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m1j
12-19-2010, 06:46 PM
Is there a plug-in that will create symmetrical polygons for an object in layout?

nickdigital
12-19-2010, 08:47 PM
I believe you can mirror a hierarchy. Is that what you're talking about?

probiner
12-19-2010, 08:54 PM
If it helps... http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105887
Check the video.

m1j
12-20-2010, 08:48 AM
I believe you can mirror a hierarchy. Is that what you're talking about?

I am not sure if that will do what I want but I will look at it. In Blender3D there is a modifier that will mirror the geometry of an object for render. It welds the two halves together so the normals are smoothed. When you edit the object you only get half. This is what I am looking for in Lightwave. I am working on a car and it is a lot of work making changes when I have to delete half the car, make the changes and then re-mirror in modeler.

probiner
12-20-2010, 09:26 AM
It can be done but i don't see that improving your model workflow. Maybe in CORE.

- Leave the Pivot at the origin and the half of the car to +X or -X.

- In Layout make a copy of the half and in Size (H) put -1 on the X.

But you will have to go to Layout and back to modeler to see it. VirtualMirror from TrueArt would work for you, but the copy is not Subpatched and with both solutions you will always have a seam in the middle. http://www.trueart.eu/?URIType=Directory&URI=Products/Plug-Ins/VirtualMirror

Cheers

nickdigital
12-20-2010, 10:45 AM
I am not sure if that will do what I want but I will look at it. In Blender3D there is a modifier that will mirror the geometry of an object for render. It welds the two halves together so the normals are smoothed. When you edit the object you only get half. This is what I am looking for in Lightwave. I am working on a car and it is a lot of work making changes when I have to delete half the car, make the changes and then re-mirror in modeler.

It sounds like you want instancing or how other programs deal with mirror/modeling workflow. LW doesn't have that. You stated you were looking for something in Layout which is what threw me off. But it sounds like you want something for Modeler.

The VirtualMirror that Probiner is pointing out might help but I believe that's only to see what the cage looks like in comparison to the subpatch model.

You could see if a script like this will help your workflow:
http://flay.com/GetDetail.cfm?ID=1200

You can adjust a model in symmetry mode though so there's no need to always delete half your model. As for geometry creation you might have to as I don't think you can generate geometry in symmetry mode...only adjust existing geometry.

Sensei
12-20-2010, 06:14 PM
But you will have to go to Layout and back to modeler to see it. VirtualMirror from TrueArt would work for you, but the copy is not Subpatched and with both solutions you will always have a seam in the middle.

Because there is no way to get how frozen sub-patch looks like in LWSDK for Modeler..

VirtualMirror *IS* specialized instancing plugin for Modeler. Geometry showed by it doesn't exist, is only in viewport.

m1j
12-20-2010, 06:44 PM
I wanted/needed it in Layout not Modeler. I was hoping for a custom object plug-in that would mirror and merge like blender does. So the only thing in modeler is the half. It sounds like I need to learn Lscript to build what I need. Thanks

Sensei
12-20-2010, 06:48 PM
Custom object class in Layout can only display in OpenGL things. It can't do anything with geometry.

Dexter2999
12-20-2010, 11:54 PM
Yeah, you can't change your car geometry in Layout.
Modeler is for building models, i.e. changing geometry.
Layout is for texture, camera, and lighting.

Also of note, Sensei is one of the best developers for LW. If he just told you that what you are talking about can't be done...that is probably the end of it. (Unless you are a clone of Denis Pontier...who knows how does the stuff he does?)

Sensei
12-21-2010, 02:53 AM
The only way to inject geometry in Layout is using volumetric plugin class. This way it'll be completely virtual. Appearing only at render time (it might not even take memory on render time). Custom object plugin class can be cheat to show it to user in viewport. Lscript cannot make volumetric plugin class though. It's the most demanding plugin class and require absolute speed. Volumetric evaluation is done every single ray is casted from camera to scene, from geometry to lights (as many times as light quality, which will f.e. area light quality 4 means 16 times (4*4 samples)), from geometry to scene (reflections, refractions, sss, any ray-tracing). I have not complex scenes where volumetric handler is evaluated more than 4 billion times per frame.

evenflcw
12-21-2010, 03:25 AM
Firstly. Tell us why you need it, and why other options are not sufficient. Then why you need it to work in this specific way.

UnCommonGrafx
12-21-2010, 04:46 AM
I, too, am curious as to your process because what you ask for doesn't compute.

"You only want work on half a car in layout. Somehow, you are MODELING in layout and making changes to the vehicle in that manner such that modeler won't give you what you want.
You are not modeling such that modeler and the symmetry mode won't work for you."

Is that a good summation of the problem?

Question here:
What are you doing?

lol
.

m1j
12-21-2010, 02:06 PM
Yes with some reading I have discovered what custom objects are and that they are not what I am looking for.

At the moment I modal half a car adding and removing polygons in modeler. Then I mirror and save. This updates Layout and then I render. The problem is if I need to make more major changes I have to delete half the car then make changes and re-mirror and save. I am trying to find a way to simplify this method. If there is a better method I will use it but from what I have read in this thread symmetrical mode only works on translating points not on creating or deleting.

What I envisioned was something that would dynamically mirror and weld inside layout or at render time so the model is maintained as only half so it can be easily modified.
If there is a tool that will do what I want while modeling including creating and deleting then I can use that.

Other programs have something like this so I was just expecting lightwave too as well.

nickdigital
12-21-2010, 02:15 PM
Nope. Welcome to the workflow of Lightwave. People either love it or hate it.

I would focus on getting your model as done as possible before going to the render portion. That's not to say that you can't render as you work. But going back and forth probably isn't the most efficient way to go.

If you're coming from a different 3d package then the split workflow is probably clumsy for you right now. Hopefully you'll get used to it.

UnCommonGrafx
12-21-2010, 02:25 PM
Hmm,
Try this:
- face the car down the Z axis.
- Make sure the car is perfectly in the middle. That is to say, the points on the left are in the exact same position on the right.
--One way to do this is to select everything on one side, press v (X selected, 0)then enter, then shift-v, n, spacebar.
- Turn on symmetry.

Is this not an acceptable mirrored workflow for a car?

If you have dual monitor setup, or creatively arrange windows on a singular setup, you can watch it render while you make changes in modeler to layout.

m1j
12-21-2010, 04:41 PM
Nope. Welcome to the workflow of Lightwave. People either love it or hate it.

I would focus on getting your model as done as possible before going to the render portion. That's not to say that you can't render as you work. But going back and forth probably isn't the most efficient way to go.

If you're coming from a different 3d package then the split workflow is probably clumsy for you right now. Hopefully you'll get used to it.

I agree. I started out with lightwave 1.0 and then went onto other programs. Now I move back and forth between LW 9/10 and a few others and sometimes it can get frustrating. Not that LW is bad but it is different but so was Blender and I am slowly learning how to use it.