyway, about Fringe, I didn't think the 3D sequence wasn't badly done for a TV show one off. I've been working in television cartoons for almost a decade and I would think it would be pretty hard to push that out (assuming they had similar deadlines to what I'm used to) going the 3D route. I'm mostly in the land of Flash for the shows I do, so the workflow is obviously different (I try and use AE and LW whenever I can because they work a lot better but, that's another story) so I can't really comment on how long it would have taken a small crew of animators to pull that off.

I was ok with the stiff animation and kind of "off" models because I'm sure they really had no time to really do a proper job of it given the time. The thing that I was most disappointed with was the staging / boarding. I thought the roof top fight was a really good example of this. I'd really just like to know if they did the modeling in LW, animate in Maya and render in LW that I hear Zoic does a lot of the time, or did they produce it differently.

banjaxedmdt
04-21-2011, 06:48 AM
According to 3DWorld it's mostly Maya and took 6 weeks: http://www.3dworldmag.com/2011/04/21/zoic-studios-creates-stylised-animation-for-fringe/

wibly wobly
04-21-2011, 07:05 AM
Maya was the key tool used on the project, which took 6 weeks to complete.

Is this the usual Autodesk (you can't mention any other software being used) spiel? I don't recall seeing anything in the sequence that couldn't be done in any of the other big packages.

jeric_synergy
04-21-2011, 02:55 PM
Ugg. Now that I look at the stills, I like it EVEN LESS.

If the idea was to convey "Saturday Morning Cartoons", they failed miserably.

Cageman
04-21-2011, 03:14 PM
Despite technical glitches, I think this was one of the best episodes of Fringe so far.

I simply love that show!

:)

Dracorat
04-21-2011, 03:36 PM
The stills look very anime. Is there a small featurette instead of stills somewhere?

kojean
04-21-2011, 04:13 PM
It was very hard to watch.

I guess the quality is mostly down to budget and time constraints. Having seen what can be done with toon shaders, the result here is really disappointing. Lines popping in and out and shading that would never be done by an artist painting a cel (digital or otherwise). The character design didn't do much for me either.

As I watched, I was hoping they would get out of the cel shading sequence as soon as possible. The cuts back to live-action were a relief.

At first glance I was reminded of an old Farscape animated sequence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuFNZJe6PSM), but after a few minutes I was just cringing through the whole thing.

If they didn't have the budget to do it right, I would've preferred an automated 2D toon filter over live-action footage for a Scanner Darkly type look. I'm not especially a fan of that look either, but it would've been more bearable.

jeric_synergy
04-21-2011, 05:10 PM
At first glance I was reminded of an old Farscape animated sequence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuFNZJe6PSM), but after a few ........
a MILLION times better, in art direction and concept.

I miss Farscape. It made most SF shows look like the unimaginative dreck they are.

Cageman
04-21-2011, 05:26 PM
a MILLION times better, in art direction and concept.

I miss Farscape. It made most SF shows look like the unimaginative dreck they are.

Have you watched Stargate Universe?

THAT is sci-fi for grownups. Really sad that the show has been canceled. :/

COBRASoft
04-21-2011, 05:38 PM
The sad part about SG-U is that the last episodes are really becoming better IMO. Indeed sad it got cancelled.

dwburman
04-21-2011, 05:39 PM
The thought bubble that popped in when they first went to the toon sequence makes me think they may have been going for a bit of a comic book look.

If I remember correctly, the Scanner Darkly look started with Bob Sabiston's (and team) short "Snack and Drink (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrXj4CMC2yk)"

Richard Linklater hired Sabiston & Co. to work on "Waking Life (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk2DeTet98o)" There's part of a behind the scenes clip on Spike.com (http://www.spike.com/video-clips/u0r7wh/waking-life-dvd-extra-bob-sabistons-animation-tutorial).

Richard went back to them to do a Scanner Darkly, but there were production problems and the team needed to be changed up a bit. (more info (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Scanner_Darkly_%28film%29))

jeric_synergy
04-21-2011, 05:45 PM
Have you watched Stargate Universe?

THAT is sci-fi for grownups. Really sad that the show has been canceled. :/
I have: NO FUN. (And boring.) They seemed to have forgotten that at some level, a show should be FUN, even if bleak. BS:G was bleak, but fun. I just wanted to punch everybody on the Universe, or whatever the hell the ship was called. --oh, "Destiny", right.

Good riddance.

jeric_synergy
04-21-2011, 05:47 PM
The sad part about SG-U is that the last episodes are really becoming better IMO. Indeed sad it got cancelled.
The same seemed to be true of "Caprica", a show I enjoyed, but apparently not too many others. The snippets they appended to the last show of scenes they'd already shot for 'next season' were intriguing.


(However: hated "SG:U".) :devil:

GregMalick
04-21-2011, 05:57 PM
The real reason is that Nimoy has retired from acting, hence all the work-arounds this season when dealing with the William Bell character.

---JvdL---

I thought this would be obvious to everyone.
The actor-double that was filmed and used in the cel-shade conversion had very little resemblance to Leonard Nimoy.

Basically these last few episodes have felt like filler.

meh...:screwy:

Cageman
04-21-2011, 05:58 PM
SGU is the only Stargate series I can stand... :)

Which might be conflicting with the fact that I LOVE good old Babylon 5. B5 had some very interresting plots as well as characters, both alien and human.

Oh well... :)

UltraViolet
04-21-2011, 11:39 PM
I miss Farscape. It made most SF shows look like the unimaginative dreck they are.

I do not, lol. I own the frelling thing, re-watching it again these days, yep, that is, along with B5 and Firefly, the best Sci-Fi show ever made.

Shows I could never watch are Doctor Who and Sanctuary, I really tried.

I wish that SyFy channel had a competitor, slogan "Imagine Greater" was appropriate for them some 10 years ago, now they simply suck, they are canceling the good shows all the time and perpetuating BS like WWE SmackDown and Ghost Hunters :(

safetyman
04-22-2011, 05:55 AM
Falling Skies (starts in June on TNT network) looks to be good, lots of FX. Anyone know which studio(s) is doing this one?

jeric_synergy
04-22-2011, 08:47 AM
SGU is the only Stargate series I can stand... :)

Which might be conflicting with the fact that I LOVE good old Babylon 5. B5 had some very interresting plots as well as characters, both alien and human.

Oh well... :)
Well, we disagree, but I don't see why liking SGU is incompatible w/liking B5.