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SonicN2O
12-23-2010, 01:36 PM
I've been experimenting with making a nuclear explosion in lightwave, but I've been having trouble with the mushroom cloud, flying debris, etc. My idea of a nuclear blast is a long, bright flash (lens flare) followed by a dust cloud that eats up anything in it's path, and when the dust settles (no pun intended) you can see a towering mushroom cloud that hangs in the air for30 seconds or so. Pls help!

OnlineRender
12-23-2010, 01:55 PM
LW lensflare how 2000 :D ,'wish they would update that' I don't have a video for LW , but I do have one for Blender ,but thats means opening up another web page .......sigh . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_Kkav0ibCI

I would say : particles , HV , hard fx ,could even use metaballs :) and loads of time tweaking .

OnlineRender
12-23-2010, 01:59 PM
actually thought about this now :

you can create a shape 'like a mushroom' in modeller .

either mask it or morph it upwards , then attatch sprite / hv's + Particles .

dude this is an open ended question , but for space stuff you came to the right place .

Elmar Moelzer
12-23-2010, 02:07 PM
I had made a mushroom cloud in LW a few years back, just for fun. It is actually rather simple.
You just have to make a doughnut in Modeler, kill all the polygons and jitter the points a bit (try various techniques to still get a hull of points). Then create a spline curve in the center and a row of skelegons from that.
Copy and paste every other skelegon to make sure they are not attached to each other. Then in Layout, you convert the skelegons into bones. Select all the bones and rotate them around their length. You can make the mushroom stem any way you want. Particles can work. I just used layers of point objects and bones to animate them.
Throw the good old Hypervoxels on that and you are set.

prometheus
12-24-2010, 04:43 AM
Thatīs been discussed a lot in spinquad forums, mainly same basic techniques as for the 24 series mushroom nuke, wich used dynamite voxels on some rotating polygons and hypervoxels for the stem.

on this thread it was made in almost similar way, but with a donut geometry wich was rotated and it had hypervoxels on that..

http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?28695-Pop-It-mushroom-cloud-tekneek&highlight=mushroom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9aJt_YSgnE&NR=1

I justed fooled around and used a donut geometry with normal displacement, rotation of the mushroom shape is done by selecting the geometrys edges and making skelegons of them and convert to bones in layout, and then just selected the bones and rotating them with the blue bank handles.

http://www.spinquad.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28711&d=1188408512


and another thread..
http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?19579-Nuclear-explosion&highlight=mushroom%20cloud

Itīs a matter of look and rendertime if you would like to use hypervoxels on the geometry or only surfacing.

Michael

Elmar Moelzer
12-24-2010, 05:55 AM
I put a lot of postprocessing on it, mostly glow effects. It looks much better that way.

lwaddict
12-29-2010, 09:15 PM
One of the LightROM disc sets that came out years back still has one of the best, if not the easiest, mushroom fx I've ever seen...
even better than "24"s explosion in any of the series.

It's a shape with hypervoxels applied to it...
the texture attributes run the flow of the pyroclastics...
but the beginning explosion flash and even the debris blast into the camera are freakin' flawless.

Look around for this...
it's out there and the explosion is on the cover.

LightROM...
old stuff but absolutely still worth looking at...
and they should be dirt cheap.

JohnMarchant
12-30-2010, 06:46 AM
One of the LightROM disc sets that came out years back still has one of the best, if not the easiest, mushroom fx I've ever seen...
even better than "24"s explosion in any of the series.

It's a shape with hypervoxels applied to it...
the texture attributes run the flow of the pyroclastics...
but the beginning explosion flash and even the debris blast into the camera are freakin' flawless.

Look around for this...
it's out there and the explosion is on the cover.

LightROM...
old stuff but absolutely still worth looking at...
and they should be dirt cheap.

Yeah i have that around somewhere think it was Dean Scott that did it if memory recalls.

lwaddict
12-30-2010, 10:00 AM
http://chrusion.com/portfolio_vfx.php

Right side menu has a thumbnail of it but they haven't setup
their portfolio page to represent a little better.

But you have to see this.
Very, very nice.
And it's still available to anyone who wants to use it or just
take it apart and learn from it.

And it's not the only effect done with old school trickery...
lots of things can and do get done a lot easier than we make them out to.
:jam:

erikals
12-30-2010, 12:33 PM
maybe buy ogo taiki,... ($30 or so...)
and use particles, like in this example,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW0ImR2zZ9M

colkai
12-31-2010, 03:39 AM
Yeah i have that around somewhere think it was Dean Scott that did it if memory recalls.

Your memory serves you well, I still have the CD right here, along with the LightRom 4. :)

JohnMarchant
12-31-2010, 06:21 AM
Your memory serves you well, I still have the CD right here, along with the LightRom 4. :)

Glad ive not lost it. I got most of the series years ago, would have to go into the loft to dig them out.

colkai
12-31-2010, 06:48 AM
Don't forget as well, Dean was responsible for the B5 station model which I think was amazing for the time.

prometheus
12-31-2010, 09:46 AM
Could anyone render that mushroom explosion out from lightrom? or
is there a link somewhere to that movie clip, Im just interested to see how it looks.

Michael

kirkeric
12-31-2010, 12:40 PM
Hello All,

I've read all of the posts and viewed all of the various links on examples and so forth. What I've not been able to find so far is and actual tutorial on how to build the mushroom cloud/explosion.

I have the new LW10, AE CS5, Trapcode Particular just to name some tools. It would be really great to get a tutorial out there. Does anyone know of one?

Thanks ahead.

Eric
Kirk Productions

JohnMarchant
12-31-2010, 02:20 PM
Could anyone render that mushroom explosion out from lightrom? or
is there a link somewhere to that movie clip, Im just interested to see how it looks.

Michael

I tried to load it into LW 9.6.1 and LW 10 in 32 and 64 bit but no go, it crashes both, so sorry no way to get you a screen cap mate

SonicN2O
12-31-2010, 07:25 PM
hmmm... expirimenting with making two particle emitters, then having one shoot up and the other shoot particles out. It's good for still images, but not convincing for video. I like to stick with particle emitters When I do stuff like this... "Create" rather than "Create the illusion of"... Maybe I should study the physics of a mushroom cloud.

Mr Rid
01-01-2011, 03:59 AM
It can be done with a donut wind, but it takes alotta futzing. Donut winds break if you scale them with a transform. Use a Radius value instead.

an example-
http://www.box.net/shared/static/0d31u277mm.mov
wire-
http://www.box.net/shared/static/9l01cso51s.mov

launch exhaust using an upsidedown donut with scaling radius-
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75613&d=1248416366

prometheus
01-01-2011, 09:13 AM
Itīs a little funny that rarely no one recomend or use fluids for this type, because it simply just doesnt behave the way you want it to.

Some external wind forces or letīs say turbulence 4d had interactivity with lightwave donut wind forces or if turbulence 4d had Itīs own special seperate wind forces outside of the turbulence internal forces, then that might be a good way.

Then again..you could always do a mix and create particles and donut winds similar to Mr rids fire in the city but mix that with the turbulence 4d to get a more gas whispy effect around it too.

Michael

jawset
01-01-2011, 03:09 PM
Itīs a little funny that rarely no one recomend or use fluids for this type, because it simply just doesnt behave the way you want it to.
I think this is a matter of familiarness. The prettiest CG mushroom clouds have been created with fluids (for example the Terminator 3 nukes).
Here are some very nice examples:
http://briandemetz.com/_/BrianDeMetz_DemoReel_Part3_FFXsamples_v16.mov
Here is a simple test with TurbulenceFD:
http://download.jawset.de/gallery/tfd/mushroom_cloud_test.mov

The mushroom cloud effect is a basic property of fluid simulation. It's created when a strong upward force is balanced out by pressure equalization.
To get it, you
- spread heat quickly across a large region (which will become the head of the mushroom)
- you can do the spreading using fuel expansion, particles or any other emitter
- use very low or no cooling, such that the heat cloud can move upwards while continuing to exert strong buoyancy forces
- add turbulence noise and vorticity to amplify the swirly motion


Some external wind forces or letīs say turbulence 4d had interactivity with lightwave donut wind forces or if turbulence 4d had Itīs own special seperate wind forces outside of the turbulence internal forces, then that might be a good way.

Then again..you could always do a mix and create particles and donut winds similar to Mr rids fire in the city but mix that with the turbulence 4d to get a more gas whispy effect around it too.
Yes, i can imagine adding support for wind effectors or a similar operator to TFD to make things more flexible.

Phil
01-01-2011, 03:45 PM
Here is a simple test with TurbulenceFD:
http://download.jawset.de/gallery/tfd/mushroom_cloud_test.mov


Is that example something you could share or make part of the T4D distribution?

prometheus
01-01-2011, 04:25 PM
I think this is a matter of familiarness. The prettiest CG mushroom clouds have been created with fluids (for example the Terminator 3 nukes).
Here are some very nice examples:
http://briandemetz.com/_/BrianDeMetz_DemoReel_Part3_FFXsamples_v16.mov


Yes, i can imagine adding support for wind effectors or a similar operator to TFD to make things more flexible.

Yay..briandemetz explosions are stunning:thumbsup:

Wasnīt the terminator 3 nuke actually geometry with some clever texturing? at least the nuke in the beginning, donīt know about the end nukes thou.

It would be great if you consider adding support for wind effectors or other wind operators.

Thanks for the suggestions on how to set up fluids for a mushroom look.

Michael

SonicN2O
01-01-2011, 04:38 PM
What are fluids? sorry, I'm a newbie.

erikals
01-01-2011, 05:19 PM
usually smoke or water simulations,
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fluids+simulations&aq=f

jawset
01-01-2011, 05:34 PM
Is that example something you could share or make part of the T4D distribution?
Yes, will do. I did this one with C4D, but i'll add it as a LW scene to the next update.



Wasnīt the terminator 3 nuke actually geometry with some clever texturing? at least the nuke in the beginning, donīt know about the end nukes thou.
AFAIK they used 2D fluids and a clever technique to rotate them into 3D.

Mr Rid
01-01-2011, 11:00 PM
Itīs a little funny that rarely no one recomend or use fluids for this type, because it simply just doesnt behave the way you want it to....

Michael

I love the donut wind but it can take a lot of tweaking to get particles moving right for a splosion shroom. But a nuke should be easier with it moving so slowly.

prometheus
01-02-2011, 05:53 AM
What are fluids? sorry, I'm a newbie.


Fluids is a technique wich is based on a more true physics adaptation on
how to move around voxels in a grid resolution based on equations more true to nature, compared to standard particles.

go to jawsetīs site
http://www.jawset.com/

Download the turbulence 4d plugin for lightwave v 0.3.30

And find out for yourself.

You can also test advanced fluids in houdini apprentice wich is free, and it has the full package of liquid fluids, and fire and smoke fluids (pyro fx)
some videos here..
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=111&Itemid=262

Blender is also free and has fire and smoke and also liquid fluids.

Real flow & scanline flowline and maya is some of the top expensive stuff you could get your hands on.

some wiki stuff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_simulation


Michael
http://vimeo.com/user680656/videos

prometheus
01-02-2011, 06:07 AM
I love the donut wind but it can take a lot of tweaking to get particles moving right for a splosion shroom. But a nuke should be easier with it moving so slowly.

I wonder thou what you would say the advantages is to work with a donut wind compared to the technique of using geometry with voxels as in the popit nuke.. or as in the 24 nuke where jarrod davis used simple poly disc arranged in an array, and had dynamites voxels on that controlled with animation controllers.
You would loose the velocity from particles for sure.

using this geometry approach works with that A-bomb style perhaps with
Itīs mushroom top being a single shape rolling continuesly and slowly, but
it is harder to create smoke inside that top shape wich bulges and rises up
slowly within that.

Some nukes depicted donīt have that and some do, depends on what look you aim for.

The smaller bomb or stuff like car bombs are definatly material for fluids anyway.

Edit...In a interview with jarrod davis, he said that the fluids didnīt behave the way they wanted it to, so even if they had acess to dynamites fluids at that time,
he coose to not use it, only the particle voxels, but then again I donīt think dynamite had evolved enough at that time and I think It didnīt have the same control for the
fluids like turbulence has today.


Michael
http://vimeo.com/user680656/videos

erikals
01-02-2011, 08:41 AM
it kinda depends on what look you're going for,
fluids don't look 100% right, hypervoxels don't look 100% right...
you just have to choose really, what looks the best for you specific scene...
(...in addition there is the option to do it in post)

SonicN2O
01-02-2011, 05:51 PM
But if you study the physics of the Mushroom cloud, and input that into the HV settings, wouldn't that give you a realistic result? *sigh* I wish you could have a Texture editor for all these inputs, then just make a Gradient for Particle age in the Vibration parameter.

erikals
01-02-2011, 07:55 PM
no, unfortunately, neither Hypervoxels or fluids are physically accurate...
...it would take too long to calculate, so nope, you have to pretty much just try...

Mr Rid
01-03-2011, 12:40 AM
But if you study the physics of the Mushroom cloud, and input that into the HV settings, wouldn't that give you a realistic result? *sigh* I wish you could have a Texture editor for all these inputs, then just make a Gradient for Particle age in the Vibration parameter.


Keep in mind that getting particles to move right is one battle, then making voxels shade right is another. But you should also rely on 2D integration of different layers and processing that may add 50% more realism with far less struggle than tweaking in render intensive 3D.

An example of the difference 2D can make-
91466

Shiny_Mike
01-03-2011, 02:01 AM
There are a series of free (just need to register) mushroom cloud tuts for the Turbulence plugin (cinema4d version, but close enough), I think this is the last one:
http://www.black-and-white-to-color.com/ipbsfx/files/file/95-cinema-4d-tutorial-t4d-tfd-tut-7-ground-explosion/
a nice clip of the result:
http://www.black-and-white-to-color.com/stuff/blastt4d.mov

Also, as stated earlier, the new* Blender can do mushroom clouds, easy to setup - but it's buggy and I've had strange problems rendering the smoke, especially using multiple scattering, lots of weird flickering. Not sure if there's a proper way to get around that or not?
*new as in 2.55, haven't tried with 2.56 yet

erikals
01-03-2011, 06:40 AM
for educational purposes, T3nuke...
http://erikalstad.com/cgtemp/T3nuke.zip

...i was kinda disappointed :]
i remembered it as being much more realistic...
 

prometheus
01-03-2011, 06:46 AM
But if you study the physics of the Mushroom cloud, and input that into the HV settings, wouldn't that give you a realistic result? *sigh* I wish you could have a Texture editor for all these inputs, then just make a Gradient for Particle age in the Vibration parameter.

To keep things straight, there are no physics in Hv settings, dynamics is happening in particles and with dynamic winds. You can get som fake effect motions thou within hypervoxels in the hypervoxels texture effect wich has billowing,velocity translate, displace,dissolve and turbulence.

As mentioned by Mr rid, It is a battle to get particles moving right, and with
donut winds Itīs likely that particles spin around to fast wich would give a nasty look.

And as mentioned by Mr rid, the applyance of hypervoxels itself is another battle.

The former forsaken dynamite plugin, had some nice features to help with that, such as metaball blending wich smoothed out the voxels next to each other as hypervoxels do in surface mode, It wasnīt as good thou as the hv surface mode is, but it helped avoid round voxel puffs a little.

Dynamite also had much more control over voxel rotation...
http://vimeo.com/9127056
http://vimeo.com/9127089

And dynamite could be applied to polyons not only vertices, it can place and size voxels accordingly to polygon geometry, and those features was used in the 24 nuke, and apart from that the internal fireshader is sweet.

The lite versions was free and could use all that, Unfortunatly I donīt think they are available anywhere now.

I still think these samples posted by jawset from briandemetz..are awesome..Even thou they might be classified as huge bombs one or two levels under A-bombs.
http://briandemetz.com/_/BrianDeMetz_DemoReel_Part3_FFXsamples_v16.mov

They need a little more constrain on the mushroom top to get a more rounder uniform look in order to match the Big One.

Yeah shiny mike that sample is nice too, but same goes there, It need more constrained shape of the mushroom top, but for smaller nukes/bombs they are nice.


Michael

erikals
01-03-2011, 07:04 AM
Dynamite also had much more control over voxel rotation...
http://vimeo.com/9127056
http://vimeo.com/9127089

that's pretty close to Ogo Taiki....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW0ImR2zZ9M
 

erikals
01-03-2011, 07:06 AM
btw, does anybody has a link to good nuke footage?
i've searched up and down, but it's hard to find a good looking nuke...

 

prometheus
01-03-2011, 07:44 AM
Have you tried ogo taiki with lightwave 10 erikals?


Hereīs a little insight break down of the terminator 3 nuke, rise of the machines..indeed some 2dfluids?... for the basic motion..
http://www.awn.com/articles/technology/iterminator-3i-rise-explosions

Michael

Mr Rid
01-03-2011, 11:54 AM
btw, does anybody has a link to good nuke footage?
i've searched up and down, but it's hard to find a good looking nuke...

 

http://www.box.net/shared/static/sphl7d4c0v.divx

Plenty of real & CG on YT and elsewhere. The Atomic Bomb Movie has nice restored clips. Zero G and underground tests are the most interesting ones to me.

erikals
01-03-2011, 12:32 PM
thank you both for the links,

now, i know this was 1945, but do these exist in [ahem] higher resolution... ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtSt5XZ7fq4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KISiBHxv40
 
(prometheus, no, haven't gotten around to test Taiki in LW10 just yet...)
 

Mr Rid
01-03-2011, 07:21 PM
HD clips here- http://www.youtube.com/user/atomcentral#p/u/0/DNlcX2iWom4

erikals
01-03-2011, 07:41 PM
good reference!

thank you! http://erikalstad.com/backup/anims.php_files/king.gif

dwburman
01-03-2011, 08:55 PM
Ooo, There's a BluRay version of the Atomic Bomb Movie (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002VCPFGY/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B002LOAUP8&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1Q6SR97TT94XEA254SBQ). Now. I have the DVD. Cool stuff. Atomic Journeys is pretty cool too. The Rainbow Nukes DVD wasn't as impressive to me, though.

Netvudu
01-03-2011, 09:40 PM
for those really interested into the technique used for Terminator 3, apart from that cool article, already linked, you can read these one-page long pdf which is quite informative

http://physbam.stanford.edu/~fedkiw/papers/stanford2003-05.pdf

Basically, the idea behind this is to calculate 2d Fluid simulations, which are waaay faster than the usual 3d stuff. This way you can try a lot of iterations until you get a nice mushroom motion, or whatever motion you want.
Then you copy this slice of fluid and rotate it to obtain several slices...much in the way vegetation was done in old games (and sometimes not so old) and use the velocity field from those 2d fluid slices to advect particles. Because the interpolation of those velocities between the slices is a bit "fake" and shows the trick, you add a noise field to smooth out all particle motions.

With the help of some very smart people from the Houdini forums I was able to prototype this technique a year ago or so (which was originally made by ILM coding in Maya) and it worked nicely without a single line of code. I never polished the solution or had to patience to throw in a volumetric render of it, though. I still have the projects files around I think...

Now, how to replicate this technique in Lightwave...Iīm clueless. I suppose some amout of coding would be needed, just like in Maya.

prometheus
01-04-2011, 10:34 AM
Oohh man, I just installed turbulence 4d demo in lightwave 10, and man It calculates much faster than lw 9.6 ..and Ooh man Isnīt it rendering the fluid volumetrics fast in VPR..very sweet.:thumbsup:

Michael

prometheus
01-04-2011, 11:47 AM
Uhhm..I believe I installed the version before the latest release of turbulence 4d, so It might be faster because of the older version beeing faster..have to check.

I have a weird render issue in lightwave 10, when rendering out a frame with f9 and in vpr, the frame looks good but when Im trying to render out an image sequence with f10, the frame and the fluid seems to be cut out and clipped...see image.

Michael

dwburman
01-04-2011, 02:52 PM
That's not cool. You could work around the problem with Matt's Limited Region render thingy. That renders an F9 sequence... or use a VPR preview.

erikals
01-04-2011, 03:29 PM
must be a bug somewhere...

jawset
01-04-2011, 05:07 PM
Uhhm..I believe I installed the version before the latest release of turbulence 4d, so It might be faster because of the older version beeing faster..have to check.

I have a weird render issue in lightwave 10, when rendering out a frame with f9 and in vpr, the frame looks good but when Im trying to render out an image sequence with f10, the frame and the fluid seems to be cut out and clipped...see image.
Please send what i need to reproduce this problem to [email protected] The same goes for when you have a scene that simulates and/or renders slower in a newer version of TFD.

Thanks!

prometheus
01-05-2011, 12:59 AM
I will post the file later on when I get home, I have a full working day left.

the file I used was the simple explosion sample, but I did some sim and render changes, that could have cause some weird rendering, but Itīs still weird that f9 and vpr renders it correctly and not f10 in lightwave 10.

Anyway Itīs lovely to see how fast it updates in vpr, at least for resolutions 25mm and above, and at least for the fast illumination method, it becomes significally slower if choosing some of the other illumination methods thou.

The whole interactive feedback you get when able to tweak fluids together with objects and full scenes is indeed very valuable.
Turbulence 4d is getting higher up on my investment list for now.

Michael
http://vimeo.com/user680656/videos

SonicN2O
03-29-2011, 08:47 AM
I sucessfully made a mediocre scene. I don't know where to go from here, as far as the cloud is concerned... I could really use some help.
94022

prometheus
03-29-2011, 10:08 AM
somethings looks weird with the scene, I tried it with lw 10 and it doesn+t show up in the vpr and the voxels are almost completly black?

the procedural cell is something I would avoid since it is extremly slow and therefore not very suitable for hypervoxels.

Michael

JohnMarchant
03-29-2011, 10:39 AM
I sucessfully made a mediocre scene. I don't know where to go from here, as far as the cloud is concerned... I could really use some help.
94022

Try this got rid of cells. The particles are fine its the hypervoxels shading that needs sorting out

SonicN2O
03-29-2011, 02:04 PM
I didn't put much work into the voxels... Are you sure the particles are good? Doesn't look very mushroomy to me... I'll post an image with better voxels.

SonicN2O
03-29-2011, 02:25 PM
94042
Improved voxles

SonicN2O
03-29-2011, 03:15 PM
Seriously, I think there's a problem with the particles... They should rotate up, like they're doing, but then they shoot up into the air and it starts to look like crap... It should hang in the air, too. This is way over the head of a newbie like me. :help:
94046

SonicN2O
03-29-2011, 04:41 PM
I'm trying to make these dust particles sweep out (see post #1) but I can't get it to work... using partilces and wind...
94051

SonicN2O
03-30-2011, 11:07 AM
Updated version... How do you get all particles to just stop moving? :bangwall::bangwall::bangwall::bangwall::bangwall: :bangwall:
94065

OnlineRender
03-30-2011, 11:38 AM
Updated version... How do you get all particles to just stop moving? :bangwall::bangwall::bangwall::bangwall::bangwall: :bangwall:
94065

kill particles or particle life /\ or collusion ,several ways to stop / kill particles

JohnMarchant
03-30-2011, 11:55 AM
Also you can have a ground object with collision on it set to erase if memory recalls. But they wont just stop you will have to fade them out using the above mentioned particle lifetime

SonicN2O
03-30-2011, 05:12 PM
I want to make the scene like in CoD4, where there is a blast of light and the cloud starts rising, then a bunch of particulate matter spreads out and eventually goes away, then after the cloud reaches a certain Height, it just stays there, unmoving. (particle lifetime- about 7000 frames). I cant get the particles to stop and I can't get the dust to sweep out.

prometheus
03-31-2011, 11:04 AM
I would seriously look in to the turbulence plugin for this, You are probably not considering it since the cost etc, but it is seriously really the best for best realism.

You can either completly simulate it within turbulence, or use particles and use your particle setup already done, and have it as an fluid emitter wich paints the fluids with the particles..

the image attached is a printscreen on your scene in combination with turbulence fluids, now thereīs some blobbyness there, but I havenīt really changed anything with texture size or set the most proper voxels container resolution, this was just a minor tweak in density no further tweaks, so you could improve a lot from that.

otherwise if you still want to go with voxels, You can also simple create a donut ring and rig it with bones in a ring around the donut and animate it by rotating the bank handles and you can simply stop the motion by at the end by not rotating it, add particles to the donut, add secondary child emitters wich follows the first emitter slightly, this trailing child emitter can have a different wind group to spread out and also different smoother voxels.

Michael
http://vimeo.com/user680656/videos/page:1/sort:newest

SonicN2O
03-31-2011, 11:13 AM
Okaaaay... how much does turbulence cost? and can you get the particles to stop moving and just hang in the air? I was able to get it to work once with just what comes with LW, but I couldn't get it to work again after that...

prometheus
03-31-2011, 11:32 AM
€399.00
http://www.jawset.com/purchase.php

You can download the demo here...the demo has a watermark on images rendered.
but are fully functional...and you can test render fluids by themself "no scene context" without a watermark in a 640x480 resolution
http://www.jawset.com/downloads.php


There are ways of getting "particles to hang in the air" donīt have the time to go through that now and test it.

I think you can get the turbulence fluid smoke to hang steady too, but havent tested.

the smoke that needs to be beneath the main top mushroom can be much smoother looking and realistic than what you have to work on with hypervoxels.

Michael

Chrusion
03-31-2011, 03:16 PM
... think it was Dean Scott that did it if memory recalls.
Indeed... I think this was a bit before HVs came out, or if they did exist, took way too long to render. Wow... that was done at least 13 yrs ago!

Anyway, I've been away from this forum for a long while and obviously missed the convo here, so just a couple notes on how I did mine.

All geometry that used Darkling Simulation's Darktree Textures standalone and LW plugin to create the color and grayscale dmap sequence. The torroid mesh is fixed (no bone or morph rotations) with the dmap sequence controlling the apparent rolling effect. The same sequences were applied to the "stalk."

Most may not realize this, but the mushroom cloud starts out as a spherical "blast front" of high-pressure, ionized and super heated atmosphere and vaporized bomb material. This "shell" quickly collapses as it cools and becomes a rolling torroid cloud. Thus, in my anim I scale up this sphere and then scale it down as it dissolves out, revealing the mushroom cloud geometry within.

The debris cloud was simply a couple rings of polys mapped with a hand-drawn B/W image of dots, points, and sticks/twigs, etc. used as a clipmap with a fast vertical translation and a feathered edge. Then I used Surface Effectors to reveal a second ground plane textured with burnt desert.
.

erikals
03-31-2011, 03:21 PM
there is ogo taiki though...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW0ImR2zZ9M
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1003995#post1003995

alternatively combine it with real smart motion blur AE plugin (RSMB)
or neat video AE plugin....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36gjDlHEnzk
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112843

 

SonicN2O
03-31-2011, 03:30 PM
Just got LW10- awesome...
I also used Time machine to get the old version of this file... another reason to ditch ur PC and get a mac.
Ummm having some upload issues...

SonicN2O
03-31-2011, 09:32 PM
there... Did it work?

prometheus
04-01-2011, 01:26 AM
there... Did it work?

Hi!

I havent checked your scene, dowloaded it yesterday, but I am at work right now busy with other stuff, weeken is coming up wich allows for som fun play with turbulence for final evaluation before purchase.

SonicN20..Iīm sorry, I got notified that my mailbox was full, Ive cleared some messages and you can try to post again if you want.

Michael

SonicN2O
04-01-2011, 07:39 AM
I was just going to ask about the joystick tool in the LW10 product vid.

JohnMarchant
04-01-2011, 07:45 AM
Indeed... I think this was a bit before HVs came out, or if they did exist, took way too long to render. Wow... that was done at least 13 yrs ago!

Anyway, I've been away from this forum for a long while and obviously missed the convo here, so just a couple notes on how I did mine.

All geometry that used Darkling Simulation's Darktree Textures standalone and LW plugin to create the color and grayscale dmap sequence. The torroid mesh is fixed (no bone or morph rotations) with the dmap sequence controlling the apparent rolling effect. The same sequences were applied to the "stalk."

Most may not realize this, but the mushroom cloud starts out as a spherical "blast front" of high-pressure, ionized and super heated atmosphere and vaporized bomb material. This "shell" quickly collapses as it cools and becomes a rolling torroid cloud. Thus, in my anim I scale up this sphere and then scale it down as it dissolves out, revealing the mushroom cloud geometry within.

The debris cloud was simply a couple rings of polys mapped with a hand-drawn B/W image of dots, points, and sticks/twigs, etc. used as a clipmap with a fast vertical translation and a feathered edge. Then I used Surface Effectors to reveal a second ground plane textured with burnt desert.
.

Long time no hear Dean hope all is well for you. I got your scene on one of those LightRom discs ages ago, it still stands up well but alas does not seem to work on the latest LW versions. Geometry you still have far more control than HV for this sort of thing

prometheus
04-01-2011, 08:28 AM
Long time no hear Dean hope all is well for you. I got your scene on one of those LightRom discs ages ago, it still stands up well but alas does not seem to work on the latest LW versions. Geometry you still have far more control than HV for this sort of thing

Ivé been hearing about that scene from time to time, but I havenīt seen the animation from it, maybe a thumb image only somewhere.
Cant somebody render out a little animation from that?

Michael

JohnMarchant
04-01-2011, 08:52 AM
I have it but dont have any earlier versions of LW installed to make a render for you. I always hoped Dean would get around to updating it for LW 9 or 10

SonicN2O
04-01-2011, 12:51 PM
I have a quick question that is completely unrelated to the thread... :)
I made a scene where I want multiple identical objects to have the same HardFX settings, so I parented them all to one object and set that one, but only the parent is doing anything.

prometheus
04-01-2011, 12:57 PM
uhmm..donīt think you can get any hardfx on to those by parenting, canīt
you just use the objects as objects segment in one and same object?

I donīt follow thou what type of hardfx you want?

Michael

SonicN2O
04-01-2011, 02:25 PM
If I was to, say, Build a spaceship object with 10 layers, and parent layers 2-9 of the ship to layer 1, and then instead of going through every single layer and applying hardFX to it to blow up the ship, I could (in theory) just apply hardFX to layer 1, right?

hcoat
04-01-2011, 03:51 PM
I have a quick question that is completely unrelated to the thread... :)
I made a scene where I want multiple identical objects to have the same HardFX settings, so I parented them all to one object and set that one, but only the parent is doing anything.

The trick is to set the parameters for one and then clone the object. This unfortunately does't allow for tweak after so set right the first time and you will be fine.:D

SonicN2O
04-01-2011, 04:34 PM
What about an object that is different but u want the same HFX settings?

Mr Rid
04-01-2011, 05:16 PM
You may copy/paste HardFX settings from one object to another under the File tab.

HardFX motion is not the same as merely moving the pivot point of an object. Basically, HardFX determines motion based on the shape of a specific mesh. So different meshes require different calculations.

Chrusion
04-01-2011, 07:43 PM
Ivé been hearing about that scene from time to time, but I havenīt seen the animation from it
Here is my original animation done back in 1997 or so...

http://chrusion.com/index.php/portfolio1/vfx/atomic-bomb
.

moussepipi2000
04-01-2011, 09:32 PM
not bad at all for 1997 !

JohnMarchant
04-02-2011, 12:45 AM
Here's a render i did earlier

prometheus
04-02-2011, 03:35 AM
If I was to, say, Build a spaceship object with 10 layers, and parent layers 2-9 of the ship to layer 1, and then instead of going through every single layer and applying hardFX to it to blow up the ship, I could (in theory) just apply hardFX to layer 1, right?

you can build your spaceship in layers, keep a copy of that, but I think you should merge/flatten the layers if possible, as long as the object parts arenīt welded together with the others, you can apply hardfx to the whole object.

You might want to change some hardfx settings so your object doesnīt affect eachother until collision of something.

so you donīt need layers to seperate partīs with hardfx.

Michael

prometheus
04-02-2011, 03:40 AM
Here is my original animation done back in 1997 or so...

http://chrusion.com/index.php/portfolio1/vfx/atomic-bomb
.


well yeah ..kinda nice, and quite good for geometry, but the limitations of
geometry kinda shines throu, especially if you look at the base stem and that there isnīt any hint of any whispy edge gas anywere, anyway quite good.

Michael

SonicN2O
04-02-2011, 07:24 AM
Okay then, how do u make rotating guns and stuff like that? What about a scene with 100 objects flying around that all need the same HFX settings? Is it supposed to be a pain to animate? sorry, I've thoroughly derailed this thread.

prometheus
04-02-2011, 07:51 AM
Okay then, how do u make rotating guns and stuff like that? What about a scene with 100 objects flying around that all need the same HFX settings? Is it supposed to be a pain to animate? sorry, I've thoroughly derailed this thread.

who said it would be easy:devil:

I havenīt really worked on a scene like that as you describe, and probably a few has.

And I donīt think Itīs such a good Idea trying to describe it here on forum threads.

I think you should look in to commercial training from guys who have done this in sci-fi shows like battlestar galactica..like "cat" kelly myers over at www.liberty3d.com...but I donīt know it those are still available.

or try kurv studios and Sean Jacksons explosion series whoīm also worked on galactica.

I havent seen any free ones, and It probably involves quite a bit of work to make it look smooth action with same settings.

You can alway clone hiearchyīs like an emitter with trails, like if you set up a null and add particle trail to that, you can clone it several times and then you need to individually move and target those, Missiles..thatīs one way, you can also clone whole object or spaceships with a complete hiearchy so you get the same particle settings in there and just select how many clones you want.

Michael

prometheus
04-02-2011, 07:54 AM
You can get some little insight from catīs youtube channel..
some excerpts from videos there..
http://www.youtube.com/user/battlestarvfx

Michael

prometheus
04-02-2011, 12:27 PM
I was in the mood for testing mushrooms again, not eating thou:)
so back to those..

Itīs really sweet to use VPR for this know, sample image attached..
maybe 5 sec to a decent refinement and maybe 15 for almost finished vpr preview.

a simple toroid object created in modeler and rigged with bones by drawing a disc and extracted a curve from that and used the convert to skelegons Inside Of modeler before converting to bones in layout
rotation is done by rotating the blue bank handles, Hypervoxels volume mode are applied to the toroids vertices.

a volumetric light is parented to the toroid for upper glow and the stem is particles following upwards and hypervoxels in sprite mode, a procedural texture is applied on the opacity channel to give a little more depth to it.

Just fooling around and testing, so thereīs a bit to improve on this, right now it has no good ground blast or begginning for the stem, and I am not satisfied either with both the stem or the mushroom top, and there are several types of how the glow could be set with the volumetric light and how much to affect of the top.

the animation runs to fast too, so Iīll have to change that.

Michael

JohnMarchant
04-11-2011, 09:16 AM
I was in the mood for testing mushrooms again, not eating thou:)
so back to those..

Itīs really sweet to use VPR for this know, sample image attached..
maybe 5 sec to a decent refinement and maybe 15 for almost finished vpr preview.

a simple toroid object created in modeler and rigged with bones by drawing a disc and extracted a curve from that and used the convert to skelegons Inside Of modeler before converting to bones in layout
rotation is done by rotating the blue bank handles, Hypervoxels volume mode are applied to the toroids vertices.

a volumetric light is parented to the toroid for upper glow and the stem is particles following upwards and hypervoxels in sprite mode, a procedural texture is applied on the opacity channel to give a little more depth to it.

Just fooling around and testing, so thereīs a bit to improve on this, right now it has no good ground blast or begginning for the stem, and I am not satisfied either with both the stem or the mushroom top, and there are several types of how the glow could be set with the volumetric light and how much to affect of the top.

the animation runs to fast too, so Iīll have to change that.

Michael

Very nice indeed Michael

kirkeric
04-11-2011, 09:36 AM
That looks great. I had posted on this a few months back and then I stumbled on this Turbulence, Fluid thing and came up with the attached.

It needs a lot of work but I thought I was making some progress at least.

I had to zip it because it was a wmv file.

Hope you enjoy it.

Eric


I was in the mood for testing mushrooms again, not eating thou:)
so back to those..

Itīs really sweet to use VPR for this know, sample image attached..
maybe 5 sec to a decent refinement and maybe 15 for almost finished vpr preview.

Michael

JohnMarchant
04-11-2011, 09:39 AM
Love to get hold of the scene file mate

kirkeric
04-11-2011, 09:43 AM
The pleasure would be mine if it helps ya. How best to get it to you?

I rarely have done the package thing but I'd be happy to figure it out - just want to be sure everything makes it through.

Thanks,

Eric


Love to get hold of the scene file mate

prometheus
04-11-2011, 10:51 AM
that scene can be nice kirkeric, thou you have some work left on it I suspect to get something like the terminator nuke.

Looks like aftereffects and particular for the missile trail there aint it?

some more effort on the initial heat glow and color correction and lastly the fluid sim needs a lot to improve on, but itīs a start as good as any.

I thought I could finish of my starter samples of the small nuke, but Ivé had a cold since friday, and just getting better now..so I think it will take another week to finish it off.

Michael

kirkeric
04-11-2011, 11:02 AM
Michael,

Thanks. Yes, I have a lot of work. As you may see by the date on the file, I've sort of let it rest for the last month. Sometimes a fresh view helps to make progress. lol

I did use After Effects and Particular for the trail, right off the Andrew Kramer tutorial of course. :)

The Terminator Nuke is what I'm ultimately striving for though. Need more dark smoke as well, working on figuring that out. I could also use a better view of the city and I think I will likely go with a much wider shot that requires less detail of buildings and I think that would sell better anyway. Then, there's the destruction trail which I've not even begun to figure out although, I layed in the Hiroshima image as the blast wave moves out.

Eric


that scene can be nice kirkeric, thou you have some work left on it I suspect to get something like the terminator nuke.

Looks like aftereffects and particular for the missile trail there aint it?


Michael

JohnMarchant
04-11-2011, 11:27 AM
The pleasure would be mine if it helps ya. How best to get it to you?

I rarely have done the package thing but I'd be happy to figure it out - just want to be sure everything makes it through.

Thanks,

Eric

Just Rar or zip it up and post it here under an attachment, see paperclip

prometheus
04-11-2011, 01:20 PM
voxels are fun again with VPR and especially to work in scene context, volumetric lights etc.

I took your clip and match a little to my nuke scene, but timing and some other stuff isnīt as it should be so I would probably have to redo a lot if I would continue to work with this terminator above nuke style.

using geometry ..a toroid and bones in a ring formation, that is so easy to control, and the volumetric light scatters nicely with the right settings on the voxels.

Granted I would really like to have a boost on the hypervoxels system, mainly getting the dynamite features with the fireshader and polyons and metaballs, and to further the whole hypervoxel experience, a true volumetric shader to apply to the whole object surface, not only vertices(implicit surface ala houdini) that would rock.

The base ground cloud is a simple dome geometry with hv sprites on it, as you can see the first step is only voxels applied, the second step is increased density and applied procedural on the color channel, no hypertextures used here.
the third step ..the geometry is normal displaced with dented procedural and you could choose to hide the geometry or as in this case I found that the displaced surface can give an interesting volumetric look combined with hv sprites.

some general shape and scale of the stem and mushroom top is really not as it should be here thou for the perfect look.

Just wanted to share basic principles here.
You could probably get more realistic stuff with fluids, but youll have to master that first.
a combination of all of this and fluids could also be interesting, perhaps setting particles on the mushroom toroid and let them paint the fluids, so you get drifting vapor gas sucked up together with the rotation of the mushroom.

Michael

SonicN2O
05-04-2011, 11:04 AM
sooo does is my scene any good? I can't get it to render because of my slow computer.

SonicN2O
05-07-2011, 08:39 AM
I forgot to upload it, didn't I:D
94980

prometheus
05-07-2011, 09:24 AM
canīt really tell, you have to render it out for us first:D
It is even slow on my machine..se my system specs under sign.

I can directly say that it is the particle emitters with the sprite fog that is the render time clogger here.

to many particles to wide spread out, and or to big Hypervoxels size.
You need to find a better balance between that, by setting lower particle amount and bigger hv size, or more particles with smaller hv size.

Cant really say anything else about it until we have a rendered sequence of it all.

You could deactivate the fog hv:s and render out only the mushroom cloud first with lights etc, and put the fog layer to work at night when you go to sleep.

Whatīs the mov clip you have attached? I couldnīt load it with my 64 installation, I could check with other lw versions of course.

Michael

Mr Rid
05-08-2011, 01:28 AM
AA and moblur-wise, the Classic cam renders HVs way faster than the Perspective.

Usually you only need low render Q.

The thing that is greatly slowing your render time is the 'Cloud' HVs are casting shadow on the 'Fog' HVs, which I dont think you need.

1000% lens flare seems overkill and is just blowing out the render for hundreds of frames of wasted HV render time. But I would leave the flare off while rendering low res tests, until you get the HVs doing what you want first. A big flare like this is usually preferable to render as a separate element to overlay and tweak in comp.

Dont know why you have fog enabled with a grey color over a black background. This will effectively just make all the HVs appear more grey, unless you are saving an alpha and are planning on comping this over a BG element with the same fog settings.

A faster rendering version, using these suggested changes-
94986

SonicN2O
05-08-2011, 09:40 AM
Cool, thanks for the help!

SonicN2O
05-08-2011, 01:13 PM
Hmmm... I'm looking at the two scenes... my "Explosion atmos" and JhonMarchant's "v-2" scene... v2 looks amazing until about frame 900, and my newer scene is closer to the effect a want to acheive, but I've noticed that the particles are moving a little too fast at the beginning...
Here's a faster rendering scene I made:
95003
P.S. I'm using the nuke scene from COD4 as my reference, where there is a very bright flash of light, dust particles sweep out and "carry" the lens flare, and the cloud stays put for about 2 min or so. What i'm trying to say here is that I need to fog to be very thick, so that's why it takes so long to render. I do deactivate the fog at times to focus on the could.

SonicN2O
06-25-2011, 08:52 PM
I wonder thou what you would say the advantages is to work with a donut wind compared to the technique of using geometry with voxels as in the popit nuke.. or as in the 24 nuke where jarrod davis used simple poly disc arranged in an array, and had dynamites voxels on that controlled with animation controllers.
You would loose the velocity from particles for sure.

using this geometry approach works with that A-bomb style perhaps with
Itīs mushroom top being a single shape rolling continuesly and slowly, but
it is harder to create smoke inside that top shape wich bulges and rises up
slowly within that.

Some nukes depicted donīt have that and some do, depends on what look you aim for.

The smaller bomb or stuff like car bombs are definatly material for fluids anyway.

Edit...In a interview with jarrod davis, he said that the fluids didnīt behave the way they wanted it to, so even if they had acess to dynamites fluids at that time,
he coose to not use it, only the particle voxels, but then again I donīt think dynamite had evolved enough at that time and I think It didnīt have the same control for the
fluids like turbulence has today.


Michael
http://vimeo.com/user680656/videos

yeah, I saw the video. How to you make the polys spin like that?

prometheus
06-26-2011, 06:02 AM
yeah, I saw the video. How to you make the polys spin like that?

Dont know exactly, I believe it was a couple of flat polys arrayed either in modeler or in layout and parented to a null or something with some rotation control.

I myself used a toroid, picked a whole edge loop around the toroid and created a curve from that, that curve was directly converted to skelegons inside modeler, and once converted to bones in Layout I could simple rotate the whole torus against Its internal axis by rotating the blue bank handles.

But Yeah It would be interesting to know, or try to find out if I had the time to check it.

Michael

SonicN2O
06-26-2011, 11:48 AM
Dont know exactly, I believe it was a couple of flat polys arrayed either in modeler or in layout and parented to a null or something with some rotation control.

:argue:
In english please...
:newhere:

SonicN2O
06-26-2011, 12:49 PM
just downloaded dynamite pro...
how do you install it?

erikals
06-26-2011, 12:51 PM
um,.. Dynamite?

prometheus
06-26-2011, 02:04 PM
just downloaded dynamite pro...
how do you install it?

The same way you install other plugins:jam: playing the soundtrack of Deliverance:foreheads

just copy the plugin to your plugins folder and add it through the add plugins menu, you canīt acess it any other way than go to the windows/volumetric and fog option and there in the pulldown menu you should have dynamite once installed.

You need to add a null first and in the dynamite tab add it as container,then you have to add the polys slightly different, dont remember right now.

Michael

prometheus
06-26-2011, 02:06 PM
um,.. Dynamite?

yeah..uhm.why on earth using that when we got turbulence, well the particle fireshader and the volumetric metaball blending and polyons(voxels adapting polysize and position)

Never tested the volumetric crt data that could be used within dynamite either.

Michael

SonicN2O
06-26-2011, 02:24 PM
yeah..uhm.why on earth using that when we got turbulence, well the particle fireshader and the volumetric metaball blending and polyons(voxels adapting polysize and position)

Never tested the volumetric crt data that could be used within dynamite either.

Michael

it's free.

prometheus
06-26-2011, 02:26 PM
it's free.

sorry...Oh...you ment free compared to turbulence, ..well that is no big deal, I rather buy turbulence than using the"Free" fluids inside dynamite, the particle fireshader is a different thing thou that doesnīt
exist in turbulence.

Michael

SonicN2O
06-26-2011, 02:28 PM
The same way you install other plugins:jam: playing the soundtrack of Deliverance:foreheads

just copy the plugin to your plugins folder and add it through the add plugins menu, you canīt acess it any other way than go to the windows/volumetric and fog option and there in the pulldown menu you should have dynamite once installed.

You need to add a null first and in the dynamite tab add it as container,then you have to add the polys slightly different, dont remember right now.

Michael

I'm using OSX, I scan for plugins on the dynamite file, but it doesn't find anything

prometheus
06-26-2011, 02:44 PM
I'm using OSX, I scan for plugins on the dynamite file, but it doesn't find anything

Mac? oh my..

did you download the mac version of it or what?

Michael

erikals
06-26-2011, 02:55 PM
- To install, extract all files in to your plugin folder
and Call 'utilities->add plugins' command in Layout

- You can access the dynamite interface from the Lightwave Volumetric Effects panel

try this......

SonicN2O
06-26-2011, 03:26 PM
Where's the plugins folder

erikals
06-26-2011, 04:02 PM
seriously?...

SonicN2O
06-26-2011, 04:20 PM
uh huh :(

SonicN2O
06-26-2011, 04:51 PM
OK here's the file I downloaded...

96201

What do I do with it?

stevecullum
06-26-2011, 05:04 PM
Using cracked software? No wonder you can't get it to work...probably bug ridden.

prometheus
06-26-2011, 06:13 PM
yepp..sonic, you should be careful to post that here, I donīt think that is
approved by the author of the software, or by newtek neither in the Newtek forum policies rules, and Dynamite has never been free except for the lite versions.

Now ...cantarcan himself would probably not show up or complain thou since he seemed to vanish without a trace from the net as I know of, and that without saying godbye to his purchasing customers.


I checked your zip file, and the archive itself contains zipped files, so you need to also extract those.

Michael

SonicN2O
06-26-2011, 06:26 PM
Oh... I had the impression that was free from the start. I'll PM SBowie, see if he can get it down. How much does dynamite cost if that's cracked? The original website was offline...

SonicN2O
06-26-2011, 06:31 PM
OK, just PM'd SBowie and asked him to take the link down... Sorry. I had the impression that dynamite was freeware.

SBowie
06-28-2011, 06:42 PM
Done.

SonicN2O
06-28-2011, 06:48 PM
OK... now that that's over with. (Thanks steve)
I made a doughnut, killed the polys, made a curve, converted that into skelegons, and then cvted those into bones. now my bones dont work. why?

prometheus
06-28-2011, 07:05 PM
OK... now that that's over with. (Thanks steve)
I made a doughnut, killed the polys, made a curve, converted that into skelegons, and then cvted those into bones. now my bones dont work. why?


why did you kill polys?
the route would be In modeler create a toroid, select the edge loop at the edge of the toroid, switch select to points, make closed curve from that, have polymode selection on while still having selected the curve, go to setup/more/convert skelegons...that will give you a circle of skelegons around the toroid.

once in layout convert to bones and make sure you have enable deform on for the bones.

donīt know what polys you kill or why, that shouldnīt be necessary.

Add hypervoxels directly to the toroids vertices..or in the toroids property panel, add a dynamic emitter to it.
Move the toroid up as you want it, rotate it by selecting all bones and rotate the blue bank handles.

You can also deform the toroid by displacing it, use deform and use normal displacement for the easiest deformation, add a procedural texture..that
way Itīs easier to see the rotation properly.


Michael

SonicN2O
06-29-2011, 01:15 PM
Yes, I did all that...
96274

stevecullum
06-29-2011, 01:39 PM
For fun, I had a go at doing this...here is my effort..

Shroom (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7547294/Shroom_V1a.mov)

Not amazing, but the technique would work well with more refinement...

SonicN20 - I can supply the scene files if your interested.

prometheus
06-29-2011, 01:40 PM
Yes, I did all that...
96274

If you have a scene only with particles, then you can post a lws scenefile, But you cant post a scenefile only without the geometry such as in this case.

save your object and lws scenefile in the same folder, right click that folder and zipp it, and upload.

Your scenefile is missing something as it is now:D

Michael

prometheus
06-29-2011, 01:46 PM
For fun, I had a go at doing this...here is my effort..

Shroom (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7547294/Shroom_V1a.mov)

Not amazing, but the technique would work well with more refinement...

SonicN20 - I can supply the scene files if your interested.

Very nice..the clips stop to early thou, and I would remove the camera shake completly, did you see the camera shake in Terminator?
And that shoot should be taken by air..not much of shockwaves...I think..hmm.

But your just playing arenīt you:D

So what did we use here..hmm..turbulence?

Michael

prometheus
06-29-2011, 01:50 PM
Hereīs a toroid object with skelegons, and also just a mushroom top LW scene rotated upward and normal displacement from the add dislpacement menu..not deform button as I mentioned earlier.


This was created with LW 10 ..hope that it works anyway.

Michael

prometheus
06-29-2011, 02:16 PM
Ohh..my zipped file has a dpont plugin texture for normal displacement, It is the windy wave texture...

http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/Textures.htm

download at upper left corner.

Michael

prometheus
06-29-2011, 02:18 PM
Ohh..my zipped file has a dpont plugin texture for normal displacement, It is the windy wave texture...

http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/Textures.htm

download at upper left corner.

Dam..double posting.

Michael

SonicN2O
06-29-2011, 02:31 PM
For fun, I had a go at doing this...here is my effort..

Shroom (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7547294/Shroom_V1a.mov)

Not amazing, but the technique would work well with more refinement...

SonicN20 - I can supply the scene files if your interested.

Dat some hot shtuff rit dere!

How'd you do that?

SonicN2O
06-29-2011, 02:33 PM
Almost forgot...
96280

prometheus
06-30-2011, 05:14 AM
Sonic..
Thatīs a large scale mushroom cloud object, I checked the object, the skelegons and bones are fine, but You have to change the bones fallof type to
inverse distance, right now itīs set to inverse 16, wich doesnīt affect the geometry anything it seems...so just change that and you should be up and running with a rotating mushroom.

Tip of the day to select all bones, where you have your view set like camera,left,right or perspective...you also have schematic..you middle mouse click and drag a rectangle over all the schematic buttons
marking the bones.

Michael

stevecullum
06-30-2011, 06:02 AM
But your just playing arenīt you

So what did we use here..hmm..turbulence?

Ya just messing about - :D

This is all Hypervoxels and this bone deforming techniques described here.

stevecullum
06-30-2011, 07:01 AM
Dat some hot shtuff rit dere!

How'd you do that?

Thanks - Feel free to pull the scene apart and learn from it...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7547294/MushroomCloud.rar

I did do a lot of stuff as a post effect (for speed), so not all you see in the movie file is from Lightwave, but the important stuff is there.

SonicN2O
07-04-2011, 03:21 PM
Thanks 4 the help prometheus, getting some AWESOME results with HV's, hope to share them soon...

SonicN2O
07-04-2011, 04:19 PM
Hot damn!
96426

SonicN2O
07-08-2011, 02:30 PM
...
I took promethius' advice. Now I should have a render soon now that my new computer's here.

prometheus
07-13-2011, 01:53 PM
Just a sample...I really didnīt set out to do it properly with the beginning and the blasting part..I might re do the whole thing If Iīm up to it and have the time.

thereīs room for a lof of changes and improvement of course, I just wanted to share the result of technique approached.

http://vimeo.com/26391236

Michael

KageRyu
07-14-2011, 08:10 PM
Another possibility for a simple nuke effect would be a modification of the old Explosion tutorial that once appeared in Lightwave User Magazine using cleverly textured spheres. Instead of starting the spheres at 0 scale in the center, go to the last frame you want tof rht explosion and "sculpt" the shape of the cloud out of your fireball textured spheres (I actually suggest 3 sphere groups with slightly different textures: Mushroom Cap, Mushroom Stem, and expansion ring). Set your keyframes, and then move backward along the timeline scaling the sphere's down and moving them inward. While not as dynamic as particle emitters or hypervoxels, this gives a great deal of control over the size, shape, and movement of the mushroom cloud. You can add further zip to it using some simple particle objects moving up and out as steamer particles (haze, dust, and clouds). You could also throw in lens flares and volumetric lights with some fractal noise textures if you like.

SonicN2O
07-16-2011, 08:07 AM
yeah, that might work. I just went camping and I payed special attention to the smoke from the campfire. I think fluids would be a good idea here. and now that I have my good computer, I can render a better resolution image. I'm currently rendering a video.

prometheus
07-16-2011, 08:25 AM
Personally I donīt like the geometry approach..I donīt think Ive seen any with that volumetric feel exactly, just my look at it.
not saying It cant be done thou.

Michael

SonicN2O
07-19-2011, 12:29 PM
I took a look at turbulence 4d... It's pretty cool, but is it that realistic?

prometheus
07-19-2011, 12:43 PM
I took a look at turbulence 4d... It's pretty cool, but is it that realistic?

well..If I recall right, jarrod davis who did the 24 nuke, said he tried may fluids ..but I think that was to drive lightwave particles, but that was to complicated and uncontrollable.

However using Maya fluids, fumefx, or turbulence fluids directly to acheive that look can certainly be done, but you need to learn how it behaves with forces,pressure,bouyance,gravity and a lot of other settings..but if you do learn it inside out Im sure you can get the most "realistic one" with fluids.

Jarrod also mentioned that fluids was to realistic and that wasnīt as cooperative as he wanted to stylize the nuke bomb.

He didnīt have that much time to do the shot either so He did what he does best, blending dynamite voxels, hypervoxels, some postprocessing and comping in a nice blend.

http://www.edgewise-media.com/qcr24mucl.html

I havenīt really explored turbulence fluids for just that mushroom look thou, Im still wrestling with ordinary explosion and testing..with the demo.
http://vimeo.com/26517295
http://vimeo.com/26391236

Michael

SonicN2O
07-26-2011, 12:03 PM
So Turbulence is worth buying? The student version is $143, so it's within my budget range, I just don't want to spend that kind of money if it's not really good.

prometheus
07-26-2011, 12:08 PM
So Turbulence is worth buying? The student version is $143, so it's within my budget range, I just don't want to spend that kind of money if it's not really good.

I think It looks pretty decent In Itīs current beta stage..and I have set aside som coins for the full version, I have seen a slow down in update versions thou from jawset..reason unknown, maybe heīs just to busy right now?

You have the demo...so try it out as much as you can before you decide.
Michael

SonicN2O
08-08-2011, 07:22 PM
oh yes, I got the trial verson and I am LOVING it. having some trouble with the particle resolution. I've got an idea, and i'll try it now... keep you posted; Sonic out. :D

SonicN2O
08-13-2011, 12:53 PM
Im sure you can get the most "realistic one" with fluids.

How would I go about doing that?

prometheus
08-13-2011, 06:55 PM
How would I go about doing that?

Learn the fluids inside out, or let someone do it for you, that Can do it.:)


I ment that I believe it can be done with the most realism within a fluids tool
but that needs someone who also understand how to use that plugin properly and how forces works etc.


Michael