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Rayek
12-04-2010, 01:53 PM
Just a heads up: I bought a 480gtx a week ago to improve both my viewports performance in the 3d apps I am using (Blender, Lightwave, C4d, etc), and to increase the rendering performance of Octane.

Octane flies. The viewport performance is... dismal. Worse than a two generation older 9800gtx card. I couldn't believe it at first, and tried installing the newest drivers, then older drivers, next community optimized drivers - nothing worked. Hiccups, pauses, and other performance problems ensued: in Blender it's almost unworkable.

Obviously, I went online for a solution. There is none. Nvidia remains silent on this issue, and Max, Maya, Rhino, and other users experience the same issues. Cinema4d and Modo users seem to be part of the lucky ones, since they are less affected. Still, I was working on a client project this week (xfrog related) in C4d, and I also experienced slow downs and pauses in that app.

It turns out that Nvidia crippled their new line, either through the drivers (most probable) or by hardware, to "motivate" 3d content creators to use their Quadros. They even mentioned that the new 4xx consumer level cards are game optimized, not 3d app optimized. That's a belligerent understatement. It's truly horrendously bad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_400_Series#OpenGL_Problems

So I am going to RMA my card, if I still can, and get an ATI - I've heard their driver issues are a thing of the past for the most part.

I do understand that this constitutes a 'business' decision by Nvidia, and legally they aren't doing anything wrong; ethically, however, I cannot find a justification for this kind of behaviour towards their loyal customer base, and seeing their stubborn silence on this issue, I feel somewhat gutted at the moment. (I did post a support question to Nvidia, but no answer!) These are expensive cards, and although I never expect the same performance as a Quadro, they have gone one step too far (I am certainly not the only one who thinks so).

I thought I would post this warning here for everyone thinking about getting a 4xxx line card - get an ATI, cheap Quadro or FireGL one, or a cheap Quadro for the viewport performance and a 4xx for CUDA rendering, if required.

prometheus
12-05-2010, 07:00 AM
I got the gtx 480 zotac card, donīt see anything wrong with it, I think it rocks..still have to test octane render thou.

What is it about the viewports that are so bad?

and what other system specs do you have? too little memory can also be lagging viewport performance.

Michael

lardbros
12-05-2010, 07:06 AM
ATI drivers still aren't great for opengl... technically the cards are great, and good value for money, also great for directx, but for opengl they aren't brill. Maybe their pro-end cards are better, and have better driver support, but my 4670 1gb is appallingly bad with opengl... :(

kosmodave
12-05-2010, 11:45 AM
Using a GigaByte GTX470 here without any issues that I'm aware of, and it simply rocks with the Adobe CS5 suite.

Dave

Rayek
12-05-2010, 11:08 PM
I got the gtx 480 zotac card, donīt see anything wrong with it, I think it rocks..still have to test octane render thou.

What is it about the viewports that are so bad?

and what other system specs do you have? too little memory can also be lagging viewport performance.

I noticed less of a problem in Lightwave - though in Blender and Maya it's very problematic. For example, I can hardly work in Blender, because every time I switch to a different part, there is a pause, click a control, pauses, grab the widget there might be a break in the flow. Cinema4d also introduced pauses when dealing with the viewport, though it is not as bad as the others. In my case Lightwave modeler runs just as fast (or slow) as with the previous card - no discernible improvement compared to the 280GTX. Same in Cinebench, which seems odd: shouldn't the new 480 (which is supposed to run about twice as fast, result in an improved viewport experience? That, at least, has been my prior experience, until this week.

It depends on the software people are using. If you are using Max, Maya, Rhino and/or Blender, you are out of luck. I never had these problems when using the 280GTX.

Other system specs: 12GB ram, i7 [email protected] So no, there's no bottleneck there, I think.



Using a GigaByte GTX470 here without any issues that I'm aware of, and it simply rocks with the Adobe CS5 suite.

Yes, it does, doesn't it? No problems in that regard either. Feels better than the older card. Premiere seems to render a lot faster. So does Octane - but that is Cuda based. But it seems Nvidia crippled the Cuda performance as well (read below), and it could have been much better. Though I do not mind in this case, because it is still 40% faster than the previous generation - you get what you pay for.


I haven't seen anything really conclusive on this. Got more concrete info other than that tiny blurb on Wikipedia?

I know a few modo users who're getting really great performance from the 480s.

Again, Modo users (I have read) don't seem to have any (major) issues.

Other info you requested:

Sumit Gupta, who is a Senior Product Manager in the CUDA group at NVIDIA implies that the 480 is very much reduced in cuda performance by design to sell their tesla cards:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=165055

Similar issues for opengl related performance:
Crippled OpenGL performance comparison with previous 285gtx generation:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=166757
http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=284014&page=1
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=181574


ATI drivers still aren't great for opengl... technically the cards are great, and good value for money, also great for directx, but for opengl they aren't brill. Maybe their pro-end cards are better, and have better driver support, but my 4670 1gb is appallingly bad with opengl...

It's unfortunate. I just read a 3d world review of the FireGL and Quadro line-ups, and it seems the mid-range (still affordable) V7800 does a great job. Even the low-range cheapest FireGL V5800 is faster than the (most expensive) Quadro 5000 in Cinebench and Max (Nvidia doesn't offer drivers for that yet, according to the same article).

Though other users on the Blender forums have had great results with ATI consumer cards, which seem to run circles around the newer 4xx cards in Blender's viewport. I don't know - I haven't used ATI consumer cards for years, after having heaps of trouble in Messiah and other opengl apps.

Conclusion: it is a rather confusing situation, and your results depend on the software you are running. The 4xx line, though, is a bit of a mess for Nvidia, in my opinion, in more ways than just the power drain and heat produced.

geo_n
12-05-2010, 11:11 PM
Are you using direct3d? It is a gaming card and optimized for direct3d.
Card might be defective too.

Rayek
12-05-2010, 11:21 PM
Are you using direct3d? It is a gaming card and optimized for direct3d.
Card might be defective too.

That's the silly thing - I tried running games, and they work great. But the really odd thing is that a lot of Max users have complained about the dreadful viewport performance, and that is direct3d as well, as far as I know. Then again, even the Quadros performed really bad in comparison with the Firegl cards in both Cinebench and Max (according to the 3d world #136 roundup).

I do not think the card is defective. I should not be able to run games well, or Octane, for that matter. My rig runs stable, no other screen issues, just those very specific problems. The above issues have been reported my many users, not just me - I found out about the issues when I experienced them right from the bat, and did some cursory googling.

If the symptoms are all the same for all the patients, it must be the same disease. Or something ;-) All max, blender, rhino, maya users seem to run into the same problems. Some don't push the envelope as much in their software, and/or might not be aware yet that the performance has dropped in comparison with their older cards. (A couple of accounts I read are from users who switched from 9800gtx cards, and got the SAME performance as their two generations older cards)

Rayek
12-08-2010, 12:55 PM
Update: I returned the 480gtx, and exchanged it for a more inexpensive ati 5870. I had read good things about modding the 5870 into a FirePro v8000, and low and behold: after tinkering around for a few hours, I got the drivers working perfectly well!

Cinebench's opengl score got a boost of about 50% (48-->70) compared to the 480, no lagging, pauses or hiccups in any 3d app, Blender's viewport and controls feel smooth as silk on a dual 1920*1200 screen setup (about two-three times as fast now as compared to the 280gtx) and (strangely enough) text display is much improved compared to the Nvidia cards.

Modeler's opengl still sucks - but I expected as much. Still, it also got a bit of a boost.

Minor problem: youtube videos display only green, and I had to turn off hardware acceleration. Vimeo does not have that problem.

And, obviously, I shed some tears over the loss of Octane, but I don't really render in Octane a lot, so it is bearable (for now). :-(