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lreyes
01-19-2011, 05:28 PM
I had an earlier post on the difference between MAC and Windos and that could turn into a lot post, but heck, thats how we learn. If I were in a business of doing animation, I would opt for a MAC, but that would included setting up a new enviorment, since I have been a Windows user for eons. I can ill afford a MAC Pro at present time.

The more I learn doing Lightwave, the more RAM I need and also with using Zbrush, that really adds up on the RAM. My present computer is a XP professional with only 3.5 RAM since the other .5 RAM went elsewhere, as this computer only goes to 4 RAM.

I got a quote from Dell for a Studio XPS 9100 with Intel Core i7 8 MB. and 8GB of RAM and a Nvidia G310 512 MB DDR3 and 1TB serial ATA hard drive for a little over 1 thouand (no monitor). This should satisfy my hunger for RAM, I want your thoughts on this...I know that MAC user are loyal to the max, and I do not blame them, but they are expensive.

Jim_C
01-19-2011, 05:42 PM
IMO Apple makes awesome hardware. Their computers are sleek, SILENT, well built and dependable. The closest PC manufacturer I have seen to equaling the build quality of an Apple is by far and away Dell. And when or if it does come time to upgrade or repair a Dell, everything is easily removable and accessible without any tools (well minus a fan.)

My opinion anyway

Jim_C
01-19-2011, 05:48 PM
ps ... I am not a Lightwave user. I am speaking as more of a hardcore computer user in general.. not software specific

Titus
01-19-2011, 06:16 PM
If I were in a business of doing animation, I would opt for a MAC, but that would included setting up a new enviorment,

Why? do macs now come with good graphic cards?

realgray
01-19-2011, 06:40 PM
I can't remember but I heard something about Dell's having some special hardware in them that made them hard to upgrade. Anyone know anything of this? I'm on a Mac now but looking at PC's in the future because of the graphics card situation.

Jim_C
01-19-2011, 07:16 PM
I can't remember but I heard something about Dell's having some special hardware in them that made them hard to upgrade. Anyone know anything of this? I'm on a Mac now but looking at PC's in the future because of the graphics card situation.

I have 7 Dells running in my house now (one laptop) and have never had any problem updating any of them. I may have not come across the particular problem you speak of.
The only extra research I have done was to make sure I bought RAM the machines liked. Some Dells are a little finicky in adding an extra graphic card. ie if you add a PCI card, you can't use both onboard graphics and the pci, but that is pretty easily found through research also.

Other than that, hard drives, dvds, fans, all go in and out no problemo. (for me at least)

JonW
01-19-2011, 07:36 PM
I use a Mac for everything other that LW. I just don't want to spend the money on Apple tax if I can help it.


Third option:

Build your own, or as I do get a small shop to put the parts together that you want. Not only will they be cheaper, you won't be wasting money on parts you don't need.

This box is a bit long in the tooth but is typical of cost per GHz compared to a named brand. It was about $300 per GHz & a new Apple was about $500 per GHz.
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100802

If you are after render nodes, some new bare bones i7 2500 would be the go.

Jim_C
01-19-2011, 08:16 PM
Dell business Outlet....
http://www.dell.com/us/en/dfb/notebooks/ct.aspx?refid=notebooks&cs=28&s=dfb

Cheaper than you can build your own and same warranty as new

Dell Home Outlet
http://www.dell.com/us/en/dfh/df.aspx?refid=df&cs=22&s=dfh

Amurrell
01-19-2011, 08:22 PM
I build my own systems by going around and researching all of the parts that I need and making sure they are compatible with everything. This process takes sometimes months, since I shop for a long time while saving for a system and tech changes so much. But I did manage to build my system a little over a year ago for around $1200 while a Dell or other pre-built system like HP and the like with the same features would have run me around $1800 at the time. I get a good base going which is upgradeable and expandable into the future and go from there.

speismonqui
01-19-2011, 09:06 PM
Im using Dell on both desktop and laptop, must say I've never have any issues at all. At work Im a Mac. Im happy with both of them, my only issue is OS.
Macs are smooth
Windows is... well, you know

JonW
01-19-2011, 09:22 PM
Custom Build

W5680 x 2 $3900
Supermicro X8DAL-I $590
Ram 24 gb ecc $800
Intel 80 gb SSD $250
1 tb HD WD $100
Supermicro 865w ps $370
Chenbro case sr105 $180
HS x 2 Noctua $160
2 extra Noctua case fans $50
DVD/CD $40
OS Win7 Ultimate $230
GTX 460 $230

Total $6900

$172.50 per GHz, at 3.33 (total 40 GHz)
$162.35 per GHz turbo (total 42.5 GHz)

This is what I would buy now for my purposes.
(au$ & we are still paying a premium let alone the exchange rate)

meatycheesyboy
01-19-2011, 09:54 PM
nvm

RebelHill
01-20-2011, 04:31 AM
Mac... overpriced imo, and too limited in availability of software, plugins, relative performance of that software compared to windows...

as for dell... wouldnt touch them with yours... http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/technology/29dell.html

Kuzey
01-20-2011, 04:45 AM
Haha...I remember reading bad stuff about dell for some time....pass on them and look for a different brand.


Kuzey

UnCommonGrafx
01-20-2011, 04:52 AM
I was wondering when someone would mention this of Dell.

PC: Build your own.
Mac: Buy what you can afford.

They are all just boxes of rocks. It's you and your whims and wishes that make any difference at all.

Kuzey
01-20-2011, 05:03 AM
More dell problems:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/computers/dell_svc.html

Kuzey

JoeJustice
01-20-2011, 05:10 AM
Prices on PC parts these days are almost sad. I just bought 8 gigs of RAM for < $100. I still remember shelling out $200 for 4 MEGS. If you go with PCs you can build rendering drones for $400 pretty easily and a really nice workstation for < $1,000. So for $2,000 you'd be much more productive. But that is, of course, with me assuming everyone wants to build their own.

Apple products are very well engineered and thought-out. Personally, I don't feel the extra planning is worth the mark-up, apple has notoriously high profit margins. But if you want a box you can plug in and run a certain application or two with no fuss, fixing and modifying at all, and have the cash, it's a solid option.

-Joe

Soth
01-20-2011, 05:49 AM
Mac... overpriced imo, and too limited in availability of software, plugins, relative performance of that software compared to windows...

as for dell... wouldnt touch them with yours... http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/technology/29dell.html

Well, that happened too to Asus, Abit and many more manufacturers...

Jim_C
01-20-2011, 06:50 AM
you can google and find articles (written by whom? with what bias? who buys ads in the magazine or paper?) bashing every computer maker out there. I imagine I can dig up a dozen articles saying Lightwave is the worst software made, or you can listen to actual people who use them.

I have yet to read a post in this thread from someone who actually owns a Dell and has problems, just people on with hunts searching for slamming articles.

7 Dells aged 1 to 6 years old running in this house 24/7/365 and all I have done repair wise is to replace a power supply in the quad core but that was because I overtaxed it with extra drives and a big honkin video card.

mattclary
01-20-2011, 06:56 AM
I can't remember but I heard something about Dell's having some special hardware in them that made them hard to upgrade. Anyone know anything of this? I'm on a Mac now but looking at PC's in the future because of the graphics card situation.

Most Dells use proprietary motherboards, but all the other components are pretty standard. That just means if your motherboard dies, you have to go to dell to get a replacement.

Personally, I roll my own, but if you can't build your own, Dell is your best option, IMO. Apple is way to expensive for what you get.

mattclary
01-20-2011, 06:58 AM
Dell business Outlet....
http://www.dell.com/us/en/dfb/notebooks/ct.aspx?refid=notebooks&cs=28&s=dfb

Cheaper than you can build your own and same warranty as new

Dell Home Outlet
http://www.dell.com/us/en/dfh/df.aspx?refid=df&cs=22&s=dfh


Yes, absolutely. I saved about 30% on a refurbished Latitude E6400 and it came with a 2 year warranty.

crashnburn
01-20-2011, 08:34 AM
I've built my own PCs for about 15 years and have also repaired them. I've never had a PC out of commission for more than a day or two as the only failures I've had were power supplies and a hard drive. I reckon I've saved a fortune.

Titus
01-20-2011, 08:57 AM
There are sites where you can find discount cupons for Dell, I've got one for the last Dell we bought.

hrgiger
01-20-2011, 09:39 AM
Used to go the Dell route until I started building my own. Dell does use proprietary parts is what I've heard. Just the motherboard? Well that's the important part that everything plugs into. Rather go with a trusted mobo manufacturer then Dell. If their parts building is anything like the support you get with them, I'd steer clear.

Macs- just echoing what others have said. I'm sure they're nice, but I would hate to be another person on the boards complaining because someone's not porting a plug-in or giving us as good as version as those damn windows users.

dstorer
01-20-2011, 09:48 AM
IMO, Dell is junk. I have worked as an IT fixit guy for 'bout 11 years and when you get a 'new' Dell - the parts can be up to 3 years old. Also the Cro-mags they send out for onsite support?!? I had this guy shoving a heatsink onto the CPU trying to get it to 'click'. I'm talking 1/2" above the board and slamming it. He 'poo-poo'd' my complaints and then I had to get a new motherboard. :compbeati Their saving grace is thier (other) support. I like HP, but the support is not as good as Dell.

I build my own. If you want RAM over 4GB = Win7. If you are up to it, check out Tiger direct for bundles, for about $600 +/-, you can get a sweet deal. Make sure the motherboard will support more than 4GB of RAM. Tomshardware.com can fill you in on what you are about to embark upon. Also, you can't call for support...

My first computer was a Mac, but PC is cheaper. It's give & take. Macs dont have (as far as I know) so much worry with spyware/virus', etc, but Macs == $$ and in the Lightwave arena, the lion's share of plugins are for the PC arena. I imagine that's due to the platform the developer works on and he/she may not have to time to port/support Mac.

Good luck with it...

VonBon
01-20-2011, 11:16 AM
Mac sucks and PC rules. :devil:

get a Sony or Gateway

DrVideo
01-20-2011, 11:22 AM
Used to go the Dell route until I started building my own. Dell does use proprietary parts is what I've heard. Just the motherboard? Well that's the important part that everything plugs into. Rather go with a trusted mobo manufacturer then Dell. If their parts building is anything like the support you get with them, I'd steer clear.

Macs- just echoing what others have said. I'm sure they're nice, but I would hate to be another person on the boards complaining because someone's not porting a plug-in or giving us as good as version as those damn windows users.

It appears that trend might be changing. Discreet is moving all their development effort to the Mac.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=55166

hrgiger
01-20-2011, 11:35 AM
It appears that trend might be changing. Discreet is moving all their development effort to the Mac.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=55166

I'm not sure one company that makes video editing software hardly indicates an industry trend. I haven't seen any indication that 3D developers are taking a similar route.

EDIT: And I see Neverko beat me to that one.

Titus
01-20-2011, 11:43 AM
Mac sucks and PC rules. :devil:

get a Sony or Gateway

Sony suck big time! they are expensive and very delicate. Their service is also expensive and bad. I had a Vaio desktop, a glass of water drop over the keyboard (in this model the keyboard is attached to the computer), this accident cost me $200 to replace the keyboard. The service insisted they had to erase my HD and reisntall windows or they won't fix the machine.

Paul_Boland
01-20-2011, 01:17 PM
I'm a long time Dell PC user. My desktop is Dell, my laptop is Dell, my sisters laptop is Dell, I steer everyone to Dell.

On their website you can configure a system to your needs and their price is superb (just steer clear of the Alienware computers, they are expensive as hell!!). A few years ago my Dell desktop developed an issue with the hard drive and I rang Dell tech support to see if they could help. On reaching a tech support member, he took my phone number, I hung up, and he rang me back so the call was free!! He then talked me through the issue and it was fixed there and then. And on top of that, Dell rang back TWICE a couple of weeks later just to check everything was ok!! What superb customer service!!

I've not had any problems with updating the system either. Granted, this was minimual updates, new graphics card, new hard drive, installed a bluray drive. I didn't do anything big like updating the processor or something, but I've had no problems there either.

The only down side for updating is the BIOS is very resticted in what you can mess with, but in all fairness, they've never caused me a problem.

Another thing I like about Dell is that they give you physical discs of the software you ordered and that comes on the system. I hate it when folks buy a computer, not Dell, and they have to create their own backup discs from the installed software. Burned CD-R's/DVD-R's don't have the shelf life of a proper factory created disc and one friend I know lost his own system due to one of his burned system restore discs no longer being readable.

As for Mac, I don't have a Mac, but I am getting one. BUT it's only because I want to get into App development for the iPhone and iPad, I will not be moving my setup over to Mac. Mac is very expensive, I have to say that. A Windows 7 Dell computer will do just fine and if I was setting up a professional computer graphics business, I'd be getting a powerhouse PC from Dell, and not a Mac.

Just my input to the question.

VonBon
01-20-2011, 01:24 PM
i had a vaio and the only problem i had out of it was the dvd burner
eventually went out. they are more expensive tho.

VonBon
01-20-2011, 01:33 PM
did i say that Macs suck :compbeati

mattclary
01-20-2011, 02:16 PM
Used to go the Dell route until I started building my own. Dell does use proprietary parts is what I've heard. Just the motherboard? Well that's the important part that everything plugs into.

It's really just the way the mobo mounts in the machine that makes it proprietary. A standard ATX or mini-ATX just physically won't mount to the case. All the connectors and such are standard so parts are easily replaceable.

I "think" that most current mobos they use now are actually BTX (mount from the opposite side of the machine), but BTX boards are pretty much non-existent other than OEMs. And I am sure they are probably not even "standard" BTX boards...

The only real issue I have with Dell is their power supplies aren't as good as I like, other than that, they're actually pretty good machines. And Dell is one of the more user-friendly sites for locating drivers for their hardware.

mattclary
01-20-2011, 02:20 PM
get a Sony or Gateway

You sir, need your head examined. Sony is the LAST freaking machine I would buy. They are worse than most about the crapware they install, and the machines are pretty difficult to work on.

mattclary
01-20-2011, 02:24 PM
Another thing I like about Dell is that they give you physical discs of the software you ordered and that comes on the system.

This varies a lot by model or purchase option. The majority of Dells use a restoration image stored on the hard drive. I work on a LOT of Dells since they are so popular...

CG Addict
01-20-2011, 03:35 PM
What do you guys think of the HPZ series? Prices seem reasonable.

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF02d/12454-12454-296719.html?jumpid=re_R295_prodexp/busproducts/computing/workstations-see-all&psn=desktops_workstations/workstation

JonW
01-20-2011, 03:56 PM
This is from my supplier. I would persomally make change to this setup & I don’t need a screen. OC system.

Intel i7 2600 CPU OC 3.9G with Cooler Master TX3 Super CPU Cooler
GA P67A-UD3R Motherboard
4G DDR 3 1333Mhz Kingston
1TB Seagate HDD SATA II 7200rpm
1G DDR5 ATI 5770 PCI Express
TI Deluxe Case with 650WPower and USB in front
Logitech Ps II Keyboard Mouse
21.5" Acer or Benq LCD Monitor
24 Speed DVD RW Dual Layer
Built in Gigabit Lan, SATA, Audio,
Windows® 7 Home Premium

Total price $1,135.00

mattclary
01-20-2011, 04:27 PM
I put this list together. Total with OS is $965.91 That motherboard will take 16GB of RAM too... ;) You could even throw in an SSD as a boot drive too.

Paul_Boland
01-20-2011, 08:32 PM
This varies a lot by model or purchase option. The majority of Dells use a restoration image stored on the hard drive. I work on a LOT of Dells since they are so popular...

Hi Mattclary. That is true, even my Dell computers have a restoration system on the hard drive, but I also got full installation discs for the OS, software I bought with the system and software that came with them too. Overall, I'm quite happy with Dell.

gschrick
01-21-2011, 03:47 AM
I've used Amigas, SGIs, Quantels, PCs (mulitple Brands) and MACs. And every single of of them has it's problems and will piss you off. We just had one of our MACs drop dead without warning. And since it was a tad old, MAC no longer supported parts for it. So it's now a donor machine. I'm not too fond of Snow leopard either. CS4 After Effects got really slow when I upgraded the OS, hopefully an update to CS5 will speed it back up.

Honestly, if you like PCs, I would look into BOXX. I have 2 of them. They're pricey but when you get any other PC up to their specs, they're about the same price. They're built well, customizable and the customer support is great.

Currently I have a BOXX and a MAC with the same Intel processors. The BOXX always beats it on render time.

And since this is a NewTek forum, I would prefer a PC. Lightwave seems more stable and there's more plugins for it. Not to mention that I have to give up my MAC fprime when upgraded to 64bit LW10. But it still works fine on the PC.

Soth
01-22-2011, 08:59 PM
I am quite happy Z800 user, you can grab a bargain on ebaynow:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-HP-Z800-Dual-2x-X5680-3-33GHz-6Core-12GB-1TB-Win7_W0QQitemZ350426843494QQcategoryZ179QQcmdZView ItemQQ_trksidZp5197.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu %3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D65 61697585957578857

regarding dell love their support, they still try to help even if half of you dell computer is made from your own (not dell), its hard to get this with hp

i will tell u one support case, i had an issue with wake on lan settings on my servers, they spend more than hour trying to help me, including logging remotely to my computers
it did not helped - so thay took all the details including the software that im using and they registered themselves for trial of BNR renderer, installed on they mock-up rig here and called me back with the solution

i will never get so much help if you build by yourself but when you are freelancer and from time to tie you have free time to build by yourself very often it is great way to save money

except when - sometimes - one part will fail when manufacturer does not have replacement parts any more, they will give you some funny amount of money as refund

my gf card broke just before end of warranty period and scan.co.uk gave me £8 refund... for the card that i bought for £350 :(

DrVideo
01-25-2011, 04:16 PM
I like Mac because of the stability of OSX Snow Leopard, The Final Cut Pro workflow and ease of use. I have tried other solutions on the PC such as Adobe Premiere :thumbsup:and find myself returning to the Mac.

Also I can think of a dozen recent hollywood films that were edited on FCP.
Can the same be said for Speed Edit, Premiere or Vegas?


DrVideo

Titus
01-25-2011, 05:03 PM
regarding dell love their support, they still try to help even if half of you dell computer is made from your own (not dell), its hard to get this with hp



Last year I've tried to setup an Avid system, they recommend specific HP or Mac configurations. Contacted HP by phone and the sales rep. told me: "I have to warn you, these machines are expensive". They never sent me any info/budget/etc. after that. I've got a DELL and SpeedEdit.