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View Full Version : Animate Elmer Fudd's eye (no eyelid shows when completely open)?



3dWannabe
03-25-2011, 06:02 PM
An artist is designing an Elmer Fudd character in 3D Coat, and is asking me about how I'm going to animate the eyelid.

He asks:
--
When his eye is open, it's completely open. There is no eyelid to see.

The only thing I can think of is to animate his eyelids closing like normal, but animate the opacity of it and his eyelid (material) to abruptly disappear when they are 100% open. That is the closest thing I can think of to replicating how it works in the cartoon.
--
What's the best way to do this? This will be my first time animating a character's face, so I'm out of my league!

Thanks!!

jeric_synergy
03-25-2011, 07:10 PM
Sounds like a plan.

The eyelid controller can drive a gradient controlling the eyelid opacity that ramps rapidly at the end of the controller's range. So, it'd be nice if the controller worked by, say, rotation, although anything you can get into a gradient would be good.

I hope expressions aren't needed.

Dexter2999
03-25-2011, 07:56 PM
heh..."spear and magic helmet" one of my all time favorites.

Hopper
03-25-2011, 09:10 PM
To this day, I can't hear "Barber of Seville" without picturing Bugs Bunny slapping his ears all over Elmer Fudd's bald head. Not that I'd ever want to replace that image... but just sayin' ... :)


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Fy6OaUxDxVg/0.jpg

3dWannabe
03-25-2011, 09:18 PM
Jeric & Megalodon - thanks for the ideas!

The TAFA sounds interesting. I also had http://www.thirdwishsoftware.com/magpiepro.html recommended, as the character may be singing (he's out of "What's Opera Doc").

I guess, besides figuring the best way to animate the eyeballs, my major concern is that the artist understands what he needs to do so that I can accomplish the animation.

I've never bought a model where I would be able to make 'requests' as to how it is designed, so this is a great opportunity for me to learn what is required (as I'm trying to learn to sculpt with 3D Coat also [at the moment, I sculpt like a cat writes poetry])

Are there any tips for him, as to how he implements the model?

I'll hopefully be using mocap from ipiSoft.com re-targeted in MotionBuilder for most of the animation (maybe with RHiggit Pro's rig, if that comes out in time) TA Poseworks was recommended for the hands and fingers.

RebelHill
03-26-2011, 04:56 AM
Personally Id just stick with morfs for this, they work well enough, there's not so much curvature to the eyeball taht it should be ahuge problem, and even if there is a bit of intersection, you can celan that up with a bone adjustment Id wager.

I stay away from teh fading material, as that may well reveal seeming holes in the geometry, esp if the head and lids are one continuous mesh.

The separate eyelid geo could work too, but as the others have said, you'd just take the lid up completely inside the head for the eye open pose... which if you were using morfs, you could still do anyway.

3dWannabe
03-26-2011, 11:01 AM
I've tried MagPie Pro as well as MimicPro for Poser and Lightwave. None work as well as TAFA. You will find that while these first two create automatic lipsync, they add quite a bit more phonemes than required. I found that it took me as much time to clean up the files as it did to create them from scratch in TAFA - and the TAFA stuff just looked better. At the time it didn't really matter which software I was going to use - I just wanted something that was good and quick. TAFA just beat the others hands-down. Of course all of this is JUST my opinion. TAFA was a great bargain at the price I originally paid - $495. And now that it's $200... IMO it's a steal.

I don't work for Mac or Tim, just use TAFA. It took three attempts to wrap my head around it, but obviously the third time was the charm. The ONLY lipsync I'd done was using MimcPro and trying MagPie Pro, but when I finally had that "ah-ha moment" with TAFA, creating my first lipsynced model was incredible. And... it was FUN! I'm just finishing up my first 22 minute short with 15 lipsynced characters and that lipsync took me less than two weeks! I played with it trying out different things for about 5 days before and was just having a ball.

Now I didn't try it with singing, but I would strongly advise downloading the demo and seriously trying it out. If you have any questions about it, you can ask on the TAFA forum or here. I'm still debating on what to use for my next project - it will either be TAFA or Maskarad. It will ultimately depend on how that project is going to be created - and my finances. :)

PS. I used mocap too - from Optitrack to MotionBuilder to LW. Worked great. I would much rather use the Xsens motion capture system, but that's just way too expensive!

I found a thread where you and others commented extensively on TAFA, and that does seem a very good choice. I've downloaded the sample files, and there are a massive # of morphs in the 'Mr. Cool' lightwave file.

Is there a minimum number necessary to get it to work? I think MagPie wanted 17 (but I'm not sure that it auto-split symmetrical morphs), so I'm hoping that there is a smaller minimum sub-set that might be suitable for a comic character.

Of course, if you're going to spend the time to do it, it makes sense to do it right, but the artist has already paid a lot of attention to detail, and I'm not sure he's even providing morphs (I guess making them would be a good learning experience for me).

Or, for that matter, whether the morphs would be created in 3D Coat, or if they should be created from within Lightwave.

I'm a bit clueless, as you can see.


Personally Id just stick with morfs for this, they work well enough, there's not so much curvature to the eyeball taht it should be ahuge problem, and even if there is a bit of intersection, you can celan that up with a bone adjustment Id wager.

I stay away from teh fading material, as that may well reveal seeming holes in the geometry, esp if the head and lids are one continuous mesh.

The separate eyelid geo could work too, but as the others have said, you'd just take the lid up completely inside the head for the eye open pose... which if you were using morfs, you could still do anyway.

Thanks for the advise.

BTW - unless RHiggit Pro will be out in the next few days, I've got to start with some skeleton as I'll be pulling in mocap from ipisoft and re-targeting in MotionBuilder.

Should I start with that free skeleton you have on your site, or get RHiggit Lite and use what's in it? The Pro version seems very cool (esp for use with MB) - and I'd like to minimize drastic changes (as I expect the Pro will be quite a bit different) and I'm already in over my head!

Thanks!

jeric_synergy
03-26-2011, 10:45 PM
What would also help are the two books on Cartoon Character Creation by Jonny Gorden:

http://www.amazon.com/LightWave-Cartoon-Character-Creation-Texturing/dp/155622253X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1301175791&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/LightWave-Cartoon-Character-Creation-Animation/dp/1556222548/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1301175791&sr=1-1

Second that.

geo_n
03-27-2011, 01:58 AM
This model is from AbnRanger? He made it downloadable somewhere? I think I would go with morphs.

3dWannabe
03-27-2011, 09:29 AM
This model is from AbnRanger? He made it downloadable somewhere? I think I would go with morphs.
Actually I tried to duplicate his tutorial, and lacking the skill decided to purchase it from him.

Very nice guy - seems to be gong the extra mile in paying attention to detail to really make it a great model (above and beyond that original tutorial).

Yes, morphs seem to be the consensus.

daforum
03-27-2011, 03:15 PM
There's also Papagayo for lipsyncing
http://www.lostmarble.com/papagayo/index.shtml

and there's a Papagayo importer script from Dodgy http://www.mikegreen.name/
Papagayo Importer v1.2