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Ulven
12-03-2010, 03:34 PM
http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/index.html

pmG has recently released the fifth major version of it's flagline software messiah:studio.
Among the new features include:
-Sketch mode, draw directly on top of your 3d scene to give comments and feedback to animators, or sketch out your blocking animation before you start working.
-OpenGL displacements, so you may view your displacement maps as you animate.
-DelayPoints, A new modifier which can be used to delay the deformation of points, creating a cartoony motion blur effect.
-Hair Glue: A new Messiah effect for easily locking hair guides to geometry without needing them to be deformed by bones. (works with lightwave guides for use with fiberfx / sas)
-Dynamic render: Interactive preview renderer.
-Particle and Hair guide instancing: Allows render time instances to be efficiently placed on particles or follow hair guides and dynamics.
-SuperLattice: Allows you to fully drive one mesh with another. Proprietary method doesn’t require points to be inside of the lattice object to be affected; and the lattice object can be almost any polygonal object.
-Improved Softbody dynamics: Collision detection and weighting/pinning of vertices have been greatly improved.

Read more on http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/index.html

jasonwestmas
12-03-2010, 03:53 PM
Very cool! Gotta try this stuff out some time. Thanks!

jasonwestmas
12-03-2010, 04:04 PM
Has its own dynamic previews too.

http://setuptab.com/index.php?topic=2398.0

nickdigital
12-03-2010, 04:13 PM
The sketch mode is very very cool.

zarti
12-03-2010, 06:30 PM
oh , that;s so sweeet ! love Messiah .

really cool update and great job , btw






.cheers

Nicolas Jordan
12-03-2010, 08:58 PM
Looks like that interface flickering that really should have been fixed years ago is finally fixed. :) I really don't see why it took this long to fix a huge problem like this that has been a pain for Windows Vista and Windows 7 users. Did Microsoft or Nvidia make some changes that allowed for PMG to suddenly be able to fix this problem? I highly doubt it. :devil:

jasonwestmas
12-03-2010, 09:19 PM
Looks like that interface flickering that really should have been fixed years ago is finally fixed. :) I really don't see why it took this long to fix a huge problem like this that has been a pain for Windows Vista and Windows 7 users. Did Microsoft or Nvidia make some changes that allowed for PMG to suddenly be able to fix this problem? I highly doubt it. :devil:

I can understand the resistance to vista but now that 7 is out, it's the standard now for what I can see.

geothefaust
12-03-2010, 11:54 PM
The Dynamic update render is really, really awesome. It's quite fast and... Works with everything in Messiah including particles, GI, etc.. Quite a nice addition. Easily quelched any thoughts in my head about updating to LW10. :p

cresshead
12-04-2010, 03:35 AM
this vid knocked my socks off!
easy as photo real as AVatar

http://www.usefulslug.com/files/Xerxestest5.mov

Nicolas Jordan
12-04-2010, 11:51 AM
Everything in messiah 5 looks pretty cool but the fact that messiah Basic still exists really doesn't make any sense to me. I think there should just be one version of messiah period. In an age of multi processor computing being limited to 2 cores for rendering just sounds totally crazy.

jasonwestmas
12-04-2010, 11:59 AM
Everything in messiah 5 looks pretty cool but the fact that messiah Basic still exists really doesn't make any sense to me. I think there should just be one version of messiah period. In an age of multi processor computing being limited to 2 cores for rendering just sounds totally crazy.

It's for people that just want the animation tools.

The Dommo
12-04-2010, 03:41 PM
Wow, cool!
Seeing as they were on 2.5 for so long, they are really baning out the version now!!

Ulven
12-05-2010, 06:23 AM
this vid knocked my socks off!
easy as photo real as AVatar

http://www.usefulslug.com/files/Xerxestest5.mov

*giggles* thank you very much!

UnCommonGrafx
12-05-2010, 07:56 AM
I like everything about that clip accept that he goes cross-eyed at the end. That's creepy.

The skin and all are Boss!

The Dommo
12-05-2010, 10:48 AM
*giggles* thank you very much!

It's true - that animation was pretty stonking.

It said it was rendered in Messiah... I assume all the animation was Messiah too?

Greenlaw
12-05-2010, 03:05 PM
I upgraded to MessiahStudio 5 Pro the other day to take advantage of the 'limited time' offer, and finally got to play around with it this afternoon. I have to admit, I haven't spent a lot of time with Messiah, but in just fooling around with it for a couple of hours today, I'm very impressed with it.

Argh! I tempted to switch to mS5 for our current short film project, but we're already so far along with our current 'iPi-Animeeple-LW' workflow (not to mention, weeks behind schedule,) that it would be pure craziness to even think about it. :)

We're definitely using mS5 for our next film project though. Our current film is mostly animated using experimental 'homebrew' mocap, but we've already decided that our next one will be all keyframe animation.

G.

erikals
12-05-2010, 10:08 PM
...have you considered a Rhiggit /Maestro combo?

Greenlaw
12-05-2010, 11:42 PM
Yes. In fact, our unfinished film RVJ is mostly animated using Maestro. That project got shelved way back when 1.) one of the Lightwave updates broke Maestro's performance and it became less fun to animate with, and 2.) our daughter was born. The Lightwave-Maestro issue eventually got fixed, but the daughter issue is still being worked on. :)

When we finish the Brudders movie, we're actually revisiting RVJ, which I now feel should be better animated, and I did consider reanimating with Maestro or switching to Rhiggit. Or...I could switch to Messiah. Now, I don't own Rhiggit, but I do own a license of Messiah which, I'm embarrassed to say, I've had for many years but barely touched, so this new release seems like good opportunity to start using it.

Since a good portion of RVJ is already animated using Maestro, I'll probably wind up keeping some of the current Maestro animation, and reanimating parts of it and finishing the rest using Messiah.

But first we have to finish what we're working on now. (End of long unnecessary story which probably should have ended with the first word.)

G.

erikals
12-05-2010, 11:50 PM
yes, it sure takes time figuring all of these things out :]

it's getting there though, it's interesting how these new applications and plugins are coming along :]

ey, btw, you might be interested in this link... :]
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114731

 

Phil
12-06-2010, 12:55 AM
On Mac, it appears to be totally unusable/unreliable based on the forum postings. That's a real shame, and the lack of any ability to use the license under both Windows and Mac means that you are totally knackered if Messiah stops playing ball under OS X for whatever reason of the month has surfaced.

It's a shame. I tried the 4.5 demo and it wouldn't work for me.

cresshead
12-06-2010, 03:31 AM
I upgraded to MessiahStudio 5 Pro the other day to take advantage of the 'limited time' offer, and finally got to play around with it this afternoon. I have to admit, I haven't spent a lot of time with Messiah, but in just fooling around with it for a couple of hours today, I'm very impressed with it.

Argh! I tempted to switch to mS5 for our current short film project, but we're already so far along with our current 'iPi-Animeeple-LW' workflow (not to mention, weeks behind schedule,) that it would be pure craziness to even think about it. :)

We're definitely using mS5 for our next film project though. Our current film is mostly animated using experimental 'homebrew' mocap, but we've already decided that our next one will be all keyframe animation.

G.


off topic, but what's your assessment of the 'home brew' motion capture now you've used it as i'm looking at the microsoft kinect - mo cap option for 2011 or maybe the ps3 camera option if the kinect version doesn't arrive, i'd be using it with 3dsmax to load bvh data onto a biped.

i see your going to keyframe your next project rather than mocap, is that for artistic reasons?

Greenlaw
12-06-2010, 09:57 AM
Hi Cresshead,

It's going well. I started this thread which may answer your question in more detail. If not, you can ask me specifics there: iPi Studio Desktop Motion Capture Tests (http://newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114498&highlight=ipi)

Cool thing about the recent build of iPi DMC is that it supports six Playstation 3 Eye cameras. I just got cameras 5 and 6 and I hope to try them out this week. BTW, the upcoming Express version will support a single Kinect camera.

As for the decision to go keyframe with the next project, it was artistic. The project was designed as a keyframe project so I want to finish it that way. My wife thinks we should mocap it though just to get it done. She's probably right, but I REALLY WANT TO KEYFRAME THIS ONE. (Okay, maybe the decision has more to do with ego.) :)

G.

erikals
12-06-2010, 04:17 PM
...maybe use mocap as reference? (in some cases...)

 

jasonwestmas
12-06-2010, 04:24 PM
...maybe use mocap as reference? (in some cases...)

 

You're a genious, that's exactly what I was thinking ;) Of course you may need an app that animates with layers on top of the mocap.

Greenlaw
12-06-2010, 07:31 PM
...maybe use mocap as reference? (in some cases...)
Funny you should mention that. For RVJ, I didn't draw a traditional storyboard; instead, we acted out the whole thing against a green screen and did slap-comps of the performances over handrawn backgrounds. This video was used as visual reference (i.e., not 'roto-capture') for the animation because, even though we wanted the acting to be broad and cartoony, we also wanted to introduce a certain naturalism in the motions.

This was done maybe five years ago, so it was actually long before I even imagined I could be doing my own mocap. But in a sense, we were 'capturing' our performance.

G.

erikals
12-07-2010, 08:04 AM
another idea is to use video references from cartoons...
then optionally make a pose or CA library

 

BoScheurer
12-08-2010, 02:10 AM
I would like to know how animating and rigging is in messiah and how animating and rigging is in softimage.
I am also talking about the Ice kinematics here.
For what I have heard messiah is a bit tricky to get your head around, i know little about Ice kinematics, but from what i have seen it seems to be the new way of rigging.
Anyone that have tried using both?

geothefaust
12-09-2010, 01:48 AM
I would like to know how animating and rigging is in messiah and how animating and rigging is in softimage.
I am also talking about the Ice kinematics here.
For what I have heard messiah is a bit tricky to get your head around, i know little about Ice kinematics, but from what i have seen it seems to be the new way of rigging.
Anyone that have tried using both?

Rigging and animating in Messiah is really easy. I had no problems learning it. It's especially easy if you're coming from Lightwave, the rampup time is cut down quite bit thanks to their similarities.

As for rigging in XSI, I haven't done it in a while now, but to be honest I never used a version of it with ICE. Last version I touched more recently was v5.


EDIT: I should point out that I am still for the most part learning CA, but after having switched to Messiah from LW, I've expedited the process drastically. Animating such things in LW is, well, more difficult than it should be.

jasonwestmas
12-09-2010, 09:16 AM
The Autorigging in XSI is very nice and customizable but it is nothing like rigging in Lightwave classic. XSI is a great example of a program that will let you remain simple in your setups and still get good results. Then if you need to, you can dive even deeper into the application and get even greater results. One of the best advantages it has is that you can pull out certain mechanisms and replace them with something else that works better in your rig or model deformations. I never have the fear of breaking anything because your setup can be easily fixed. BUT in order to fix stuff you do have to study on how your scene is setup, it's definitely not a program that knows what you want to fix by any means but at least it doesn't fall over like a row of dominos when one thing goes wrong.

Larry_g1s
12-09-2010, 10:03 AM
Sketch is a nice little feature for animation. Nice rendering, hair, instancing...MS5 is turning out to be a more complete package huh.

side note: jasonwestmas, one of my fav. quotes in your sig (Einstein).

P.s. Good to see ya Javis.

jasonwestmas
12-09-2010, 10:23 AM
side note: jasonwestmas, one of my fav. quotes in your sig (Einstein).

haha, yeah it's an oldie but goodie. :)

geothefaust
12-09-2010, 04:13 PM
Sketch is a nice little feature for animation. Nice rendering, hair, instancing...MS5 is turning out to be a more complete package huh.


It sure is. Hard to resist using it now, it's getting really fun now that the CA is starting to flow for me. :) I love the rigging tools in it, too. So much easier and better than LW, too bad we didn't both have Messiah for that job last year!



P.s. Good to see ya Javis.

Yeah you too man! Hardly ever come to this forum any more...

I'm on skype a little more regularly now. I'll send you an IM.

erikals
12-09-2010, 10:34 PM
sketch?
hm, have a link?...

jasonwestmas
12-09-2010, 10:40 PM
Here you goooo!

http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/community.html

geothefaust
12-09-2010, 11:24 PM
DR is pretty cool. Here is the new page with all of the video links, too.

http://setuptab.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=8

erikals
12-09-2010, 11:37 PM
http://setuptab.com/index.php?topic=2190.0

cool, very nice :]

Larry_g1s
12-10-2010, 10:32 AM
So much easier and better than LW, too bad we didn't both have Messiah for that job last year!No joke! That job almost killed me! Funny thing...it was this same time last year. lol

So if I understand it correctly, Messiah is pretty much something like LW, but with out the modeling tools right? It has rigging, animation, rendering, instancing, hair, etc. Has anyone used it as part of their pipeline for these areas on a decent basis? Just wondering what advantageous it might have over Layout.

Nicolas Jordan
12-10-2010, 10:41 AM
No joke! That job almost killed me! Funny thing...it was this same time last year. lol

So if I understand it correctly, Messiah is pretty much something like LW, but with out the modeling tools right? It has rigging, animation, rendering, instancing, hair, etc. Has anyone used it as part of their pipeline for these areas on a decent basis? Just wondering what advantageous it might have over Layout.

Ya, for the most part it is a decent alternative to Layout if you get the Pro version.

Larry_g1s
12-10-2010, 11:05 AM
Ya, for the most part it is a decent alternative to Layout if you get the Pro version.Production wise can it hang as a whole? Has it been battle tested as much?

Nicolas Jordan
12-10-2010, 12:31 PM
Production wise can it hang as a whole? Has it been battle tested as much?

I think most people will agree that it's proven itself to be production ready over the years being used extensively on films like Jimmy Neutron the movie and Lion of Juda http://www.lionofjudahthemovie.com/ as well as many others.

Maybe someone here can explain how messiah originated but as I understand it was developed as an in house tool to make up for the short comings of Lightwaves character rigging and animation toolset at the time which I believe would have been back in the days of Lightwave 5.6 or maybe even before. It's come a long way from being just the plugin for Layout that it was originally.

The Dommo
12-11-2010, 01:10 PM
Check out Boris's work - he uses Messiah for all character work...
http://www.borisgoreta.com/

Ulven
12-14-2010, 06:51 PM
*toot our own horn mode on*
We also do most of our character work in messiah at darkside. As per for instance the iron maiden music video: http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110551
*horn tooting off*
It's quite good to work with though, a good mix between complexity when needed and simplicity when not.

jasonwestmas
12-14-2010, 06:58 PM
It's quite good to work with though, a good mix between complexity when needed and simplicity when not.

Always the sign of a strong set of tools.

octopus2000
01-01-2011, 09:56 PM
what can messiah 5 do that layout can't?

is there a difference between messiah and massive3d?

geothefaust
01-01-2011, 11:57 PM
what can messiah 5 do that layout can't?



Great real time performing rigs
Easy to rig and skin
No "gotchas" in regards to rigging, everything works with everything
Every expression can be evaluated before/after IK OR motion
Decent real time soft bodies
MUCH better hair/fibers
Animating is a pleasure



Those are just a few off the top of my head. I'm sure other Messiah users will jump in.




is there a difference between messiah and massive3d?

I don't know, I've not used massive before. Asking on the Messiah forum might be a better place to ask that one.

Boris Goreta
01-02-2011, 02:34 AM
Important thing to note is that Messiah can work inside Lightwave too via plugin which you apply as a deformation to an object ( or motion if you don't need to deform object ). You can have Messiah window opened on the right side and Layout window on the left, as soon as you change animation in Messiah you can scrub Layout time and see the change, very useful when characters need to interact or be in specific positions with the elements done in Layout. I'm not a fan of mdd baking because it is too messy. I do it only if I must ( network rendering ).

Julez4001
01-06-2011, 08:06 AM
I find that the features in messiah 5 is substanial than other packages upgrades, its just funny that within a month, the "lightwave" family all had updates.