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View Full Version : Upgrade to LW10 or ???



Triodin
12-15-2010, 08:31 AM
Finally got the cash to upgrade to LW 10, but I'm on the fence whether or not I should bite the bullet.

I want to eventually use it to make my own animated sci-fi web series - I'd be doing the whole shabang as a one man band.

I've already got 9.6 (working on a mac) and I'm trying to justify some of the new features of 10.

I'll never use the new virtual camera stuff, and the VPR is the same as Fprime (which is currently broke for mac *sadface*).

I already took some of the money and sat in on Kurv's last space explosion webinar (which was amazing) and I really want to learn some rigging, so I've been looking at either Rebel Hills Riggit or the training...

...or saving the money to buy a windows 7 license or even building a new non-mac machine so I can use some UV unwrap plugins...

...or getting Painter 11 so I can make some neat natural media textures for my models...

The list goes on...

What would you do if you had $500 to put towards your 3d pipeline?

MAUROCOR
12-15-2010, 08:52 AM
Finally got the cash to upgrade to LW 10, but I'm on the fence whether or not I should bite the bullet.

I want to eventually use it to make my own animated sci-fi web series - I'd be doing the whole shabang as a one man band.

I've already got 9.6 (working on a mac) and I'm trying to justify some of the new features of 10.

I'll never use the new virtual camera stuff, and the VPR is the same as Fprime (which is currently broke for mac *sadface*).

I already took some of the money and sat in on Kurv's last space explosion webinar (which was amazing) and I really want to learn some rigging, so I've been looking at either Rebel Hills Riggit or the training...

...or saving the money to buy a windows 7 license or even building a new non-mac machine so I can use some UV unwrap plugins...

...or getting Painter 11 so I can make some neat natural media textures for my models...

The list goes on...

What would you do if you had $500 to put towards your 3d pipeline?


It is totally personal but once you are asking... I would buy LW 10. Donīt forget that CORE is included in this package too (you would get it later but who cares?).
And classic LW 10 is very good at this point.
But thing carefully, at the end of the day it is your money and your choise.:D

cresshead
12-15-2010, 09:03 AM
from my point of view i think VPR is the main reason to have lw10.

the time i spend [waste] waiting for a low res un antialised render to kick out just to see a tiny tweek in lighting or surfacing soon adds up to days and weeks...

Having VPR for a 1 man operation with no render farm on hand is an amazing update, and note VPR IS the renderer...not a hand me down bit of a renderer.

if VPR was the only update..it's worth the cash.

as for painter...there's open source option that does most/all of what painter offers and cost $0.00
re a new pc...VPR is like having a 20 cpu farm for nr live rendered previews of your scene.

Rayek
12-15-2010, 09:22 AM
No-one but you can answer that question for you ;-) It all depends on what you REALLY NEED at this point. It sounds like you are still learning, and not quite into real production, correct? So investing some of that money in more training might work best for you.

Yours seems to be a classic case of "I got some money, and I cannot decide what to get" - which seems to indicate there is nothing on that list you actually are in dire need to get to be able to do whatever you must do at the moment. And yes, Christmas time might have something to do with that feeling :-)

I would say: keep your money safe for now, and work with the tools you have. And to make this decision easier, let's strike a couple of items off your list, and save that money:

- great unwrapping tools: get Blender. Awesome unwrapping tools.
- natural media textures:
mypaint: http://mypaint.intilinux.com/
Expression 3.3 Excellent Painter-like vector based painting app. Still a free download, if you know where to get it.
http://www.microsoft.com/expression/expression-design/download.aspx
Krita http://www.koffice.org/krita/

And instead of buying a complete new machine for just unwrapping software, I would suggest downloading VirtualBox for the mac, and install an old copy of WindowsXP in it. Easier, cheaper, and more convenient. It will run Windows apps in a window on your mac desktop.
http://www.virtualbox.org/

geo_n
12-15-2010, 10:11 AM
I would buy a pc not just for uv plugins but for versatility especially in 3d work. Wait for lw 10 release and download the trial.

Dexter2999
12-15-2010, 10:30 AM
LW10 is great but if you are wanting to do a one man show...

What are you using for compositing? Do you have EXR trader and Janus?
Or are you thinking you are going to do it in one render? Are you maxed out on RAM? Could you use that money to upgrade the CPU on your computer?

How are your rigging and animation skills? Could you use Maestro? or TAFA?

What are you using for audio editing? What are you using to create music? Do you have a sound FX library?

Just throwing out there that if you want to do a proper series there is more to it than just LW10. That money could do you more good in other respects.

My two cents.

Rayek
12-15-2010, 11:05 AM
Ha, ha, just as I thought - as many different suggestions as there are answers. If you don't get the question right, don't expect a right answer. :-)

Triodin
12-15-2010, 11:48 AM
Question to those working with LW10 - is VPR working right now in Layout? Or just CORE? Any word how it's working on OSX?

Loving all the input all - I need as many points of view as possible so I can actually get some focus in what I should be doing!

Dexter2999
12-15-2010, 11:57 AM
LW10 should be out in the next two weeks. Just hang on a little and get the demo to see if it is a "must have".

cresshead
12-15-2010, 12:44 PM
yes [now just drop in the right question!]

OnlineRender
12-15-2010, 01:35 PM
there is other software that can do VPR , but I think Matts video blew the rest away . " funny how he got the job :rock: 'time re-mapping' cough

you have $500 gamble it and put it on a 3-1 shot :) kidd'in

go

#ArtRage $30
#Blender: Free
#Gimp : Free
#3DC :3D-Coat V3, Full Professional version is currently sold at the price of $349, while #Educational version - at $99*. Upgrade from V2 to V3 offered at a reduced price of #60$

or try Sculptris but the dev is away to Zbrush
Video editing : Avid FreeDV : Free ' there is others '

still got $100 for strippers ROCK 'n' ROLL :2guns:

Dexter2999
12-15-2010, 01:49 PM
still got $100 for strippers ROCK 'n' ROLL :2guns:


::erm:: I prefer to call them "muses"

Kuzey
12-15-2010, 01:51 PM
Question to those working with LW10 - is VPR working right now in Layout? Or just CORE? Any word how it's working on OSX?

Loving all the input all - I need as many points of view as possible so I can actually get some focus in what I should be doing!


yes [now just drop in the right question!]

That's not a yes to the above question is it..haha.

I would think Newtek would release something that is equal on the two OS's...unlike 9.6, which was released in a buggy/unfinished state on the Mac side.



LW10 should be out in the next two weeks. Just hang on a little and get the demo to see if it is a "must have".

Ah...yes the demo, will there be a demo when LW10 is released? I do remember that the download-able 9.+ demo took ages to get ready.

Kuzey

Triodin
12-15-2010, 01:57 PM
I would think Newtek would release something that is equal on the two OS's...unlike 9.6, which was released in a buggy/unfinished state on the Mac side.


That's also one of my main reasons for prompting this discussion - as I feel like I need to make the switch to PC to really get off the ground.

For example, I researched Janus because of the helpful recommendation and it's PC only...

Really these posts are cathartic for me to get enough ammo to finally jump off OSX!

OnlineRender
12-15-2010, 01:57 PM
::erm:: I prefer to call them "muses"

I call them tax-deductible .

to above post : dual boot . I am correct that same dongle works on mac and pc ?.

and yes PC is probably most productive , but getting 'off the ground' has no relevance to software ,that is bound by the artist .

LInux FTW , blender , core LW10 ,3DC ,sorted .

Kuzey
12-15-2010, 02:04 PM
That's also one of my main reasons for prompting this discussion - as I feel like I need to make the switch to PC to really get off the ground.

For example, I researched Janus because of the helpful recommendation and it's PC only...

Really these posts are cathartic for me to get enough ammo to finally jump off OSX!

Yeah...don't you just hate that :D

If you have an intel Mac, you could always install one of the Win OS's.

Kuzey

hrgiger
12-15-2010, 02:04 PM
Personally I think LW10 is a good gamble. I have my complaints but you have to look at it in the long term big picture view. If you pass up 10 and later decide to get Lightwave after all, you're going to pay $200 more per upgrade. Buying Lightwave now will lock your upgrade price for the next 5 versions at $495. If you wait, upgrades will be $695 plus the initial outlay is more as well. As someone else mentioned, CORE is included and you will also get a hardcore membership which will allow you additonal builds of Lightwave 10 as well as beta builds of LW 11 which will help you make an informed decision if you want to upgrade at that point.
I am more interested in CORE, but VPR as well as the new linear colorspace workflow in 10 are both great additions to the Lightwave pipeline.

cresshead
12-15-2010, 02:11 PM
http://tv.newtek.com/player.php?recordID=63

if your after a Painter type app but have ZERO cash..
http://mypaint.intilinux.com/

http://mypaint.intilinux.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/Brushes.png

Triodin
12-15-2010, 02:22 PM
Cress, that's amazing... Gonna download that now!!

Rayek
12-15-2010, 03:22 PM
Hey! I already mentioned Mypaint! Sigh... Should've added some nice looking fantasy girl picture like Cress did. Pictures talk more than words. ;-)

However, yes, Mypaint is awesome. Maybe you should get a Wacom tablet for that money, if you haven't got one already, that is. Mine seems to be at a breaking point (literally, it's 15 years old), and keeps shutting off and on all the time. Probably a cable break.

As far as the Mac<--> Windows issue goes, I have used both throughout my 'computing career', and always felt more 'free' in my software choice when dealing with MS's platform than Stevie's OS. Especially when dealing with 3d creation. Or games (but that's another story altogether).

So, I have changed my mind on what you should get for that cash: get a Wacom. A nice big 'une. And MyPaint, of course. Sculpting really benefits from these tablet thingies as well.

Triodin
12-15-2010, 06:27 PM
Hey! I already mentioned Mypaint! Sigh... Should've added some nice looking fantasy girl picture like Cress did. Pictures talk more than words. ;-)


This is true - LOL!!!!


So, I have changed my mind on what you should get for that cash: get a Wacom. A nice big 'une. And MyPaint, of course. Sculpting really benefits from these tablet thingies as well.

Also a fantastic idea - anyone using LW with a tablet and swear buy it?

Triodin
12-15-2010, 06:41 PM
Holy crap, was trying to figure out how to install mypaint for mac and it reads like an act of congress... one more nail in the Mac coffin...

silviotoledo
12-15-2010, 06:54 PM
Lightwave 10 have no more than 9.6 with a beautier interface and VPR :). Anyway I think 10.X will be the most advanced lightwave versions once CORE is in development and the new SDK comes. So, you must buy LW 10 so, you will get low cost upgrade for a near future.

cresshead
12-15-2010, 07:03 PM
Hey! I already mentioned Mypaint! Sigh... Should've added some nice looking fantasy girl picture like Cress did. Pictures talk more than words. ;-)

However, yes, Mypaint is awesome. Maybe you should get a Wacom tablet for that money, if you haven't got one already, that is. Mine seems to be at a breaking point (literally, it's 15 years old), and keeps shutting off and on all the time. Probably a cable break.

.

opps!..sorry to steal your thunder but as you pointed out a pikky gets people's attention!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TOHTDsQ7iR4/TCTrTlCzNmI/AAAAAAAABvc/qsSBZOuBAYo/s640/blender_sculpt.jpg

blender book info
http://blenderfoundations.com/

http://www.blender.org/

you can learn Blender via youtube vids - just use the blender 2.5 vids to keep what you learn only on the current version (2.5) not the older one [2.4x]

also blender cookie
http://www.blendercookie.com/

http://www.blendercookie.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/luxrender_25_intro.png

http://www.blendercookie.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/header_e.jpg

personally i'd concentrate Blender learning to Basic user interface, sculpting, maybe rigging/animating....don't bother with rendering or modeling much as lightwave is much simpler/full featured [i believe]
and the import export of MDD file to move character animation from blender over to lw to render/set scenes up.

that should give you enough to learn for 2011 for nr zero cost!
might be useful to get that blender book for a leg up.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51BoB-m-Q-L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Blender-Foundations-Essential-Guide-Learning/dp/0240814304

The Dommo
12-15-2010, 07:04 PM
I have a trusty Intuos 2 A4 size from 2002, still going strong (Wacom stuff is bullet and coffee proof), plus an Intuos 3 A5 size, which I gt in 2006, again still absolutely perfect.

The first time I saw a tablet used ws on a work placement in 2001 using 3DS Max, and I was like... "cool... but wierd...." but decided ni the end I needed one, and never looked back since.

You can work faster and more fluidly even in apps that only use the tablet as a cursor controller and nothing more eg. Lightwave - and then any paint and sculpt stuff is just wonderful. I've seen and used other people's cheap Wacom wannabes, and nothing else comes close to the accuracy or reliability of a Wacom.

cresshead
12-15-2010, 07:29 PM
so...re cap time!

lightwave 10 - for interactive lighting, texture/surface editing in a nr live rendered environment plus other goodies...like...shhhhh! :devil:

my paint - for 2d painting [free]

a cheap wacom bamboo medium or similar for sculpting/painting...don't go mad on the wacom range...keep it low budget for your first tablet.:thumbsup:

blender 2.55 - for sculpting, compositing etc. [free]
..maybe a current version blender book Ģ17.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Z1eU1QfbL._AA300_.jpg

geo_n
12-15-2010, 07:36 PM
A tablet in layout with many objects and animation is a nightmare in lw. Try clicking a bone in a character. Just a hint.
Generally I use my tablet when I need to rest my hand from the mouse.
Besides waiting for lightwave 10 demo download, I would also wait till the new Intel sandy chips arrive. They should be cheaper and faster. Can't go wrong with pc base as more software and plugins are supported.

bazsa73
12-15-2010, 11:47 PM
dont buy anything, it's a modern disease thinking that buying something will solve our problems

Rayek
12-15-2010, 11:52 PM
dont buy anything, it's a modern disease thinking that buying something will solve our problems

Second that! The more stuff we acquire, the unhappier and more stressed we become.

CaptainMarlowe
12-16-2010, 12:10 AM
Here's my feeling, but it's maybe worthless as I'm not a professionnal but just an "enlightened hobbyist".
I'm a Mac user. I joined the LW10 beta a few weeks ago and I'm very glad I did. Let's just say that I don't use 9.6 (nor 9.6.1) anymore and that I greatly improved my workflow without bootcamping.


Edit :
As for getting MyPaint, in my experience, trying using Macports is a very painful process (I did that to try to get KDenLive). What I finally did to get access to linux applications has been to install VirtualBox (free alternative to Parrallel Desktops or WMware Fusion) and launch Ubuntu from Mac OS X.
Way quicker and easier.

Dexter2999
12-16-2010, 12:34 AM
Do you have to install anything to run Ubuntu? I thought you could just boot it straight from a CD ROM.

CaptainMarlowe
12-16-2010, 12:58 AM
Yes you can, or from a usb drive, but it won't save your settings, and you won't install lots of apps.
It's always better to get on your HD, and then you can use all it's possibilities (which are great).
I have a netbook for my constant trips, and it runs under Ubuntu (allthough I'm thinking to switch to Fedora... not that I need it, but it's always difficult to keep the geek inside asleep...).
Except at work, I haven't used Windows in years.

OnlineRender
12-16-2010, 03:52 AM
Do you have to install anything to run Ubuntu? I thought you could just boot it straight from a CD ROM.

I run it straight off my USB Stick .

but yes you can run it direct from CD .

but most people partition there drive install and run win and ubuntu ,with the option to boot up any OS at the start.

geo_n
12-16-2010, 04:05 AM
How do ubuntu users run lightwave with a dongle????

OnlineRender
12-16-2010, 04:13 AM
dont honestly know atm , I belive Core works in Linux , dont know about lw10 and I dont know if its even uses the dongle or if its registry files ,

but it works the excact same way as any other platform , mac win , plug in your dongle :)

geo_n
12-16-2010, 04:24 AM
I ask because I see some lightwave users with linux only os.
As for lw 10, nothings changed. layout and modeller doesn't support linux officially. Only core will.

cresshead
12-16-2010, 05:45 AM
dont buy anything, it's a modern disease thinking that buying something will solve our problems

hey there, you finally got to use that ice world prison communicator?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_USC-UWiw_Bk/TEWlzL4hEqI/AAAAAAAAFNE/-C9mGzykKGc/s1600/RuraPentheMine2293.jpg

don't let this guy fool ya...he's a shape shifter!...some times he thinks that owning stuff is simply terrible...other times he shifts he opinion and has a splurge on amazon.com:lol:

oh and sometimes he's...a she!

http://www.startrek.com/legacy_media/images/200307/gal-mov-vi-02/320x240.jpg

alchemy
http://features.cgsociety.org/stories/2010_12/alice/images/03-alice-makingof02_alchemy.jpg

mypaint>>
http://features.cgsociety.org/stories/2010_12/alice/images/08-alice-makingof-screenshotmypaint.jpg