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View Full Version : Teetering on the edge of upgrading to 10....



magoo
10-29-2010, 07:43 PM
.. what will get me over is news that keyframing has been made easier and more interactive, and that bones have become a bit more stable and intuitive to use?

I really like the new features by the way, just looking for that nudge to get me over the line.

nickdigital
10-29-2010, 07:52 PM
What about keyframing do you feel needs improvement?

If you buy into 10 you'll get the Creature Rigging DVD. But I guess that's a chicken-egg situation. You're wanting to see improvements in rigging BEFORE buying into 10 but if you buy into 10 NOW you'll see what Lino has been able to pull off with the tools.

You could check out RHiggIt to see what RebelHill has been able to do with the current 9 tools. It's pretty impressive.

BigHache
10-29-2010, 08:20 PM
Well if LW is a part of your pipeline, you'll probably want to upgrade eventually anyway. Saving money before final release is kinda nice, and the locked price as long as you stay current with upgrades can't hurt either.

The linear workflow video is kinda sweet and is something I could have used on a project two days ago.

MovieMaker1972
10-30-2010, 12:40 AM
Well if LW is a part of your pipeline, you'll probably want to upgrade eventually anyway. Saving money before final release is kinda nice, and the locked price as long as you stay current with upgrades can't hurt either.

The linear workflow video is kinda sweet and is something I could have used on a project two days ago.

Thats what put me over the edge. As a first time buyer it was a $500 savings or so.

magoo
10-30-2010, 01:58 AM
What about keyframing do you feel needs improvement?

If you buy into 10 you'll get the Creature Rigging DVD. But I guess that's a chicken-egg situation. You're wanting to see improvements in rigging BEFORE buying into 10 but if you buy into 10 NOW you'll see what Lino has been able to pull off with the tools.

You could check out RHiggIt to see what RebelHill has been able to do with the current 9 tools. It's pretty impressive.

Thanks!

The keyframing in 9.6 feels clunky compared to Max, which I use at work.
Specifically the ability to easily filter XYZ etc. on the fly, dragging keyframes about without needing to pop up an extra time line.
Max also allows curve editing in the time line at the bottom of the screen in its expanded version.
Messiah had a similar approach to direct access curves and keys.

I'd be happy for someone to tell me 9.6 does these things now! I've used LW since v4, though much less so in recent years, so my experience with the newer versions is limited.

My interest is character animation, that can be done *quickly* with as few layers between me and the keyframes and curves!

nickdigital
10-30-2010, 03:34 AM
It sounds like what you're describing is a dope sheet that's built into the main window.

LW does have a dope sheet, but it's in the scene editor.

Aside from the small mini-dope sheet that you can expand off the main timeline I don't believe LW currently has what you want. The mini-dope sheet off the main timeline doesn't isolate per channel.

You could work with the main window un-maximized and then have the graph editor as a floating window underneath. Have your graph editor set to "Track Item Selection" and "Filter Static Curves" and you'll only see the curves that have more than 2 keyframes. This is where you would want to isolate the channels you're keying on items.

I have Messiah and am familiar with what that app does. It is nice that the graph editor is something you can just pull and down from the main window.

LW does tend to get window happy and not being able to dock them properly to each other can be a pain. But if you setup your floating windows how you want then you should be ok. I don't work with LW, Modeler or Layout, with the main window maximized.

magoo
10-30-2010, 03:51 AM
Thanks Nick,

I guess what you've suggested is another option (arranging floating windows to suit) though I'm hoping they make an animation app friendlier for animators!
Having those options buried in separate windows is a real bugbear for me, these things need to be easily accessible.

Do you know if 10 will be any different?(or have you just described 10?)

nickdigital
10-30-2010, 04:04 AM
There are some major features being added to 10 but since you're focus is CA I don't know that any of them will directly impact you. Using VPR to animate is probably fun and neat though I don't know how practical it is as CA tools are more about fast interaction and easy tools versus real-time rendering.

To see what's new about 10 in regards to CA I would suggest watching this Siggraph presentation.
http://tv.newtek.com/player.php?recordID=60

Core would be the app to look forward to in regards to major advances in CA in Lightwave. But Core is a ways away on that front. If you use Max and Messiah you can always use those to add to your pipeline. 10 has some new tools making data exchange between different apps easier.

magoo
10-30-2010, 04:14 AM
Thanks again Nick.

I've taken a look at NT vids. They do seem to ad functionality in areas which are cool, but I was hoping to get some insider info on CA updates, or at least a more friendly interface for fast animation.(I'll re-watch the rigging vid to see if I can glean a bit more)
I'd be happy to know LW10 has a much more customizable interface.

phillydee
11-01-2010, 11:23 AM
...You could check out RHiggIt to see what RebelHill has been able to do with the current 9 tools. It's pretty impressive.

It may have been addressed above already, but RH did mention in one of his earliest videos for RHiggit-lite that it's fully usable in LW10. One of the selling points for me in buing into the Rhiggit system.

magoo
11-01-2010, 04:27 PM
It may have been addressed above already, but RH did mention in one of his earliest videos for RHiggit-lite that it's fully usable in LW10. One of the selling points for me in buing into the Rhiggit system.

I'd like to see a few advances in Character animation in LW, a setup mode would be wonderful.
I did pick up a CG mag which has a tip for filtering key types in the timeline/dopesheet.

I have managed to fall over the edge into getting a 10 upgrade too! In part it was an economic decision based on the rationale that I'd get better value for $ upgrading than striking out for a new license of something else.

So I'm hoping that there's a robust character animation discussion for CORE/LW10 on those forums as I've got a few suggestions!

GraphXs
11-02-2010, 11:59 PM
CA or the timeline most likely won't be getting any love for v10. Have you ever tried Maestro? It has a really nice track editor. I haven’t used it in a while, but it was like a NLE. And showed the key tracked for all the items under it’s UI. Made offsetting keys a breeze. One thing I didn’t like about it was the size of the window, it seemed to be locked to a specific size.

magoo
11-03-2010, 12:11 AM
CA or the timeline most likely won't be getting any love for v10. Have you ever tried Maestro? It has a really nice track editor. I havenít used it in a while, but it was like a NLE. And showed the key tracked for all the items under itís UI. Made offsetting keys a breeze. One thing I didnít like about it was the size of the window, it seemed to be locked to a specific size.

Thanks GraphXs, I haven't tried Maestro, i'll check it out.

geo_n
11-03-2010, 01:05 AM
Maestro is great. Though for lw 10 it doesnt work yet. Hopefully newtek will get around to fix it.

kopperdrake
11-30-2010, 04:20 PM
Love Maestro - hope it works with LW10, we rely on it a lot.

wesleycorgi
11-30-2010, 04:27 PM
It may have been addressed above already, but RH did mention in one of his earliest videos for RHiggit-lite that it's fully usable in LW10. One of the selling points for me in buing into the Rhiggit system.

I picked up RHiggit-lite last week and it works without problems with LW10 (so far). It's quite ingenious of how it auto rigs. Having not used any other tools, I was quite pleased with how it functions.

dwburman
12-02-2010, 01:07 AM
You can switch to channel mode in the dope track to see the separate channels, but you only see the keys for the mode you're in (move, rotate, scale).

LW 10 does have mini-sliders and envelope buttons (opens the graph editor) next to the numeric input channels in the lower left corner of Layout. It's a small but nice workflow enhancement.

RebelHill
12-02-2010, 09:49 AM
there's a couple lil tweaks here n there, but really nothing new or different from 9.6 in LW10 as regards CA

geothefaust
12-03-2010, 12:35 PM
Personally I would just pick up Messiah. Version 5 just came out (Just yesterday in fact), and has none of the niggling little issues you just described about LW, in fact, that's why I moved to Messiah too. ;)

wesleycorgi
12-03-2010, 02:20 PM
Personally I would just pick up Messiah. Version 5 just came out (Just yesterday in fact), and has none of the niggling little issues you just described about LW, in fact, that's why I moved to Messiah too. ;)

I was taking a look at Messiah yesterday --- that is, I tried. If anyone thinks that LW for Mac is wanting, Messiah for Mac is a train wreck! More accurately, I guess their demo is a train wreck. I also found that their forums weren't that helpful to newbies (or least Mac users).

geothefaust
12-03-2010, 11:40 PM
Ah yes, for mac I hear differentiating stories. Luckily I'm on Windows!