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View Full Version : Throw away those DSLR's



kosmodave
11-23-2010, 02:52 PM
Anyone seen this little beauty, the Panasonic AG-AF101. Although only HD 1920*1080 It looks set to start a whole new revolution in video cameras. And at a very very reasonable price too.

Check out a review of a prototype unit here;

http://dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=246

I WANT :tongue::tongue:

Dave

realgray
11-23-2010, 03:19 PM
I found this write up to be informative

http://prolost.com/blog/2010/10/12/do-you-want-to-be-a-grown-up.html

kosmodave
11-23-2010, 03:47 PM
Yes, I guess Panasonic has started an interesting debate between DSLR fans and Video fans on which one is better. Either way, the Panasonic is a good start and I'm sure it won't be long before Sony and others join in the fun.

Let the pissing contest begin :D

Dave.

erikals
11-23-2010, 03:56 PM
nah,... 4300... too much...
i'd rather make the jump and buy a RED... or Scarlett when released...

kosmodave
11-23-2010, 04:01 PM
What's the expected price of a Scarlet? A Red I believe will set you back over 20,000 for a full setup so that is definitely a step too far for me.

Dave.

Von Polygon
11-23-2010, 04:12 PM
Hmm, looks promising. Would like to see what it does in low light, given the sensor being micro 4/3 and does AVCHD PH mode hold up.
Agree with Erikals, 4300 looks a little steep if you can get 5D MkII for 1500. It's more likely to be a completely different fruit all together rather than an alternative to cheap DSLR video solution.

gordonrobb
11-23-2010, 04:16 PM
Never mind a 5D, my 500D (T2i) cost less than 1K with two lenses, a battery pack and a loupe. Not debating that this looks like a great camera, but hardly an alternative to DSLR surely.

erikals
11-23-2010, 04:27 PM
What's the expected price of a Scarlet?

Scarlett 3K will be around 4,000...
with an adapter you can use your own lenses.

you can also use your own lenses with RED afaik with an adapter...
the price will be closer to 10,000

i like what Panasonic is doing, i just don't like the price... :l

 

Hieron
11-24-2010, 08:46 AM
What exactly does this have to do with the general DSLR?

Just because DSLR's can do video for a while, which allowed for interesting DoF options, doesn't mean DSLR's are absolete now..

realgray
11-24-2010, 10:48 AM
Check out this size chart
http://rebelsguide.com/dl/sensorSizes_06_cheatSheet.png
If you can deal with the rolling shutter, data rate, codec, moire, etc. than the 5D still rocks. I'm even notice these issues in larger productions (especially rolling shutter), but I doubt regular folks care.

Red_Oddity
11-24-2010, 12:37 PM
Not sure about the credibility of the user of the first article (not sure who the guy is, so i'll keep it civilized)
But 4/3'' is NOT the same size as a full size 35mm sensor (but, very close though.)
And a ND filter is NOT a Natural Density filter but a Neutral Density filter (a typo in i presume?)

I stopped reading half way through as i could not find any of the test images he shot where anywhere on the site, hope he posts 'm anyway.

Stu Maschwitz on the other hand really knows what he's talking about, so, reason enough to get a bit exited about this.

Red_Oddity
11-24-2010, 12:48 PM
Also, the movies i saw where a bit unfair, as they where shot with Arri/Zeiss Ultra Primes, which cost about 3 times as much as the camera body itself (last time i checked they started at 12.000 euros a pop, gorgeous glass though)

tischbein3
11-24-2010, 03:47 PM
Yes, I guess Panasonic has started an interesting debate between DSLR fans and Video fans on which one is better. Either way, the Panasonic is a good start and I'm sure it won't be long before Sony and others join in the fun.

We shouldn't forget, that Sony and others do have the dillema that they have a well established product line in this semi / pro market, so its defintive not much "fun" on their side, and they certainly will design their "answer" to this cam with that in mind.

Now, the _big_ question for me this cam brings up:
Wouldn't it be actually better, especiallly at that price point,
to choose one of the wide range of hd capable dslrs _AND_ additionally buy a good consumer / prosumer camcorder, to overcome some of the limitations, I still would have with this cam?

monovich
11-24-2010, 04:11 PM
What exactly does this have to do with the general DSLR?

Just because DSLR's can do video for a while, which allowed for interesting DoF options, doesn't mean DSLR's are absolete now..

Agreed. People are creating incredible art and films with the current crop of DSLRs. Are they somehow all broken now because this new camera comes along? Are they somehow less able to make a great moving image?

The price point of a video DSLR these days has put them in the hands of a whole fleet of aspiring directors, videographers, and enthusiasts who will never buy a camera at the price of this newcomer.

How about instead of throwing away DSLRs we throw away the title of this thread?

erikals
11-24-2010, 04:57 PM
the interesting thing is what the next generation DSLRs will bring.
will there be a 3K DSLR camera?

that'd be sweet... :]

T-Light
11-24-2010, 10:58 PM
erikals -

the interesting thing is what the next generation DSLRs will bring.
will there be a 3K DSLR camera?

that'd be sweet... :]
Thing is...There is :D :thumbsup:
And it's cheaper than the 5D mkII, even Cheaper than the 7D.
The Canon 550D has a mode not available on the more expensive DSLR's, it has a natural crop option of 1920x1080p. I'm guessing this solves some of the points raised in the initial review although I can't be certain (I don't have one). Unfortunately, it achieves this by effectively zooming in on the centre of the image so You'll need to shoot ultrawide. On the plus side, you can pick up a 550D + 35mm f1.4 prime for around the 1000 mark. Considering the image quality of the 550D is the same as the 7D it seems a pretty good all rounder.

kosmodave
11-24-2010, 11:23 PM
What exactly does this have to do with the general DSLR?

Just because DSLR's can do video for a while, which allowed for interesting DoF options, doesn't mean DSLR's are absolete now..

Ah! good point, my bad - I should have been more careful in my wording when I posted this thread, never intended to suggest DSLRs were rubbish and no good etc, was just excited about the new Panasonic and just wanted to here comments on this new beast. ( won't be getting rid of my DSLR either ).
But the things that really interest me with this new Panasonic is the massive workflow improvement over DSLR and other high end SS card storage video cameras, so basically being able to have all the ease of use when recording sound, being able to use just about any medium to record onto, no record time limitations before over heating etc. Plus, with the right adapter ( which I am sure there will be more of ) you can use your current lenses.
Anyway, once the other manufacturers respond, it will be happy times for all of us would be film makers:)

Dave

erikals
11-24-2010, 11:55 PM
erikals -

...Unfortunately, it achieves this by effectively zooming in on the centre of the image so You'll need to shoot ultrawide.

...are you sure it works?
...i couldn't find any actual clips (youtube / vimeo) on it...

erikals
11-25-2010, 12:24 AM
Sony A55 hack, interesting... true or BS?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShTy7qxMHK0

T-Light
11-25-2010, 02:04 AM
ericals.-

...are you sure it works?
...i couldn't find any actual clips (youtube / vimeo) on it...
Sorry old man, I may have got this wrong. Just read a review on Camera Labs and it looks like the crop feature is for 640x480 only. I'm sure I've heard reviewers comment on the feature being full Hi-Def.
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_EOS_550D_Rebel_T2i/movie_mode.shtml
There's a video of it in action about three quarters of the way down the page.

On an entirely different note, I've yet to see pixelated footage coming out of a 7D. The original reviewer makes a lot of remarks regarding the 5D MkII, maybe the larger chip of the 5D doesn't make as good a movie tool as the 7D / 550D? I keep seeing videos like this and I'm forever astonished at what the 7D is capable of.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHO_IeAD-6k
Love this one, just thought I'd throw it in, low light capability and a lack of rolling shutter (although He is using a glidecam I think).
http://vimeo.com/13642684

Silkrooster
11-26-2010, 11:12 PM
I honestly believe that the new dslr's with video are going to help push the video market past 1080HD. As soon as they solve the bandwidth and issues with the sensor (I heard something about over heating or what ever) Then we can get by the mediocre res upgrade that we received. Most dslr's are well beyond 10 megapixel but seam to be limited to 6 frames per second at that resolution. I would love to see the day when tv's are capable of displaying 3 or 4 megapixels.
Anyway, I am kind off topic, so...

erikals
11-27-2010, 08:08 AM
that's what i'm waiting for too Silkrooster :]

Red_Oddity
11-27-2010, 04:13 PM
I keep seeing videos like this and I'm forever astonished at what the 7D is capable of.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHO_IeAD-6k


Unfortunately according to the DOP of that project, most of that was shot with a XL H1s and a Vision Research Phantom HD. Only for some cut away shots did they use the 7D.


Love this one, just thought I'd throw it in, low light capability and a lack of rolling shutter (although He is using a glidecam I think).
http://vimeo.com/13642684
Well, the rolling shutter is still pretty apparent, the low light capabilities are remarkable though.


Still, we're arguing over a nice bonus feature on a device never originally designed for filming moving pictures.

erikals
11-27-2010, 04:47 PM
i'm sure someone will have a 3K camera out soon, but then again we'll have to wait for a 3D version of it too...

i hear the RED folks are working on a 3D camera by the way...

T-Light
11-27-2010, 08:32 PM
Red_Oddity -

Unfortunately according to the DOP of that project, most of that was shot with a XL H1s and a Vision Research Phantom HD
That's annoying, why on earth do they do that?

Here's some more 7D favourites, to the best of my knowledge these are genuine full 7D examples, either that, or the authors are all lying b******s :D :thumbsup:

Artsy type movie with a 70's feel, great 'film' look.
http://vimeo.com/8470535

The infamous Philip Bloom with 'Dublin's People'
http://vimeo.com/6475938

Going down the range, here's the official footage from Canon for the 550D.
Extremely good for a 600 camera. (Available in full 1080p)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f7l-Z4NF70

Red_Oddity
11-28-2010, 01:52 PM
Red_Oddity -

That's annoying, why on earth do they do that?

Here's some more 7D favourites, to the best of my knowledge these are genuine full 7D examples, either that, or the authors are all lying b******s :D :thumbsup:

Artsy type movie with a 70's feel, great 'film' look.
http://vimeo.com/8470535

The infamous Philip Bloom with 'Dublin's People'
http://vimeo.com/6475938

Going down the range, here's the official footage from Canon for the 550D.
Extremely good for a 600 camera. (Available in full 1080p)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f7l-Z4NF70

Yeah, Philip has a knack for shooting nice stuff with DSLRs, he build a really nice rig with his 7D (helps he's a talented bloke as well :) )