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Philbert
02-20-2011, 12:06 PM
This has bugged me for years but I never bothered to ask about it. When using Noisy Chennel in the Graph Editor, is there some way to stop it? There's no Envelope button, but pretty much every time I use Noisy Channel I want to stop it at some point instead of going on forever. I was never able to wrap my head around expressions if that's the way.

http://content.screencast.com/users/philnolan3d/folders/Jing/media/500c0084-cf33-476f-a709-7eeab195e290/2011-02-20_1405.png

Edit: Actually I think I found at least one solution. Bake the keys for that channel, then you can just turn off Noisy Channel all together. This would only work for motion though, for example it couldn't be used for a dissolve.

4dartist
02-20-2011, 12:43 PM
Yep there definitely is, but it takes a little extra work.

I use noisy channel all the time, and I mean it, it's an awesome part of lightwave, however, your are correct, the need to key it's strength is paramount to use it well.

So I learned this trick on these forums long ago and it has come in so very handy. I'll give you an example and you can adapt it how you'd like.

You need to use expressions. Basically anytime you want to add the random values to a channel, you need to put an expression in that channel that takes the random motion from a null object. The key is to multiply your random motion channel by a channel used to drive the strength. Then you take the product of those and that goes in the objects channel you want random (but controllable.)

For example lets say you want your camera to shake in pitch and heading, but only as the car goes by the camera. (car is driving by)

So we need to drive Cameras pitch and heading.

Make a null object called 'shake'.

The x positon in shake will drive how much shake, and the pitch and heading will have the random values.

So grab the shake null, and put the noisy channel in pitch and heading how you like it. Now you don't want to shake your main camera, you should keep that clean and untouched. So create a new camera and make it a child to your main camera. Select the new camera, and in the pitch channel put this. [shake.Rotation.P]*[shake.Position.X] and in the heading just put this [shake.Rotation.H]*[shake.Position.X]. Now.. if the x channel of shake is 0, you wont have any shaking in the camera, but if x channel of shake is 1 you will have the full force of your noisy channels in the camera's channels. So go put some keys in the x of shake null and watch how the camera will react.

I know that sounds like a lot of fuss... but once you get the idea, it's really really simple and very fast to set up. It's also a great way to break into expressions and let them help improve your animations.

I attached an example scene that just has the setup.

Philbert
02-20-2011, 12:51 PM
Thanks I'll take a look at it.

gordonrobb
02-20-2011, 01:01 PM
There's also a noisy 2. It can be enveloped.

4dartist
02-20-2011, 01:06 PM
There's also a noisy 2. It can be enveloped.

I can't seem to find a universal binary version of that. :(

Philbert
02-20-2011, 01:18 PM
There's also a noisy 2. It can be enveloped.

Ah yes, here it is. Thanks.
http://www.lwplugindb.com/Plugin.aspx?id=9fe8a3d4

Looks like they never made one for newer macs. Unfortunately things like that seem to be a common occurrence for mac LWers.

The down side is that I have to send this scene to my client so it wouldn't work for him properly unless he also installed the plugin (I assume)

nickdigital
02-20-2011, 01:31 PM
The down side is that I have to send this scene to my client so it wouldn't work for him properly unless he also installed the plugin (I assume)

Yeah, you'll need to tell him to install it. Or just bake the curve.

zarti
02-20-2011, 06:00 PM
This has bugged me for years but I never bothered to ask about it. When using Noisy Chennel in the Graph Editor, is there some way to stop it? There's no Envelope button, but pretty much every time I use Noisy Channel I want to stop it at some point instead of going on forever. I was never able to wrap my head around expressions if that's the way.

http://content.screencast.com/users/philnolan3d/folders/Jing/media/500c0084-cf33-476f-a709-7eeab195e290/2011-02-20_1405.png

Edit: Actually I think I found at least one solution. Bake the keys for that channel, then you can just turn off Noisy Channel all together. This would only work for motion though, for example it couldn't be used for a dissolve.

hi ,

is there any specific reason Why you aren't using the NodMot Editor ?

... because that wd give you the maximum flexibility ; stopping , fading , combining ( even logically with other events ) , quickly switching between different 'motion candidates' , etc . etc ..

Philbert
02-20-2011, 06:20 PM
I have no idea what that is.

faulknermano
02-20-2011, 06:30 PM
Denis Pontonnier's Node Item Motion found here:

http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/nodes/nodes/Node_Editors.html

Philbert
02-20-2011, 07:04 PM
Thanks for the explanation. I'm not a big fan of nodes so if it's something I can do without them I'd rather do it that way. I'll check this out, I don't really do much animation anyway though so I'm not sure if I'll get much use out of it.

jeric_synergy
02-20-2011, 08:23 PM
I'd say for this application, Node Motion Editor is 'wayyyy overkill.

That's a simple Expression. Go with that.

Philbert
02-20-2011, 08:26 PM
I've actually finished this animation and moved on to the next one. Starting number 7 of 10 due by the end of the month.

zarti
02-21-2011, 10:24 AM
no prob .
for the next generations here will be two youtube videos =) .

..
the first video is : how it was built and how it works ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjDhAkqF-ac


..
the second video is : why this way ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lotuS7n8PK0

...

screenshot :

92951

..
nodal setup :
92952

..
p.s.: Dpont's ( God Bless Him ! ) Item Motion Node required ...


.cheers

Philbert
02-21-2011, 10:27 AM
It seems as though CORE will eventually have all of that built in. hopefully it won't take too long.

4dartist
02-21-2011, 11:15 AM
hopefully it won't take too long.
I wouldn't hold your breath, it's going to be years before core can come close to replacing the current Lightwave.

Zarti, thanks for the videos, can you explain how exactly to start the item motion node? I have the plugin installed, and I figured it would show up in the Motion Options or in the Plugin list, but I can't seem to find it.. In your videos it's already just open, so I can't see where you found it.

zarti
02-21-2011, 12:23 PM
sure ! , see the pics below ...

from the plugs' list
..
92953


double click its name
..
92954


p.s.: in the previous post ( picture ) , i have left the original nodes' names ( add , multiply , etc . ) intact , so you could notice what is what , while the explanation is in BOLD type . but you also have the .nodes file too ...

if i can find some free time again like today , i wd want to share few other ' uses ' of that base setup . =)

.cheers

dpont
02-21-2011, 12:57 PM
You can do this per channel too,

92957

92956

Denis.

4dartist
02-21-2011, 01:32 PM
OH wow, ok. I thought it was part of the DP_kit.plugin, I could not figure out why I am not seeing these node editors, but I see now they are different .plugin files. I grabbed both the motion node editor and channel, thanks so much. These are going to be great.

zarti
02-21-2011, 02:45 PM
yes . you can even access nodal editors through a single ' layer ' in the layers' stack .

but , in my example , usually you get all 9 channels inside a single editor .

... but the choice is yours and that mostly depends on the Case .





.cheers

Cageman
02-21-2011, 04:03 PM
Another way to do this is to use a Master Channel.

I did a videotutorial about it some year(s) back.

You can find it here! (ftp://LightWave:[email protected]:21/Cageman_MasterChannels)

jeric_synergy
02-21-2011, 07:35 PM
You can do this per channel too,

92957

92956

Denis.

Are BOTH Scalars displayed in the Graph Editor?? It looks like they are.

dpont
02-22-2011, 12:34 AM
Are BOTH Scalars displayed in the Graph Editor?? It looks like they are.

These two nodes are enveloped,
one is the noisy channel, the other the fade in/out curve,
both directly accessible in the GE.

Denis.

clagman
02-22-2011, 07:43 AM
The simplest way to do this is to use textured channel instead of noisy channel. You can use envelope to attenuate the noise created by a procedural (or whatever) by lowering the layer opacity or texture value over time. No need for expressions or anything but of course you can attach an expression to drive the envelope or use cyclist etc.

Philbert
02-22-2011, 08:05 AM
That's a good point I should have thought of that.

clagman
02-22-2011, 08:32 AM
See even I can contribute something on the rare occasion ;^{)>

jeric_synergy
02-22-2011, 09:14 AM
The simplest way to do this is to use textured channel instead of noisy channel. You can use envelope to attenuate the noise created by a procedural (or whatever) by lowering the layer opacity or texture value over time. No need for expressions or anything but of course you can attach an expression to drive the envelope or use cyclist etc.
Dang! We all shoulda thunk o' dat. :hat:

4dartist
02-22-2011, 09:53 AM
The simplest way to do this is to use textured channel instead of noisy channel. You can use envelope to attenuate the noise created by a procedural (or whatever) by lowering the layer opacity or ...

Simple for some applications maybe, but not ideal at all.
1. When you envelope the layer opacity you cannot see the true shape of the channel because you will only see the value for that given frame you are on across the entire timeline, so if you are at a opacity of 0 before you fade in the texture the entire channel will appear flat.

2. Textures offset in a direction instead of being random around your value, which is one thing you'll have to worry about, so if you use the offset feature and you animate the opacity to 0, your curve is still offset... annoying. Basically you've have to create two textures, a positive and a negative and then fade them both out, and then you are just left with problem 1. But now you are always having to envelope 2 textures to get 1 result.

Just my thoughts from using it for about 30 seconds. It's doable, and probably less work than setting up expressions. You also get more control over the shape of the noise with is awesome. Overall though I'd say it's has some draw backs.

zarti
02-22-2011, 11:28 AM
another cent ;

... usually ' simple ' ways take and hide the power / control from ' you ' . ... and something called ' flexibility ' .

imho , working with nodes gives you back the control and more easy mngmnt .

textures and expression can easily be ordinary components from inside there .