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HowardM
02-28-2003, 03:33 PM
http://www.3DInk.com/mechfoot.gif

Gotta get the shakes out, but I think this could work!
Uh, anyone know which of the meaningless variables in MD to tweak to stop this from shaking?
Its got 0 spring!

for those interested in a different angle CLICK here (http://www.3DInk.com/Comp 1.gif)

Jockomo
02-28-2003, 07:39 PM
Very nice howard, looks great! How long did it take to compute that in MD?

hrgiger
02-28-2003, 08:48 PM
would love to see what kind of settings you used to do that. It looks great. And yes, I'm curious, is it slow to compute. Seems like the ground would have to be fairly dense for that to look good.

Celshader
02-28-2003, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by HowardM
Uh, anyone know which of the meaningless variables in MD to tweak to stop this from shaking?
Its got 0 spring!

Try increasing the Calculate Resolution in the Options panel to 100 instead of its default of 10.

HowardM
03-01-2003, 10:53 AM
Thanks Jen, but I already had it set to 250, and Ive tried 500+ but still get some shakes or spring every now and then...too many variables to tweak that do the same thing in MD! argh! :(

but this would work for a shot with a camera move, motion blur, particles, dust, etc...I doubt anyone would notice...

it didnt take long on a 2.2 ghz with pc800 ram....about 10-15 mins for 300 frames to get Motion Designed..

you guys try it out first (its the best way to learn!), if you cant get it working Ill help.

load the Cloth_Dynamics scene, go to modeller and make all 4 edges of the Banner obj to the Cloth_Fixed surface...so you have a tight square holding the cloth together...
change the ball to a mech shaped foot.
go back to layout, and rotate the cloth horizontally....remove the ball keyframes, add a null, parent the foot to the null...set the foot up with ossilating motion to stomp...move the null around.
open up MD...but first read up on these (
http://www.newtek.com/discus/messages/2/27184.html?1026744459 and http://forums.newtek.com/discus/messages/2/27478.html? and http://forums.newtek.com/discus/messages/2/28051.html? )

just start tweaking and testing, thats all I did for about a half an hour (this animation came from the obsession to quickly figure out the answer to someones question yesterday)
the object of the game is to make the cloth hard enough to sit still but soft enough to get pressed down....as with most of MD, its all trial and error, so if you read the above posts (especially the tutorial) youll get it fast!

Good luck!

FenrirWolf
03-02-2003, 02:13 AM
Thanks, Howard, for the really cool animation...I like it!

Sadly, I can't get MD to do anything like your animation with the clean footsteps. When my robot steps on the street, either the street doesn't "react" for several frames, or it continues to sink into the ground long after the foot's left the depression...

I've been tweaking MD in my scene all weekend and I'm getting nowhere. :( I've read the tutorials several times, and poured over the manual, but a lot of this still doesn't make sense.

Celshader
03-02-2003, 02:57 AM
Originally posted by HowardM
Thanks Jen, but I already had it set to 250, and Ive tried 500+ but still get some shakes or spring every now and then...too many variables to tweak that do the same thing in MD! argh! :(

Have you tried increasing the Viscosity of the snow? Viscosity could dampen the tendency of the points of the snow to bounce.

You might also try setting the Bound force of the collision object (the robot) to 0. Then the points of the snow would not recieve any force from the impact of the robot, and they would stay still after getting deformed.

Hm...I'm going to run a quick and dirty test...

Celshader
03-02-2003, 04:17 AM
Here's a quick and dirty test on a subpatch plane of 6400 polygons, with the plane's SubD level set to 2 and Smoothing activated in the surface settings for the "snow" surface. All MD settings left at their default, save for two changes:

Collision object: Bound force = 0
"Snow" object: Spring = 0

Without a Spring force, the points don't try to pull themselves back together. Without a Bound force on the collision object, the "snow" object's points receive no impact force from my collision object. The points move no further than where the object's direct collision moved them. I left the calculate resolution at its default of 10.

You were correct, HowardM -- this is a technique to consider for making snow prints!!!

To conserve bandwidth, this animated GIF file only shows every other frame of the preview animation. You can still see the points of the snow stay put after getting deformed, though:

FenrirWolf
03-02-2003, 04:53 AM
Argh! How are you getting MD to do this? I tried creating a brand new scene from scratch and I used Celshader's settings, but the attachment is what I get.

The surface still bounces like jello! MD is driving me mad. *tears out his hair*

HowardM
03-02-2003, 10:23 AM
Did you try starting with the Cloth/Ball Collision Dynamics LW scene like I said?
Ive never gotten a new scene to work in MD correctly, not that Ive played with enough, so I always start with something that does work and learn from it.
But im no expert like Jen, but as you can see, she said she got it to work from scratch...

you scene does work, you just gotta tweak the grounds MD surface to not be like jello...by doing what Jen and the other posts said (re- read the tutorial) you can get it right! 0 spring!

remember, were hacking MD which is soft body to do hard bodies, so its tricky and there is no real science..so just jack up alot of the values to like 100000 and see what it does! (Calc Res also tweaks the settings globally it seems...)

does FXBreak take care of all this? :)

HowardM
03-02-2003, 10:30 AM
by the way Jen, is that snow object a single surface or does it have fixed edges?
Im wondering if thats why my version buckles...I began with the default cloth that has one upper edge fixed...made all four edges fixed to hold the snow....ya I bet thats why it ripples...bouncing off the sides! :)

TerryFord
03-02-2003, 11:24 AM
Great thread, I have to say this is one or the reasons I really like using LightWave; users are so sharing. Brilliant... Ah, I'm getting all emotional... :)

Regards,
Terry

Celshader
03-02-2003, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by FenrirWolf
Argh! How are you getting MD to do this? I tried creating a brand new scene from scratch and I used Celshader's settings, but the attachment is what I get.

Make sure that all non-Spring settings for the snow object are left at the MD default settings. In particular, make sure that Sub Structure and Hold Structure are both set to 0 for the "snow" object. Also, change Spring from its default of 1 to the new value of 0.


Originally posted by
HowardM
by the way Jen, is that snow object a single surface or does it have fixed edges?

My snow object is a single surface. :)

HowardM
03-02-2003, 01:57 PM
I thought so!

I also make the foot object fixed...do you? Its funny how theres many ways to do the same thing in MD!

Celshader
03-02-2003, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by HowardM
I also make the foot object fixed...do you?

Nope! I'm not using MD to deform the collision object, so I don't have "Fixed" turned on for it.


Originally posted by HowardM
Its funny how theres many ways to do the same thing in MD!

No kidding! :D

J.Barr
03-02-2003, 04:50 PM
try the KO_polyfit plugin (serach it on flay), its a real-time deformer plugin which may do this sort of stuff better/quicker than MD can.

J.Barr
03-02-2003, 10:28 PM
update- ko_polyfit doesnt seem to hold deformations at all :-P

mohh
03-02-2003, 11:29 PM
Thanks for the tips guys/gals!

FenrirWolf
03-03-2003, 12:20 PM
Okay, seems that the sub-structure was set to 1000...Which is what MD was defaulting to. I've got it to work now. Thanks!

HowardM
03-04-2003, 05:41 PM
Heres a COOL tip!

Once youve hit Start and got the MD down, you can add a Texture Displacement to make, lets say a rocky landscape out of the wad o subDs....well the cool thing is, the footprints are still stored, and used WITH the new displaced objects positioning...so you dont need to tweak the footprints...they get smashed into the new displacement!!!!!!

That is soooo cool!

UnCommonGrafx
03-13-2003, 05:32 AM
This is so cool!!

And Howard, it can work on a new scene: I followed Jen's settings and got it first time out. 7.5b.

Wow.
Raw scene with a funky foot and a multi-divided plane. Default everything except the two settings stated.

Nice work, folks, and thanks for sharing.
Robert Wilson
UnCommon Grafx

UnCommonGrafx
03-13-2003, 05:36 AM
It even does the little wave push if it has horizontal motion! This is a very good piece of knowledge.

HowardM
03-13-2003, 09:07 AM
yep, it is damn cool!
Im using it for sand deformation, MD test avi (http://www.3DInk.com/smush.avi) and the possibilities seem endless now...use this technique for water, for sand, for snow, for anything!

Hervé
03-14-2003, 01:15 AM
He he good technique, and what about the wheels of a car in the snow..? possible ??

Celshader
03-14-2003, 04:28 AM
Originally posted by Hervé
He he good technique, and what about the wheels of a car in the snow..? possible ??

I think so. One could use MD to deform the main body of snow, using the wheels as collision objects...

To cap it off, though, I'd also have particles spraying out from underneath the wheels. :D

*has driven cars in Michigan winters*

HowardM
03-19-2003, 12:52 AM
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2117

daveythegravy
06-24-2003, 04:19 PM
Thanx Cellshader, thats exactly what I was looking for.

Can you post me a copy of your scene, so I can apply the technique to my Girraffe Animation?

Looks great.

daveythegravy:D

[hjd_uk]
06-27-2003, 05:27 AM
Cool, great tips. Thanks everyone.

daveythegravy
07-12-2003, 01:30 PM
Hi there Celshader,

I have been trying since before this thread was started to acheive a Hard Body effect in Lightwave, always with unsatisfactory results.

When I first saw your gif, I was so happy, but I just can't repeat your results.

Can you please post a copy of the file, so that I can figure out what I am doing wrong.

Many thanks.

daveythegravy

HowardM
07-12-2003, 02:19 PM
come on davey, you sure are asking alot here without even searching!
we have basically laid it out for you in multiple posts, even thrown up scene files if you search for them....
:(