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CharlieL
02-17-2011, 07:25 AM
HI,
I think I need some help to think clearly. My challenge is to make a cut ocean
which makes it possible to see what happens both above and below the surface.

Simply two planes at a right angle. But the tricky thing is that I would like to displace
the surface so it looks like waves on a deep sea. But the cut should be plain,
just like a aquarium wall but at a bigger scale.

The tricky thing is to manage the edge between the two planes. If I make them
as one object the displacement will affect the cut also. If I make the planes as
separate objects it might be hard to get them to connect.

First, I thought about this as an animation, but now I think I will stay with stills instead.
I would be glad if anybody would help me sort this out.

02-17-2011, 10:31 AM
Use a ground object and an ocean object like you're thinking...
displace the ocean surface but get that wild bouncing lighting
to go from the ocean plain to the ground object...
this is going to be key to making this look right.

If you need the depth and distance to affect objects in the water...
You could create a poly heavy cube and use weights to control that
only the uppermost portion gets displaced.
Then texture with transparency based on thickness using gradients to
control the starting points...probably start at the top and closest to the cam
for the most transparency and darker on the x and y planes.
This will affect objects inside as they get further away from the cam and/or deeper into water.

Hope this wasn't all that confusing.

Lightwolf
02-17-2011, 11:07 AM
What should work:
Create your ocean surface and your ground plane, set both of them to be unseen by camera.

Then, in front of your camera, at a plane that functions as the cutter, make it 100% transparent.

Then render with perspective camera making sure that you raytrace transparencies.

Because the ocean and the ground are not directly visible by the camera, but visible in the raytracing behind the plane you should be able to get the effect you want.

What you can't do with that trick is an ocean in a cube... that would require more work.

Cheers,
Mike

CharlieL
02-17-2011, 01:11 PM
Use a ground object and an ocean object like you're thinking...
displace the ocean surface but get that wild bouncing lighting
to go from the ocean plain to the ground object...
this is going to be key to making this look right.

If you need the depth and distance to affect objects in the water...
You could create a poly heavy cube and use weights to control that
only the uppermost portion gets displaced.
Then texture with transparency based on thickness using gradients to
control the starting points...probably start at the top and closest to the cam
for the most transparency and darker on the x and y planes.
This will affect objects inside as they get further away from the cam and/or deeper into water.

Hope this wasn't all that confusing.

Thank you for good advice! Yes weight-maps might solve the displacement issue.
Your thoughts on lightsetting was interesting. I will make some trials on that.
The thickness based transparency sound a bit cumbersome. I will look into that a bit more.
The things I would like to show is within a meter or two below the surface,
not deeper, so lets see what impact it makes to play with the transparency.
Now I have fresh ideas to test.

Thank you so much lwaddict!

CharlieL
02-17-2011, 01:34 PM
What should work:
Create your ocean surface and your ground plane, set both of them to be unseen by camera.

Then, in front of your camera, at a plane that functions as the cutter, make it 100% transparent.

Then render with perspective camera making sure that you raytrace transparencies.

Because the ocean and the ground are not directly visible by the camera, but visible in the raytracing behind the plane you should be able to get the effect you want.

What you can't do with that trick is an ocean in a cube... that would require more work.

Cheers,
Mike

Thank you Mike. Your idea sounds interesting. But I do not think I am quite clear about how to
achieve the effect. With the "ground plane" do you mean the vertical plane that makes the cut,
or is it a plane below the surface?

Do you know about any tutorials on such camera tricks that might be available?

This sounds very interesting. Could you please, elaborate a bit more on this technique?

Lightwolf
02-17-2011, 01:48 PM
Thank you Mike. Your idea sounds interesting. But I do not think I am quite clear about how to
achieve the effect. With the "ground plane" do you mean the vertical plane that makes the cut, or is it a plane below the surface?

The one below the surface.

Do you know about any tutorials on such camera tricks that might be available?

This sounds very interesting. Could you please, elaborate a bit more on this technique?
Give me a few minutes...

Cheers,
Mike

Lightwolf
02-17-2011, 02:06 PM
Here you go, have a look at this. One thing to look out for, the trick only works if the cutting plane has a refraction index other than one. I.e. 1.0001 works fine.

It also won't help you if you want to render the cutting plane itself between the ocean and the floor (which would really make it look like an aquarium).

Cheers,
Mike

CharlieL
02-17-2011, 02:16 PM
Here you go, have a look at this. One thing to look out for, the trick only works if the cutting plane has a refraction index other than one. I.e. 1.0001 works fine.

It also won't help you if you want to render the cutting plane itself between the ocean and the floor (which would really make it look like an aquarium).

Cheers,
Mike

Great Mike! Lightning fast support :)
I will study your file and try to learn from it.

That was undeserved kindness!

Lightwolf
02-17-2011, 02:18 PM
That was undeserved kindness!
To be honest... I just wanted to see if my memory served me right before I send you off on a completely wrong track...

It did. *phew* :D

Cheers,
Mike

lardbros
02-17-2011, 02:19 PM
Is this what you're after? I remember this tutorial from quite a while ago, it's brilliant, and will give you a good head start! :)

CharlieL
02-17-2011, 03:12 PM
Is this what you're after? I remember this tutorial from quite a while ago, it's brilliant, and will give you a good head start! :)

What a great community! Three comprehensive answers on a simple question.
And this tip was really good lardbros, with a detailed PDF that show every step.
It will be exciting to see if I can get some oil spill on the surface and the effect
that might give. But it is getting too late tonight.

Thank you lardbros!

CharlieL
02-17-2011, 03:22 PM
Mike,
Thanks for the files! I noticed the "Unseen by Rays" and "Unseen by Camera" in the Object
Properties. But I am not sure I get the concept. I have to digest it a little to sort it out.
I think with a bluish fog between the Surface and Floor this could be an interesting solution.
Nice and simple water BTW.

Thanks Mike!

lardbros
02-17-2011, 03:39 PM
No probs, would like to say I'm pleased to help, but the original tutorial author is the guy to thank :) Make sure you show off your work when it's done!

Lightwolf
02-17-2011, 05:07 PM
Nice and simple water BTW.

Water surfaces are all about reflection and refraction...

Old school but it only uses image mas for the reflection and refraction http://www.presetcentral.com/preset/70/

Cheers,
Mike