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WilliamVaughan
01-04-2011, 02:56 PM
Looks like Mr. Boughen has been busy:

http://cg-masters.com/videos/discipline/texture

Need to find the time to get to these!:thumbsup:

Larry_g1s
01-04-2011, 03:42 PM
Nice! That's great to have a lighting training, by a solid artist. Thanks for the heads up Will.

zarti
01-04-2011, 04:17 PM
thank you for the link ... there is houdini too ... interesting ... bookmarked !




.cheers

JeffrySG
01-04-2011, 04:30 PM
Looks like some great training there! Really nice to see lighting tutorials!

hrgiger
01-04-2011, 04:33 PM
Great resource, thanks William. Can always stand to learn more about lighting and texturing.

zarti
01-04-2011, 04:57 PM
thank you for the link ... there is houdini too ... interesting ... bookmarked !

wait a minute ... i was just purchasing the first video when i read this :

" I acknowledge the purchase will expire in 180 days. " ( ??!!?? ) WTF !?

Long Live the CMIVFX and RTFM !!


.mweeh

hrgiger
01-04-2011, 05:07 PM
wait a minute ... i was just purchasing the first video when i read this :

" I acknowledge the purchase will expire in 180 days. " ( ??!!?? ) WTF !?

Long Live the CMIVFX and RTFM !!


.mweeh

So it's online training that you have 6 months access to? Does that mean you can't download the videos to keep?

Larry_g1s
01-04-2011, 05:15 PM
So it's online training that you have 6 months access to? Does that mean you can't download the videos to keep?Due to online theft (forget piracy, let's call it what it is) I completely understand why someone would go this route. But it definitely does make things difficult for those of us who go about it honestly, to view these in a timely manner, and to re-familiarize ourselves with it sometime down the line. Six months seems like enough time with a busy schedule to view these, but that doesn't solve the second issue of re-familiarizing. Fortunately it's relatively inexpensive so it makes a six month cap reasonable.

zarti
01-04-2011, 05:19 PM
So it's online training that you have 6 months access to? Does that mean you can't download the videos to keep?
yes . imo , it is like selling clouds to someone .

you cannot reference to the materials ' when ' you need , etc ...

well , i'm not the RainMan , for sure . :D




.cheers

zarti
01-04-2011, 05:23 PM
Due to online theft ( ...

...


well , CMIVFX has found a solution ; they encode a pattern in the stream ( unreadable by humans , but easy to detect for a pc ) .




.cheers

Netvudu
01-04-2011, 05:24 PM
sorry but six months is very little time. I am a customer of CmiVFX and have purchased several videos from them and I can tell you Im stilll rewatching some stuff I forgot and that I still had at that server. Specially if you are working and under tight deadlines, 3 months can really fly.
I understand the business model, but I cannot accept that little time. It sounds more like "Im afraid my server might go down soon".

Cageman
01-04-2011, 06:35 PM
Due to online theft (forget piracy, let's call it what it is) I completely understand why someone would go this route.

I just wonder how long it will take until a crack-group creates a capture tool that will make this type of protection useless?

JeffrySG
01-04-2011, 07:20 PM
I just wonder how long it will take until a crack-group creates a capture tool that will make this type of protection useless?

My guess is about 1 week. ;) I hate the idea that people would be copying vids from training places such as these but many of the vids I buy or download for free I don't really get to fully view for a few weeks or months some times. And then I usually really enjoy going back to view them when I start a new project where referencing them might help sometimes a year later. I do think this will slow down the piracy but no where as much as it will slow down the honest people that would buy the vids in the first place. I think most/many people who would really pirate them wouldn't be in the market to really buy them anyway.

Anyway I wish them the best of luck as it looks like they have some great tutorials on their site. :thumbsup:

SplineGod
01-05-2011, 12:00 AM
I hope Nick does well with this. [Comment removed by the moderators] [Given the problem with] piracy its a wonder anyone would want to continue doing training. Personally Im glad to see Nick perservering. :)

zarti
01-05-2011, 02:11 AM
so this sums up like this :

the fair users pay the company for the damages they will get from piracy .

haa - ha ! Very 'next gen' ...

--

Hey Larry , how are things going ? Hope everything is ok ! =)



.cheers

WilliamVaughan
01-05-2011, 05:40 AM
It's a bit dramatic to assume cg-masters is treating you like a thief.... but I've come to expect that on forums.

I have no issue with not being able to download the material. I've been fortunate over the years to sit in on some amazing lectures and have learned a great deal from the lectures. I see this setup like sitting thru a lecture.

If it's not for you... pass... pretty simple.

Netvudu
01-05-2011, 05:45 AM
I dont have an issue with not being able to download either. I have the biggest isue with just being able to watch it for 6 months. Its unreasonable from any point of view.

zarti
01-05-2011, 06:21 AM
no , it is not dramatic at all , simply because nobody said ; that they said ; that we are thieves . ( ! )

i was just ready to finish my 1st purchase , when i read that .

simply didn't paid for that condition .

in the end , trying to immediately buy from them should be taken as a compliment from their part and expressing opinions , i believe , might be useful for them or any bussines . it is , imo , more useful than avoiding a product without expressing the reason ...



and by the way ; forums exist for that reason too , but anyway ...

lardbros
01-05-2011, 06:31 AM
Thanks for pointing us towards this William... would have jumped on this if I could download and archive. A bit of a shame... but know people will still buy!

When is Dan Ablan going to start doing LW10 training DVDs? His style is great... i'll cross my fingers and wait for those, until CGMasters decides to make these for download!

Lewis
01-05-2011, 06:47 AM
What's that "protection" system which plays video in browser or desktop and you can't save it ? AFAIK with Camtasia (maybe even with FRAPS wich can record played games also) you can save any video played on screen and save "system audio" so you can grab pretty much anything what you can watch/hear so i think that any playable but not down-loadable "protection" is just hassle for legit users and cracked video will come out very fast anyway :(.

On the other hand way it's great to see Nick doing more tutorials :).

cheers

JohnMarchant
01-05-2011, 06:47 AM
Well ive brought 1 video but will not buy anymore, not being able to download i can understand but then a 6 month cap im afraid is not acceptable.

Shame as the training looks very good and im enjoying the Lighting Instruments

DBMiller
01-05-2011, 07:17 AM
Many years ago (about LW4!) I was able to attend a LW seminar in Boston. They covered a lot and I took many notes. This was great fun and very educational. One of the topics was a new feature, inverse kinematics! I didn't get to replay any of that after the fact. It's just the nature of live training.
I've also purchased 3 of conceptart.org's streaming classes (on sale, the live sessions were too expensive). I got a link and 30 days to watch as many times as I wanted, although the links lasted longer than that.
I think it is the nature of a world used to instant access and downloadable everything that is the problem. Just think of it as a great lecture you get to attend! Pay attention, take notes, (screen grab if you must), and enjoy!

JohnMarchant
01-05-2011, 07:24 AM
Many years ago (about LW4!) I was able to attend a LW seminar in Boston. They covered a lot and I took many notes. This was great fun and very educational. One of the topics was a new feature, inverse kinematics! I didn't get to replay any of that after the fact. It's just the nature of live training.
I've also purchased 3 of conceptart.org's streaming classes (on sale, the live sessions were too expensive). I got a link and 30 days to watch as many times as I wanted, although the links lasted longer than that.
I think it is the nature of a world used to instant access and downloadable everything that is the problem. Just think of it as a great lecture you get to attend! Pay attention, take notes, (screen grab if you must), and enjoy!

Well as i said i have no problem not downloading, i can understand that in these times, but to open an account with them and then have a limit of 6 months to watch is my issue.

I wish them every success in the future, thats why i did not take the bulk order as i would not have had time to watch them all. Its the same with Kurv webinars i just cant guarantee to be available on the date so i end up getting the DVD.

I like to watch these tutorials whilst im sitting in an airport lounge or in a train when i have nothing else to do. Once im at home or work i tend to be allot busier.

WilliamVaughan
01-05-2011, 07:30 AM
no , it is not dramatic at all , simply because nobody said ; that they said ; that we are thieves . ( ! )

.

I was referring to this comment "I despise being treated like a thief."

Astralworkz
01-05-2011, 07:46 AM
I will definitely check out that videos, however - am I the only one that love old fashioned books?Would love to see that printed, can't wait to lay down my hands on the Inside Lw v10 by Dan Ablan.
(Got few Lw/Modo books and it rocks if you need quick reference but can't/don't want to use PC for that)


--
Kinda hate video tutorials, I know it's for maximizing the profit and works really well for individual- artists, but I hardly ever can find enough time to watch, experiment, watch, etc.. plus it's also down to the speed of the training....I think I watched like several times a DVD from Gnomon about making a future-gen character for games - that guy was insane - well cool you may say, if you just look at his workflow, but if you want to learn something from it(tried learn modeling in XSI) he was like " ..and then I do click, click, click, click....bam!...we're done" .....Am I gettin' older or something....?

WilliamVaughan
01-05-2011, 07:49 AM
I will definitely check out that videos, however - am I the only one that love old fashioned books?Would love to see that printed, can't wait to lay down my hands on the Inside Lw v10 by Dan Ablan.
(Got few Lw/Modo books and it rocks if you need quick reference but can't/don't want to use PC for that)


--
Kinda hate video tutorials, I know it's for maximizing the profit and works really well for individual- artists, but I hardly ever can find enough time to watch, experiment, watch, etc.. plus it's also down to the speed of the training....I think I watched like several times a DVD from Gnomon about making a future-gen character for games - that guy was insane - well cool you may say, if you just look at his workflow, but if you want to learn something from it(tried learn modeling in XSI) he was like " ..and then I do click, click, click, click....bam!...we're done" .....Am I gettin' older or something....?


Have you checked out Nick's LW9 lighting book... it's a must read IMHO.

DBMiller
01-05-2011, 07:50 AM
"am I the only one that love old fashioned books?Would love to see that printed..."

No, you are not! Books are still my favorite medium. I can look up what I want while still working in the program.

Astralworkz
01-05-2011, 07:51 AM
Have you checked out Nick's LW9 lighting book... it's a must read IMHO.


Yeah, as I said got most of the books for LW, but would be cool to have something updated to version...well at least 9.6 :)

OnlineRender
01-05-2011, 08:25 AM
" I can look up what I want while still working in the program.

That's why we have dual screens :) ,but I get your point ,physical assets are always worth more .

[] as for the 6 months video licence , I can't comment until I read it for myself , but I gather your rent the video at full cost ? and you get it view for 6months , correct me if I am wrong ? .

I can't see how implementing this is going to solve piracy related issues , but it works for them ,good 'on' them ,wish them all the best .

but surely you can just rip the data ?

WilliamVaughan
01-05-2011, 08:30 AM
The video I've watched so far has my name watermarked on the video.

Astralworkz
01-05-2011, 08:38 AM
Been making and braking websites for years, you don't need to hack anything, just use some prepaid card/paypal, buy the videos with John Doe printed on them....There's no such thing as hack proof system...
If there's such thing as book piracy it must be marginal hehe - trying to copy 1000+ pages book would be daunting task...:D

OnlineRender
01-05-2011, 08:44 AM
The video I've watched so far has my name watermarked on the video.

As in the personal download ? watermarks each users name into there own video ! , so if you do copy it , it will display the users name . "nice touch" I have that feature as well on 'Onserver Videos' .

it's another step , but nothing fast blur/repeat edges can't hide . :)

OnlineRender
01-05-2011, 08:46 AM
If there's such thing as book piracy it must be marginal hehe - trying to copy 1000+ pages book would be daunting task...:D

How do you think they made the Bible? :rock:



you don't need to hack anything, just use some prepaid card/paypal, buy the videos with John Doe printed on them.

wouldn't work unless it was duff paypal or cc acount , otherwise the source would be traced !

Astralworkz
01-05-2011, 08:57 AM
How do you think they made the Bible?

Hehe, thousand years from the original source, dozens of copywriters and translations and look what we have know.

If that would happen with the Lightwave manual/book, then we would be trying to render with the "F" key, most of the section would be missing -along with the content discs and there would be something mentioned about worley and his hairs.

Point is book piracy is marginal and does little harm


wouldn't work unless it was duff paypal or cc acount , otherwise the source would be traced !

Hehe, yeah...do you believe in magic as well?:D

Lor
01-05-2011, 09:39 AM
Hey, good morning everyone.

Wow! Who would have thought that two days after going live we would have started a controversy already! ;)

Yes, we are set up to provide online streaming content, and while that could change in the future, that's the way it is now. We've totally run out of web development money. :p The 6-month limit may be a bit short, I agree. But if we let it go forever, it will bury the company sooner or later unless we eventually switch to monthly or yearly subscriptions, which is essentially the same thing. You may notice many companies are getting into subscriptions.

But we want to be fair. We want to provide really good training (all our instructors are working pros in film or gaming) at a good price (about $10/hr) and that is useful. So how long would it take you to view a training video until you were sick to death of seeing it? Reasonably it is going to be obsolete in a year.

Here's your chance to vote!

Nick
cg-masters.com

erikals
01-05-2011, 09:40 AM
um, won't even more people pirate it if it is not officially down-loadable?
(cause surely one "smart" guy will hack it and put it on the web... people will then turn to that)

i always store my videos and re-view them years later....

anyway, looks good, might buy it,...

 

JBT27
01-05-2011, 10:15 AM
Likewise. Sorry that Nick has had problems in the past (join the club - who hasn't?), but I was about to buy until I saw this. Make them downloadable please, then I part with cash ... renting viewing time is not something I want to do. I've bought tons off Larry, and others, and I reference it often.

If this kind of training goes down this route, then have a subscription deal maybe, but frankly, like my books and DVDs and downloads, I need them here when I want them.

Julian.

JohnMarchant
01-05-2011, 10:26 AM
Hey, good morning everyone.

Wow! Who would have thought that two days after going live we would have started a controversy already! ;)

Yes, we are set up to provide online streaming content, and while that could change in the future, that's the way it is now. We've totally run out of web development money. :p The 6-month limit may be a bit short, I agree. But if we let it go forever, it will bury the company sooner or later unless we eventually switch to monthly or yearly subscriptions, which is essentially the same thing. You may notice many companies are getting into subscriptions.

But we want to be fair. We want to provide really good training (all our instructors are working pros in film or gaming) at a good price (about $10/hr) and that is useful. So how long would it take you to view a training video until you were sick to death of seeing it? Reasonably it is going to be obsolete in a year.

Here's your chance to vote!

lor :sunsm:

Well i really like the LW10 Lighting video, but would have thought twice if i had read that it was only viewable online. I really would like at least to have it so i can watch when i want or at least some subscription system instead of this 6 months to view.

Think maybe, or maybe its just me, it needs to be pointed out more that you are buying the ability to view. It certainly was not that clear to me, but like i said it could just be my eyes.

Very nice tutorial actually but as i said 6 months sounds allot but its not. What about the bundle, that's allot of training to get through in 6 months. I like the watermark on it, if it was downloadable it would be hard for anyone not to see who originally owned it, if it ever got out onto the net.

Anyway good luck with this, the quality is without question, just not happy with 6 months limit, but i do see your point.

Regards John

Lor
01-05-2011, 10:45 AM
no , it is not dramatic at all , simply because nobody said ; that they said ; that we are thieves . ( ! )

i was just ready to finish my 1st purchase , when i read that .

simply didn't paid for that condition .

in the end , trying to immediately buy from them should be taken as a compliment from their part and expressing opinions , i believe , might be useful for them or any bussines . it is , imo , more useful than avoiding a product without expressing the reason ...



and by the way ; forums exist for that reason too , but anyway ...

Too true, zarti, the comments are very useful. We'd much rather hear people's beefs out loud where we can try to fix them. We've only just started, and we expected there might have to be tweaks to our business model. We've had this exact debate before internally and now it's all fired up again, thanks alot! ;D We will try to find a solution that works for everybody. Well, almost everybody. :) We'll NEVER be able to please everybody.

So hang on. If the current model doesn't suit you, know that we're working it out, but we have to work it out in a way that will keep the business functioning, or what's the point. Suggestions are always welcome. As a first measure, we're happy to extend anyone who wants to or has already purchased to one year. Just send us a message on the contact form of the site and it shall be done.

Nick
cg-masters.com

Cageman
01-05-2011, 11:44 AM
Hmm...

Well... here is a quite simple solution for everyone...

Don't purchase unless you know you have the time to watch it. Also, I'm quite sure that if you talk to Nick or anyone else at CG-masters and tell them that... "...hey... I bought that video 1.5 years ago... I would really want to rewatch it... can I do so?" I'm quite sure they would allow that... heck... at that time they might even allow you to download it with a watermark or whatever... who knows?

:)

Ps. Nice to see you around Nick... I will certanly check out your trainingvideos... I simply love your LW9 Lighting book. :thumbsup:

Lor
01-05-2011, 11:50 AM
Thanks a lot Cageman. And you're right. If someone came back after a year and a half and had purchased it previously, of course we'd give the access back. We have decided to immediately increase the limit to 1 year (since that's easy and inexpensive with the developers) until we work out a solid permanent solution. This should be implemented by the end of the work day (Pacific Time)

Nick
cg-masters.com

JohnMarchant
01-05-2011, 11:56 AM
Thanks a lot Cageman. And you're right. If someone came back after a year and a half and had purchased it previously, of course we'd give the access back. We have decided to immediately increase the limit to 1 year (since that's easy and inexpensive with the developers) until we work out a solid permanent solution. This should be implemented by the end of the work day (Pacific Time)

Nick
cg-masters.com


:):):)

Netvudu
01-05-2011, 11:57 AM
Nick, a 1 year extension already starts to read much nicer to my eyes, and I can feel my money shaking in my pocket...surely 18 months would erase any trace of doubts...if that means anything to your business model debate :)

geo_n
01-05-2011, 12:00 PM
A solution would be since you already have the idea, is to make videos dowloadable but have it watermarked with the buyers real name. Is it possible to encode that fast like your steaming tech.

MAUROCOR
01-05-2011, 12:01 PM
I prefer a downloaded video too. Make it downloadable and I buy it too.
:thumbsup:

GraphXs
01-05-2011, 12:14 PM
Yes, download is preferred! Watermark sounds good! As other have said I would like to watch it more than once without a time limit. Or maybe I would think of a subscription option, but what happens if you and your site goes away? I no longer would have the videos for viewing.

kosmodave
01-05-2011, 12:19 PM
The problem I have found with online streaming is that my broadband connection gets ridiculously slow as the day goes on so by evening when I have the time and am ready to view anything, the speed is so slow that video does not work at all. During December I had a complimentary month of membership to Lynda.com to watch their excellent Adobe tutorials, but during that time I only managed to see three or four videos early one Saturday and Sunday morning, the rest of the time my broadband speed was down sometimes as low as 25kps :devil:.
My line has been tested and tested again and I am told I have a connection speed of up to 7 meg, and yes first thing in the morning that appears to be the case but not at 5pm every day.
Just tested my speed now and at 7.15pm it is averaging 0.7 meg download and 0.2meg upload. PANTS :cursin:
The government is trying to get more people connected to the Web but until there is more bandwidth available, things will only get worse IMO.

Dave

Nicolas Jordan
01-05-2011, 02:00 PM
I really enjoyed Nicholas Boughens Lighting book! It's good to know he is still using Lightwave and creating new training material for users. :)

JBT27
01-05-2011, 02:34 PM
The problem I have found with online streaming is that my broadband connection gets ridiculously slow as the day goes on so by evening when I have the time and am ready to view anything, the speed is so slow that video does not work at all. During December I had a complimentary month of membership to Lynda.com to watch their excellent Adobe tutorials, but during that time I only managed to see three or four videos early one Saturday and Sunday morning, the rest of the time my broadband speed was down sometimes as low as 25kps :devil:.
My line has been tested and tested again and I am told I have a connection speed of up to 7 meg, and yes first thing in the morning that appears to be the case but not at 5pm every day.
Just tested my speed now and at 7.15pm it is averaging 0.7 meg download and 0.2meg upload. PANTS :cursin:
The government is trying to get more people connected to the Web but until there is more bandwidth available, things will only get worse IMO.

Dave

Yep ... that's a piece of hard truth for these parts.

Julian.

JohnMarchant
01-05-2011, 03:05 PM
That's before we get into the fact that allot of us are on capped broadband as well, so it costs us as well if we go over that, which is easier than you think.

My money is still with download, with a watermark with our name, maybe your details on it as well for people to report if they have brought it off some other dodgy car boot vendor.

To be honest which ever way you go its still going to be hard to stop piracy if some people want to do it. We here are talking on this thread because we wish to support people like you guys who are willing to give use the benefit of your knowledge, it sort of behoves you to trust us not to pass on your product to others, thats not to say it wont happen, but if it does then you can revert back to plan A.

Dexter2999
01-05-2011, 03:09 PM
I like DVD's. They look all nice on my bookshelf an' stuff.

hrgiger
01-05-2011, 03:14 PM
Hey, good morning everyone.

Wow! Who would have thought that two days after going live we would have started a controversy already! ;)

Yes, we are set up to provide online streaming content, and while that could change in the future, that's the way it is now. We've totally run out of web development money. :p The 6-month limit may be a bit short, I agree. But if we let it go forever, it will bury the company sooner or later unless we eventually switch to monthly or yearly subscriptions, which is essentially the same thing. You may notice many companies are getting into subscriptions.

But we want to be fair. We want to provide really good training (all our instructors are working pros in film or gaming) at a good price (about $10/hr) and that is useful. So how long would it take you to view a training video until you were sick to death of seeing it? Reasonably it is going to be obsolete in a year.

Here's your chance to vote!

Nick
cg-masters.com

Nick- here are my thoughts on the matter. I already dropped a line over at CG-Masters but basically the idea of a time limit on training material doesn't appeal to me. I'm very much interested in learning all I can about lighting and texturing and these videos look like a great resource for the CG artist. However, as a generalist, I treat learning material as a continual reference for me. I might get into some training but if the training in question doesn't pertain to work I'm currently doing, I usually shelve it until it is relevant to my current project at which point I like to refer to it as necessary so the idea of not having it in 6 months when I might decide it would be useful for me doesn't sound good. Ok- buy it when you do need it. Sure, sound advice, except that I buy things when I have the money and who knows if and when I decide the training would be useful to me how much expendable income I have for extra purchases like this as money changes all the time for me. So bottom line is I hope that you talented lot over at CG-Masters can come up with a different strategy that works for both us and you.

I don't have a problem with a subscription per se, but I dont' like the idea of paying for 6 months all up front like it is now. I'd rather be able to join as necessary for a much lower monthly rate like $10-$15.

But that's still not ideal. Ideally I would either want a digital download that I can keep or have a password protected permanent license that I could view the content as needed.

zarti
01-05-2011, 03:29 PM
Hi Lor ,


i'm , just like many here , very interested for tutorials , made by pro-s esp . knowledge never hurts ... =)


So how long would it take you to view a training video until you were sick to death of seeing it?not sure Lor , but that's the main problem in my case .
plus , 3d-apps today are very rich in contexts . sometimes i use an app just to model , sometimes just to render , sometimes i use another software ...
example ; i have the Lsystem video from CMI . my clients yet haven't asked me something where i can use 'that context' . haven't seen the video yet , but i have already paid it ( $aved $ome ) . it is 'up there' ( unconsumed ) but they are setting up new servers with few $s from it . ;)


Reasonably it is going to be obsolete in a year. i'm afraid , not . still today people keep downloading old lw tutorials , even for a very specific tool / command / solution . usually , up-to-date video tutorials cover new features . that doesn't mean that old tools aren't in an app or everyone has used it professionally during his career .
pardon Lor , we are talking about tools , concepts and their unlimited combinations .

this one just for fun since you were doing 'our math' ;
if a video is going to be obsolete in a year , mmm ... why do you not sell them for half price that year and the next 2nd year give it for free ?? :hey:


serious now , and these are some Fair suggestions or what id like ;

1-if i pay a video , i need to have it , even online ( i do not insist in the downloadable versions ) . some say it is a lecture . imo , no . it is a book with moving pictures and pages that turn auto-magically . =)

2-optionally , if id subscribe yearly ( as a payment process , not life span of my videos ) i'd agree , why not (?) . and let me the option to subscribe to a preselected set of apps . i'm interested in few of them , so that wd make my investment more efficient . if do not subscribe next year , i 'deserve' to see my 'old' videos . in few words ; id like to see a flexible subscription system .

3-make polls ( here and in similar places ) to ask people about the kind of tutorials they need most . id suggest more project-driven tutorials , not the ui-expedition-style . doing that id be more happy for what i paid ... and of course , you'd had a lot of reasons and ideas to produce interesting tutorials .

Lor , too much brain there @cg-masters , so i'm sure you'll succeed in your entrepreneurship regardless of my personal decision ;D ...


{ ... which might bend occasionally when the 'houdini gurus' will spread some of their wisdom }




.goodluck

Fsoto
01-05-2011, 03:32 PM
If it's downloadable, I'll buy. I don't mind the watermark.

kevman3d
01-05-2011, 03:45 PM
That's before we get into the fact that allot of us are on capped broadband as well, so it costs us as well if we go over that, which is easier than you think.

Ditto. Not everybody on the planet has cable modems and uncapped high speed internet like a lot of my friends in the USA. Sometimes I think people forget this...

I also have extreme minimal internet access at work (250Mb a month per user (after which it costs our department at a per-Mb rate)) - which means that I need offline materials if I want to use my downtime in the office to upskill.



If there's such thing as book piracy it must be marginal hehe - trying to copy 1000+ pages book would be daunting task...

They're called eBooks - Plus publishing these days is digital which makes it easy to produce online copies. There's plenty of online book piracy. Sad - cause it screws the authors who can only recoup all their time and effort through royalties on actual sales. 8/

Lor
01-05-2011, 04:14 PM
Hey guys,

Thanks a lot for your well thought out opinions, suggestions and thoughts. I need to get with my partners and work it out before we come back with something, but I want you guys to know in the meantime that you're heard.

It's a new, experimental business model. We want it to work. We really want to get big enough to offer all kinds of flexibility including memberships, subscriptions, and/or individual purchases, and yes maybe even downloads, but we do need to move carefully so we don't make a bad decision and tank right out of the gate. Dammit Jim, I'm an artist, not a businessman! ;)

I appreciate your patience, and I totally understand if the model doesn't work for you right now. Hopefully we'll come up with something that will do it for you. Please bear in mind, we're little right now, not some big, crazy, greedy corporation.

Nick

JohnMarchant
01-05-2011, 04:17 PM
Hey guys,

Thanks a lot for your well thought out opinions, suggestions and thoughts. I need to get with my partners and work it out before we come back with something, but I want you guys to know in the meantime that you're heard.

It's a new, experimental business model. We want it to work. We really want to get big enough to offer all kinds of flexibility including memberships, subscriptions, and/or individual purchases, and yes maybe even downloads, but we do need to move carefully so we don't make a bad decision and tank right out of the gate. Dammit Jim, I'm an artist, not a businessman! ;)

I appreciate your patience, and I totally understand if the model doesn't work for you right now. Hopefully we'll come up with something that will do it for you.

Nick

No mate you are a businessman as well now. Hopefully you will come up with a model that suits most people. Look forward to hearing what you and your partners decide.

Regards John

RebelHill
01-05-2011, 06:33 PM
I purchased these YEARS ago and needed a refresher.

Yeah, I can certainly understand why many buyers would feel this way...

Y'know sometimes I have to go back and rewatch parts of MY OWN videos to try and remember how I did something, or how I explained it.

Try that on for size.

COBRASoft
01-05-2011, 07:45 PM
Lor: I'm very interested too, if I can download them.

I understand why you want to go this way, but there are video grabbing programs available to 'download' everything if needed. Hence, I could even 'record' the whole thing with my HD recorder, connected to my computer, if I wanted. So, this 'security' against theft is not working very well for 'smart' people'. The watermark with our personal name in it is a much better idea. You would be able to trace the person back if piracy happens. Now I think about this further, there's software around to blur the watermark out and you wouldn't be able to read who's video it is. Placing the watermark in a strategic place would be required to solve this.

Damn, this is not an easy topic, ask Hollywood :(.

COBRASoft
01-06-2011, 08:27 AM
Yeah, Hollywood fails to protect their stuff and they have lots of money... As said, not an easy topic.

GregMalick
01-06-2011, 08:34 AM
I vote for down-load too.
I signed up and was purchasing the entire set until I noticed the time limit.

JeffrySG
01-06-2011, 09:18 AM
Yep, download with watermark would be ideal - but I'm not sure if that would mean everybody's video would need to be compressed individually for them? that's a lot of processor time..... doh

Lor
01-06-2011, 11:12 AM
Good morning guys,

We discussed this for several more hours last night. I say several "More" hours because it's been an ongoing discussion through the whole dev process and will, no doubt, continue as we try to provide a great service that works for everybody. This will take some growth, and your input.

Our primary goal is to provide high quality training from pros at a price that's so good you don't have to think about it twice. We think $60 for 2 hrs of training sucks. We think especially that young, starting (starving) artists just can't afford that. We know. We've been there. We believe very strongly that our price point is the crucial balance to providing the community a valuable service without being greedy and without losing our shirts. Without raising prices we can not, at this time, provide a download. Sorry about that. Most especially to those who have terrible connection speeds, because we just don't have any solution for you right now. We feel your pain.

What we can do for those who want to look at their vids 5 years from now is: In the short term (immediately) we are extending all licenses to 18 months. All those of you who have already purchased should see that extension on your "my videos" page. Let us know if we missed you. We had to do them manually, one at a time so it's possible we missed one or two.

Before the end of that 18 month period we will either 1)provide you with a downloadable version to keep before the video is either upgraded or offlined. 2)decide to keep all videos online in perpetuity. Or both. We won't know which way to go until we've been in business for a while.

I know this won't satisfy everybody. I hope you don't write us off. It's my sincere hope that in the future we will be able to provide all the flexibility that you guys have asked for.

As the entertainment industry grows at a dizzying pace, we think there's a real need for great teaching out there across the full spectrum of software. And as battle-tested artists and supervisors, we think we can do it better than anyone else. It's a learning process, though.

Thanks for your support, even if that support comes in the form of well-wishes and suggestions.


Nick

hrgiger
01-06-2011, 11:24 AM
Well Nick, it's not ideal for me but this is a great compromise in the meantime. As soon as I get paid tomorrow, you have a sale from me.

mikala
01-06-2011, 11:27 AM
The cmiVFX model (subscription/delivery)is working for me.
Something similar on your site would make getting your materials a no brainer buy.

Drocket
01-06-2011, 01:23 PM
Okay just purchased, it still says 180 days but as you are extending to 18 months no probs, would still prefer a download option though if possible in the future.

Looks great so far :)

Lor
01-06-2011, 01:33 PM
Drocket, the coding change hasn't taken effect yet to show 18 mo when you purchase, but it will. In the mean time, it should be changed manually. If it isn't within a couple of days, just drop a contact message and we'll get you sorted.

Nick

Drocket
01-06-2011, 02:11 PM
Drocket, the coding change hasn't taken effect yet to show 18 mo when you purchase, but it will. In the mean time, it should be changed manually. If it isn't within a couple of days, just drop a contact message and we'll get you sorted.

Nick

Hi Nick,

No probs, I am in the middle of moving overseas (next week!!) so lots to do, I am hoping I will get time over the coming month to watch them proper.

Thanks,

Andrew.

lardbros
01-06-2011, 02:42 PM
Well done.... this seems more appealing already!!! Might jump in and spend some of my xmas money! :D

sandman300
01-06-2011, 03:08 PM
I like the subscription idea. Sort of like a magazine with video content. I'd sign up for that.

zarti
01-06-2011, 03:09 PM
Lor , nice to know you heard us and rethinked the thing . so as a sign of good will from my part , you just got a tiny propelling contribution . =)



.cheers

cresshead
01-06-2011, 03:10 PM
re how video training has changed in the way businesses sell it.

used to be sold on cdrm/dvd discs...i bought one every month or so from the likes of splinegod, digital tutors, 3dbuzz, gnomon etc

then they mostly ALL moved to a subscription 'watch now' via you being logged into their website and you had to pay an ongoing fee for access.

guess what?
didn't bother, it just doesn't fit my way of working at all.
i don't pay per month for tv, telephone or any media
i prefer to purchase it so i can watch it when i want, where i want..such as on my psp, mobi or net book sat on the bus to work.

IF i ever did subscribe to such a service i'd only do so if i set up a video camera so i can record it to a file so i can watch it when ever....simple as that. so in essence it's a non starter for me.

i once bought a xsi video training pack that required you to LOCK it to your pc...did that once...found the whole feeling that i was treated like a 3 year old and a naughty one at that...really..no thank you, if you have to treat all your customers as though they'll nick everything then your in the wrong business.

sure some will steal, upload and share..there's always a % of people who'll do that in a society but you can't treat everyone like that..some will buy your products and come back for more.

thesedays i just youtube for results of people putting up free training videos on subjects.

i'd like to buy products but people just want to rent stuff now and not sell stuff.

Astralworkz
01-06-2011, 03:13 PM
guess what?
didn't bother, it just doesn't fit my way of working at all.
i don't pay per month for tv, telephone or any media

So, you're not paying TV license?:D

cresshead
01-06-2011, 03:14 PM
Lor just spotted your post above: good move!

cresshead
01-06-2011, 03:15 PM
So, you're not paying TV license?:D

correct, i've not had a tV for 4+ years now so no tv licence
i buy films on dvd and watch podcasts on a laptop...waay better "tv" ie totally rad show, diggnation, film riot etc.

i don't "subscribe" or have credit/loans for anything other than my mortage...if the rest of the planet did that we'd not be in such a mess with bad debt!

antsj
01-06-2011, 04:07 PM
Thanks LOR for "discussing the questions" potential buyers had here on the forum. The outcome has been more in direction of eventual download. I prefer the purchase and download option given the style of learning I have favors going back to trainings that participated in and need to review again.

The option is not there yet but you are discussing it and allowing 18 months over previous brief period. I will be looking at the topics with more interest now.

Still prefer the download for learning and being able to use on computer not attached to internet. Again, thanks for the changes in providing 18 months access.

aj

MAUROCOR
01-06-2011, 04:16 PM
I bought it! And it is great! I hope to have download access til the end of my subscription. Please?:D
I didnt whatch everything but it seams you mention nothing about LW10 Color Space, is that right?:stumped: I was hoping something about that too.:(
Other than that it is a great tutorial and you have the skill to teach,LOR!

Sarford
01-06-2011, 04:23 PM
Personally, I would vote for download also. Like many said before, trainings never expire.

As an alternate non-downloadable option:
You could let anybody create an account with your service for free, which would be active indefinitely. Then people could buy video's on that account which show up in their 'purchased videos' section so they can view them whenever they want, even years from now.

Or make an app for the mobile phones and solely distribute it through that.

GregMalick
01-06-2011, 04:54 PM
Well, having seen the post about extending to 18 months, I gotta say I'm going to go for it.

Reasons:


LOR already has done some great lighting tutorials and I have some confidence these will be at least as good
They are making an good faith effort to deal with potential customer's concerns
Within 18 months I hope LW11 will be out and new videos will be available - so that was a good compromise.
The $85 cost for 10 hours of Lighting training is very very reasonable
If the community fails to support trainers, pretty soon we won't have any


Having said all that, I'm wondering if the streaming videos can be restarted in the middle. i have a hard time watching even 20 minutes of training without taking a break and some of those appear to be pretty long.

Dexter2999
01-06-2011, 05:07 PM
Compromise? Subscription to watch the video. Have the steps outlined in a PDF that is downloadable?

Not as good as a downloaded video but better than nothing.

Lor
01-06-2011, 05:16 PM
Hey everybody, thanks for the nice votes of confidence. :beerchug:

First of all, Cresshead, how do you LIVE without a TV? :devil: (actually envious)

Maurocor, yes you're right, we didn't do a bit on Colourspace yet. I have one planned and depending on how long it ends up, it might be separate, or added in to one of the existing videos. (one advantage of online is you get to see any tweaks immediately). I'm glad you're getting something out of the training.

Sarford, the alternate non-downloadable suggestion is essentially in place now. Although we technically have an 18-month limit, we will resolve that so the training material will be available in perpetuity. Hmmmm.... Iphone tutorials.....we actually discussed that but thought the screen res would suck.

Greg, Aloha! The videos are split up into labeled chapters. Hit the play button and you'll be able to click on any of the chapters below the viewing pane.

And don't forget to rate the vids! You can set your rating underneath the viewing pane. And if you have suggestions, please let us know through the contact form. This is also a good place for topic requests. We're just getting started.

Nick

cresshead
01-06-2011, 05:31 PM
simple...unplug it....throw it away...done!
internet has better programs now when 'i want to watch 'em.

hey good luck on your training vids, and a massive thank you for listening to your prospective customers opnions

COBRASoft
01-06-2011, 05:39 PM
Lor: thanks for listening! I agree it is not perfect, but it's already much better than previous. If I have the money (next month probably), I'll buy them :).

Tonttu
01-06-2011, 06:36 PM
[Removed by moderator] This requires no hacking skills at all. Just successfully downloaded: [removed by moderator]

Moderator's note: Tonttu, your motive appears to be to alert the site owner to a possible security flaw which leaves his online materials at risk. While this may be well meant, it would be best to do so by PM rather than in the open forum (even when only barest details are mentioned). Thank you in advance for complying.

Lor
01-06-2011, 07:12 PM
[Quote removed by moderator.]

Tonttu, if you choose to purchase any material, please do carefully read the EULA before you purchase.

I'm not sure I appreciate a public announcement of how to pirate property from a four-day-old business. That's almost enough to make me throw up my hands and walk away.

Nick

stevmjon
01-06-2011, 07:28 PM
i would pay extra for a download.

what is the difference between someone streaming a video (probably multiple times), compared to one download? i am still not clear on this.

stevmjon

kevman3d
01-06-2011, 10:36 PM
So, you're not paying TV license?:D

lol! We had the broadcasting fee (ie. TV License) dropped here in NZ a couple decades ago. In a way I'm glad cause it used to be annoying to see trashy TV shows with the phrase "This show was paid for with your broadcasting fee" :D

Good luck Nick - I watched some of your previews, and the training looks great! Like that I'm seeing LW10 VPR being used a lot to show how well it works as a workflow for lighting! :thumbsup:

colkai
01-07-2011, 02:02 AM
simple...unplug it....throw it away...done!
internet has better programs now when 'i want to watch 'em.
Providing of course you do not watch any BBC programs on the net.
They have recently prosecuted someone for watching their programs on the net without a license.

Boo!
01-07-2011, 04:52 AM
...hey!.
...just bumped into this last night!. watched the previews and they are SO just what i NEED right now.:rock:
...
...im most def a fan of DVD training and downloading training!. as for the piracy side of things i think people have pretty much covered that BUT i would like to repeat what many have said, there are so many that will pay for your products.!...
...
...couple of questions
...how long does it take to get rolling once i have made a purchase?.
...are you planning to do any modelling, rigging and animation for LW?.
...
...love the previews and i WILL BE ORDERING the LW 9.6 lighting training!.

cresshead
01-07-2011, 06:14 AM
Providing of course you do not watch any BBC programs on the net.
They have recently prosecuted someone for watching their programs on the net without a license.

your cannot watch broadcasting programs UK tv on the net ie they are 'live' and being broacast to tv's and the net, such as news 24, or the 'live channels on bbc.co.uk

you can freely watch recorded programs found on iplayer as they are not being broadcast.

we're going off topic here...so sorry but wanted to clarify that.

Lor
01-07-2011, 09:52 AM
Kevman, yeah, the VPR totally rocks for lighting artists. :lwicon::thumbsup:

Boo! You get to watch the instant you purchase. Yes, we're planning everything for LightWave. It's just a matter of artist time. They're all working fulltime. But I nag them fairly often ;)

Nick

hrgiger
01-07-2011, 10:08 AM
Just bought. Thanks Lor!

Lor
01-07-2011, 10:18 AM
Just bought. Thanks Lor!

Thanks hrgiger. Hope you like 'em. Let us know if you have any suggestions. And look for the rating stars under the viewing window!

Oh and to anyone else who wonders, the Mech model in some of the the tutorials is not currently available as downloadable content, but we're trying to get permission.

Nick

hrgiger
01-07-2011, 10:26 AM
Oh and to anyone else who wonders, the Mech model in some of the the tutorials is not currently available as downloadable content, but we're trying to get permission.

Nick

Oh dear. I was just going to sit down and do the first video but that puts a snag in it since the first tutorial uses it. I hope you can get permission to use this for these tutorials. I would suggest that future tutorials have the content included already.

Boo!
01-07-2011, 11:10 AM
Boo! You get to watch the instant you purchase. Yes, we're planning everything for LightWave. It's just a matter of artist time. They're all working fulltime. But I nag them fairly often ;)

Nick[/QUOTE]

:thumbsup: great stuff!...nag them nag them!...hhahahha.

...I just read your reply to Hrigger regrading the Mech model. is the content shown in the LW 9.6 lighting vid available?...i think it has a model of a kid?...
...
...i actually only really want to know how to really light a scene using global illumination nicely.

Lor
01-07-2011, 11:22 AM
Hey guys, I am just negotiating the details of the mech model and will hopefully have it up as a file attachment tonight or tomorrow.

Boo!, yes I can put together the content for that video too. I'll get that up this weekend.

Sorry guys, I shoulda thought of this before.

Nick

Carm3D
01-07-2011, 11:29 AM
I despise being treated like a thief. Hopefully they will reconsider and offer at the least downloads.

I'm with you there... Don't punish your paying customers.

Eagle66
01-07-2011, 11:33 AM
Can you tell all artists to record only the App not more as 1280px and not the whole Desktop. The first Houdini Video for example don't work in Fullscreen. You can't read the small Fonts at the nodes. LW 9 and 10 Lightning are all okay.

Drocket
01-07-2011, 11:40 AM
Oh dear. I was just going to sit down and do the first video but that puts a snag in it since the first tutorial uses it. I hope you can get permission to use this for these tutorials. I would suggest that future tutorials have the content included already.

+1, I didn't know the objects were not part of the purchase so I hope you can get permission to include all the content.

Edit: Thanks for the update Nick.

Lor
01-07-2011, 11:49 AM
Can you tell all artists to record only the App not more as 1280px and not the whole Desktop. The first Houdini Video for example don't work in Fullscreen. You can't read the small Fonts at the nodes. LW 9 and 10 Lightning are all okay.

Hi Eagle66, are you having problems with the Procedural Anim Houdini vid or the Lighting and Shading one?

Nick

zarti
01-07-2011, 11:58 AM
I was able to see houdini's video in fullscreen mode. quality was good enough so I think trying different size-quality-framerate should be further tested to get the best . Size matters in this case ...

the rythm was good . concise . just like a good ref material . Keep it up !

when is coming the next one ?? ;D



.cheers

Lor
01-07-2011, 12:06 PM
I was able to see houdini's video in fullscreen mode. quality was good enough so I think trying different size-quality-framerate should be further tested to get the best . Size matters in this case ...

the rythm was good . concise . just like a good ref material . Keep it up !

when is coming the next one ?? ;D
.cheers

Well now that's interesting. Zarti do you mean the resolution could be LOWER, framerate SLOWER and it might still work for you? Interested to hear others thoughts on this. We definitely want the quality to be high enough to serve everybody's purpose.

Next Houdini LIghting vid? Working on it. :)

Nick

GregMalick
01-07-2011, 12:13 PM
Aloha Nick,

yep I purchase the set last night and I figured out the chapter segments you mentioned. Watched the first intro and began the second one regarding the mech mesh. Couldn't figure out where that mesh was - so i put that on hold. I hope you can get permission for sharing that - I'd like to use my second monitor for the training while following on my primary monitor in LW.

Anyway - congrats on what looks like exemplary training.

zarti
01-07-2011, 12:22 PM
Well , imo , size in pixels could be bigger ( ui space was not comfortable for the author , I believe ) . that might reduce quality or framerate . I do not know exactly where the compromise wd happen . But bigger frame in pixels , is first in' my list' , in short . The second is the streaming size . This is just my opinion =)

Oh , and since we are ; lowering a bit the opacity ( 5%-10% ) of my name would make it still functional for your purpose but wd make it less distracting .

Again , Best Wishes !

Eagle66
01-07-2011, 03:13 PM
Hi Eagle66, are you having problems with the Procedural Anim Houdini vid or the Lighting and Shading one?
Nick

The Letters in the Houdini Video are not readable, because he record the hole screen - see attach.

Make Size and Framerate like the Lightwave Videos - they are are all okay and clear.

Or: put the Flash-Video in a Pop-Up Window, so you can scale it seamless in the size.

Thanks :thumbsup:

zarti
01-07-2011, 03:27 PM
pardon for any confusion ...

at both of my posts above i was referring to the 'lighting and shading' videos ( with the dark ui . maybe that's why my name was so distinctive too ) . the new video about animation , i just noticed it . it wasn't up yesterday ...


.cheers

edit:

Eagle66 you are right . i am just looking at the preview video and i think that text becomes unreadable because the video is squashed horizontally . judging from the height of the text , it should be readable if the video is re-encoded with the corrected width . i'll wait for that correction to see this video .

Lor
01-07-2011, 03:36 PM
The Letters in the Houdini Video are not readable, because he record the hole screen - see attach.

Make Size and Framerate like the Lightwave Videos - they are are all okay and clear.

Or: put the Flash-Video in a Pop-Up Window, so you can scale it seamless in the size.

Thanks :thumbsup:

OIC. Yep, we'll take care of that for future vids.


Zarti, we've done a lot of experimenting with resolution/framerate vs size/streamability. We think there's a good balance there, and the image quality should be great on a computer monitor. We're open to more feedback though and will revisit this if needed.


Nick

Boo!
01-07-2011, 04:23 PM
Hey guys, I am just negotiating the details of the mech model and will hopefully have it up as a file attachment tonight or tomorrow.

Boo!, yes I can put together the content for that video too. I'll get that up this weekend.

Sorry guys, I shoulda thought of this before.

Nick

...nice one dude!. :thumbsup:
...:bowdown: got to give it to you for jumpin in and answering all the questions etc. thanks!!!...
...

Lor
01-07-2011, 04:33 PM
...nice one dude!. :thumbsup:
...:bowdown: got to give it to you for jumpin in and answering all the questions etc. thanks!!!...
...

Well the way I see it, we're just starting out, we're going to make mistakes, and we will need to clean up the rough edges. The least we can do to thank people for putting up with it is answer questions and concerns. I guess that's part of the idea behind the intro pricing. "Come check us out! And sorry for the :censored:-ups."

Nick

rkpdesign
01-07-2011, 08:29 PM
Lor,

i presume it's just a typo...but, the package deal shows:

Lightwave 10 - Light Types

but the individual videos list has:

Lightwave 10 - Lighting Instruments
or
Lightwave 9.6 - Lighting Instruments

are these the same?

ps, won't change my decision to buy...just waiting for $$

Lor
01-07-2011, 08:39 PM
Hi rkpdesign

<edit> Oh yeah, saw the typo. Thanks for the catch!

Nick

IMI
01-07-2011, 08:59 PM
Well this is sort of off topic insofar as LW is concerned.
But regarding downloading vs. having to be online to watch, I was skeptical at first when I bought my Digital Tutors subscription, for the same reason. I have a number of DT physical disks and I wasn't so sure I'd be willing to part with the convenience of being able to easily refer back.
But they did a few amazing things that I've really come to like - For one, they have the ability to create annotations anywhere you want to in any video and your own personal library of reference material - clips or entire videos.
It's an awesome feature, but if you can't get past not being able to have a physical copy, it's not going to make up for that, probably.
Myself, I don't care anymore. The DT customer support staff is *amazing* at...well, at customer support.;) And all their tutors are top notch, making it all well worth it IMO.

The point being, if it's going to be online viewing only, you should add some perks to sweeten the pot...
For another, 45 dollars a month to be able to watch any video at any time out of their *entire* collection is an amazing deal. I watch all the videos, even for apps I don't even have and it's given me far more insight into the whole 3D CG world that I would never get simply buying, say, one video at a time for the same price. Because I would never learn about, say, how to use Composite, Photoshop and Maya to make an animation, because I wouldn't buy those videos. And being that I have 4 very good computers I can spend almost all year using and learning the latest trial versions of Maya and 3ds max perfectly legally, and without DT, it wouldn't even be interesting. ;)

Well, I think if you're selling specialized videos and not offering a download, you should either offer a whole lot, such as your entire catalog, like DT does, or come way down on your prices... OR just change your mind and make it available for physical download.
Even if I were still interested in LW, I wouldn't buy this training. I'm sure it's excellent, but it's also rather expensive to get the whole package. Personally I'd say it's excessively expensive.
Plus I already have Essential LightWave v9, which is an awesome book and pretty much tells everything about lighting in LW I need to know. That book is seriously worn out after about 2 years or more of reading it over and over again. :)
Anyway, DT has set a new standard and online video trainers are going to have a hard time meeting it.

JAW
01-08-2011, 06:51 AM
Videos look great, but no DL and Disks, ill be passing also unless they they release make it so u can save it. I watch my stuff all the time to refresh up.

Lor
01-08-2011, 09:10 AM
Good Morning guys,

The Mech model is now posted to the texturing vids (Huge Thanks to Cameron Craddock, the original artist), the kitchen model is posted to the Practical Ligting Vid, and the kid scene is posted to the LW9.6 Lighting Instruments vid. Enjoy!

Nick

GregMalick
01-08-2011, 11:38 AM
Aloha Nicholas,

I just finished the very first video of texturing & lighting the mech. Wow! Great stuff. I don't think there was a single thing on it's own that I wasn't at least somewhat aware of in the first vid - but the way you put it together is so excellent.

I do wish you'd tone down the watermark a tiny bit. I found it very hard to see the camouflage texture on the gun when my name showed across it. I'm trying hard to see all the things you are pointing out.

Congrats & thanks on some great training.

Lor
01-08-2011, 02:18 PM
Thanks for the review, Greg, I'm glad you're liking the material. I'll see what I can do about the watermark. That's not an easy balance either, but I totally get what you're saying, especially considering the dark nature of that video.

Nick

GregMalick
01-08-2011, 04:21 PM
Aloha Nicholas,

Don't sweat it too much. With the assets available, I can now just set it up and see what you're talking about within LW. If there's anything that really becomes a problem, I'll let you know.

Thanks Again.


Thanks for the review, Greg, I'm glad you're liking the material. I'll see what I can do about the watermark. That's not an easy balance either, but I totally get what you're saying, especially considering the dark nature of that video.

Nick

3DBob
01-08-2011, 05:18 PM
I have bought a lot of training this past few years. I only buy downloads.... The main reason is internet is very expensive where I am and streaming multiple times would create a cumulative cost.

I was pretty much gonna buy the lot for LW - then saw it is streaming. I don't mind watermark - What they do here for cable - is have your subscriber number appear in different places on the screen randomly through a film. That way it is not annoyingly there all the time and also makes it hard to remove.

I don't mind something that has a container to play in locally, The downloaded video could check you had bought it by sending a very small video / client specific code to server for confirmation. This way you still need to be connected - but user can review many times without hogging their net bandwidth. I prefer the model of something like TMPGNC where every so often they ask for the app to be re-authorised on the web. That for me would be Ideal as you could authorise before going on holiday or on a plane.

3DBob

MentalFish
01-08-2011, 06:03 PM
Just do a screen and audio capture while watching the video the first time, and save it to disk for later viewing.

MentalFish
01-08-2011, 06:06 PM
That's a BIG no-no. Violates the EULA. Even though I would REALLY like to buy this training, I won't be doing this - and nor should ANYONE else.

Where can I read that EULA?

MentalFish
01-08-2011, 06:46 PM
I have been all over the site and can't find anything. Perhaps I need to register first.

EDIT: Should have gone back a few pages before splurting on about this, was still in 6 months mode here...
I am wondering, with the expiration of access to the video, is it expected that the same person buy (rent?) it again if he or she wishes watch it after the expiration date? If the reason for this is bandwidth, then a downloadable would fix that. If it is a measure against piracy its flawed at best and it only keeps potential customers away (as can be seen in this thread).

Also, there is no security in streaming video as long as it ends up on a screen somewhere. If it can be seen, it can be captured. The only security that might work (to some extent) is to have a bouncing user id, but that will only stop those who bought it under their real name + credit card. If someone uses a false name with a stolen creditcard + screencapture... no safety and posted by a nitwit on cgpersia in no time.

The best way to get happy customers and a measure against piracy and server expences would be a bouncing watermark on a downloadable video (custom player or rendered out pr customer).

If I bought a video and grabbed the cache file or screen captured it for safe keepings, would they make more money if I did not buy it and not keeping the cache files/capturing it? The damage is done when the video starts to spread on the interwibbles for free, if the file exists in the browser cache or captured as a .mov does not affect their business, unless its expected that the same customer purchase the same video over again some time down the road. If that is the case then my proposal is most likely against the EULA and should be disregarded.

I can swear I wont be screen capturing any of those videos.

MentalFish
01-08-2011, 07:00 PM
What we can do for those who want to look at their vids 5 years from now is: In the short term (immediately) we are extending all licenses to 18 months. All those of you who have already purchased should see that extension on your "my videos" page. Let us know if we missed you. We had to do them manually, one at a time so it's possible we missed one or two.

Before the end of that 18 month period we will either 1)provide you with a downloadable version to keep before the video is either upgraded or offlined. 2)decide to keep all videos online in perpetuity. Or both. We won't know which way to go until we've been in business for a while

Well, that settles it then. No prob. :thumbsup:

rwhunt99
01-08-2011, 08:33 PM
I really want to buy the vids, but somehow, I'm purchasing - what, exactly? I can't keep it, I have a bad memory, I don't feel I should have to go to a website to see something I bought. Dog gone it, oh well maybe someone else will do some training and I can buy it.

Dexter2999
01-08-2011, 08:45 PM
yeah, I'm all "old school" (mostly the old part).

I remember going to school and learning stuff and having to take notes. Wow, those were the days.

But seriously, that is why I suggested basically a PDF of the class. You watch the training and learn. Later if you need a "refresh" and it is past the subscription, you have a written copy of the training to refer to. And if he is giving you the assets to go with the video, you have a scene to refer to with the material.

Is it as good as having the download? NO.
Is it better than nothing? I think so.

Cageman
01-08-2011, 08:52 PM
I have bought a lot of training this past few years. I only buy downloads.... The main reason is internet is very expensive where I am and streaming multiple times would create a cumulative cost.

Isn't UK better than that? ;)

Cageman
01-08-2011, 08:57 PM
Yeah, I can certainly understand why many buyers would feel this way...

Y'know sometimes I have to go back and rewatch parts of MY OWN videos to try and remember how I did something, or how I explained it.

Try that on for size.

Haha... that happens to me too. :D Good to know I'm not alone! :)

JonW
01-08-2011, 09:59 PM
Every now and then I get out the old books for reference. It’s usually for some small detail, but I just can’t remember everything.

I doubt I’ll ever buy these videos for the same reasons others have mentioned.
Broad band speed. Time, I like to look at things in part, at different times, go over things again. & I just plainly forget if I’ll not doing the same procedures on a regular enough basis.


But a digital camera recording off a monitor does a good enough job for reference material so I can view it later.

lardbros
01-09-2011, 04:56 AM
Isn't UK better than that? ;)

I was thinking that too. My Internet is very cheap indeed... paying thirty quid a month for 20 meg broadband, hd recordy telly box, unlimited land line calls and an extra telly box upstairs! Maybe it's more if you're out in the sticks somewhere??

Lor
01-09-2011, 12:21 PM
I really want to buy the vids, but somehow, I'm purchasing - what, exactly?

Oh I dunno...great training and knowledge from an artist with 14 years of film, TV and commercial experience in LW? Training that should help you take your work to the next level, if you're not already there? :)

Seriously though, we're some professional artists offering some great training at a great price. The model doesn't work for some people. Sorry about that. We can't be all things to all people, at least not this early on. But we have noted the complaints and objections for future growth.

Nick

Dexter2999
01-09-2011, 01:25 PM
How is purchasing this content and watching it any different that watching "pay-per-view" or paying to attend a training seminar?

I think people are hung up on the concept that they are buying "videos" not buying "training".

3DBob
01-09-2011, 02:26 PM
When one pays to attend a seminar, one expects to have some engagement with the event during the training or afterward in a way that might solve specific problems to that delegate.

Pre packaged training is good if it has a narrative and goal, Start > Middle > End rather than "feature reviews" but these stories might burn a good few hours covering areas you already are familiar with or work towards a goal that is not relevant to your needs. Worth to the user is not calculated on a purchase cost/hours basis in fact it is often well edited neat trick and solutions demonstrated in the shortest timeframe that have the most value. One might be comfortable paying for a few pearls of wisdom amongst the sea of context if they get to have easy access to it. Practical tips and tricks are the things of real value at the high end and what people would like to be able to review in a manner of their choosing, on or off line.

If a group of videos sets out to show you how to create the bread and butter of the FX world as well as the caviar and Cristal then it gets exciting. If you're a CG artist that goes to the movies and still go how the F**K did they do that - and a training series comes along that does a how to with the tools that are familiar to you - that is attractive.

But, CG artist are either unemployed - in which case they can't afford the best training, Freelance / Employed - in which case they might not need a new approach on their current job - but might want to squeeze the learning in between their gigs to add to their toolbox. They may not need to actually be at the tool as they are very familiar with it and so can learn the process off line - only skipping to relevent sections when actually putting something into practice.

Some people learn by making themselves broadly aware of how something is done and hoarding the training / resource until such times as it becomes of economic value to them to learn in detail.

There are so many reasons why people want to have their copy in hand - one of the main one being security - the company might fail - serving the same video to 100 users continuously for 18m might break their bandwith with their hosting company. But if they shipped it once digitally, there would be no cumulative cost for user or provider.

3DBob

zarti
01-09-2011, 02:52 PM
...

There are so many reasons why people want to have their copy in hand - one of the main one being security - the company might fail - serving the same video to 100 users continuously for 18m might break their bandwith with their hosting company. But if they shipped it once digitally, there would be no cumulative cost for user or provider.

3DBob

good point .

Tonttu
01-10-2011, 03:38 AM
But if they shipped it once digitally, there would be no cumulative cost for user or provider.


And it wouldn't consume as much energy = more eco-friendly :agree:

lwaddict
01-11-2011, 08:07 AM
Not buying without a download or DVD...
and a subscription...another subscription...just gives me the heebie jeebies.

Sorry Nick. The tuts sound good but...well, sorry.

Lor
01-11-2011, 09:00 AM
Not buying without a download or DVD...
and a subscription...another subscription...just gives me the heebie jeebies.

Sorry Nick. The tuts sound good but...well, sorry.

Hey LWaddict, no worries. I've done my level best to provide really good content at a really reasonable price for people who don't have corporate expense accounts (ie students). This is the model that lets me keep the pricing there. I'm sorry it doesn't work for you.

I understand the desire to have the thing in your hands. We've had a very positive response from the worldwide LW community in the first week and most people seem to love it. Hopefully we'll have an option for you in the future.

Nick

Larry_g1s
01-11-2011, 12:34 PM
Like I said at the beginning of this thread, it bites that there is no download. But understand why with theft. But with the price being relatively low, I'm going to purchase when I know I've got a chunk of time to go through.

hrgiger
01-11-2011, 12:40 PM
I've gotten through the first video and hope to get through a few more this week. I'm enjoying it and I hope to see more good training materials from CG-masters.

lwaddict
01-11-2011, 02:10 PM
Good morning guys,

We discussed this for several more hours last night. I say several "More" hours because it's been an ongoing discussion through the whole dev process and will, no doubt, continue as we try to provide a great service that works for everybody. This will take some growth, and your input.

Our primary goal is to provide high quality training from pros at a price that's so good you don't have to think about it twice. We think $60 for 2 hrs of training sucks. We think especially that young, starting (starving) artists just can't afford that. We know. We've been there. We believe very strongly that our price point is the crucial balance to providing the community a valuable service without being greedy and without losing our shirts. Without raising prices we can not, at this time, provide a download. Sorry about that. Most especially to those who have terrible connection speeds, because we just don't have any solution for you right now. We feel your pain.

What we can do for those who want to look at their vids 5 years from now is: In the short term (immediately) we are extending all licenses to 18 months. All those of you who have already purchased should see that extension on your "my videos" page. Let us know if we missed you. We had to do them manually, one at a time so it's possible we missed one or two.

Before the end of that 18 month period we will either 1)provide you with a downloadable version to keep before the video is either upgraded or offlined. 2)decide to keep all videos online in perpetuity. Or both. We won't know which way to go until we've been in business for a while.

I know this won't satisfy everybody. I hope you don't write us off. It's my sincere hope that in the future we will be able to provide all the flexibility that you guys have asked for.

As the entertainment industry grows at a dizzying pace, we think there's a real need for great teaching out there across the full spectrum of software. And as battle-tested artists and supervisors, we think we can do it better than anyone else. It's a learning process, though.

Thanks for your support, even if that support comes in the form of well-wishes and suggestions.


Nick


Well...
it's not the perfect solution for my needs,
but it's compromise enough (:yingyang:)that I'll be making my purchase this weekend.

Hopefully you'll get to having DVDs or downloads available someday though.

I generally buy good stuff when I see it available but only actually sit and watch it as needed... too much comes out to often for me to stop working that long, but a DVD arsenal has been the ticket, alongside books, for a long time.

Expiration scares me. :D

Vanth
01-12-2011, 12:50 AM
I purchased the LW10 Advanced Lighting Series and I have to say the first video looks great full screen on my 24" Samsung SyncMaster P2450. Like most people, I feel a download is essential for long term accessibility. Here is my 2cents: Though I prefer a downloaded file for easy accessibility, I can understand the need for the company to be profitable in the short term for evaluation of long term goals and strategy for being a successful business adventure. For consideration, I would throw out the idea lightly mentioned earlier in that you pay for the stream for 18 months or whatever number the company feels is acceptable, then they offer a download for us to have long term. This way we can go back after months or years and have the material. New content added will probably pay for itself in the first 12 months in my opinion, and then letting it out to users after a set period of time would benefit all. In the event that some schlep would actually copy the data and offer it up for mass consumption, the damage would be mitigated by the 12/18 months of paying customers and not hurt profitability in the short or long term.
My personal history of media is that I still have all the books I bought on Lightwave. This includes almost all issues of newtek pro, lightwavin, hdri 3d. I also bought all the Desktop Images dvds that came out near LW6.5 and I am sure I have other things lying around. I occasionally, go back to these resources when I forget how to do something specific. Sooo, I would enjoy having the videos from cg-masters for download at a later date and I would be a very happy camper.
That is my opinion. =)

Vanth
-------------------------------------
Intel Core 2/Quad Q6600, 8GB ram, Windows 7 64-bit, GeForce GTX 470,
**coming soon*** SSD Drive baby!

Lor
01-12-2011, 12:20 PM
Vanth, Thanks a ton for your feedback. We're getting a lot of very nice comments about the quality of the material both in terms of image quality and training quality. We're still open to crits, of course. We can always be better.

lwaddict
Expiration scares me.
That's a reasonable fear. We made a mistake at the start. We're trying to fix it. As of now there is no real expiration.

hrgiger Thanks! glad you like it. Feel free to offer suggestions if you see where we could improve.


Nick

JohnMarchant
01-12-2011, 01:01 PM
Vanth, Thanks a ton for your feedback. We're getting a lot of very nice comments about the quality of the material both in terms of image quality and training quality. We're still open to crits, of course. We can always be better.

lwaddict
That's a reasonable fear. We made a mistake at the start. We're trying to fix it. As of now there is no real expiration.

hrgiger Thanks! glad you like it. Feel free to offer suggestions if you see where we could improve.


Nick

Nick i dont believe you made a mistake. You listened to the comments of your customers and amended your business plan, thats not a mistake its good business practice my friend.

Matelot13
01-13-2011, 09:53 AM
I've been folowing this thread with interest. Now I think I will buy these tutorials, thanks to the latest developments.

@Lor : I understand the noble cause of fighting piracy, but in the end, I believe it's a disservice to your business, and to you. Pirates would never buy your videos anyway, and in the middle of a gazillions competitors, it's in your interest to have them spread as much as possible, even of some of it is not legal. It's like a small part of your profit goes into building referencing. You'll always win if you put out good material and have a thankful customer base. Those are the people you need to focus in.

Lor
01-13-2011, 04:28 PM
Nick i dont believe you made a mistake. You listened to the comments of your customers and amended your business plan, thats not a mistake its good business practice my friend.

:thumbsup: Thanks John.

:beerchug:

Nick

InfoCentral
01-13-2011, 09:38 PM
I too have to say that I only buy physical or downloadable training. No vaporware for me...

IMI
01-13-2011, 10:30 PM
I too have to say that I only buy physical or downloadable training. No vaporware for me...


You don't think that's just a bit extreme there?
It's your prerogative to choose whether you wish to buy it, but calling it "vaporware" is pretty insulting to the creator of it, who happens to be posting a lot in this thread.

While I do see your point, some people you just have to trust. It's not like this is just some guy who made a LW training video series and posted it on fly-by-night video.com, this is Nicholas Boughen here, all time master of LW lighting and writer of awesome books, and longtime LW community member.
He's not trying to push vaporware (God how I hate that word anyway) on anyone, he's trying to make a profit off his experience, and he DOES have a significant reputation to protect.

My only problem with it is that I've become spoiled by the Digital Tutors model , who also don't sell physical copies or downloads anymore, but who offer an enormous amount of training for one flat monthly fee.

I still might buy this when I make the time to download the LW 10 trial though. I went back to my Lightwave v9 Lighting book (by Nicholas Boughen) for a reminder and it's a pretty damn good book, one of the best out of all the LW books I've bought over the years.
Thinking about it, I hope that he writes a book based on this training. Video tutorials are great and I love them, but nothing beats a good book. :)

Marshun
01-13-2011, 10:38 PM
I've been thinking about this particular online approach but I have always liked having the discs to fall back onto. So ... well.......

IMI
01-14-2011, 08:43 AM
Yes, books ARE great, but sometimes videos are FAR better when they SHOW you HOW something is done. The old saying "a picture is worth a thousand words..." some videos (no, not all) tell you FAR more than a "good book." IMO of course. :)

Well yeah, I love videos too. I watch all the Digital Tutors videos I have time for and love every minute of it, being the geeky guy that I am. ;)
But I still love books so I can kick back on the couch and relax and read. But I shouldn't have said "nothing beats a great book"... then again I didn't expect to get corrected. :lol:

Speaking of Digital Tutors, they have *nothing* for Lightwave. Zero, zip, nada, as if it didn't even exist.
They have training for max, Maya, Mudbox, Modo, Softimage, Cinema 4D, Photoshop, Real Flow, Syflex, HDRI Workshop, ZBrush, Composite, Toxic, Nuke RenderMan, Illustrator, Motion Builder, After Effects... and others I can't think of right now, not to mention various videos that mention other apps and even show plugins. They pretty much mention every major 3D program numerously, many of the major 2D programs, and even several freeware apps such as Gimp.
But no mention of LW anywhere whatsoever. Did Newtek piss them off or something, I wonder? ;)
I used to think maybe it's because there's already so much other training out there for LW, but then again, there's a slew of stuff out there for all the other programs as well, particularly for Maya and max and Photoshop.

GandB
01-14-2011, 09:16 AM
As long as there's either no expiration or a lengthy (year or more) period of time I can access them; I'd probably be a customer down the road. I'd just wait till I have the time and need for any specific tutorial. I did buy your Lighting tutorial video from the place that shall not be named, a few years ago...have yet to look at it at all, due to my own ssslllooowww progress with LW and 3D in general; but I'm glad it's there when I'm ready.

I think it's important to support the guys who keep an application like LW in the spotlight.

Nick; have you thought about setting up a "paying customer only" forum to allow users to talk about issues they have with certain tutorials or their focus? If people (for example) went through your tut(s), then later on forgot a few key things...but their tutorial access expired; they could ask those specific questions on your member-only forum boards. That might help alleviate the concern of information lost forever, or having to pay again to get a few gems that have been forgotten. Just a thought.

-Keith

InfoCentral
01-14-2011, 09:18 AM
You don't think that's just a bit extreme there?

What I think is "extreme" is the leap from, because software has a huge piracy problem then video training does too.

IMI
01-14-2011, 09:33 AM
What I think is "extreme" is the leap from, because software has a huge piracy problem then video training does too.

That's not a leap, that's a reality. Everything that's popular has a huge piracy problem. For as long as people have been creating good things that other people want, there's been theft and pirating and copyright infringement.
There's even a huge counterfeit clothing market out there.

However I disagree that taking such measures will prevent anything, but I don't want to dredge up the old "security measures only hurt the legal customers" argument again.

The only way to really prevent pirating is to make things that suck, that nobody wants, but that's probably not a very economically viable solution. ;)

InfoCentral
01-14-2011, 10:43 AM
I have never been approached or even hear of anyone selling counterfeit training. Its a very small audience and not worth the time to address. You know of any million dollar software training titles out there? Lets keep it real.

IMI
01-14-2011, 11:20 AM
I have never been approached or even hear of anyone selling counterfeit training. Its a very small audience and not worth the time to address. You know of any million dollar software training titles out there? Lets keep it real.

Okay, great idea, we'll "keep it real", starting with you.
You should have noticed that was an analogy, not a direct comparison, and that I didn't even so much as imply anyone was selling counterfeit training.

But I have to admire your tenacity in clinging to the point you are exquisitely failing to make. :D

Lor
01-14-2011, 12:07 PM
Nick; have you thought about setting up a "paying customer only" forum to allow users to talk about issues they have with certain tutorials or their focus? If people (for example) went through your tut(s), then later on forgot a few key things...but their tutorial access expired; they could ask those specific questions on your member-only forum boards. That might help alleviate the concern of information lost forever, or having to pay again to get a few gems that have been forgotten. Just a thought.

-Keith

Hi Keith,

A forum is definitely part of the plan once we've paid off all our loans and have a little growth funding. In the mean time, the contact form is the way to go. We'll do our best to see that every contact is properly taken care of.

We've started a Facebook page too. But I think for quick, direct answers, contact(at)cg-masters(dot)com is the best choice.

Nick

InfoCentral
01-14-2011, 12:13 PM
But I have to admire your tenacity in clinging to the point you are exquisitely failing to make. :D

That I only purchase physically attainable content....hummmm

Lor
01-14-2011, 12:19 PM
Well I understand your position, InfoCentral. I hope that in the future we'll either be able to accommodate you in some better way, or our rep will improve to the point that you'll decide it's worth a $20 risk to try it out.

:lwicon::thumbsup:

Nick

dwburman
01-14-2011, 02:06 PM
I've done Google searches for training material and found that some of the links are to pirated versions available for download. Training video piracy definitely exists.

Of course, I don't think that anti-piracy was given by cg-masters as a rationale for their distribution method. It sounds like they like the update-able aspect of providing training online. The tutorials can be altered/updated in response to customer's experiences with the material and with changes in the programs.

Lynda.com is also a subscription training site that covers 100s of software packages, but has no Lightwave videos.

hrgiger
01-14-2011, 04:16 PM
I'm not finding not having a downloadable copy all that obtrustive at the moment. I can go to the site, log on (which like most other sites my browser remembers my info) and I can just jump right to where I left off with no waiting. So it's really not much different then if I had it on my hard drive. And since Nick said there's really no expiration date at this point, it matters not to me either way.

I suppose if you don't always have an internet connection it could be a hassle but I'm just glad that we have some talented people providing some Lightwave training that's affordable and good quality.

GregMalick
01-14-2011, 05:09 PM
Aloha,

I'm not finding the streaming an inconvenience either.
In fact it seems to be a wave of the future.

My bank now charges $5 a month to get paper statements.
Airplane tickets cost more to get them physically delivered to you.
Many people are using offsite storage backups for their important info.
Having something physically in your hands is simply a mindset.

If all my training was on the net, I could walk into any Starbucks and watch anything I owned.

Having said that, here's something I've always dreamed about:
I wish I had a DB of all the videos I own (most reside on a 1TB removable drive) which a special Search Engine could be used that would list links to all the videos (and times) where something like "MagicBevel" or "Modo Fur" could be found. And when I clicked on one of those links, it would start the selected video at the appropriate place.

More to the point regarding cg-master: I could type "Kick Light" or "Back Light" and a list of all the points in the videos would display - with a short description so I could differentiate between them. I can't tell you how many cool modeling or FX techniques I've been impressed with - but I can no longer find. And I sure don't feel like reviewing hours of videos in order to find them. Too much like archeology.

Just some food for thought, Nicholas.

Dexter2999
01-14-2011, 05:18 PM
Having said that, here's something I've always dreamed about:
I wish I had a DB of all the videos I own (most reside on a 1TB removable drive) which a special Search Engine could be used that would list links to all the videos (and times) where something like "MagicBevel" or "Modo Fur" could be found. And when I clicked on one of those links, it would start the selected video at the appropriate place.

Actually, that is the way I wish the LW Help file worked. HTML with imbeded videos linked directly to instant tip's pop ups.

As to the rest of that...a lot of work but could be done. Metadata tags on videos, hosted on a NAS, with a Slingbox...whew. Like I said, lot of work. And that isn't getting to the actual interface by which you filter the info.

zarti
01-14-2011, 06:12 PM
is the 2nd video of houdini ( animation ) stretched back to 1:1 ?


there is no other way to know that but asking or buying it ...

Lor
01-14-2011, 07:36 PM
is the 2nd video of houdini ( animation ) stretched back to 1:1 ?


there is no other way to know that but asking or buying it ...

Hi Zarti. I'm not exactly clear what your question is, but the artist recorded this piece in a 4X3 aspect ratio, so the final image is pillarboxed to 16X9, our standard format. People should be able to see this before buying, if they want, by viewing the preview. Is that what you mean?

All future videos should be in the correct aspect.

Nick

Lor
01-14-2011, 07:39 PM
More to the point regarding cg-master: I could type "Kick Light" or "Back Light" and a list of all the points in the videos would display - with a short description so I could differentiate between them. I can't tell you how many cool modeling or FX techniques I've been impressed with - but I can no longer find. And I sure don't feel like reviewing hours of videos in order to find them. Too much like archeology.

Just some food for thought, Nicholas.

Greg your idea sounds like the ultimate electronic book, with a searchable index that takes you, not to pages but to video segments. That would be pretty swish, I agree.

Right now, I'm just happy someone is in the tropics looking at the training I made in the freezing Canadian winter. ;D

Nick

InfoCentral
01-14-2011, 08:02 PM
Training video piracy definitely exists.

Just goes to show you the power of the Urban Legend as person by person swears they saw it on some undisclosed or forgotten site. This is how Urban Legends get started and perpetuated. As time goes on they become absolute truth till someone actually looks into it. But for many, even though you show them evidence or show them there is no real evidence, they continue to believe because it must be true. It just always has been. People have said... Go figure.

I too decided to investigate this Urban Legend to see if there was a thriving black market in counterfeit 3D Training Videos. I couldn't find one legitimate source that has published any research or investigation into the impact of "training video" piracy. So the question is, where do this conclusions come from? People believe them so much that they base company decisions and models on facts not already present. This is the real power of a good Urban Legend!

And person by person will step forward and give personal testimony on how they personally know this to be truth. This is the perpetuation of an Urban Legend. I always like the one about waking up in your motel room with one of your kidneys missing. I tell people to this day there is no fact to this and they refuse to disbelieve it. Some I have talked with even say then know someone who had it happen to them. Ah, and the story lives on....

IMI
01-14-2011, 09:21 PM
InfoCentral, you gotta be kidding, right?
I'm trying to reply, but I can't think of where to start, plus it's seriously hard to concentrate when I'm laughing so hard. :D
Megalodon said it all already anyway.

Is this what "keeping it real" means in your world? :lol:

InfoCentral
01-14-2011, 10:15 PM
JI too decided to investigate this Urban Legend to see if there was a thriving black market in counterfeit 3D Training Videos. I couldn't find one legitimate source that has published any research or investigation into the impact of "training video" piracy.

You boys keep the fear and the Urban Legends perpetuated. At least we have some idea now who is downloading them...simply amazing. I hope you don't think your having an impact on the industry....do you?

IMI
01-14-2011, 11:02 PM
You boys keep the fear and the Urban Legends perpetuated. At least we have some idea now who is downloading them...simply amazing. I hope you don't think your having an impact on the industry....do you?

I just love it how people on internet forums act sometimes.
It never ceases to amaze me (actually "amuse" is a better word :D) how some people will just continue on even at the expense of looking totally ridiculous.
Some people will never admit they're wrong, and oddly enough instead will choose the path that just makes them look dumber and dumber as the thread wears on.

InfoCentral, I'd quit now if I were you. Well actually, I would never get myself into such a situation to begin with. :D
What "fear"? What's this supposed urban legend?
Better yet, how can anybody be downloading something that doesn't exist? :ohmy:

InfoCentral
01-14-2011, 11:20 PM
I too decided to investigate this Urban Legend to see if there was a thriving black market in counterfeit 3D Training Videos. I couldn't find one legitimate source that has published any research or investigation into the impact of "training video" piracy.

Learn to read and reason. This is the third time I post this. Your personal appeals mean nothing. You continue to prove nothing. You have no statistics and you have no idea if the sites actually are able to deliver the goods or if anyone is downloading even if they have them. That is other than yourselves. Again, I see no valid data that supports a thriving black market in counterfeit 3D Training Videos or piracy impacting this sector of the market. That is not to say there is none but it is a great leap to say there is any impact on this sector of the market. I'd be happy to look over the figures your using to fuel this Urban Legend?

IMI
01-14-2011, 11:27 PM
Learn to read and reason. This is the third time I post this... blah blah blah...


Whatever man, I've lost interest in this discussion. I learned a long time ago not to argue for too long with people who will say anything in a desperate attempt to save their idiotic argument.

Later dude, have a nice night! :D

zarti
01-15-2011, 05:30 AM
Hi Zarti. I'm not exactly clear what your question is, but the artist recorded this piece in a 4X3 aspect ratio, so the final image is pillarboxed to 16X9, our standard format. People should be able to see this before buying, if they want, by viewing the preview. Is that what you mean?

All future videos should be in the correct aspect.

Nick

Hi Nick ,

i was referring to both ; the preview and the screenshot posted on post #113 here ...

http://newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=91608&d=1294438302

i just wanted to confirm if the video-tutorial itself appears the same ... before buying . just that .



p.s.: as some have already mentioned , i think it wd more more 'comfortable' to discuss these things inside cg-masters' own forum .

InfoCentral
01-15-2011, 09:06 AM
Just the fact that I FOUND MANY sites that have pirated training AND... THE FACT that I could download said training... indicates that there are those "out there" who think that this stuff is being downloaded.)

Lets not forget about UFO's too because you know there "out there." And what about Alien Abduction because you know that is still going on. I think books have been written about people who experienced that!

Any know of any body who spontaneously combusted?

RudySchneider
01-15-2011, 09:51 AM
Lets not forget about UFO's too because you know there "out there." And what about Alien Abduction because you know that is still going on. I think books have been written about people who experienced that!

Any know of any body who spontaneously combusted?

Oh, now there's an obvious (and obviously irrefutable) relevant parallel!

InfoCentral
01-15-2011, 10:30 AM
Unfortunately, there probably exists more evidence pointing to those things being true then there is that there exists a thriving black market in counterfeit 3D training videos that is in fact impacting this sector of the market.

We have seen the data that has been presented and to say it is inconclusive would be to give it greatly more credit than it deserves. But for the ignorant masses this may be all the evidence they need to make the leap to the conclusion that one exists. For me this is proof of it being a Urban Legend. With this I leave, I learned early on that reason has no place in mass hysteria.

IMI
01-15-2011, 10:37 AM
With this I leave, I learned early on that reason has no place in mass hysteria.

Yeah, you're much too smart to be hanging around here with all of us conspiracy theorists and nutjobs.
It could be bad for your reputation if people saw you bothering to argue with us crazies. :lol:

Cageman
01-15-2011, 11:17 AM
Then you haven't REALLY checked online. I've seen DOZENS (or perhaps hundreds) of sites that sell (along with pirated 3D and other software) illegal training as well.

I've found plenty of pirated training online, but not a single one of them were selling... just links to torrentsites and whatnot, so I could download for free.

Maybe this discussion needs to be divided in two:

1) Online companies/sites that sell Training that can be proved to be pirated.
2) Online companies/sites that provide links to torrents, or hosting content that can be proved to be pirated, but not selling anything.

With the increased use and popularity regarding torrents (not to mention ease of use and access), fewer and fewer people will benefit from trying to sell pirated things that most people today can download for free and by themselves (yes, still pirated stuff, but there is no middle hand taking money for it).

Dexter2999
01-15-2011, 11:42 AM
I've found plenty of pirated training online, but not a single one of them were selling... just links to torrentsites and whatnot, so I could download for free.

Maybe this discussion needs to be divided in two:

1) Online companies/sites that sell Training that can be proved to be pirated.
2) Online companies/sites that provide links to torrents, or hosting content that can be proved to be pirated, but not selling anything.

With the increased use and popularity regarding torrents (not to mention ease of use and access), fewer and fewer people will benefit from trying to sell pirated things that most people today can download for free and by themselves (yes, still pirated stuff, but there is no middle hand taking money for it).

Either flavor translates to lost sales to the content creator. I remember thinking how sad it was that Desktop Images has to put an anti piracy statement on their videos.

How secure is the DRM on the iTunes stuff? Could selling through the iTunes store provide a more secure method of distribution with at least a piracy deterrent (if not pirate "proof")?

IMI
01-15-2011, 12:03 PM
Maybe this discussion needs to be divided in two:

1) Online companies/sites that sell Training that can be proved to be pirated.
2) Online companies/sites that provide links to torrents, or hosting content that can be proved to be pirated, but not selling anything.


Well that would make for an interesting discussion in and of itself, but that's not really the point here.
Somehow the dude up above went off on this counterfeit videos-for-sale tangent when that's not even what we were talking about. I used the word "counterfeit" in an analogy he failed to grok and he just kind of took it from there. ;)

Lor
01-15-2011, 09:25 PM
I used the word "counterfeit" in an analogy he failed to grok and he just kind of took it from there. ;)

Wow. I wonder how many here know the origin of the word "grok" ;)

Nick

GregMalick
01-16-2011, 01:09 AM
Wow. I wonder how many here know the origin of the word "grok" ;)

Nick

Ages ago, I thought Robert A. Heinlein was the greatest.
Of course I thought the same of Frank Herbert, Ayn Rand and Hermann Hesse. Ah, my college days... :)

And don't complain about cold winters. You could always visit a friend in Hawaii to thaw out.

IMI
01-16-2011, 03:15 AM
Wow. I wonder how many here know the origin of the word "grok" ;)

Nick

One of the first "real" books I ever read as a kid. :)

Lor
01-16-2011, 10:24 AM
One of the first "real" books I ever read as a kid. :)

The first "real" book my Mum gave me when I was about 10 years old was Starman Jones. That was the beginning of a SF fandom of massive proportion. :)

Oh....and LightWave....... :D

Nick

IMI
01-16-2011, 01:28 PM
If it hadn't been for my dad introducing Heinlein and Clarke and Larry Niven to me at a young age, I might never have become the sci-fi fan I am today. I had even written a few of my own sci-fi books and many short stories by the time I was 15.
Unfortunately they all sucked. :D

To get back on topic though, your training for LW 10 looks like a good enough deal the more I look at it. When I get the time to try out LW 10 I'll probably sign up for the intro pack at least. Can't ever have too much LW training, after all, and lighting is one of those things that can never be taught enough, IMO.

Boo!
01-26-2011, 04:23 AM
...hey there.
...been using the lighting training for LW9.6 and its been a huge help!...
...
...just wanted to know if the training for Texturing for LW10 can be used for LW9.6?. thanks...
...:thumbsup:

hrgiger
01-26-2011, 04:31 AM
...hey there.
...been using the lighting training for LW9.6 and its been a huge help!...
...
...just wanted to know if the training for Texturing for LW10 can be used for LW9.6?. thanks...
...:thumbsup:

I've only been through the first few videos and I suppose you could use it for 9.6 but you'll be missing out on the preview rendering with VPR which he uses a lot of in the videos. If you have Fprime you can probably use that instead

Boo!
01-26-2011, 04:48 AM
...ahhhhh, thanks dude!...
...
...:thumbsup:

Lor
01-26-2011, 07:24 AM
hrgiger is right, the main difference is the VPR, which doesn't really change how to light or texture, mainly how quickly you get your feedback. FPrime would be the best choice there if you wanted to follow along with the tutorial using 9.6.

Everything in terms of how to go about creating the final textures and lighting is applicable to Lw 9.6.

Nick

Boo!
01-26-2011, 10:04 AM
...thanks Lor!...
...im goin to check them out later today. its one of the things that ive never wrapped my head around in Lightwave. ive been using Modo for a little while and have only just returned to see what 9.6 and now 10 can offer.
...
...these vids are a great help!...

Lor
01-26-2011, 01:35 PM
...
...these vids are a great help!...

Glad to hear that. Don't forget to let me know if you think we've missed anything.

Nick

Lor
01-30-2011, 01:50 PM
At the request of several of you guys, we've started a new project-based series covering a shot from sketch to final composite. First Phase: modeling.

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1106599#post1106599

Or here's a direct link http://cg-masters.com/videos/discipline/build

Nick

Lor
02-12-2011, 03:14 PM
New from CG-Masters.com - The Rocketship Project: Animation and Particles
In this segment of The Rocketship Project, we animate the ship for startup and liftoff. We also use dynamics hypervoxels to create a rocket plume. 1.5 hrs. $15.

If you're one of the artists following along with the project, you can purchase this segment now to keep following along. If not, you can wait for the package price when the whole series is complete.

http://cg-masters.com/videos/discipline/build

Lor
04-04-2011, 11:45 AM
Hey LightWavers!

Response to the LightWave 10 Advanced Lighting Series has been truly amazing. This is by far the number 1 title. Thanks so much for all the great feedback, kind words and encouragement from across the globe. We worked hard to make a strong start and your feedback tells us we're on the right track.

I wanted everyone else to know that the Introductory price on this title will be ending on April 30th. So if you're still interested in great lighting training at a great price, you have 26 days left to act.

lor

archijam
04-04-2011, 01:02 PM
Great to hear :thumbsup: !

Eagle66
04-05-2011, 03:14 PM
Don't forget to let me know if you think we've missed anything.

LW 10 / VFX Master Class please next time .... :thumbsup:

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1126731#post1126731

Thanks!

Cageman
04-06-2011, 03:05 PM
LOR,

Here is a neat thing...

Whenever you have forgotten to turn an object into SubPatches in Modeler, you can go to the Modeler Tools Tab in Layout and hit G-Toggle Subpatch. I'm not sure if this menu entry is there with vanilla LW install, but I allways base my menus on Production Style preset, and if you apply that preset, this toggle is avaliable.

Very handy stuff, since it allows you to not have to open up Modeler.

:)

Lor
04-06-2011, 06:56 PM
Hey, that is pretty swish. Thanks Cageman.

lor

cgisoul
04-09-2011, 03:06 PM
Hi Lor,

I was just about to buy the entire series lighting, until I came to the forum to search for some feedbacks/thoughts. I was quite surprised to read that you can't download the videos as I think the price is good.

However, what's stopping me is the "no-download videos" lack of option and I hope you will re-consider the possibility to have it downloadable (hopefully soon and before April 30). Until then, sadly I have to say I'm sorry but I have to skip this tutorial(s).

I'm the old kind who likes to have it in my computer / portable HD and play it when I want it, when I need it, and at anywhere I am, without having to concern also ever the expire date of my account with cg-masters or send a request email for an extension.

Like zarti has mentioned already, tutorials from long long time ago are still being downloaded nowadays.

Hope you'll give us this option. If you do have it or will have it, I am more than happy to purchase it right away.

Would you and your partners consider to give this option for those who buys the entire lighting series? Maybe that could be an option?
Just let me know and I'll fire up my credit card right away.

Thank you.

Lor
04-09-2011, 05:08 PM
CGISoul and Megalodon, your position is understood. We are especially regretful about those customers who do not yet have sufficient bandwidth to support the service. Unfortunately our business model doesn't support downloads. Not being downloadable is one thing that makes the price good in the first place. We'd also lose some of the cool features like live updates. I wonder how many of our current customers have noticed when we've made improvements, tweaks and additions to our material. due to customer feedback and our own thoughts that this or that could be a little better. Probably none, but they've benefitted nonetheless.

As to the expiry concern: before the 180 day expiry occurs, cg-masters.com will make a decision to either provide the material for a 1-time download, or to keep it available online permanently. So either way, the material will be permanently available, at least until it's completely obsolete. And if we do ever take material offline due to obsolescence, we'll probably either make it downloadable as a .zip or post it to Youtube, or some such. We definitely dont' want to leave people without it, if it's considered still valuable.

Apologies that our philosophy doesn't mesh with yours. I hope that we'll come together some time in the future. We believe that by providing really excellent tutorials, it will be enough to change the minds of most people who are accustomed to holding the DVD in their hand, or keeping the download on a drive.

lor

Cageman
04-09-2011, 05:36 PM
As to the expiry concern: before the 180 day expiry occurs

Hmm.. I have 543 days until it expires. Maybe because I bought the $85 deal for 7 lighting/texturing tutorials? (great deal btw... lots of goods for the money!!!). :)

In any case... I think the online tutorials works great on the technical side of things and the benefit is that I don't have to worry about backing it up, and I can login from any computer in the world that has an internet connection to continue watch the videos.

Seriously... the only "excuses" to not support a service like CG-Masters should be either that the person is still on a modem and pay / minute online, or those that have to pay extra when exceeding a certain download limit.

All other excuses based on a "principle" is kind of redicilous based on the fact that the tutorials are of very high quality both regarding the content as well as the tutors themselves.

Lor
04-09-2011, 07:15 PM
Cageman, the license was originally 6 months. Shortly after we launched, we switched the 180 day license to an 18 month license. This was to give us time to decide on a permanent solution, so yeah, everybody has a minimum 1.5 years to view, at the end of which we'll have an alternate solution.

Also, I totally get the desire to have the DVDs on your shelf. Some people, if they pay money, want to have somethng in their hands to show for it. I'm sorry that our service doesn't work for some folks.

We think of it this way: I you take a weekend seminar at a college or university, you don't get to take it home with you, you pay your $325, you go to the class and you take notes. The End. With our class, you get to go back and watch them as many times as you want.

Anyways I always hope that word will get around that our tutorials are so awesome that sooner or later everyone will have a look. :thumbsup:

One can always hope. :)

lor

cgisoul
04-09-2011, 11:59 PM
All other excuses based on a "principle" is kind of redicilous based on the fact that the tutorials are of very high quality both regarding the content as well as the tutors themselves.

huh? I have to disagree here. It's not about the principle being ridiculous or being stubburn. Never doubted the quality of the content from cg-masters even just by watching the previews. I'm sure would have learnt much more than what I know now.
I'm running a 10 MB DSL connection, not the fastest connection in the world, but fast enough for everything I need. Still, it's more of a personal preference than anything to do with "principle" here.


Apologies that our philosophy doesn't mesh with yours. I hope that we'll come together some time in the future. We believe that by providing really excellent tutorials, it will be enough to change the minds of most people who are accustomed to holding the DVD in their hand, or keeping the download on a drive. lor

It's all good and I respect that. Hopefully one day things will change.

Just a though, what will you do if or when someone pirates it and post it online? e.g. Digital Tutors at first had the DVDs, then they drop the whole business concept and moved entirely online. They then realized even that, their content were being pirated and distributed freely online.
As more and more users requested, they went back and added the Vault option: http://www.digitaltutors.com/11/onthego.php#vault
"Download Videos and Learn Offline with Vault Access the world's largest CG training library offline with Digital-Tutors Vault, a first-of-its-kind educational platform that gives you the ability to download videos and learn on-the-go anytime, anywhere."

So, I'm just wondering what IF that happens, because eventually, someone will just screen capture the whole thing and distribute it.
Let's hope not obviously.

Cageman
04-10-2011, 01:47 AM
YOU... may call it "principle" whereas *I* call it convenience. I don't want to HAVE to wait to view the material. I also like to go through my CD's/DVD's on my shelves (that has dozens and dozens of tutorials) when I need to review something. I am VERY sure that there are those here who "recall viewing a tutorial but are not quite sure where they saw it." And these people go through their tutorials ON THEIR SHELVES and discover "ah Ha... that's where I saw it." having to try to remember it as an online tutorial... no way. All of the Kurv and 3D Liberty tutorials that I downloaded are burned to DVD and labeled so that I can go to that shelf and find what I need - I don't have to TRY to remember where my tutorials are.

You may be blessed with a perfect memory, but I am not. So... it is not an EXCUSE. You don't LIKE me reason... FINE. But you don't know what you're talking about since "excuse" has nothing to do with it.

All the titles I've bought when I am logged in at CG-Masters are there right in front of me. I click on a tute, and 2 seconds later I have the video playing. I can jump back and forth in a video with ease. All the different sections within a specific tutorial is listed beneath the timeline so navigation and finding a specific part within a video is very easy. Actually, it is even more convinient than having a bunch of videofiles on disk since such videofiles are seldom or never indexed right there infront of your eyes.

:)

Cageman
04-10-2011, 01:57 AM
Okay... now why don't you go back and actually READ what I wrote.

Not sure what you are refering to here. You are talking about finding out where you might have seen something and I'm telling you that the indexation mode over at CG-masters are far superior to any type of analogue bookshelf type of indexation.

Dexter2999
04-10-2011, 03:04 AM
Streaming tutorials aren't for everyone just like online help files aren't. For some it may be connection speed issues. For people like me it can be a corporate IT directive that forbids streaming media over the company network.

If connections aren't an issue then this is a great product. But if it is an issue then it's no good. Oh well, same issue could be said for speaking English. If you speak English they are great. No English? Guess you aren't going to be buying these.

You can't please everyone all the time.

cgisoul
04-10-2011, 04:51 AM
I think it all comes down to personal preferences. For example, instead of waiting and relying on the internet connection, if i have the downloaded version, I could just simply put the files in the "Lighting" folder. It is also convinience in playing the videos on the fly and move the slider forward and backward without having to wait for the streaming to load the content. There's no right or wrong here, again, just personal preference and convinience as it is.

I understand and respect Lor's business concerns, however if the concern is mainly that cgmasters content will be pirated, then is pointless imo and in return, ultimately losing legit customers. Unfortunately nothing is safe from being pirated.

My point is simple, since nothing is safe from being pirated, why not have the download version. Because if we think about it, it takes only one person to screen capture and spread it out.

Lor
04-10-2011, 10:23 AM
Digital Tutors at first had the DVDs, then they drop the whole business concept and moved entirely online. They then realized even that, their content were being pirated and distributed freely online.
As more and more users requested, they went back and added the Vault option: http://www.digitaltutors.com/11/onthego.php#vault
"Download Videos and Learn Offline with Vault Access the world's largest CG training library offline with Digital-Tutors Vault, a first-of-its-kind educational platform that gives you the ability to download videos and learn on-the-go anytime, anywhere."


The debate about anit-piracy vs. customer service is the one we've spent the most time on. It's a very difficult balance. On one hand, you don't wish to inconvenience your many legitimate customers. On the other hand, you don't want to make it too easy for pirates. It's a balance we're keeping a close eye on and we'll make whatever changes we can to improve the balance in favour of legitimate customers if we can do that without giving away our hard work to the pirates. Anti-piracy is not the only factor though. There are many advantages to our model that give us the option to provide better customer service and keep prices at a student rate. So on balance, we think we are serving the vast majority of our customers in a way that is cost-effective for them, and convenient, and that is the direct feedback we've received so far. Some people prefer a DVD. That's cool. But you won't find any DVDs with LightWave lighting training as good as ours. There, did that sound like a gauntlet falling? ;D

lor

cgisoul
04-10-2011, 10:51 AM
Hi Lor,

Absolutely and I understand the logic behind to keep at low cost so everyone can access to the content. Fair enough.
One last try, what about adding my name and information as a water mark onto the video? Besides already proven that I am a legit customer, I also want you to be reasured a million times that your content won't be shared with anyone. Unless if I was insane enough to share a video with my name on it.
If that costs an extra, I'm willing to pay for it, as long it's not an extravaganza extra.
That's how bad I want your tutorials. Well, your previews are to be blame lol, they are very well done indeed.
That's my final try I promise. Think about it and let me know.

Eagle66
04-10-2011, 11:19 AM
The license model is discuss enough at the last 14 pages - it is as it is :hey: I suggest to enable Buffering (like youtube) for Low Bandwith - this would be very useful.

Its IMHO more useful to discuss about the content of the next Training :)

I multiple suggest LW 10 / VFX Master Class like FXPHD real Studioproduction project based courses - i would subscribe FXPHD but they only have Maya Training.

So let me know if others also prefer Visual Effects Master Classes LW/Fusion with focus on real (!) filmbased CG project stuff not the basics - the Devil is the Detail.....

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthr...31#post1126731

Thanks!

Cageman
04-10-2011, 11:57 AM
Why is this so difficult to grasp?

For online tutorials, you can get an emty DVD-case, add a label to it and put it in the shelf. Instead of a disc you have a peice of paper with the URL.

Lor
04-11-2011, 12:27 PM
Hi Lor,

Absolutely and I understand the logic behind to keep at low cost so everyone can access to the content. Fair enough.
One last try, what about adding my name and information as a water mark onto the video? Besides already proven that I am a legit customer, I also want you to be reasured a million times that your content won't be shared with anyone. Unless if I was insane enough to share a video with my name on it.
If that costs an extra, I'm willing to pay for it, as long it's not an extravaganza extra.
That's how bad I want your tutorials. Well, your previews are to be blame lol, they are very well done indeed.
That's my final try I promise. Think about it and let me know.

Thanks cgisoul for the nice comments. I don't think your honesty is at question here. But while you may be willing to pay extra to have the tutorials downloaded to your system, the vast majority of our users like both the delivery system and the low pricing that comes along with it. We definitely won't rule out having some sort of "vault" arrangement in the future. We want to serve everyone if we can, but unfortunately it's just not in the cards at present. Sorry about that.

lor

cgisoul
04-11-2011, 12:42 PM
It's all good Lor and thank you for taking the time to explain and helping in someway. I respect your business approach and I hope in the future, we will come to a common point. One thing, don't hesitate to let me know once you and your partners have decided to make a vault or have the download-able version(S).
Once again, thank you Lor.

Lor
04-23-2011, 09:03 AM
Hey folks, one week left on the intro pricing for the Advanced Lighting Series.

http://cg-masters.com/videos/discipline/texture

lor

Pixelight
04-24-2011, 12:19 PM
The tutorial looks great and I will definitely be getting it once I get a bit more experience in LW.

But although I respect the decision of the author to not offer a download option, I seriously fail to see how offering streaming only is any safer again't piracy or allows the content to be offered for a lower price.

It seems to me streaming actually costs more as it will take more bandwidth from the publisher's site than a once per costumer download. So how can streaming be cheaper?

How is streaming safer against piracy? If the author is worried somebody who purchases the video would share it online, offering it streaming only can't prevent that. If you can see it and hear it in your computer you can easily record it and the author would both never know and not be able to do anything about it. And please give me a break about the EULA thing. Since when pirates give a damn about that? And also EULA is not valid in all countries of the world. It's as good as nothing against piracy.
Streaming only is no way to avoid somebody who wants to share the video online from doing so. I think it only angers legitimate customers who have bad internet connections and maybe even prompt them to look for alternative sources for the same tutorial.

Now I do not agree with online sharing and do not do it and never understood why people would pay money for something just to share it for free with others and hurt the producers of the content. Neither am I arguing against not having a download version. This is the author's decision.
I'm just questioning the misguided concept that offering streaming only makes it any harder to get your hands on the video than downloading it. And questioning whether streaming only will stop somebody who wants to have the video from having it and that such a useless "security" measure is worth the potential "trouble" it gives to customers who support the author and the potential lost of a sale it may induce.

Lor
04-24-2011, 02:04 PM
Hi there Pixelight. These are all totally valid questions, and they were all a part of lengthy debate and research on our part while we were developing the site. We believe we have achieved, while perhaps not a perfect balance yet, one that serves the vast majority of our customer base. The feedback we have received since launching in January has also borne out our initial presumptions, for the most part. Where it hasn't, we've made adjustments to better serve the majority. But we are always listening to feedback like this, and we are always prepared to make adjustments to our model, if we think it will better serve the majority of our clients.

OnlineRender
04-24-2011, 02:31 PM
But we are always listening to feedback like this, and we are always prepared to make adjustments to our model, if we think it will better serve the majority of our clients.

here is some I only noticed because I have the same problem :)


These are trivial things . . . .

Chrome , "who we are " throws the css a little its about 10-20px out , jump between "who we are " & "who are you " but you probably already know this , generally caused by the scroll bar ,maybe use js. scroll up down would be more efficient and cleaner

your search function is backwards , pain in the bum removing all the ticks , but again you probably all ready know this .

buy the way for reference I have a cheek my css is all over the shot atm :rock: ,

as for the training content , it ROCKS ....

keep going . . .

Lor
04-24-2011, 03:35 PM
OnlineRender.

We're working on the search issue now. I'll have the dev team look into the Chrome issues. Thanks for taking the time to give this feedback.

lor

goakes
04-24-2011, 05:04 PM
I must agree the training is excellent, to quote "it ROCKS ...."
Lots of very useful info at a great price.
Thanks Lor.

ps: Still looking for the (House) asset.

Lor
04-24-2011, 07:11 PM
Thanks Gary,

The house has been reconstructed and is up now.

lor

Cageman
04-24-2011, 07:36 PM
Lor,

Check your PM...

Lor
04-25-2011, 09:36 AM
He's fine, but under seige from the socialists.

(that's a joke for Canadians) :twak:

Lito
04-26-2011, 09:55 AM
Saw a link to this thread from another and am considering buying, but I didn't read this whole thread so let me just get this straight:

This tutorial set is online streaming only with an expire date or no expire date? I am getting confused because in an earlier post it said 180 days then another said 1.5 years then on the site faq it says it is always going to be available. So which one is correct?

I am on the fence cause I'd rather have a downloadable version. Just like others here have stated I dislike not having something I can reference at a later date on my HD or video collection when I finally need it. Even if I want a downloadable version, I don't totally dislike streaming, but the idea of an expire date is just something I find unacceptable.

Lor
04-26-2011, 11:31 AM
Hi Lito,

When we originally launched, we had an expiry date of 6 months. Just like Pay Per View or DVD rental, we were thinking people would pay to view for a certain time, which should be plenty of time to get everything out of the video. Then if they wanted to view it again a year or two from now, they'd rent it again. We quickly learned that this didn't work for most people, so to give us time to figure out a proper solution, we changed everybody's expiry to 18 months. Not that we planned to expire everyone in 18 months, we just needed a little time to plan. We have now removed the expiry, so there is none. There is the possibility that a title will eventually become obsolete and need to go offline, but if that happens, we promise to make it publicly available so that users always have access if they wish.

So the short answer is...there is no expiry. It is gone. kaput. Removed. It is no more. It is an ex-expiry.

lor

SBowie
04-26-2011, 12:02 PM
So the short answer is...there is no expiry. It is gone. kaput. Removed. It is no more. It is an ex-expiry.
http://affordablehousinginstitute.org/blogs/us/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/imagespython-dead-parrot-small.jpg

Its rung down the curtain and joined the bleeding choir invisible! This is an ex-parrot!

Lor
04-26-2011, 12:43 PM
“It’s rung down the curtain and joined the bleeding choir invisible! This — is an ex-parrot!”

Precisely. Well done, Steve. :thumbsup:

Pixelight
04-27-2011, 02:24 PM
Hi there Pixelight. These are all totally valid questions, and they were all a part of lengthy debate and research on our part while we were developing the site. We believe we have achieved, while perhaps not a perfect balance yet, one that serves the vast majority of our customer base. The feedback we have received since launching in January has also borne out our initial presumptions, for the most part. Where it hasn't, we've made adjustments to better serve the majority. But we are always listening to feedback like this, and we are always prepared to make adjustments to our model, if we think it will better serve the majority of our clients.

Well, the balance which serves the majority of your customer base has exactly nothing to do with my point. Maybe I wasn't clear enough, or maybe I was and you understood it and just chose to go around it. But here it is again:

What holds anybody who buys the tutorial from recording it?

Answer: Nothing!

You will never even know about it.

How not offering a downloadable version helps here?


P.S. I don't care either way and am fine with streaming only. It just makes zero sense to justify it as a security measure when it's not safer at all, whatsoever. That's all.

Lor
04-27-2011, 03:21 PM
Hi Pixelight.

Sorry if my answer wasn't clear enough. We discussed in detail the pros and cons of streaming vs. download. We came to the conclusion that we could serve the majority of our customers best by delivering the way we are delivering now.

Am I going to give out specifics of our business model? No, of course not. But we are doing our best to serve as many customers as possible with the best material we can create and at the best price we can offer. We're seriously committed to making a training purchase a no-brainer.

Will we be everything to everyone? Obviously not. But we'll be as much as we can to as many people as possible.

It's fine if you choose to disagree with our conclusions. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinions, but we believe we did what was best for our customers and for us. In time, that may change, but for now the overwhelming response from our customers is that they are extremely happy with our delivery.

lor

Pixelight
04-27-2011, 03:27 PM
Hi Pixelight.

Sorry if my answer wasn't clear enough. We discussed in detail the pros and cons of streaming vs. download. We came to the conclusion that we could serve the majority of our customers best by delivering the way we are delivering now.

Am I going to give out specifics of our business model? No, of course not. But we are doing our best to serve as many customers as possible with the best material we can create and at the best price we can offer. We're seriously committed to making a training purchase a no-brainer.

Will we be everything to everyone? Obviously not. But we'll be as much as we can to as many people as possible.

It's fine if you choose to disagree with our conclusions. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinions, but we believe we did what was best for our customers and for us. In time, that may change, but for now the overwhelming response from our customers is that they are extremely happy with our delivery.

lor

Lor, you are still missing the point. But I digress.



P.S. Not asking you to give out any specifics of your business model.

lardbros
04-28-2011, 05:31 AM
Well... a bloomin' good move! And what better way to announce than with a Python sketch :D

I'll look at buying for certain now... your intro videos were all very tempting!

Lor
04-28-2011, 08:57 AM
:) glad you like 'em. Intro pricing on the Advanced Lighting Series ends on April 30 BTW.

www.cg-masters.com

lor

Lor
04-29-2011, 10:38 AM
Hey there 'wavers. Introductory pricing on our top-selling title "LightWave 10 Advanced Lighting Series" ends at midnight tomorrow. Don't miss out!

http://cg-masters.com/videos/software/3

lor

wesleycorgi
04-29-2011, 02:17 PM
These tutes have been great thus far. I was in the camp of "gotta download it," but this has proven to be a non-factor since I can access via any browser any time (I have super fast Internet at work and my slow access at home seems to be doing okay). I would highly recommend for anyone who is learning LW lighting, as well as texturing.

Lor
04-29-2011, 09:54 PM
These tutes have been great thus far. I was in the camp of "gotta download it," but this has proven to be a non-factor since I can access via any browser any time (I have super fast Internet at work and my slow access at home seems to be doing okay). I would highly recommend for anyone who is learning LW lighting, as well as texturing.

Thanks a ton for the kind words, wesleycorgi!:thumbsup:

lor

animotion
05-05-2011, 09:20 AM
Hi Nick.

I just stumbled onto this thread and am considering the LightWave 10 Advanced Lighting Series. My money finger is very close to the pay button. I understand your stance on the model you chose. I hope that you find a way to allow downloading some day soon, I am one that has stacks of training DVDs and too many is not enough. I also wish to support people like you that want to train and promote LW.

Good luck and I'm looking forward to viewing your material.

Lor
05-05-2011, 09:48 AM
Hi Animotion, thanks a lot!

Many of our users are pretty happy that they don't have to haul stacks of DVDs back and forth from work with them. With our service, you get access wherever you have hi-speed internet access. Maybe that helps make up for not having a hard copy. :)

Nick

animotion
05-06-2011, 03:58 AM
Nice Job!. Lots of good info. I'm glad I decided to purchase the set.

Lor
05-06-2011, 09:52 AM
Nice Job!. Lots of good info. I'm glad I decided to purchase the set.

:thumbsup::jam:

lor

GregMalick
05-11-2011, 11:44 AM
Hi Animotion, thanks a lot!

Many of our users are pretty happy that they don't have to haul stacks of DVDs back and forth from work with them. With our service, you get access wherever you have hi-speed internet access. Maybe that helps make up for not having a hard copy. :)

Nick

I have watched the entire Lighting Series and it is excellent.
And not needing to store GB of training at home is actually great.

But I hope that if (for some terrible unknown reason) you are unable to continue the streaming service, you will email your customers and make downloads available for a reasonable period of time.

Lor
05-11-2011, 09:58 PM
Hey, thanks alot Greg! Glad you like the tutes.

Well I, for one, have no intention of shutting down cg-masters. We've only just started and we plan to continue growing until we essentially purchase microsoft with pocket change. Then we'll buy Autodesk and rename everything LightWave. ;) So don't worry. If that WERE to ever happen (it won't), of course we would make sure all our customers would have continuous access to the material. But it's not going to happen. :)

lor

Eagle66
05-12-2011, 10:47 AM
Whats going on next?

a) Rocketship Composting Part and Bundle Package?
b) My asked (http://www.fxguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/0005-04_vid-lin_12_1920x1080.00048.jpg) advanced realistic Studio Production (http://www.fxguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/0005-05_vid-lin_07_1920x1080.00042.jpg) related LW VFX Master Class Project (http://vimeo.com/21721165)?

:thumbsup:

Lor
05-12-2011, 10:38 PM
Whats going on next?

a) Rocketship Composting Part and Bundle Package?
b) My asked (http://www.fxguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/0005-04_vid-lin_12_1920x1080.00048.jpg) advanced realistic Studio Production (http://www.fxguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/0005-05_vid-lin_07_1920x1080.00042.jpg) related LW VFX Master Class Project (http://vimeo.com/21721165)?

:thumbsup:

Hey Eagle66,

Rocketship Rendering and Compositing sections are nearly complete and we'll be releasing that soon, as well as the full Rocketship Project package for an awesome package price. We are also looking at the "real project" type of tutorial, but it is incredibly difficult to get studio permission to use their properties in tutorials, so we'll have to see how that goes.

lor

Eagle66
05-13-2011, 11:15 AM
Rocketship Rendering and Compositing sections are nearly complete and we'll be releasing that soon, as well as the full Rocketship Project package for an awesome package price.

Fine :)


We are also looking at the "real project" type of tutorial, but it is incredibly difficult to get studio permission to use their properties in tutorials, so we'll have to see how that goes.


What studio permission? No one expect a 50 Day 10 Person shot - the simple LW workflow with focus to get 100 percent realism. A small HD Canon 7D or RED shot like examples down, quick tracking, how to organize the Project, Lens distortion, the CG-Scene for possible changes with all needed Lights and shadows, important things for realism texturing, organize exrTrader render outputs, dust, atmospehre, environments, etc. and compositing all together (tracking data, renderpases, blur, noise, environment color) as final result.

One Man for a hole VFX film
http://video.nytimes.com/video/2010/10/28/movies/1248069253174/creating-monsters.html

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IduCI0Cxjbg)

Helicopter Takeoff
http://vimeo.com/18050408

Photo Real Car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlHlqocz7to

:thumbsup:

Lor
05-13-2011, 01:13 PM
CG-Masters.com is pleased to announce three new titles.

The Rocketship Project.

At last, just for Eagle66 ;) The Rocketship Project is complete. In this complete end-to-end project, we touch on everything from scratch modeling to final composite. Learn to model, texture, light, animate, simulate, render and composite for visual effects. Over 10 hours of high quality training from an industry veteran comes to you for a killer introductory package price.
http://cg-masters.com/videos/software/3

The Rocketship Project: Rendering and Compositing.

If you are one of the many who has been following along with The Rocketship Project and getting each part as it comes out, here's the final chapter of the series. Concluding the Rocketship Project, we learn how to create separate render passes that can be used to composite the CG elements onto a live action background. This 2.5 hour set shows you many render tricks and introduces you to compositing using Nuke, one of the most powerful compositing applications on the planet.
http://cg-masters.com/videos/software/3

The CG Artist's Guide to Camera Part 1

New to real cameras? As a CG artist it is critical that you understand Focal Length, Field of View, Depth of Field, Lens types, Camera types, Filmback and many other terms and parameters used in everyday cinematography. Heres a short, fact-filled primer for you.
http://cg-masters.com/videos/software/12

Eagle66
05-15-2011, 02:03 PM
Okay fine!

I think "The Rocketship Project" was announced as Beginner Class to show to Worklfow for CG and Live Action integration, and for this it is great i think. It's not what you deliver as Filmproduction results and it is a very low quality as comparison to my post above, what i called Studio Quality.

So now - what do you have to do, to get the Rocketship as realistic result - 100 percent realistic result, thats my questions and the problem, there are many Lessons out there with near 90 percent Realism - i'am looking for the last 10 percent and i hope for the advanced Master Class next time.....

Lor
05-15-2011, 05:03 PM
Okay fine!

I think "The Rocketship Project" was announced as Beginner Class to show to Worklfow for CG and Live Action integration, and for this it is great i think. It's not what you deliver as Filmproduction results and it is a very low quality as comparison to my post above, what i called Studio Quality.

So now - what do you have to do, to get the Rocketship as realistic result - 100 percent realistic result, thats my questions and the problem, there are many Lessons out there with near 90 percent Realism - i'am looking for the last 10 percent and i hope for the advanced Master Class next time.....

Hi Eagle66,

Hmmm, I don't recall announcing The Rocketship Project as a beginner class, although I am quite certain it would be extremely useful to them. And there are many artists who have no need for some of the sections, which is why we elected to release it both as a package and as individual parts, so people could pick and choose among the more basic and more advanced sections. I do think it's unfair to characterize the series a "very low quality". We put a great deal of time, effort and professional expertise into the series and the feedback from our customers so far has been entirely positive. Well...except yours. ;)

As to the quality of the series, I guess time and teaching-philosophy are the main issues here. As they say "the last 10% is 90% of the work". Real professional shots can take days to complete, or sometimes even weeks. Our tutorials, and most of the tutorials you'll find out there, are aimed at helping the most people possible in the briefest possible time without getting so specific and lengthy as to be unhelpful or unweildy. The last 10% is about sweetening a specific shot using methods that may be specific to that one shot and not necessarily helpful for others, or completing tasks that are so repetitive as to be mind-numbing. We do try to equip our viewers with the ability to think through problems on their own by showing our examples, and by actually working through the problems onscreen, errors included, so that people can witness OUR thinking process, not merely how to use the tools.

So while I definitely understand the desire for artists trying to break into the industry to see a professional shot step by painful step all the way to 100% production-quality finished, I am not sure many people would be pleased either with paying for 50 hours of training considering they get the most out of it in the first five hours, nor do I think many professional artists would be willing to create such training for the few people who might be willing to purchase it.

We're pretty happy that our training provides artists with essential tools to start a job, and with the thinking process to carry on to completion themselves, which is what teaching should be at it's core: teaching people how to think through a problem, not simply showing them every single step and handing the finished product to them on a platter.

I feel confident that most of the people who watch The Rocketship Project will be able to extrapolate from each of the lessons to carry the work even further, if they wish, even if they wish to go to 100% production complete (whatever that is), without the need to see our instructor tweak every tiny detail to perfection. I think it would be a disservice to them if we asked them to pay for all those hours or to sit through it all when the amount of added learning is negligible.

Yet having said all that, I would be very interested to hear how many people out there would be willing to buck up for "the last 10%". Understand we are talking about sitting through maybe another 20 - 40 hours of (relatively boring) tlc, and in the end the image will look 10% better. Is there a market for such training? If so, please do let us know via the contact page at cg-masters.com or email contact (at) cg-masters (dot) com. Obviously at least one person feels this would be a valuable commodity. We'd love to know how many more such opinions are out there.

lor

Eagle66
05-16-2011, 01:07 PM
Well, thanks for the long reply :thumbsup:

You describe the problem, and you see it at this thread: there are not many independent CG people here, which needs this advanced stuff (the last 10% realism :)) because they use LW not for Production VFX-Films or are happy with this results (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoTD6gTLkHQ) :hey: All others work at Studios and have a long year education at Full Time VFX Schools.

Its difficult and a log way outside this Schools to learn behind the basics with Maya, C4D, 3DMax, Nuke (at FXPHD, Escape Studios or other which have this Realism series) and adapt this to LW. So the announcement of cg-masters i say: "Wow, Master Class finally for LW!"

I don't characterize the series as "very low quality", but a cartoon RocketShip on a kitchen table, with unfavorable and difficult Live Footage, is IMHO not a very useful content to show the problems and solve realistic CG/VFX Effects for Film.
The "Helicopter Takeoff" or the small "CG-Car" Videos above -at my post #261- as example are also able in this 8 Hours (perhaps without modeling) but the content and the possible result will teach practicable real CG for Films.

So my wish at the beginning for this end-to-end VFX-Serie was useful CG content and Footage and not 50 Hours....

But: I order the great awesome "RocketShip" next month and i will see if it helps me - and perhaps the stuff knocks me out of my shoes ..... :rock:

wesleycorgi
05-16-2011, 01:20 PM
Hi Lor: I know the rendering/compositing module focuses on renders for use in Nuke, but can the same concepts be applied to AE? Do you cover render buffers with EXR?

I'll probably pick up after I'm done with your Lighting series.

Lor
05-16-2011, 01:32 PM
but a cartoon RocketShip on a kitchen table, with unfavorable and difficult Live Footage, is IMHO not a very useful content to show the problems and solve realistic CG/VFX Effects for Film.


This gave me a good chuckle. Most footage used in VFX is "unfavorable and difficult." ;D I think it's a fairly good representation, actually.

The feedback so far is that people are finding the tutorials very useful. Eagle66, I'm not sure what your VFX experience is but I can say for sure that this series covers most of the topics in real film and TV visual effects, except perhaps for colour management and log delivery formats. And I speak with a little authority on the topic, myself having completed several thousand shots for dozens of movies, a handful of tv shows and about 50 commercials. I sincerely hope you find the actual Rocketship Project tutorials more useful than the impression you seem to have from viewing the previews.

lor

Lor
05-16-2011, 01:38 PM
Hi Lor: I know the rendering/compositing module focuses on renders for use in Nuke, but can the same concepts be applied to AE? Do you cover render buffers with EXR?

I'll probably pick up after I'm done with your Lighting series.

Hi wesleycorgi.

AE has never been used for compositing in any studio I've worked at so I'm afraid I can't answer that question except to say that the Compositing teaches how to do this composite using Nuke. So to be frank, I don't think so. I think AE is a layer based compositing app rather than a node-based workflow like Nuke, if AE hasn't changed since the last time I saw it.

I did not use render buffers in this example. Rather I showed several methods of creating render passes using material techniques, matte shading and alpha opacity.

Hope that's helpful in making your decisions.

lor

GCastro
05-17-2011, 10:20 AM
Hey Lor,

First off let me say the training on cg-masters.com looks awesome. Can't wait to see what you come up with for maya and more nuke stuff :)

If i had to venture a guess, i think issue in terms of "realistic" is that the scene itself doesn't lend itself to be realistic. Had the shot been of some kids in the back yard staring up their mini rocket, that would seem more of a realistic senario to him maybe? Still, with the knowledge you present here, i think once we learn these techniques, we can apply them anywhere :)

-George

Lor
05-17-2011, 10:28 AM
Hey there George.

We will be adding Maya and Nuke training for sure.

I get what you're saying about the rocket on the counter instead of in the back yard with kids (for example), but I guess my focus was not whether the story of the shot was fundamentally plausible, but on techniques. I'll definitely give it more thought the next time I do a similar project. Thanks for the feedback.


Still, with the knowledge you present here, i think once we learn these techniques, we can apply them anywhere :)


Precisely the point. But still maybe we can do it better. If it helps people learn, we definitely want to go there.

lor

cg_mike
05-20-2011, 01:19 AM
Hi Lor,

Went to check out the preview, but it seems that the current video preview on this page:
http://cg-masters.com/videos/the-rocketship-project
is the "Seeing With The Artist's Eye" preview.

Lor
05-20-2011, 07:41 AM
Thanks Mike. That's fixed now.

lor