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circleofsmoke
03-04-2011, 08:19 AM
Is it just me? I feel sad when I look through the 10 upgrade cant find any changes to speak of that warrant an upgrade fee and the physics is still laughable and crashes every time you do anything complex, all that hot air around core and the only significant change is the interface color - when does core really come out??

grumble grumble . . . .

JohnMarchant
03-04-2011, 08:26 AM
I take it you are using it on a MAC, i know there are some problems with the MAC version, I take it Core is the problem for you, not LW 10 itself

geo_n
03-04-2011, 08:40 AM
The lw 10 that's available now is surely not the final build you will expect from the 10.xxx series. ;)

Chris S. (Fez)
03-04-2011, 08:48 AM
In addition to bug fixes, there is really useful stuff coming for LW10.x. Look at the latest announcements in the Core forum.

BlueApple
03-04-2011, 09:18 AM
@circleofsmoke
You are not the only one. Given what I do, LW10.x isn't worth my money when x = 0 becuase it does little to improve my current setup of 9.6 and FPrime. I'll take another look when the x increments up a bit.

Snosrap
03-04-2011, 09:23 AM
Is it just me? I feel sad when I look through the 10 upgrade cant find any changes to speak of that warrant an upgrade fee and the physics is still laughable and crashes every time you do anything complex, all that hot air around core and the only significant change is the interface color - when does core really come out??

grumble grumble . . . .

So you never render? The linear color workflow is worth the price of addmission. My renders are leaps better. VPR is great for setting up your lights and surfaces. Yeah, nothing to shout about with Modeler -blur weightmaps -we've had plugins for that for some time. We upgraded 5 seats and I've been using it in production for the last month and come Monday we are pushing it out to the rest of the team. Point upgrades and Core later in the year will be the icing on the cake.

cagey5
03-04-2011, 09:28 AM
I thought the official line on point releases now was no new features, just bug fixes. New features are meant to be rolled into the next ordinal release.

JohnMarchant
03-04-2011, 09:29 AM
@circleofsmoke
You are not the only one. Given what I do, LW10.x isn't worth my money when x = 0 becuase it does little to improve my current setup of 9.6 and FPrime. I'll take another look when the x increments up a bit.

If you have LW 9.6.1 and FPrime when some of the shine of LW10 will not be there for you but Linear colour workflow as has been said is great once you understand it. VPR is still good even if you have FPrime as it will show more than FPrime alone will. Yes there are improvements that are needed and will come in the LW 10/Core Cycle.

My only drawback is i want modeler addressed some tools need some TLC and indeed some could be merged but overall Modeler for me needs allot more TLC which i hope will come in this cycle.

colkai
03-04-2011, 12:53 PM
As I understand it, Modeler per se will not receive any updates / new features and CORE is supposed to be "all that" once it comes out.
Or at least, that's the impression that i've gotten from what has been said on these forums, that CORE will be "the future" and LW10 modeler is what it is.
Given the "features only in ordinal releases" tack, it seems likely.

IMHO, I'd be surprised if you saw any shift to modeler before LW11, if at all, I should imagine from LW11 on, they'd be looking to bring CORE more forward.

Of course, it is possible they may change their mind about the direction they wish to take, that would not exactly be without precedence.

"Forward looking and subject to change" and all that you know?

wesleycorgi
03-04-2011, 03:51 PM
I find that LW10 hit my sweet spot (VPR, stereo anaglyph in viewport, 3D mouse support, etc. --- still wrapping my head around linear workflow) for the type of stuff I do. It has been a saving grace (otherwise, I would be grumbling about Core and what the hell happened in these two years). For many months, I was using the beta versions of LW classic with few hiccups.

I am a bit forward looking with the dot releases of LW10, since the dot releases of LW 9 were pretty incredible. I think that we won't see that in LW classic, but Core should see some interesting advances in it's v1 life span. And I like what I am hearing/seeing behind the veiled curtain of Hard Core.

This is a transitional phase for NT. As a longtime Mac user, I feel like I am reliving when Apple transitioned from OS 9 to OS X. Remember how ancient OS 9 was becoming and how thin the first version of OS X was?

Apple took their time to make a rock solid OS. It took a few iterations before OS X kicked arse whilst OS 9 gave a bit of continuity. Apple had their winning iPod business to help them during this development, NT has Tricaster to keep them anchored. Apple had their loyal devotees who stuck with them through thick and thin, and so does Lightwave.

CaptainMarlowe
03-04-2011, 10:42 PM
I'm really happy with LW10, as far as I'm concerned. I didn't own FPrime, so VPR is a ry welcome feature. Linear workflow is also a huge time saver for interior renderings.
And, I also like what I see behind the HC curtains for Core.
My only concern, now, is wether Graham will update HD INstance in 64 bits for Mac, as I use HDI intensively? He promised me he was working on it, but that was two months ago and no news since then...
But a working 64-bits version of HDInstance in VPR would be fantastic.

Phil
03-05-2011, 12:44 AM
My only concern, now, is wether Graham will update HD INstance in 64 bits for Mac, as I use HDI intensively? He promised me he was working on it, but that was two months ago and no news since then...
But a working 64-bits version of HDInstance in VPR would be fantastic.

He's working on it. :devil:

DPInstance also has a tremendous amount going for it, and Denis is clearly talented.

inquisitive
03-05-2011, 01:02 AM
If you have LW 9.6.1 and FPrime when some of the shine of LW10 will not be there for you but Linear colour workflow as has been said is great once you understand it. VPR is still good even if you have FPrime as it will show more than FPrime alone will. Yes there are improvements that are needed and will come in the LW 10/Core Cycle.

My only drawback is i want modeler addressed some tools need some TLC and indeed some could be merged but overall Modeler for me needs allot more TLC which i hope will come in this cycle.


Did LW 9.6.1 ever got released? What is the difference between LW 9.6 and LW 9.6.1 (even if it still is in beta)?

inquisitive
03-05-2011, 01:11 AM
If I had the money I would just upgrade to LW10 - those of us that have been Newtek customers for many years, know that eventually they make it right. Which version was it that we waited a year for and paid upfront? was it LW9 (I have already forgotten ;) )

Cageman
03-05-2011, 01:40 AM
LW10 works pretty well for us so far in production. LCW is the number one thing that really makes a huge difference from LW9.x.

That said, there are obviously some bugs here and there. No real showstoppers as of yet. I saw that some of the bugs have been fixed but not yet rolled out to HC.

Phil
03-05-2011, 02:03 AM
Did LW 9.6.1 ever got released? What is the difference between LW 9.6 and LW 9.6.1 (even if it still is in beta)?

9.6.1 remains in beta. It will be released. I guess that they are trying to include all the fixes discovered whilst working on 10.0

For the most part, 9.6.1 is simply a bug fix of 9.6, but NewTek also decided to use this point release to meet the commitment to a 64-bit version of LW 9.x for Mac. Since the only supported system for graphical 64-bit applications on Mac is via Cocoa, that's what they have ended up having to do - migrate the code to Objective-C.

Even Luxology, with their association with Apple and XCode (http://developer.apple.com/business/macmarket/modo.html), and their relatively fresh codebase have found the Cocoa migration to be non-trivial (based on comments from the 501 release, suggesting 501 SP1 to be the first usable, if unstable, Cocoa-based Modo release)

circleofsmoke
03-05-2011, 05:22 AM
lightwave 9.6.1 has antialiased menus

circleofsmoke
03-05-2011, 05:26 AM
I take it on the chin re the rendering yes its good probably great but I upgraded specifically for the physics - LW9 crashes on the mac a lot of the time and LW10 physics are the same - CORE Crashes on both my machines as it launches - and I cant access the CORE forum (and I'm not sure I'm eligible either as an academic upgrader) to get any feedback therefore I'm now miserable

sammael
03-05-2011, 06:07 AM
Just installed it yesterday, granted I'm running fairly old hardware now (core 2 duo @ 3ghz) but VPR seems slow...

How is the performance on something like an i7?

So far i'm not all that impressed.

akademus
03-05-2011, 06:21 AM
Still reluctant to use it in production. I'm waiting for a small meaningless project to give it a proper spin...

Cageman
03-05-2011, 10:13 AM
Just installed it yesterday, granted I'm running fairly old hardware now (core 2 duo @ 3ghz) but VPR seems slow...

How is the performance on something like an i7?

So far i'm not all that impressed.

I'm on a QuadCore Q6600 @ 2.4GHz at home and VPR is ok. The i7 940 I have at work is at least twice as fast with both VPR and F9/F10 rendering. I've thrown som pretty busy productionscenes at VPR and it has been fairly fast. Alot faster than a general F9, but since I do not have FPrime, nor personaly or at work, I can't really make a comparsion.

That said, the nr1 reason for us to go ahead with LW10 instead of sticking with LW9.6 is LCW. From a usefullness perspective, I think LCW wins well over VPR, especially with the fact that alot of the compositing is done in Nuke, which, by default, works in Linear colorspace (but displays in sRGB).

Another thing that has been fixed in LW10 is the memoryleaks with L-Script using UIs in LW9.6 x64 when you have lots and lots of stuff in your scene.

prometheus
03-06-2011, 04:45 AM
I still have to use LW 10 much more to give a proper evaluation.

I just recently installed it at work and it has helped me tweak lighting and shading in a way fprime couldnīt, and thatīs because of that fprime doesnīt render vertex normal map smoothing correctly, lightwave perspective cam and native and VPR render does, so Itīs easier to get the right look now without using fprime only to find that it doesnīt match the shading in lightwave renderer.

Fprime is by far much smoother in workflow and much faster with initial progressive render refinement and the ease to pick surfaces in the viewport and change materials, so in some scenes I prefer to use that.

I still have to evaluate the linear color space, and mdd improvements.
I sure would like to see the bullet engine built in with lightwave 10 if possible and not only have to use core and port it over for the next cycles.

The virtual stuff is unknown to me if I really will have any use for it?
unless buying in to expensive cams? or work at a studio with that kind of stuff.

The VPR is really awesome thou with hypervoxels and volumetrics lights and turbulence fluids even thou turbulence is third party.
Turbulence fluids and vpr is the most fun feature stuff right now.

Thereīs a few old features that I would like to be revamped, and that is the hypervoxels system,skytracer and particle flow system.
A fluid system for liquids is desperatly needed too me thinks, to ensure statements done when talking about tools out of the box.

Michael

lardbros
03-06-2011, 04:52 AM
Just installed it yesterday, granted I'm running fairly old hardware now (core 2 duo @ 3ghz) but VPR seems slow...

How is the performance on something like an i7?

So far i'm not all that impressed.

On my old core2duo machine it's pretty fast... granted, if you crank up your settings and use lots of reflection etc it can slow down, but it's fairly fast... then on my i7 laptop it flies... at work on my 12 core xeon, it's beautiful! :D

F-Prime is probably still faster for it's GI and stuff, but VPR supports nearly everything, and isn't a final renderer as yet, it's perfect for previews though, and is very fast to look at your texturing and stuff!

I can't believe people moan about the lack of features... VPR and Linear workflow are enough for me... and you get a lot more besides! CORE when it comes out, and many, many bug fixes, speed enhancements etc, etc!

geo_n
03-06-2011, 06:27 AM
Just had a wierd problem with lw 9.6 that when I click the calculate for dyanamics for a scene I was testing, lw 9.6 had instant crash.
Opened in lw 10 no crash on calculation. Saved it. Now open in lw 9.6 and problem is gone.
lw 10 fixed the scene somehow. Pretty wierd.

frantbk
03-06-2011, 08:13 AM
So you never render? The linear color workflow is worth the price of addmission. My renders are leaps better. VPR is great for setting up your lights and surfaces. Yeah, nothing to shout about with Modeler -blur weightmaps -we've had plugins for that for some time. We upgraded 5 seats and I've been using it in production for the last month and come Monday we are pushing it out to the rest of the team. Point upgrades and Core later in the year will be the icing on the cake.

Your post and all the others make a good point that NewTek doesn't seem to be listening to. Layout seems to be the heavy lifter for lightwave. Because layout and modeler are two different programs maybe it is time for NewTek to break to two apart and sell them as modules and complete package.

I personally don't see that Newtek would be hurt by breaking modeler and layout into different packages.

prometheus
03-06-2011, 08:17 AM
Your post and all the others make a good point that NewTek doesn't seem to be listening to. Layout seems to be the heavy lifter for lightwave. Because layout and modeler are two different programs maybe it is time for NewTek to break to two apart and sell them as modules and complete package.

I personally don't see that Newtek would be hurt by breaking modeler and layout into different packages.

I personally donīt understand your point here?, why would they consider that?

getting modeler and layout to work as good as it can until core is finished sounds like the most uncomplicated thing to do, why mess things up?

Michael

Titus
03-06-2011, 08:28 AM
I personally don't see that Newtek would be hurt by breaking modeler and layout into different packages.

NT should be making stronger programs, not weaker.

frantbk
03-06-2011, 09:39 AM
I personally donīt understand your point here?, why would they consider that?

getting modeler and layout to work as good as it can until core is finished sounds like the most uncomplicated thing to do, why mess things up?

Michael

What work has NewTek done with modeler to make it better? What improvements has NewTek made to the hub program?

Can anyone here name 3-to-5 functions in modeler that have had core technology applied to it? From what little I can find out, all the core technology is being applied to layout.

Besides nothing is written in stone that unified-lightwave (Lightwave 3D Core) will be successful from day one of its release.

Also if you look at all of the R&D effort NT has in layout it makes sense to spin layout off as a product of its own once unified-lightwave (lightwave 3D Core) is release. NewTek should be questioning its customer base to find out how many customers use Lightwave only as a rendering unit v. a complete package.

frantbk
03-06-2011, 09:44 AM
NT should be making stronger programs, not weaker.

Whats weaker then the current lightwave? Lightwave 10 is 3 programs (modeler, hub, and layout) stuck together as on package that has zero R&D as a modeling program. A hub system that causes more problems then it solved, and a layout system that has had all of the R&D money thrown at it for the last 5 years. Lightwave 10 as a complete package is as weak as they come. When did NT work on lightwave 9.xx - 10 and make it stronger as a complete package?

sammael
03-07-2011, 01:08 AM
I'm on a QuadCore Q6600 @ 2.4GHz at home and VPR is ok. The i7 940 I have at work is at least twice as fast with both VPR and F9/F10 rendering.

Sounds like an i7 chip would increase current performance by about four times, it may be worth thinking about an upgrade.


On my old core2duo machine it's pretty fast... granted, if you crank up your settings and use lots of reflection etc it can slow down, but it's fairly fast... then on my i7 laptop it flies... at work on my 12 core xeon, it's beautiful! :D

F-Prime is probably still faster for it's GI and stuff, but VPR supports nearly everything, and isn't a final renderer as yet, it's perfect for previews though, and is very fast to look at your texturing and stuff!

I can't believe people moan about the lack of features... VPR and Linear workflow are enough for me... and you get a lot more besides! CORE when it comes out, and many, many bug fixes, speed enhancements etc, etc!

I must admit that so far I have only tested more detailed surfaces with skin materials and so on. I guess the real test will be previewing and tweaking during development.

As for features, personally I would like to see updates to more of the older outdated stuff. Someone mentioned skytracer and how improving fiber fx or the multitude of other features that have seen no love for years. And CORE well... the value of CORE remains to be seen.

colkai
03-07-2011, 04:03 AM
When did NT work on lightwave 9.xx - 10 and make it stronger as a complete package?

VPR and linear colour space make Layout stronger, so I guess by definition, LW10 Is stronger.
That said, you will get ZERO argument from me that modeler remains, consistently, languishing in development as focus stays strictly on Layout and rendering.
I do not see Newtek EVER updating modeler to any degree as CORE will be their new toy and no doubt any "modeling" development will be there rather than on the 'legacy' modeler program.

It doesn't negate LW9's usefulness, but it sure as heck doesn't give folks who model primarily a big incentive to upgrade to LW10. As LW10 is released, Newtek have said, no new features will be introduced in point fixes in the past. This means any modeler development of any kind, one has to presume, will only, at the earliest, likely be from LW11 onwards.

Thus my decampment from the constantly optimistic, to the "I'll believe it when it's in there" section of the community.

hrgiger
03-07-2011, 04:19 AM
It doesn't negate LW9's usefulness, but it sure as heck doesn't give folks who model primarily a big incentive to upgrade to LW10.

Well that remains to be seen. The CORE module has yet to be released and as you have pointed out, this is where any changes to Lightwave's modeling capabilities will be found. As well as the new UV tools (which for us Lightwavers has always been a function in modeler).


As LW10 is released, Newtek have said, no new features will be introduced in point fixes in the past. This means any modeler development of any kind, one has to presume, will only, at the earliest, likely be from LW11 onwards.



Actually there will be point releases for Lightwave 10, but only for hardcore members. Which for right now, is everyone who has upgraded to Lightwave 10.

lardbros
03-07-2011, 06:20 AM
Sounds like an i7 chip would increase current performance by about four times, it may be worth thinking about an upgrade.



I must admit that so far I have only tested more detailed surfaces with skin materials and so on. I guess the real test will be previewing and tweaking during development.

As for features, personally I would like to see updates to more of the older outdated stuff. Someone mentioned skytracer and how improving fiber fx or the multitude of other features that have seen no love for years. And CORE well... the value of CORE remains to be seen.

If you're previewing radiosity settings then make sure draft mode is on. It's more than good enough for previews... and much, much quicker.

About skytracer... I thought it currently worked in VPR.. but I might be wrong. Also, some of the shaders under the standard surface editor work too... like BESM and Halftone :) Some are slightly unstable, but I'm certain they are sorting this as we speak!

prometheus
03-07-2011, 06:41 AM
modeling tools in Core is under development and added during cycles, so thereīs more need to focus on layout then modeler, since you can use core to model too and load to lightwave 10.
and thereīs still a lot of plugins to enhance modeler, but sure..there are some improvements you would like to see in the "Old modeler"

The VPR Can render skytracer and does so much faster than viper, try it out in full viewport mode..now if that only was ogo taiki wich I heard should work to..most certainly slower thou, ozone 4 and 5 is suppose to work with vpr too.

yes fiber fx could use some better modeling/combing styling tools both in modeler and directly in layout, adding individual clusters to drag,bend,scale and cut directly in layout preferably or at least in modeler.
true arts hair styling tools seems much better than fiber fx in modeler.

with turbulence fluids available I can see only a few things that I think is important ..that is liquid fluids, crowd-system, getting better hard-fx or getting bullet engine in LW10, L-systems and revamping hypervoxels and the particle system wich also need a removal of the 1000 000 particle limit or should I say add more.
Skytracer is outdated, and even thou ozone and vue x-stream is out there..I would really see something within lightwave.

Michael

frantbk
03-07-2011, 07:34 AM
VPR and linear colour space make Layout stronger, so I guess by definition, LW10 Is stronger.
That said, you will get ZERO argument from me that modeler remains, consistently, languishing in development as focus stays strictly on Layout and rendering.
I do not see Newtek EVER updating modeler to any degree as CORE will be their new toy and no doubt any "modeling" development will be there rather than on the 'legacy' modeler program.

It doesn't negate LW9's usefulness, but it sure as heck doesn't give folks who model primarily a big incentive to upgrade to LW10. As LW10 is released, Newtek have said, no new features will be introduced in point fixes in the past. This means any modeler development of any kind, one has to presume, will only, at the earliest, likely be from LW11 onwards.

Thus my decampment from the constantly optimistic, to the "I'll believe it when it's in there" section of the community.

We both agree, layout is the back bone of lightwave 9.x-10. Modeler and Hub are 2 programs that most people don't need because many users have turned to modo, or something else.

What then would be the problem of spinning off modeler from lightwave after unified-lightwave (Lightwave 3D Core) is released? According to the hardcore members lightwave 10 & Core will be packaged as one for the next several years while NT works on Core. Because of this R&D will have to be maintained on lightwave 10 to meet the needs of the industry. At what point in time wil NT stop working on layout? Two years from now?,...five years from now?

If you think about it unified-lightwave (lightwave 3D Core) will have to compete with maya, Max, Houdini, and lightwave 10's layout over the next several years.

frantbk
03-07-2011, 07:38 AM
modeling tools in Core is under development and added during cycles, so thereīs more need to focus on layout then modeler, since you can use core to model too and load to lightwave 10.
and thereīs still a lot of plugins to enhance modeler, but sure..there are some improvements you would like to see in the "Old modeler"

The VPR Can render skytracer and does so much faster than viper, try it out in full viewport mode..now if that only was ogo taiki wich I heard should work to..most certainly slower thou, ozone 4 and 5 is suppose to work with vpr too.

yes fiber fx could use some better modeling/combing styling tools both in modeler and directly in layout, adding individual clusters to drag,bend,scale and cut directly in layout preferably or at least in modeler.
true arts hair styling tools seems much better than fiber fx in modeler.

with turbulence fluids available I can see only a few things that I think is important ..that is liquid fluids, crowd-system, getting better hard-fx or getting bullet engine in LW10, L-systems and revamping hypervoxels and the particle system wich also need a removal of the 1000 000 particle limit or should I say add more.
Skytracer is outdated, and even thou ozone and vue x-stream is out there..I would really see something within lightwave.

Michael

Yes, but can unified-lightwave (lightwave 3D Core) pass information through the Hub to layout? If not then what is the point of keeping the Hub and modoler in the package?

If there is a market for a low cost modeling tool then modeler could be used to meet that need and become a entry level product.

probiner
03-07-2011, 08:10 AM
Yups it's mostly a scene manager.
I guess for some only LWCAD makes it different than saying that is Modo/Whatever + Layout.

Jan19
03-07-2011, 09:13 PM
Reactions...I LOVE it!!! :-)))

It's faster, smoother, and I can rail extrude like a champ! :-)))

It came, it came! Thanks, Newtek.

Serling
03-07-2011, 11:59 PM
@circleofsmoke
You are not the only one. Given what I do, LW10.x isn't worth my money when x = 0 becuase it does little to improve my current setup of 9.6 and FPrime. I'll take another look when the x increments up a bit.

Linear workflow is the biggest reason to upgrade. Now, if I can just get Lightwave to show me what Photoshop is seeing. :)

beradical
03-08-2011, 01:49 AM
I am wondering if anyone has experienced this. I just got a package in the mail with LW10 DVD enclose and a letter saying: Congratulations on your purchase of NewTek LightWave 10... Don't get me wrong, I would like to just open it and see if it's the full usable version, but haven't received a bill, purchased the upgrade or see a bill on my CC statement indicating that I was billed for it. Maybe it's a free upg with my lic? Dunno. But I'm excited to try it out if I won't be billed for it.

sammael
03-08-2011, 05:39 AM
If you're previewing radiosity settings then make sure draft mode is on. It's more than good enough for previews... and much, much quicker.

About skytracer... I thought it currently worked in VPR.. but I might be wrong. Also, some of the shaders under the standard surface editor work too... like BESM and Halftone :) Some are slightly unstable, but I'm certain they are sorting this as we speak!

What I was trying to imply is that skytracer is due for an overhaul along with many other aspects of layout which could potentially be very cool. At the moment there are a lot of tools with outdated (slow) workflows and which the overall result could be far better. Many aspects of Lightwave are far below par with other industry standard tools.
Each Lightwave update concentrates on a few great key features but many aspects are overlooked time and time again. A one step forward two steps back sort of scenario which can be frustrating.
Like many others, I feel like more should have gone in to this release before shipping.

I realize there are many reasons why this does not occur but it would be nice to see updates with a much broader scope, tweaking/increasing the power and workflow of features accross the board so fewer tools slip behind. Core will hopefully resolve all this eventually, that is provided NT does not fall into the same trap...

Apologies for raising this same old arguement and I do realize most other software companies are guilty of the same to varying degrees but I just cant kick that disappointed feeling.

LW 10 / Core is ok so far, the new features are great but it is disappointing at the same time for other reasons. It is enough to feel like there might be hope for the future but not enough to feel assured with confidence.

lardbros
03-08-2011, 06:04 AM
What I was trying to imply is that skytracer is due for an overhaul along with many other aspects of layout which could potentially be very cool. At the moment there are a lot of tools with outdated (slow) workflows and which the overall result could be far better. Many aspects of Lightwave are far below par with other industry standard tools.
Each Lightwave update concentrates on a few great key features but many aspects are overlooked time and time again. A one step forward two steps back sort of scenario which can be frustrating.
Like many others, I feel like more should have gone in to this release before shipping.

I realize there are many reasons why this does not occur but it would be nice to see updates with a much broader scope, tweaking/increasing the power and workflow of features accross the board so fewer tools slip behind. Core will hopefully resolve all this eventually, that is provided NT does not fall into the same trap...

Apologies for raising this same old arguement and I do realize most other software companies are guilty of the same to varying degrees but I just cant kick that disappointed feeling.

LW 10 / Core is ok so far, the new features are great but it is disappointing at the same time for other reasons. It is enough to feel like there might be hope for the future but not enough to feel assured with confidence.

Ahhhh, okay... I'm on your wavelength now! I completely agree with you... many things in Lightwave need a complete overhaul, but where on earth can they start? They have done radiosity and lighting, done FG, done VPR, so the renderer is ALMOST covered, especially with the new LCS stuff... all we need is proper caustics and that might be it for the renderer...

but the list of other overhauls to perform is huuuuuge:

HyperVoxels
Particles
Skytracer
Dynamics
Modeller (everything from UV to modelling tools)
Animation...

and these are just the things in my wanted list... and certainly not exhaustive!

Basically, I understand your point entirely... but VPR with Linear Workflow isn't disappointing, to me anyway ... :D

prometheus
03-08-2011, 07:09 AM
lardbros and samuael, I agree with you guys..
But I do also understand the position and time development status they been in.
Thereīs been extensive work on lighting, materials and rendering, so you might think It should be enough for quite some time now, (it probably will not be enough still)

But a focus on a broader aspect over the whole software would be nice, and I am also a little frustrated that particles, hypervoxels and skytracer are so old in the game..at least thatīs what I feel.

We will see if and where these tools get attention, in the new core or in lightwave 10, personally I believe they could pull it off and do some improvements within the 10 cycle, still a long way for core, but Im not the tech guy so I canīt give any certified opinions on it.
and I still miss L-systems for modeling stuff and particle flows or even hair guides:)

Michael

Cageman
03-08-2011, 11:44 AM
Sounds like an i7 chip would increase current performance by about four times, it may be worth thinking about an upgrade.

Yeah...

Well... I expect to get my new PC sometime during this month. It's been ordered. :)

Intel Core i7-970 (6 cores, 12 threads) and 12GB ram. Looking forward to it. :)

macahuna
03-08-2011, 12:08 PM
The only problem I have with LW10 is that I can't add new, er, old plugins on my Mac. I get all kinds of grief when I try to open it in 32-bit.

Of course, it's painfully true that I could be overlooking something.

I don't have FPrime, so VPR is like another world for me - love it!

Snosrap
03-08-2011, 08:24 PM
I don't have FPrime, so VPR is like another world for me - love it!Now you know why we all went nuts over FPrime when it first came out so many moons ago now. :D

realgray
03-08-2011, 08:35 PM
@Cageman Curious, what graphics card are you thinking about?

sammael
03-09-2011, 04:32 PM
Ahhhh, okay... I'm on your wavelength now! I completely agree with you... many things in Lightwave need a complete overhaul, but where on earth can they start? They have done radiosity and lighting, done FG, done VPR, so the renderer is ALMOST covered, especially with the new LCS stuff... all we need is proper caustics and that might be it for the renderer...

but the list of other overhauls to perform is huuuuuge:

HyperVoxels
Particles
Skytracer
Dynamics
Modeller (everything from UV to modelling tools)
Animation...

and these are just the things in my wanted list... and certainly not exhaustive!

Basically, I understand your point entirely... but VPR with Linear Workflow isn't disappointing, to me anyway ... :D

Yep I love the new surfacing, lighting and rendering tools since lightwave 9 and VPR has massive potential if they keep it up to date.
But overall I'm not sure that the list of features which needs improving has been reduced since new features have been added which now need improving as well (ie fiber fx).
If they fixed everything on your wanted list I would be a satisfied customer.
The most frustrating thing is that everyone wants Lightwave to suceed but it still remains hanging in the balence, succeeding in some ways and failing in others.


Yeah...

Well... I expect to get my new PC sometime during this month. It's been ordered. :)

Intel Core i7-970 (6 cores, 12 threads) and 12GB ram. Looking forward to it. :)

That sounds good, they are still a bit pricey here for me to justify at the moment. I'm not sure whether to just go with an i7 2600k or wait until the 6 core pricing drops a bit. Could almost get duel xeon for the price of a six core except that the motherboard and ram would be more expensive. The usual upgrade dilemma...

Lewis
03-10-2011, 03:33 PM
Just installed it yesterday, granted I'm running fairly old hardware now (core 2 duo @ 3ghz) but VPR seems slow...

How is the performance on something like an i7?

So far i'm not all that impressed.

Here is speed of VPR on my i7 machine (scene is 2.5 million polys/radiosity/HDRI)
http://www.lewis.tomsoft.hr/temp/LW/C6_VPR.mp4.mov

Cageman
03-10-2011, 03:43 PM
@Cageman Curious, what graphics card are you thinking about?

Oh... I will take my current GFX Card which is a pretty lowend one, but still performs pretty OK in LW-land.. GeForce GTS 250.

:)

Dreamer
03-10-2011, 03:45 PM
Lewis
I am curious as to why you changed the color scheme of LW10 to look like 9.6?

Snosrap
03-10-2011, 07:48 PM
Lewis
I am curious as to why you changed the color scheme of LW10 to look like 9.6?
I kind of like it, with the exception of the blue. :D

Lewis
03-11-2011, 12:15 AM
Lewis
I am curious as to why you changed the color scheme of LW10 to look like 9.6?

'coz i don't like working in very Dark interface, and 'coz we can change all now :).

mclarkson
03-23-2011, 04:13 PM
VPR doesn't seem to be using the GPUs at all then? It's strictly CPU?

Have they finally made an easy way to change the UI colors? Where is it hiding please?

Are Bullet dynamics available, now? Or are we waiting for CORE?

Dreamer
03-23-2011, 04:22 PM
Is there a way to save color sets, like was done in Core?

Lewis
03-24-2011, 01:11 AM
- Yes VPR is CPU based
- Changing UI colors is in HUB options.
- Also dee made interactive flash (is it flash?) free tool which can give instant visual feedback about GUI colors and has many presets included.

speismonqui
03-24-2011, 12:36 PM
Physics Bullet dynamics are CORE exclusively:
http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/lw10.php

also the new (and most expected) UV tools

Netvudu
03-24-2011, 03:46 PM
What I donīt like from VPR when compared to Fprime is that Worleyīs tool only used free CPU cycles so I would never feel it was stopping me while fiddling with anything in my scene. VPR is not as smart, and it sometimes halts a bit my machine. Iīve seen my own share of similar tools and most of them are even more intrusive than VPR, but still, I would like it to feel even "lighter".

mclarkson
03-24-2011, 03:54 PM
VPR is not very 'smart' and will do a lot of redraws that it doesn't really have to do - opening a panel on a different monitor, or a non-overlapping window, for example, will trigger a redraw, at least on my system.

Lewis
03-24-2011, 04:20 PM
What I donīt like from VPR when compared to Fprime is that Worleyīs tool only used free CPU cycles so I would never feel it was stopping me while fiddling with anything in my scene. VPR is not as smart, and it sometimes halts a bit my machine. Iīve seen my own share of similar tools and most of them are even more intrusive than VPR, but still, I would like it to feel even "lighter".

:agree: It would be cool if VPR could internally work as "LOW" on multithreading option so that it's always 2ndary if we move mouse or something else on screen. That way it would still render fast when we stop moving on scene and yet it wouldn't be so intrusive and impacting performance on view-port.

But NT probably knows that and they are surely updating VPR as we speak :).

Netvudu
03-24-2011, 09:56 PM
I donīt know Lewis, we are speaking quite late...the guys have to sleep sometimes, you know :D

Lewis
03-25-2011, 01:15 AM
I donīt know Lewis, we are speaking quite late...the guys have to sleep sometimes, you know :D

That's why NT has DEVs all over the world (Different Time Zones) so someone is ALWAYS working on LW, even on weekends :D.

monovich
03-25-2011, 06:07 PM
Just fired up Ogo_Taiki in LW10 32. The good news is it still works. The bad news is no VPR. :(
Anyone else get that to work? I'm using 1.24B (from 2006! lol). Is there a newer version out there by chance?

monovich
03-25-2011, 06:25 PM
whoa wait a sec. at least SOME Taiki scenes do work in VPR. sweet! Some choke but I'm not sure which ones and what causes it.

This is an old T.Rex scene. ;)

Tony3d
03-25-2011, 11:01 PM
I am totally confused about LW10, and this core thing. If I upgrade to LW10 from 9.6 what the hell do I get? I am currently looking very seriously at Modo because I don't have a clue what the hell Newtek is doing. Looks to me like a bunch of blabbering that won't really yield anything useful till they suck a lot more money out of us. Plus I really don't like the new upgrade price of $695.00! Even more reason to switch to Modo.

Snosrap
03-26-2011, 12:39 AM
I am totally confused about LW10, and this core thing. If I upgrade to LW10 from 9.6 what the hell do I get? I am currently looking very seriously at Modo because I don't have a clue what the hell Newtek is doing. Looks to me like a bunch of blabbering that won't really yield anything useful till they suck a lot more money out of us. Plus I really don't like the new upgrade price of $695.00! Even more reason to switch to Modo.
Upgrades now are $495 and that upgrade price is locked in for the next 5 upgrade cycles. If you upgrade you'll have access to the beta of Core now and will receive the shipping version later in the year. I have modo and it's a great app too but LW is the more complete product at the moment. modo is missing a lot, but what is there works really well. No bones, no HV's, no cloth dynamics etc. etc., so if you need that stuff you are out of luck with modo. LW10 really rocks IMO. VPR is really nice, I no longer use FPrime.

lino.grandi
03-26-2011, 03:40 AM
I am totally confused about LW10, and this core thing. If I upgrade to LW10 from 9.6 what the hell do I get? I am currently looking very seriously at Modo because I don't have a clue what the hell Newtek is doing. Looks to me like a bunch of blabbering that won't really yield anything useful till they suck a lot more money out of us. Plus I really don't like the new upgrade price of $695.00! Even more reason to switch to Modo.

If you speak like that, looks like you're really totally confused.

While is a very good thing to express opinions, would be great to see them expressed in a respectful way. Which is not the case.

NewTek has done and is doing a lot to make LW10 the best LightWave EVER.

And it's this kind of "blabbering that won't really yield anything useful", to use your own words.

I was very tempted to just delete your message. But I think we should keep it to show a good example of a very bad way to express an opinion.

Yog
03-26-2011, 04:25 AM
I was very tempted to just delete your message. But I think we should keep it to show a good example of a very bad way to express an opinion.
And I think this is a very good example of how some Newtek representatives increasingly appear to be getting fixated over the individual words within their customers posts, rather than appear to take on board the very real concern behind those posts.

Pille
03-26-2011, 04:29 AM
at first, sorry for my bad english. i think the price for the update is ok. there are many new features. Ik goes better, vpr, linear color space, mdd, core. sometimes people say: "its impossible to make charcter animation in LW". I think they are Wrong. This talking is the reason that are in germany not very much lightwave user, but the comunity in Germany is very good.
Please don,t tell so many bad things about my Lw baby. I use it for many years (lightwave 4.0) and it is a hot love. grettings from Germany.

geo_n
03-26-2011, 04:29 AM
I am totally confused about LW10, and this core thing. If I upgrade to LW10 from 9.6 what the hell do I get? I am currently looking very seriously at Modo because I don't have a clue what the hell Newtek is doing. Looks to me like a bunch of blabbering that won't really yield anything useful till they suck a lot more money out of us. Plus I really don't like the new upgrade price of $695.00! Even more reason to switch to Modo.

Your thread about modo and lw 10 vanished and so did our replies. Incase you didn't read our replies, mine was stick with lightwave. There's nothing that can't be done in modo that can't be done in lightwave especially if in your case doing product shots and stills. Why waste 14 years of experience only to move on to a very similar product. I would move to 3dmax, xsi, maya instead that offers substantially more.

Tony3d
03-26-2011, 06:14 AM
Upgrades now are $495 and that upgrade price is locked in for the next 5 upgrade cycles. If you upgrade you'll have access to the beta of Core now and will receive the shipping version later in the year. I have modo and it's a great app too but LW is the more complete product at the moment. modo is missing a lot, but what is there works really well. No bones, no HV's, no cloth dynamics etc. etc., so if you need that stuff you are out of luck with modo. LW10 really rocks IMO. VPR is really nice, I no longer use FPrime.

I produce mostly photo real product renders, the rest is really unimportant to me. When you say the next 5 upgrade cycles you are most likely referring to the next 5 service packs, not numerical upgrade cycles which would take you to LW 15. Well if they start charging me for service packs I am most definitely out! Why would I pay to have bugs fixed that I already payed for. That would be a really poor decision on Newtek's part. Now if that meant numerical cycles which did bring you to 15, that would be something I would consider. I'm pretty sure knowing Newtek it's the service packs, and that's certainly no deal, and completely unacceptable to me, and should be to everyone else. I really don't want to leave Lightwave after all these years, but it's these type of decisions that keep driving people away. Now if I'm wrong about the upgrades, I would certainly re-evaluate the situation. My guess is nothing has changed in their upgrade policy, and these service packs are going to be free just as they always have been. Telling us the next five are free, simply would speculate your getting some kind of deal when in reality your not. The only real change I see here is the upgrade price going up from $495.00 to 695.00. What a deal!

Cageman
03-26-2011, 06:42 AM
I'm pretty sure knowing Newtek it's the service packs, and that's certainly no deal, and completely unacceptable to me, and should be to everyone else. I really don't want to leave Lightwave after all these years, but it's these type of greedy decisions that keep driving people away. Now if I'm wrong about the upgrades, I would certainly re-evaluate the situation.

Uh?

When I bought LW, I bought version 8.3. Included in that purchase was also LW8.5 (service pack) as well as LW9.0 (new version).

Also included in that price was LW9.2, LW9.3, LW9.3.1, LW9.5, LW9.6 and finaly (still in beta) LW9.6.1. All these increments on LW9.x series are so called service packs, except that, LW9.2, a lot of new features were introduced as well.

Oh, and I also got LWCad 1.5 for free, which was a deal NT struck with WTools.

So, all of the above for $800 or so. How is that greedy?

For LW10 and CORE, I have payed $395 (early bird upgrade price) and bugfixes (that is, service packs) will not cost anything. However, each new version will cost $395 for me. Some others who didn't upgrade early, will have a locked price at $495.

Tony3d
03-26-2011, 07:09 AM
Uh?

When I bought LW, I bought version 8.3. Included in that purchase was also LW8.5 (service pack) as well as LW9.0 (new version).

Also included in that price was LW9.2, LW9.3, LW9.3.1, LW9.5, LW9.6 and finaly (still in beta) LW9.6.1. All these increments on LW9.x series are so called service packs, except that, LW9.2, a lot of new features were introduced as well.

Oh, and I also got LWCad 1.5 for free, which was a deal NT struck with WTools.

So, all of the above for $800 or so. How is that greedy?

For LW10 and CORE, I have payed $395 (early bird upgrade price) and bugfixes (that is, service packs) will not cost anything. However, each new version will cost $395 for me. Some others who didn't upgrade early, will have a locked price at $495.

Sure, that wasn't greedy, but telling us were getting the next five upgrades for free is just an insult. They have always done that. Nothing new here. It just seems to me that Newtek is rushing to do something they should have been doing many years ago, and that's to give it's users a solid modern, stable 3D package. I think they have patched up LW as much as they could, and now have no choice but to rewrite it. In their panic to catch up were going to pay the price. Let's face it a lot of LW is a mess. Dynamics are laughable, the hub has been a joke from day one. With each new upgrade features seem to break, and become forgotten. I really don't want to pay to be a beta tester. I think it is commendable that Newtek has finally acknowledged that a complete rewrite is over due, but to do it, and price gouge at our expense, rubs me the wrong way. When the people that left Newtek to start Luxology couldn't convince them LW was in desperate need of a rewrite, Newtek said goodbye. Now Modo has become what LW should have been, and in just a few short years. The modeler is top notch, the animation side is weak, but Lightwave has many many years on them. In time moving forward the way they are, I have my bets riding on Luxology. This thread asked what were people's thoughts about LW10. Well these are mine. They will most likely be deleted, but they are my honest opinion. Maybe I shouldn't have one. After 14 years as a user, I think I'm entitled to that whether I'm right or wrong.

Cageman
03-26-2011, 07:35 AM
Well these are mine. They will most likely be deleted, but they are my honest opinion. Maybe I shouldn't have one.

You should use whatever you feel is the best for the work you conduct. At the same time, you have said that you wouldn't want to switch because of 13 years experience in LW, but it seems that no matter what anyone says here, you have allready made up your desicion, which makes this conversation quite useless.

:)

Tony3d
03-26-2011, 07:49 AM
You should use whatever you feel is the best for the work you conduct. At the same time, you have said that you wouldn't want to switch because of 13 years experience in LW, but it seems that no matter what anyone says here, you have allready made up your desicion, which makes this conversation quite useless.

:)

I'm still evaluating both packages. I know what I probably should do, but my roots are here with Lightwave. I'm just trying to find some compelling reason to stay. So far, I have not. I have 16 days left on both demos. Not a lot of time. I have not written LW completely off yet, just venting my many years of frustration. I am leaning towards Modo at the moment though.

Cageman
03-26-2011, 08:44 AM
Sure, that wasn't greedy, but telling us were getting the next five upgrades for free is just an insult.

Well, it seems you missunderstood Snosraps reply. The current upgrade price of $495 is for each upgrade and that it is locked at that price for 5 versions ahead.

It is not a situation where you pay $495 and will get 5 upgrades included in that price.

So... there is no insult from NT as you describe it.

Cageman
03-26-2011, 08:48 AM
To elaborate further:

If you upgrade to LW10 now, you will pay $495 and get all bugfixes for free (LW10.1, LW10.3 or whatever NT releases within LW10.x).

When LW11 rolls out, you pay $495 for the upgrade and, again, bugfixes etc are for free.

LW12, another $495
LW13, another $495
LW14, another $495
LW15, another $495

The price of $495 will not increase or decrease, but after those 5 upgrades, the price might increase.

Tony3d
03-26-2011, 09:00 AM
From what I heard the upgrades will increase to $695.00. That seems steep to me. Newtek does describe the next five upgrades which I believe are service packs as being free. As I said before they always have been. They make it sound like there's something new here, but there isn't. Thanks for clarifying that for me though.

frantbk
03-26-2011, 09:15 AM
Upgrades now are $495 and that upgrade price is locked in for the next 5 upgrade cycles. If you upgrade you'll have access to the beta of Core now and will receive the shipping version later in the year. I have modo and it's a great app too but LW is the more complete product at the moment. modo is missing a lot, but what is there works really well. No bones, no HV's, no cloth dynamics etc. etc., so if you need that stuff you are out of luck with modo. LW10 really rocks IMO. VPR is really nice, I no longer use FPrime.


That is not 100% factual. If you miss any of the 5 upgrades the price changes to $695.00. You only receive $495.00 pricing for the next 5 upgrades if you don't drop, miss, or skip an upgrade. What this means is, if NT release 2 upgrades in 1 year (let just say one in the 1st Q of the year and one in the 4Q of the year) you would have to pay $990.00 that year to receive $495.00 for the 3 remaining upgrades.

frantbk
03-26-2011, 09:35 AM
When you say the next 5 upgrade cycles you are most likely referring to the next 5 service packs, not numerical upgrade cycles which would take you to LW 15. Well if they start charging me for service packs I am most definitely out! Why would I pay to have bugs fixed that I already payed for. That would be a really poor decision on Newtek's part. Now if that meant numerical cycles which did bring you to 15, that would be something I would consider. I'm pretty sure knowing Newtek it's the service packs, and that's certainly no deal, and completely unacceptable to me, and should be to everyone else.

This issue has already been asked, but NT refuses to make a clear statement on the subject to the general public. What is an upgrade and what is a bug-fix-service pack?

Another question NT hasn't addressed is the LW10-lightwave 3D core issue. Every keeps saying 10&Core are being bundle together, but that does not mean they will have upgrades released at the same time. therefore, does that mean you have $495.00 for 10&Core upgrades as one cost? If not then 2 release of 10&Core would Cost $990.00 per year.

If you look at the wording of the LW10 info page; it would seem that the person buying into LW10 is buying into LW10, HardCore membership and one free copy of Lightwave 3D Core upon release to the general public. The specific wording on upgrades centers only on the understanding of LW10 and the $495.00 upgrade price over the next 5 units of LW10. there is nothing that states upgrades for Lightwave 3D Core. This confusing then brings us back to the bundled issue of LW10&Core and upgrade pricing.

Tony3d
03-26-2011, 10:14 AM
Here is a quote right off their site. Looks to me after Core is released everyone will be paying $695.00 per upgrade. Insane. I think my minds made up.


What does LightWave 10 cost?

LightWave 10 is available now for a special, limited time offer that includes upgrades for $495 and full units for $895, along with many other benefits. When LightWave 10 with CORE ships in 2011, upgrades will retail for $695 and LightWave full units will be $1495.

Cageman
03-26-2011, 11:16 AM
Here is a quote right off their site. Looks to me after Core is released everyone will be paying $695.00 per upgrade. Insane. I think my minds made up.


What does LightWave 10 cost?

LightWave 10 is available now for a special, limited time offer that includes upgrades for $495 and full units for $895, along with many other benefits. When LightWave 10 with CORE ships in 2011, upgrades will retail for $695 and LightWave full units will be $1495.

Don't forget that if you upgrade now for $495, your next 5 upgrades will be locked at that price.

Cageman
03-26-2011, 11:21 AM
Guys...

frantbk and Tony3D especially...

You guys are somewhat crazy. Sorry, but yes... you are....

If you just look back at the LW9.x series... do you guys honestly think that NT, all of a sudden, have changed their heart regarding value for money? Seriously...

Cageman
03-26-2011, 11:56 AM
Another question NT hasn't addressed is the LW10-lightwave 3D core issue. Every keeps saying 10&Core are being bundle together, but that does not mean they will have upgrades released at the same time.

LW10 = Layout, Modeler and CORE.

Not sure where you draw your conclusions from? As I said, you are somewhat crazy... look in the rear mirror regarding NewTek and upgrade policy... they have been overly generous to us in the past... what makes you think that, all of a sudden, they would have changed heart?

frantbk
03-26-2011, 12:20 PM
Listen just because you say the sorry does not make it any less rude. Nobody has called you crazy because of you views (here in this thread) therefore you don't need to call anyone names.

Just because you don't agree with our view does not mean other people out there in the general public agree with your statements. There are a lot of questions out there that NT hasn't talked about with the general public. NT missed releasing Core back in 2009 and still hasn't shown any new information since then on Core to the general public.

What is crazy is the HardCore memberships view that nothing has to be said, and nothing has to be shown to have trust in NT and the HardCore membership. That boat sailed a long time ago You guys have been spouting greatness for 2 years with nothing shown to the general public. What you and NT are getting is what you are giving -- nothing in return for you vapor talk about NT's direction with Lightwave.

Unless you can talk for NewTek, as its rep, then it might be better if you tone down calling people crazy. Your view and words are not binding on NewTek with the customers. Therefore what you claim is true is as meaningless as is everything everyone else post in this thread about NT direction and customer agreements.

As for the missing upgrades and losing the $495.00 it is clearly on the Lightwave 10 information page. Go read Lightwave 10 more info page. What I've stated as fact is clearly there. There is nothing there that clearly details how NT handles lightwave 10 and Core after the release of Core and what is and isn't effected with the release of Core, and what is and isn't covered by buying lightwave 10 after the release of Core.

geo_n
03-26-2011, 12:28 PM
Uh?

When I bought LW, I bought version 8.3. Included in that purchase was also LW8.5 (service pack) as well as LW9.0 (new version).

Also included in that price was LW9.2, LW9.3, LW9.3.1, LW9.5, LW9.6 and finaly (still in beta) LW9.6.1. All these increments on LW9.x series are so called service packs, except that, LW9.2, a lot of new features were introduced as well.

Oh, and I also got LWCad 1.5 for free, which was a deal NT struck with WTools.

So, all of the above for $800 or so. How is that greedy?

For LW10 and CORE, I have payed $395 (early bird upgrade price) and bugfixes (that is, service packs) will not cost anything. However, each new version will cost $395 for me. Some others who didn't upgrade early, will have a locked price at $495.

You forgot to mention vue and uvlayout:D. Definitely a lot of value that time.
Wish they would bundle some software or plugin again for lw 10-15.
Maybe 3dcoat and syntheyes.

zapper1998
03-26-2011, 12:37 PM
Considering what has been done with LW10 and Core...

It's a Major improvement... I mean it's amazing, what they have done, with what they have, in the time they have done it..

The trend is going, and it looks great, the direction is a positive one.

"Claps hands" at newtek, great job, keep going, soon LW will kick the arse off the rest..




Michael

Tony3d
03-26-2011, 01:10 PM
[QUOTE=zapper1998;1126725]Considering what has been done with LW10 and Core...

It's a Major improvement... I mean it's amazing, what they have done, with what they have, in the time they have done it..

The trend is going, and it looks great, the direction is a positive one.

"Claps hands" at newtek, great job, keep going, soon LW will kick the arse off the rest..

Ya, whatever. Did both of you even read my post further up. $695.00, and it is $695.00 according to Newtek's own description is s far cry from what was just $395.00 for all previous upgrades. The program still has plenty of unsolved bugs which has been there for years, heck Quicktime on a Mac doesn't even export correctly now. You are presented with absolutely no saving options, and what it does save I wouldn't show my worse client. If you guys think your still getting a good deal you must simply be brainwashed. I'm moving on. I can't see spending another penny on this package. I'll take the $300.00 savings from Modo upgrades, and invest it else where. Had Newtek not made such a ridiculous price increase I probably would have stayed with them even considering all the other issues, but that's the deal breaker for me. I think Modo's work flow, and features suit me much better. If Newtek does something that truly makes the $695.00 upgrade worth it, I may change my mind, and upgrade at a later date. I don't see that happening on the path they have chosen. I made a lot of money with Lightwave, and I wish them the best.

lino.grandi
03-26-2011, 01:32 PM
Enough guys.