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View Full Version : Rhiggit! Pro... RELEASED



RebelHill
04-07-2011, 10:22 PM
Well, the wait is finally over... it's finally here... the pro version of my RHiggit! tools is now available.

http://rebelhill.net/html/rhiggit.html

Check the video to see just how much loverly goodness is contained within.

As promised, bundle and upgrade prices are available. RHiggit! Lite owners can get the pro version with the full cost of Lite deducted.

RHR is available bundled with any pro license for a 30 discount... this offer also extends to existing owners of RHR, who can still claim the discount.

And furthermore, both offers are stackable, so those who already bought both RHR and RHiggit! Lite can claim a 70 deduction off any pro version license.

A demo version is ofc ourse available for those who want to try before they buy... and there's even going to be a FREE version for personal use, which will be posted in a few days time (basically a non-expiring version of the original Lite demo).

And for the eagle eyed among you who already bought Lite, but notice that the features listed on the site contain more than Lite originally did, fear not, that's an upgrade version (Lite 1.2) which will be winging it's way to users very soon.

So check it out, and let me know what y'all think.

Thanks all, and ttfn.

vector
04-07-2011, 10:59 PM
A good new!! Thanks for your effort.

Vector

omichon
04-08-2011, 12:34 AM
Thanks. Great news, Finally !
and clever marketing :)

insignet
04-08-2011, 12:59 AM
very cool... we got the lite version not long ago and its really easy to setup and very robust. Looking forward to using the Pro version. Thanks.

hrgiger
04-08-2011, 01:23 AM
Very cool Craig. Will be upgrading here at some point to the pro version.

Lewis
04-08-2011, 01:24 AM
Congrats and good luck :)

mav3rick
04-08-2011, 01:57 AM
nice rebel... for people running old cache in browsers press f5

drako
04-08-2011, 02:11 AM
Im an owner of the Lite version and i have upgrade to the pro version.I cant wait
to see a mail from Craig in my inbox.I have wait long time for that version..
Thanks Craig...

ksnoad
04-08-2011, 02:27 AM
Fantastic!

Thank you very much.

Kev xx

kallis
04-08-2011, 03:26 AM
Looks Awesome...bookmarked!

//KAllis

SeaWiz
04-08-2011, 03:36 AM
Awesome video demo Craig. I will be buying soon.

Matelot13
04-08-2011, 07:54 AM
This is great. Two questions :
- I bought RHR, do I get an email with a coupon to get the discounted price, how does it work?
- Is RHiggit customizable - let's say for instance you have a character with six limbs, would you be able to use it?

WilliamVaughan
04-08-2011, 08:21 AM
Congrats on the release... this is a game changer for LW users!

nickdigital
04-08-2011, 09:16 AM
Congrats!

Ryan Roye
04-08-2011, 09:37 AM
artist + programmer = awesome

That is all.

khan973
04-08-2011, 09:57 AM
Purchased like the 2 other products!
I hope you'll keep a good support in the incoming years!

sammael
04-08-2011, 10:11 AM
Awesome! looks amazing and as far as I can tell, ingenius :) will check this out.

I particularly liked that horrible mutants animation in the video.

erikals
04-08-2011, 10:40 AM
...this is a game changer for LW users!

indeed it is...!

http://erikalstad.com/backup/anims.php_files/035.gif

stevecullum
04-08-2011, 12:04 PM
I have a question over the licence agreement for the standard pro version. It seems to say that once I have built a rig and animated a scene, it can't be sent to anyone else. Often I have to get approval from the creative director before anything is rendered and he likes to look at the scene files. They usually also own the rights to everything I've done, so that's not allowed? This could get messy...

jrandom
04-08-2011, 12:21 PM
Owing to certain bugs present in LW itself, the rig templates will NOT load under LW for Mac 64 (though 32 is fine), and also the Advanced Biped template is incompatible with either Mac version. Since these are issues inside of LW, there is nothing that can be done on the RHiggit! side to fix these issues at this present time.

Aw crud.

Please tell me you have been pestering NewTek to fix the Mac issues you've run into. I was all set to buy this but I run Mac 64-bit exclusively.

Greenlaw
04-08-2011, 12:41 PM
RH,

Wow! I just watched the video and Rhiggit Pro really sweet. I'm going to buy the upgrade later today. :)

G.

wesleycorgi
04-08-2011, 12:46 PM
Sweet. I've found the Lite version + tutes really great.

Dexter2999
04-08-2011, 12:50 PM
I have a question over the licence agreement for the standard pro version. It seems to say that once I have built a rig and animated a scene, it can't be sent to anyone else. Often I have to get approval from the creative director before anything is rendered and he likes to look at the scene files. They usually also own the rights to everything I've done, so that's not allowed? This could get messy...

If they buy a license is there an issue?

Or if you bake out the animation then strip out the rig is there an issue?


P.S.
Nice work Craig. I hope it pays off big for you.

Phil
04-08-2011, 12:54 PM
Aw crud.

Please tell me you have been pestering NewTek to fix the Mac issues you've run into. I was all set to buy this but I run Mac 64-bit exclusively.

Yup. NT are aware of it. I engaged squeaky wheel mode a while back :D

stevecullum
04-08-2011, 01:11 PM
If they buy a license is there an issue?

Or if you bake out the animation then strip out the rig is there an issue?

Yes. I can't imagine they will want to buy a licence just to open a scene file or because I want to save myself some time. I could bake things out, but that's not good either. As previously mentioned, any work carried out for them, they own the scene files too, so if at any point in the future they want to return to them to modify or change something, they don't have to rely on me being available. It's great that it's all native LW stuff and could be opened without the plugin, but the licensing seems inflexible for collaborative projects.

Dexter2999
04-08-2011, 01:44 PM
Yes. I can't imagine they will want to buy a licence just to open a scene file or because I want to save myself some time. I could bake things out, but that's not good either. As previously mentioned, any work carried out for them, they own the scene files too, so if at any point in the future they want to return to them to modify or change something, they don't have to rely on me being available. It's great that it's all native LW stuff and could be opened without the plugin, but the licensing seems inflexible for collaborative projects.

Sorry, but I only see this as a "nickle and dime" issue. 119 pounds for what it offers is fairly inconsequential for a serious production. It's less than a days wages for one employee. For setting up a rig for a character is seems like it can pay for itself with time saved in no time.

Ryan Roye
04-08-2011, 01:56 PM
Sorry, but I only see this as a "nickle and dime" issue.

Agreed. Keep in mind this guy is developing software that has taken years to produce... by himself from what I can see. Producers like this *need* to be compensated for their efforts and contribution.

The license is pretty much akin to how gaming licenses are handled; 1 purchase = 1 personal license to play the game.

Basically, whats the point of even charging money for Rhiggit if you could just legally pass around rigs generated by it? This is why that kind of license exists, otherwise businesses and studios would just find loopholes to avoid having to even buy a copy.

If any of my work becomes more than just amateur hobbyist stuff, RH definitely has my business.

mav3rick
04-08-2011, 02:07 PM
Congrats on the release... this is a game changer for LW users!

hopefully newtek take a look into it and optimize it for faster experience

Cageman
04-08-2011, 02:07 PM
Cool stuff RH!

:thumbsup:

stevecullum
04-08-2011, 02:27 PM
Sorry, but I only see this as a "nickle and dime" issue. 119 pounds for what it offers is fairly inconsequential for a serious production. It's less than a days wages for one employee. For setting up a rig for a character is seems like it can pay for itself with time saved in no time.

Oh absolutely and its why I'm interested. But, I do this stuff freelance and send off the work to external studio, who then use the scene files for what purpose they need. They do the majority of the rendering. But they like to have the fully rigged scenes I've created for future purposes. (Contractual agreement) Now, if I turn around and say look I'll buy you a licence so you can open my scene files that I'm providing that's ok. But I have NO control over who they choose to send them on to or what they do after I've submitted them.

RebelHill
04-08-2011, 04:20 PM
Hey all.

Well what a lovely response all round, really great, Im very glad you all like it so much.

To address some Qs.

Matelot - Discount coupon... not needed... just use the dropdown on the purchase page to select the upgrade version you're eligible for. If you choose one that you're not, you'll just get a refund straight back and a cheeky lil email pointing out your error. As for the many limb thing... not really no. The rigger uses premade templates, something like CAT in max, so you would need a 6 limb template. Ofc, you ould rig using the 4 limb templates, then build on an extra 2 limbs, cos the rig is all native... but thats not quite the same as having it all "auto". Maybe oneday there'll be a V2 that could let you build a character out of modular bits... but thats only if my coding skills are able to get past the wrist slitting stage.

Mac issues... yes, its a shame. First off, yes, NT have been made aware of the issues going on there... the LScript issues that hose the advanced biped for both mac versions don't jsut affect rhiggit, there's tools inside LW that don't even work due to it... try the make joint chain tool.

As for the templates not loading on Mac 64... so far as Ive seen it is JUST the templates that refuse to load... i believe that rigs that have been finished/finalised work fine... so you could always do setup in 32, then bring the finsished things into 64. However, just to be sure, Id have a bash at it with the demo... or download some of the finished demonstration characters off my site (Ill be adding more voer the weekend). Otherwise, have a check back after 10.x... hopefully that'll clear some things up.

Ok, so the licensing...

Having rigs licensed in this fashion is not uncommon these days... used to be, but no longer. There are tools now for max and maya that allow jsut that sort of thing, for scene files themselves to be locked with licensing tools... machine locked/serial'd/time limited, etc, etc.

Also for instance look at pre rigged model collections you can buy, such as aXYZ stuff for viz... those items have user limits... that license wouldnt allow for you to do a viz piece with them, and send those assets off to a further end client.

So ofc in my case this requirement is there to stop people taking the mick (which they will, give em a finger and all that). The price is, i like to think, rpetty damn cheap. ANy one of those rigs would take me 2-5 days to build from scratch for someone (at least it would do now that I know those rigs inside out having built and rebuilt them all several times through the design process ironing out issues over months and months)... and a single standard license is less than my day rate... so imo thats a great deal. Afterall, there's no quarrel when someone pays me 2-5 days work to create a rig specifically for them... but thats just 1 rig, and the cost is higher.

OFC I appreciate that your client hires you to do a job, and you agree that they buy and own all your work, and that's fine... but, and without wishing to sound like an a-hole (but risking doing so anyway)... the rigs created by this thing arent whoever's work... they're mine, and the result of a hell of a lot of work at that.

The important thing to note about the license is the word "USER"... as that's where the hook really lies. If a given client wants to get actual scene files for review, then I would recommend saving a copy, and baking the motions on the deform rig (just select all the bones and use MentalFish's motion baker... takes but minutes) then delete the control rig from that copy of the scene. This would also qualify as a version that the client can take full ownership of, as what such a scene would effectively contain would be the animation work, and they would be free to resuse those animated assets as they saw fit, as pertains to their agreement with you.

The other thing that may crop up is what happens if a client wants to take a copy of all original assets as a "backup"... that's fine too... as they're not USING the asset... they're archiving... something which is a statuatory right (at least where I come from) that licensing has nothing to say about one way or the other.

Of course in this situation where the client is taking posession of the fully operational rigs, you have no way of knowing if they are just archiving or not, and no way to control what they go onto do with those assets after the fact, of course not, and I understand that... so what I would say in this situation, is that if you do supply such things, under such terms to your clients, then the only requirement on YOU is to make the client aware of the licensing restrictions placed upon the rigs, and to get from them their agreement to abide by the terms laid down (namely that they can't themselves use, or pass to another for use, without them, or the fourth owning a usage license).

If having done that they then go on to misuse those assets, then that is their own violation of the terms... NOT yours (like taking a camcorder to a movie theatre... its the person with the camera who's in violation, not the theatre who let them in in good faith).

Hope that clears things up a little.

Cheers again all.

RebelHill
04-08-2011, 04:29 PM
Oh yes... the only thing I'll add to that is that ofc, there's no way to enforce such terms via software... the rigs are all native LW, and don't run off plugins in any way. I could of course have just made some do nothing plugin to accompay the block that tied to machine, or dongle, or whatnot, to prevent the rigs leaking away... but Ive always been on the side that feels soft locking like this only impedes users.

Afterall what happens if your dongle fries... or i get hit by a bus... you wind up SOL for no good reason, and that's not fair.

So what I hope is that by leaving things open, and giving very clear and reasonable explanations of what is and isnt considered fair use, that folks will have good reason to respect the terms and adhere to them willingly.

Ofc I know some won't... but thats the balancing act. You open a shop and put things on the shelf and sooner or later someones gonna nick something... whatchagonnado?? thats the way the world is, no point complaining about it... may as well just do the best you can, play fair as best you can, and just hope for the best.

End of teh day, you cant take it with you, so to a certain extent, sod it, just let it ride.

stevecullum
04-08-2011, 04:33 PM
Of course in this situation where the client is taking posession of the fully operational rigs, you have no way of knowing if they are just archiving or not, and no way to control what they go onto do with those assets after the fact, of course not, and I understand that... so what I would say in this situation, is that if you do supply such things, under such terms to your clients, then the only requirement on YOU is to make the client aware of the licensing restrictions placed upon the rigs, and to get from them their agreement to abide by the terms laid down (namely that they can't themselves use, or pass to another for use, without them, or the fourth owning a usage license).

If having done that they then go on to misuse those assets, then that is their own violation of the terms... NOT yours (like taking a camcorder to a movie theatre... its the person with the camera who's in violation, not the theatre who let them in in good faith).

Hope that clears things up a little.

Just to be clear - I think the pricing is excellent and have no qualms about that at all. I think your suggestion above is one I can negotiate with them on, as it effectively clears me to pass on scenes as is.

Thanks for the response. :)

RebelHill
04-08-2011, 04:56 PM
Just to be clear - I think the pricing is excellent and have no qualms about that at all. I think your suggestion above is one I can negotiate with them on, as it effectively clears me to pass on scenes as is.

Thanks for the response. :)

No worries, that option should really be all good.

Whilst the licensing is there in very spcific terms in black and white (as is normal)... to my own mind, as long as folks understand and appreciate the reason behind the "ideals" of the license, and use their own good common sense when using and working with the assets, then that's OK by me:thumbsup:

Larry_g1s
04-08-2011, 05:19 PM
Awesome stuff Craig! And I just saw that you have a nice discount for those of us with RHR + RHiggit lite. Very nice.

Julez4001
04-08-2011, 10:25 PM
I have never used this product.

I am prety much committed to using messiah:studio for character aniamation for Lightwave.
So I see no need to use this product.


However....


I must say that Promo reel , all 15 minutes of it, was the most impressive thing I've seen in promoting character animation and CA tools, natively in Lightwave.......ever.



My hat off to you purely on that promo reel.

I am actually considering it after watching that if for no other reason to support your efforts.

wow.


Bravo.

dballesg
04-09-2011, 01:23 AM
Hey all.

Well what a lovely response all round, really great, Im very glad you all like it so much.



Craig, Thanks a lot for create such a set of impressive rigs. BTW I loved the music you put on the video, and the video itself it's really well done.

David

moremetall
04-10-2011, 03:21 AM
Dropping Messiah Studio now :), order placed today! Hope the issue with MAC will be solved soon by NT.

RebelHill
04-11-2011, 12:06 PM
There ahve been a couple of small bug fixes to RHiggit Pro, you can get the update by simply redownloading the release again from the link you were supplied with.

Do also cast your eye over my forum from time to time, as Ive added a new announcements sectin there, where I will post details of future updates/fixes, etc.

Cheers.

cgisoul
04-11-2011, 01:00 PM
That's a nice one!

I am wondering if this is difficult for beginners for rigging like myself.

I would be very interested in the coming future to rigg one of my portraits to talk.
What is the difference between Basic and Standard Face?

Also, what are the differences between the Bipeds you mentioned in the list. Could you please have some basic description on the differences between them?

Thank you and congratulations for the new release.

GraphXs
04-11-2011, 10:43 PM
Looks sweet! I have a few questions:

1) Can you get back to the edit stage after the RHiggit button is pressed? Or would you save the scene at that state before hitting RHiggit?
2) If I buy a single copy can I use it for my LW copy that I bring back and forth to work?
3) Will LW10.1 make multiple rigs play better?
4)Do characters needs weight creation for RHiggit Pro for deformation to work corretly?
5) What about PlugIK? Do I need to use that for RHiggit Pro to work?
6) Does the FBX rig work with Unity or Max? What software was tested with it? Maya? MB?

Thanks

RebelHill
04-12-2011, 05:46 AM
CG... Nice and easy for beginners... if you can move nulls, click a button and know an arse from an elbow, you're good to go. The two faces differ in the conttrols available, but mainly their difference is your ability to control more specific shaping of the face as it forms different poses. The faces are however, not the headline part, they're just tossed into the package to give folks a reasonably handy, accessible option> whilst the control system is setup for you, the REAL face rig lies in the morfs, which ofc you have to create yourself, so the outcome of the face is very much dependent on your own skills at making good face shapes. Rubbish in, rubbish out, etc.

As to the specific differences between the different templates, downlaod the demo, which contains the docs, which explain all.

Graphx...
1. Switch back and forth as much as you like, without end. Though thre's a "finishing" process once you're done/happy, past which you can no longer edit.
2.Yes, the license is USER/LOCATION oriented... so a given number of users at a single location, or those same user(s) moving between locations.
3.Dunno... it has improvements to mesh deform speed, but you always get best performance animating at subD-0, so that'll likely make little difference there. LWs main performance issues lie in its evaluation of the rig (which is basically a lil machine which needs to be calculated each time something updates). NT are however looking at further work in optimising rig evaluation speed, so maybe 10.2/3/x will bring some improvements. Infact one such update doubtlessly shall bring SOME improvement, how much is anyon's guess.
4. Yup. But mainly its just isolation maps to stop bones having influence on nearby areas... for a lot of characters they don't need to be too tidy/precise. Plus you can alter the weighting yourself, and the weight associations, add extra hold bones if needed, etc... and do it all whilst the rig is still in an editable state, allowing you to hone in on the best settings for any given character.
5.Nope.
6.The FBX setup is really just a control hierarchy... its design is simply to allow your character to be exported to MB or similar, for retargeting animation, which is then loaded back onto the LW "master" rig... The idea being that FBX motions brought in can be used to drive the RHiggit deform rig in LW. There is currently no option for exporting hand animation done in LW out to an FBX (or any other type) compatible rig that can bring your deforming mesh into other packages (so basically the FBX setups are input oriented, not output)... However, I am also looking at adding this functionality in a future update... not so much with max/maya in mind, but certainly thinking of games output, like to unity. Being able to hand animate using the RHiggit control rig in LW, and send that animation out on a skeleton for use in games is something I VERY much want to be able to offer.

Cheers.

cgisoul
04-12-2011, 05:51 AM
Thank you RebelHill for explaining this. I will give it a try.
All the best.

Chris S. (Fez)
04-13-2011, 06:06 PM
Awesome "overview" video. I mostly use Max/Modo these days but as soon as I confirm 10.1 is fast/stable I will happily purchase a seat of RHiggit Pro.

Paul_Boland
04-14-2011, 08:39 PM
I am FLOORED by the promo video. I'll give the free version a demo run when its available and if I like what I see (which I already do!!), I'll buy the single version for myself.

jasonwestmas
04-14-2011, 09:26 PM
Congrats Craig, really great rig as usual! :)

RebelHill
04-15-2011, 06:04 AM
Free edition should be up by the end of the day.

Don't forget there's also the demo version of Pro already there, plus some demo characters who've been rigged using the setups to try out in the shares section. I should be adding more of those later today too.

OnlineRender
04-15-2011, 06:52 AM
Free edition should be up by the end of the day.

Don't forget there's also the demo version of Pro already there, plus some demo characters who've been rigged using the setups to try out in the shares section. I should be adding more of those later today too.

:thumbsup:

3dWannabe
04-15-2011, 09:22 AM
RebelHill - just noticed that only two of your four FBX videos show up on this page:

http://rebelhill.net/html/lwandfbx.html

When 10.1 arrives with its hopefully positive FBX changes, I'd love to see a video on an FBX workflow that included the weighting issues that Greenlaw mentioned being forced to use Maya for (and Cageman said he had an extensive worflow to get around, which might be simplified a lot by 10.1). Maybe Cageman will do a video on that? I'd love to see one!

Annoying they are just going to spring the 10.1 changes on you at the same time as everyone else. Both Apple and Microsoft have programs to get their proposed updates out to software developers first - something I wish Newtek would implement - as you and other 3rd party developers for Lightwave would help them to make a better product if you could comment before the changes are a 'fait accompli'.

jwiede
04-16-2011, 05:31 AM
RH, is the advanced biped rig the only one impacted by Mac LW issues? All the other rigs in the Pro version work? Specifically, do the FBX biped, and all quadruped rigs still work on Mac without any issues? Or do they suffer from limitations on Mac as well?

I'm considering upgrading to Pro, but am a Mac LW user, and want to be sure I understand the limitations with Mac.

RebelHill
04-16-2011, 05:45 AM
As stated, the templates won't load on the mac 64 version, but are fine on 32. (this same issue affects Lite as it happens, so u can check that out with the version u already have).

Otherwise, yes, it is ONLY the advanced biped that is hosed in mac altogether... this is due to a bug in LScript on mac, where a certain command just plain doesnt work.

Actually that said... it is just the auto stretchy IK function of the advanced biped which gets hosed by this problem... apart from that one feature, the adv biped will work fine on mac, and those folks with rigging knowledge could always dig in and manually fix the IKscale chains positional values, one they were done setting up the rig.

BTW... Ive also just updated the demo vid to reflect the switch back and forth between edit and rig mode... don't know how I forgot to point that out... guess its just become second nature, lol.

RebelHill
04-16-2011, 11:35 AM
As promised, a collection of new demo rigs has been posted in the shares section of my site, go check em out, some great stuff there to play with.

On the side note, Ive also updated to LW<>FBX tuts with a new part on the weighting issues experienced.

ttfn.

3dWannabe
04-16-2011, 01:25 PM
On the side note, Ive also updated to LW<>FBX tuts with a new part on the weighting issues experienced.

ttfn.

Thanks for the new video! Certainly explains what's happening beneath the surface with weights. What's your procedure for actually painting weights? Greenlaw was using Maya just for painting, so I'm curious?

One question, that's probably dumb. You animated your dog in a run cycle with just 2 or 4 simple steps and I'd guess the same applies for people.

A friend using 3ds said he could take a run cycle, draw a spline and have the character follow it up and down surfaces and moving in different directions.

Is this easy to do in Lightwave, draw a spline and have your run-cycle character follow it? Or is there a better way?

jeric_synergy
04-16-2011, 02:14 PM
Oh absolutely and its why I'm interested. But, I do this stuff freelance and send off the work to external studio, who then use the scene files for what purpose they need. They do the majority of the rendering. But they like to have the fully rigged scenes I've created for future purposes. (Contractual agreement) Now, if I turn around and say look I'll buy you a licence so you can open my scene files that I'm providing that's ok. But I have NO control over who they choose to send them on to or what they do after I've submitted them.
If they are serious, they'll buy a license.

This is the reverse of a contractor wanting you to purchase a specific tool. If you wanted to work for them, you'd buy the tool (assuming they didn't front you). If you client wants your services that utilize RHP, they'll buy the license.

For god's sake, do not buy it for them.

Cageman
04-16-2011, 06:24 PM
RebelHill - just noticed that only two of your four FBX videos show up on this page:

http://rebelhill.net/html/lwandfbx.html

When 10.1 arrives with its hopefully positive FBX changes, I'd love to see a video on an FBX workflow that included the weighting issues that Greenlaw mentioned being forced to use Maya for (and Cageman said he had an extensive worflow to get around, which might be simplified a lot by 10.1). Maybe Cageman will do a video on that? I'd love to see one!

Just to clarify here... The workflow that I was refering to was to bring a rigged and weighted character into LW from Maya without having anything in LW initially. No object, no bones, no weights. All of it exists in Maya but the custom tools I have in LW allows me to transfer this. The new FBX-system in LW10.1 might actually do this without the custom tools, but I have to test it in order to see if that is the case.

What RH is doing is quite different (but VERY cool!!!). :)

RebelHill
04-19-2011, 02:01 PM
Ive added today to my site a video guide for the rigs, explaining all the controls and systems, and how to use them during animation...

http://rebelhill.net/html/rh_rig_guide.html

I'll follow this up at some point soon with some animation walkthroughs too, for follks to get an idea of their ease, and workflow options.

3DW...

My "procedure" for painting weights (if you can call it that) is just to grab a bunch of verts/polys, and apply a weight name to them. Im more concerned with what happens back in LW than in the external package, so I don't go around carefully airbrushing things... though I will often blur the weights if Im wanting something a lil more finessed in MB.

As for the 4 frame thing on the quad... that's just referring to the action of the spine, only requiring 4 keys on one main item to create the smooth motion you see... basically demonstrating that whilst the myriad of controllers available may seem complex, they're actually not, and the systems are designed to give you as fast and efficient an aniamtion workflow as possible, without having to manage huge sets of keys across multiple items (the IK foot controller being another good example of this).

What you're on about in Max is something very different... thats a part of Max's animation system... not the rigs. Now you can setup such a system in LW, using a bunch of null obecjts for the "footsteps", a motion curve, and a whole bunch of expressions, but you have to manually tinker around with every part of it to adjust the whole.

At the end of the day, it can be a fun TD trick to show off, but whilst such a thing remains a "build it urself per character" thing, and not a component of an actual animation "system"... walk cycles are just far quicker to do by hand from scratch in LW.

3dWannabe
04-19-2011, 03:58 PM
What you're on about in Max is something very different... thats a part of Max's animation system... not the rigs. Now you can setup such a system in LW, using a bunch of null obecjts for the "footsteps", a motion curve, and a whole bunch of expressions, but you have to manually tinker around with every part of it to adjust the whole.

At the end of the day, it can be a fun TD trick to show off, but whilst such a thing remains a "build it urself per character" thing, and not a component of an actual animation "system"... walk cycles are just far quicker to do by hand from scratch in LW.

RebelHill - I guess my question should be, once you have a walk cycle, what can you do with it in a real-world situation? How do you use it?

The 3ds CAT guy used a spline along with the walk cycle to quickly create something for a client. I guess I was hoping there was a better solution to do the same thing in Lightwave?

I'm slowly getting up to speed in MotionBuilder, so ... is there a simple way to do that in MB?

Maybe my workflow will be:

1. map my character to RHiggit Pro's rig.

2. animate mostly in MB with RHiggit Pro's FBX rig.

3. bring into motion into Lightwave from MB, use RHiggit Pro (or TAFA) to animate the facial morphs

4. use RHiggit Pro's Lightwave rig to tweak any animations needed,

5. render in LW with all the cool deformers, etc. you've built in to the advanced RHiggit Pro rig?

Thanks!

RebelHill
04-20-2011, 05:56 AM
Well, a walk cycle (or any other motion done with a RHiggit rig) isnt anything special... its just a motion keyed on a rig, which could really be any kind of rig in LW.

Now LW does have tools for linking and mxing animation clips... namely motionmixer and IKboost. Neither of these, ofc, work with items that have constraints or motion controllers on them, they only work with straight FK keyframes on items, so you can't throw a RHiggit rig (or really any kind of LW "control" rig) into one of them.

What you can do, however with RHiggit is to convert hand keyed animation to baked data. The simplest way to do this is to select all the bones of RHiggit's deform rig, and bake their motions (a 2-3 click operation if you use MF's motion baker script).

You can then delete the control rig entirely, leaving just the keyframed deform bones behind, which can then be thrown into motionmixer or IKB for looping, mixing, etc, etc. For instance you might create a single walk cycle (left to right to left), animate it either on the spot, or moving fowards deleting forward motion keys on the root bone after baking so the whole thing umps back to action on the spot. You can then attatch that root bone to a spline to get it moving along, and use IKB to loop motion on all the other bones, keying away with the fix/ikstop functions to fix any foot slide, etc.

Or ofc, the MB route works fine... MB is like the half-breed offspring of motionmixer and IKB, pumped full of steroids and growth hormones.

Loop, mix, retime, retarget, etc, etc. In this case ofc you would use the fbx setups... which themselves aren't really "rigs"... the FBX skeletons are just FK hierarchies, MB creates the rig on that hierarchy via its characterisation process.

Once done there, you load those baked motions back onto the LW version of the FBX rig, which in turn "drives" the deform rig setup by RHiggit, giving all thsoe lovely deforms. If you were wanting to further refine the anim in LW, you could use IKB on the FBX hierarchy, or cut that out with the bake to deform rig process, using that as your IKB "rig".

gordonrobb
04-23-2011, 01:10 AM
Just bought it.

Hominid 3D
04-23-2011, 02:59 AM
RebelHill - I guess my question should be, once you have a walk cycle, what can you do with it in a real-world situation? How do you use it?

The 3ds CAT guy used a spline along with the walk cycle to quickly create something for a client. I guess I was hoping there was a better solution to do the same thing in Lightwave?


You may want to look into Cycler in LW.

gordonrobb
04-23-2011, 03:00 AM
Just watched the vids on Youtube, and now know how little I know :)

RebelHill
04-24-2011, 01:17 PM
Just watched the vids on Youtube, and now know how little I know :)

Well hopefully the rigger will remove the need to know too much for an awful lot of things, and Im sure once you get used to using it, you'll find it blinding fast for setting things up.

I'll also be adding to those vids soon with some animation walkthrough examples to show actual workflow ideas whilst animating... should help get you even further along hopefully.

OnlineRender
04-24-2011, 01:21 PM
Well hopefully the rigger will remove the need to know too much for an awful lot of things, and Im sure once you get used to using it, you'll find it blinding fast for setting things up.

I'll also be adding to those vids soon with some animation walkthrough examples to show actual workflow ideas whilst animating... should help get you even further along hopefully.

Please send your CV to NEWTEK ! ,with a large Salary figure .

gordonrobb
04-24-2011, 02:38 PM
Well hopefully the rigger will remove the need to know too much for an awful lot of things, and Im sure once you get used to using it, you'll find it blinding fast for setting things up.

I'll also be adding to those vids soon with some animation walkthrough examples to show actual workflow ideas whilst animating... should help get you even further along hopefully.

:) I hope. Going to retopologise one of my Zbrush sculpts and try to get it moving.

hdace
05-03-2011, 09:25 PM
As stated, the templates won't load on the mac 64 version, but are fine on 32.

So the LW 10.1 beta has just come out. Sorry to discuss beta here so let me know if we should move elsewhere, but just wondering if there's any indication this issue has been fixed yet.

RebelHill
05-04-2011, 03:31 AM
Has it???

I just woke up...

Standby.

RebelHill
05-04-2011, 11:51 AM
Well... no info on the mac side of things so far... but whatever comes up thats relevent we can report/discuss here...

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119098

Some good news already.

Greenlaw
03-10-2012, 11:36 AM
Used Rhiggit! Pro to rig one of the Brudders characters in 'quadruped mode' for a shot in our next movie. The rig is actually way overkill in this instance but what a joy to use! If you need to animate a quadruped in Lightwave, I want to recommend this.

Thanks once again RH!

G.

RebelHill
03-10-2012, 11:47 AM
And yet uve still not tried out the fbx riggers... shame on you, lol.

No reli, thanks, Im very glad you find it a nice rig to use... but god knows, theres enough years of design and redesign behind them.

Just u wait till I get mocap editing in LW sorted... that'll get u into the fbx things!

Greenlaw
03-10-2012, 12:04 PM
And yet uve still not tried out the fbx riggers... shame on you, lol.
Sorry. :tongue:

One of these days, I think I will rework the Brudders mocap rigs with Rhiggit! Pro, but right now I don't want to 'fix' what's actually working very well for us. Besides, I have way too many other things to think about right now (mostly Vue and live action stuff.)

But I do expect to use the RH FBX rig when we get back to working on RVJ.

Keep up the great work! Looking forward to future updates.

G.

rcallicotte
03-10-2012, 12:07 PM
Really?

Just when I was looking really hard at Jimmy Rig. I'll wait.



Just u wait till I get mocap editing in LW sorted... that'll get u into the fbx things!

jasonwestmas
03-10-2012, 12:11 PM
Really?

Just when I was looking really hard at Jimmy Rig. I'll wait.

Yeah, maybe you should wait, if that's possible. =)

RebelHill
03-10-2012, 12:22 PM
Really?

Just when I was looking really hard at Jimmy Rig. I'll wait.

Just as a note... editing only at this point... no retargeting in LW. That may come later, but no guarantees. So ull still need to do a basic "proportions retarget" elsewhere (easy with animeeple if u can get hold of a copy of forever edition, or there's the IKinema webanimate thing)...

But after that a nice keyable editable rig to drop your motion onto in LW.

silviotoledo
03-10-2012, 12:59 PM
" But after that a nice keyable editable rig to drop your motion onto in LW "

So, are you saying we would be able to key animate over the mocap? ( like in animation layer ) with your rig?

Any video sample?

RebelHill
03-10-2012, 01:09 PM
yup and not yet. but soon. ish.

erikals
03-10-2012, 01:48 PM
you might be able for now to use dynamic parenting to solve it.

Greenlaw
03-10-2012, 11:03 PM
And yet uve still not tried out the fbx riggers... shame on you, lol.
Okay, you've shamed me. I'm going to try the RHiggit! Pro FBX rig now. :)

Here's what's going on:

Last week I was preparing a mocap test for a friend who's supervising a feature but before I could start rigging the character, the production decided to go with a practical effect instead. That actually worked out okay because I think I have too many irons in the fire right now. Even so, I still want to finish this test if just for my own interests, and the character still needs a rig, and I don't want to spend too much more time on this, so...

I think this is going to be fun. I finished the mocap a few days ago and, with Rhiggit! Pro, the rest should go quickly. Let you know how it goes.

G.

rcallicotte
03-11-2012, 09:47 AM
Okay. Waiting.



yup and not yet. but soon. ish.

Greenlaw
03-11-2012, 01:52 PM
RH,

The RHiggit! button is amazing--I can't believe how quickly it lets me jump between Edit and Pose modes. This is absolutely a lot easier than editing a joints-based character rig using LW alone. I just need to complete my latest mocap tests to be sure.

That said, I'm convinced enough that RHiggit! Pro will definitely be used for the characters in RVJ. But I'm still not reworking the Brudders rigs. :p

G.

crpcory
03-20-2012, 10:35 PM
Does anyone know if the mac issues with RHiggit are resolved with LW11? I got the demo (and the free version), and it seems to be working... sort of correctly but I can't tell.

The big list of IK/FK switching and all of that only lists eyes and hide control. Is that part of the bug and why things aren't generating? It's hard to tell how this is supposed to work if some things are and potentially some things aren't.

I can load the demo rigs fine (at least they seem okay) and they seem way more complete than when I have to hit the RHiggit myself and create it.

Am I missing something or is this still part of the bug? I seem to be getting the same issues in LW11 32 or 64 bit.

Thanks

bummer, I really want to get this but if it's not really rigging correctly...

wesleycorgi
03-20-2012, 11:15 PM
Does anyone know if the mac issues with RHiggit are resolved with LW11? I got the demo (and the free version), and it seems to be working... sort of correctly but I can't tell.

I posed the question a few months ago on the RH boards for 10.1 and RH said there shouldn't be an issue. Unless something broke with LW11, I would presume that this still holds true. I haven't used RHiggit in LW11 myself yet.

RebelHill
03-21-2012, 03:05 AM
Mac issues are with 9.61 and 10.0 version only... other versions are fine.

Free version only contains the basic biped rig, which has no IKFK switching, hence the lack of switches.

Note to self... must get round to changing the RHiggit page since the LW issues have been fixed... oh lookie, I just did.

geo_n
03-21-2012, 03:28 AM
Any chace to have some sort of footsteps in rhiggit?

RebelHill
03-21-2012, 03:51 AM
by footsteps you mean some sort of walk cycle generator?

I think pretty unlikely for 2 reasons. 1, It'd require some kind of programming that goes beyond where my capabilities max out. and 2, cos I HATE auto walk cycle things, they look naff and generic, and Id never use one, and Ive little impetus to develop tools Im not wanting to use myself. If quick n easy walk cycles are what folk are after, then mocap, imo, is the way to go.

erikals
03-21-2012, 03:51 AM
like how though? like? > http://youtu.be/yWJzkyWpQgA

agree, auto walk never looks good...
maybe capture a BVH instead and use that as a reference footage
or just drop it, and do it old school...

 

geo_n
03-21-2012, 04:26 AM
by footsteps you mean some sort of walk cycle generator?

I think pretty unlikely for 2 reasons. 1, It'd require some kind of programming that goes beyond where my capabilities max out. and 2, cos I HATE auto walk cycle things, they look naff and generic, and Id never use one, and Ive little impetus to develop tools Im not wanting to use myself. If quick n easy walk cycles are what folk are after, then mocap, imo, is the way to go.

Yep not for the purist animator maybe its not needed but for populating a scene with background characters its a must. There is mocap indeed but footsteps makes it a lot easier to direct flow and even constraint to terrain. I guess Jimmyrigger would fill this void but I sold mine already.

erikals
03-21-2012, 04:31 AM
re-buy... ;]

RebelHill
03-21-2012, 04:39 AM
Yes... I can certainly agree with that, a quick plop of bg characters would benefit hugely from such a system. Mocap will often I think fill in pretty well there, but ofc there's no ability to define paths n such.

But to do all that, set them off on a path, auto stepping, constraining to ground, etc... that's getting pretty damn complicated... its a whole motion control system of its own, and ur starting to approach things like SI behaviour, or massive... waaaaay over my head.

JR is a good solution, as it can redirect mocap, do ground contact compensation and so on, which is pretty lovely... but ofc, in a more general way JR does also have its flaws... no finger stuff for example, nor faces, and the weights that it uses, whilst producing OK deforms, are still pretty basic, and u cant get the nice smooth, shapely deformation that a custom rig like RHiggit delivers.

NOW... if JR and RHiggit could talk to each other... wouldnt THAT be special... ;)

geo_n
03-21-2012, 05:23 AM
re-buy... ;]

The lack of development for over a year when I owned it is enough to lose confidence with it.



NOW... if JR and RHiggit could talk to each other... wouldnt THAT be special... ;)

Hmm..keeping busy ey.

erikals
03-21-2012, 05:41 AM
NOW... if JR and RHiggit could talk to each other... wouldn't THAT be special... ;)

that would > http://erikalstad.com/backup/anims.php_files/035.gif

rcallicotte
03-21-2012, 07:05 AM
Out of context, but :agree: X50



NOW... if JR and RHiggit could talk to each other... wouldnt THAT be special... ;)

crpcory
03-21-2012, 08:30 AM
Ahh gotcha, thanks for the reply.

Excited to put this to use.

rcallicotte
05-01-2012, 07:06 AM
Does anyone know if Rhiggit Lite has rigged eyes / eyelids? If not, is this something I could add to the Rhiggit rig to rig the eyes / eyelids with some sense of ease?

jasonwestmas
05-01-2012, 07:08 AM
Does anyone know if Rhiggit Lite has rigged eyes / eyelids? If not, is this something I could add to the Rhiggit rig to rig the eyes / eyelids with some sense of ease?

It has facial joints that you can weightmap to the facial verts. Rhiggit is fully customizable if you know how it works.

RebelHill
05-01-2012, 07:20 AM
Yes it has setup for eyes.

rcallicotte
05-04-2012, 06:36 AM
Thank you for the quick answer! I got caught up with a new release at work and a PC down at home. This is great news.


Yes it has setup for eyes.

rcallicotte
05-04-2012, 06:37 AM
Thanks Jason. I have so much to learn. I've used Messiah Studio, but mostly only in tutorials and trying things. So I'm looking forward to this.



It has facial joints that you can weightmap to the facial verts. Rhiggit is fully customizable if you know how it works.

jasonwestmas
05-04-2012, 10:09 AM
Thanks Jason. I have so much to learn. I've used Messiah Studio, but mostly only in tutorials and trying things. So I'm looking forward to this.

I feel Rhiggit is a much easier rig to use than Autorig 3 in messiah but if you want a lot of keyframing flexibility then try out messiah too.

Julez4001
05-05-2012, 12:43 PM
What are the main things to you thta makes Rhiggit better than Autorig?


What about the flexibility in modifying the rig later?

jasonwestmas
05-05-2012, 12:48 PM
Both Rhiggit and Autorig are native rigs that can be modified. I don't want to really start a debate about which ones are better but send me a message or post on setuptab if you have questions.

Ultimately it's more about trying out the tools and deciding for yourself in a per project context.